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J Bolton Unloads

We meddled in the affairs of far too many countries in the 50s/60s and 70s and even in the 80s.

The late 40s and 70s and into the 80s was a preoccupation with stopping communism and I believe John Foster Dulles came up with the phrase Domino Theory in the Eisenhower administration--as applied to indochina. The theory made sense--the soviet/communist regime from the 1918 onward more or less demanded continual revolution and that revolution must spread to different areas. I get the logic behind it. My guess is that the meddling and removing of world leaders by the US probably doesn't happen so much anymore. When did our meddling, we thought it would totally normal to work with Pinochet. When we brought back in the shaw, that was a disaster and look at what we reaped there..... Working with dictators like Saddam Hussein has been a long standing tradition because it served our purposes. Until it didn't.

It is a different world. Economies are so integrated right now that in all likelihood communism like a soviet regime isn't coming back. Alliances still matter; relationships still matter. The tanking of Europe's economy is going to have terrible effects here. China shitting the bed is going to have terrible consequences here. I'm not sure I understand our current administration's end game until you assume that this Administration wants to have ownership and control of a much larger area and is willing to accept Russia having a larger sphere of influence that might go back to pre fall soviet union.

I have no idea why such a hatred for Europe either. The EU has a massive economy; they send trillions of dollars US goods and services; we get taxes of off their products sold here; we generally get the best and brightest minds from Europe working for US companies. Europe gave us the Premier League and La Liga for crying out loud...... Maybe I'm biased. One set of grandparents came from Belgium and the other came from England.
The status quo isn't working for enough Americans. For first time in U.S. history a generation is more likely to be worse off than their parents. There use to be 10,000 people dying a year from ODs, in 2000, that number is now over 100k. A couple podcasts of you want a better idea of their reasoning. You don't have to agree with it, but they've been telegraphing what they're trying to do.





 
The status quo isn't working for enough Americans. For first time in U.S. history a generation is more likely to be worse off than their parents. There use to be 10,000 people dying a year from ODs, in 2000, that number is now over 100k. A couple podcasts of you want a better idea of their reasoning. You don't have to agree with it, but they've been telegraphing what they're trying to do.





None of that has any relevance to the OP, which was the discussion of working with world leaders who might be unsavory, etc. (I did watch the Bessert one a few days back --wasn't overly impressed by his selective figures for spending as a percentage of GDP. He claimed "Biden blew it out of the water". Except he didn't. Donald did: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYONGDA188S. Spending as a % of GDP was over 30%. There's a transistory period of spikes (WW2) and normally os spending as a % of GDP (17-18%).

Again, the original premises was about foreign diplomacy, which to feels very much like Peter Thiel's dopey "destruction of the ancien regime" babblespeak combined with Curtis Yarvin's bizarro world theories.

What happened to the republican muse Milton Friedman, a guy I agree with nearly always? My faux namesake had this to say about trade balances:

"In the international trade area, the language is almost always about how we must export, and what’s really good is an industry that produces exports, and if we buy from abroad and import, that’s bad. But surely that’s upside-down. What we send abroad, we can’t eat, we can’t wear, we can’t use for our houses. The goods and services we send abroad, are goods and services not available to us. On the other hand, the goods and services we import, they provide us with TV sets we can watch, with automobiles we can drive, with all sorts of nice things for us to use.

The gain from foreign trade is what we import. What we export is a cost of getting those imports. And the proper objective for a nation as Adam Smith put it, is to arrange things so that we get as large a volume of imports as possible, for as small a volume of exports as possible.

This carries over to the terminology we use. When people talk about a favorable balance of trade, what is that term taken to mean? It’s taken to mean that we export more than we import. But from the point of our well-being, that’s an unfavorable balance. That means we’re sending out more goods and getting fewer in. Each of you in your private household would know better than that. You don’t regard it as a favorable balance when you have to send out more goods to get fewer coming in. It’s favorable when you can get more by sending out less"

This adminstration's upside down view of the world is going to cause serious problems.
 
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The status quo isn't working for enough Americans. For first time in U.S. history a generation is more likely to be worse off than their parents. There use to be 10,000 people dying a year from ODs, in 2000, that number is now over 100k. A couple podcasts of you want a better idea of their reasoning. You don't have to agree with it, but they've been telegraphing what they're trying to do.






I don't agree with it. MAGA philosophy sucks.

And it's not like this is new shit. Pat Buchanan ran on this platform for years. It sucked then and it still sucks now.
 
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I don't agree with it. MAGA philosophy sucks.

And it's not like this is new shit. Pat Buchanan ran on this platform for years. It sucked then and it still sucks now.
The numbers are different now though. Our debt to GDP is ridiculous. Demographics are worse. We're running 7-8% deficits. Break average wages down to a percentage of GDP and all the important shit costs significantly more.

You use to have 90% of the population that were going to be better off than their parents. For people under 30 it's now less the 50% for the 1st time ever. 10,000 people use to die annual from ODs. It's over 100k now.

We've exhausted all the tailwinds. All the women now work. People have stopped having children and there aren't another billion poor Chinese to ship our factories to (the ones we still have). You can't be the world's reserve currency forever. At some point you have to go to a neutral reserve asset if you want to be a functioning society.
 
I don't agree with it. MAGA philosophy sucks.

And it's not like this is new shit. Pat Buchanan ran on this platform for years. It sucked then and it still sucks now.
I'll also add, MAGA exists because the current setup hasn't worked for too many Americans. Also, the alternative is Bernie Sanders.
 
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The numbers are different now though. Our debt to GDP is ridiculous. Demographics are worse. We're running 7-8% deficits. Break average wages down to a percentage of GDP and all the important shit costs significantly more.

You use to have 90% of the population that were going to be better off than their parents. For people under 30 it's now less the 50% for the 1st time ever. 10,000 people use to die annual from ODs. It's over 100k now.

We've exhausted all the tailwinds. All the women now work. People have stopped having children and there aren't another billion poor Chinese to ship our factories to (the ones we still have). You can't be the world's reserve currency forever. At some point you have to go to a neutral reserve asset if you want to be a functioning society.

People do not like the new economy. This came up years ago here in regards to WV, training classes sat empty because they wanted to mine coal, not other jobs. We are never going to need masses of coal miners again. If not green it will be nuclear, but one will keep coal from being what it once was.

Meanwhile really good paying jobs, jobs we desperately want Americans in, cannot be filled by Americans:

  • Foreign-born workers accounted for 19% of all U.S. STEM workers and 43% of scientists and engineers with doctorate degrees in 2021, the latest year of data in the report.
  • About 58% of doctorate-level computer and mathematical scientists in the country's workforce — who drive the development of artificial intelligence, computing and other technologies deemed critical by the U.S. government — were born outside the U.S.,
  • according to the report.

And now since Florida is discovering that they need workers without illegal aliens, they are looking at allowing 14 year olds to work overnight on school nights without breaks.

As to drugs, how does the government force people to become drug addicts? The problem there is fentanyl, it is very deadly in very low doses. At least among teens, addiction is still below pre-pandemic levels but deaths have been going up.

 
I'll also add, MAGA exists because the current setup hasn't worked for too many Americans. Also, the alternative is Bernie Sanders.

SC, just Bernie Sanders?

You forgot AOC and George Soros.

The other guys focus on MTG .

Why do we always go to the extremes and wonder why we can't get along as in the days of reaching a consensus?
 
SC, just Bernie Sanders?

You forgot AOC and George Soros.

The other guys focus on MTG .

Why do we always go to the extremes and wonder why we can't get along as in the days of reaching a consensus?
Ok, run back moderate Biden then. It was still terrible for 2/3rds of the populace.
 
SC, just Bernie Sanders?

You forgot AOC and George Soros.

The other guys focus on MTG .

Why do we always go to the extremes and wonder why we can't get along as in the days of reaching a consensus?
I could be wrong, but I think that even most MAGA Republicans thing MTG is a clown. At least I'd hope that they'd recognize an actual clown when they see one.
 
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I never discuss this issue, because there is no way to know for sure. Bolton's denial was "I didn't hear him say it, but it could have been later". Mark Kelly said he heard trump say it. Several people said they never heard Trump say it. I have no idea one way or the next. Either people are lying or they misheard and are wrong, or they didn't hear it because they weren't there. Zero way for us to know, which is why I don't waste my time on it becasue all the cast of characters has an incentive to lie --one way or the next.
I think anyone who is honest can say Trump doesn't have a history of disparaging veterans. Yes, he's disparaged John McCain and probably some others on a personal level. But for veterans in general, no.

Bolton was supposedly in the room.

What, exactly, did Kelly say Trump said. Was it ' he disparaged veterans' or did he say 'they were all suckers'. What was the quote exactly? Because I've never heard a quote - just that he was putting veterans down, which I find hard to believe. I don't find it hard to believe Kelly took a part of a conversation and twisted it to make it appear Trump said something.

You're right - zero way for us to know. But we can take Trump's history with veterans and their endorsement of him and the politics of those who claim he said it.
 
You can disagree with Bolton's policy positions and still give him credit for not sucking Trump's ass. Same for the Cheaneys and the rest. It's too bad there aren't more of them.
Sucking Trump's ass? No, the Cheneys are actively working against him.

They should STFU, like W.
 
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Some had to give free mustache rides to Pelosi
gag throw up GIF
 
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We meddled in the affairs of far too many countries in the 50s/60s and 70s and even in the 80s.

The late 40s and 70s and into the 80s was a preoccupation with stopping communism and I believe John Foster Dulles came up with the phrase Domino Theory in the Eisenhower administration--as applied to indochina. The theory made sense--the soviet/communist regime from the 1918 onward more or less demanded continual revolution and that revolution must spread to different areas. I get the logic behind it. My guess is that the meddling and removing of world leaders by the US probably doesn't happen so much anymore. When did our meddling, we thought it would totally normal to work with Pinochet. When we brought back in the shaw, that was a disaster and look at what we reaped there..... Working with dictators like Saddam Hussein has been a long standing tradition because it served our purposes. Until it didn't.

It is a different world. Economies are so integrated right now that in all likelihood communism like a soviet regime isn't coming back. Alliances still matter; relationships still matter. The tanking of Europe's economy is going to have terrible effects here. China shitting the bed is going to have terrible consequences here. I'm not sure I understand our current administration's end game until you assume that this Administration wants to have ownership and control of a much larger area and is willing to accept Russia having a larger sphere of influence that might go back to pre fall soviet union.

I have no idea why such a hatred for Europe either. The EU has a massive economy; they send trillions of dollars US goods and services; we get taxes of off their products sold here; we generally get the best and brightest minds from Europe working for US companies. Europe gave us the Premier League and La Liga for crying out loud...... Maybe I'm biased. One set of grandparents came from Belgium and the other came from England.
I don't have 'hate' for Europe. I have several Euro friends and I go there whenever I can. I love the culture and totally am into it.

But it does irk me their opinion of the US is formed by watching CNN International, which is totally skewed Left. Every Republican is dumb and the next thing to Hitler. There is no criticism of Democrats. I've actually had a couple friends criticize ME for voting for Trump (also had a Swiss friend who secretly tells me he's glad Trump is President).

And, let's face it, they like to throw their social programs in our faces while spending the minimal amount for their own security. That's changing, of course, which is where I think a lot of the hysteria is coming from.

I do love watching futbol and rugby, particularly when one of the countries are playing another Euro country. I, of course, play the instigator and trash talking to whever team is losing, because I rarely care one way or the other.
 
We meddled in the affairs of far too many countries in the 50s/60s and 70s and even in the 80s.

The late 40s and 70s and into the 80s was a preoccupation with stopping communism and I believe John Foster Dulles came up with the phrase Domino Theory in the Eisenhower administration--as applied to indochina. The theory made sense--the soviet/communist regime from the 1918 onward more or less demanded continual revolution and that revolution must spread to different areas. I get the logic behind it. My guess is that the meddling and removing of world leaders by the US probably doesn't happen so much anymore. When did our meddling, we thought it would totally normal to work with Pinochet. When we brought back in the shaw, that was a disaster and look at what we reaped there..... Working with dictators like Saddam Hussein has been a long standing tradition because it served our purposes. Until it didn't.

It is a different world. Economies are so integrated right now that in all likelihood communism like a soviet regime isn't coming back. Alliances still matter; relationships still matter. The tanking of Europe's economy is going to have terrible effects here. China shitting the bed is going to have terrible consequences here. I'm not sure I understand our current administration's end game until you assume that this Administration wants to have ownership and control of a much larger area and is willing to accept Russia having a larger sphere of influence that might go back to pre fall soviet union.

I have no idea why such a hatred for Europe either. The EU has a massive economy; they send trillions of dollars US goods and services; we get taxes of off their products sold here; we generally get the best and brightest minds from Europe working for US companies. Europe gave us the Premier League and La Liga for crying out loud...... Maybe I'm biased. One set of grandparents came from Belgium and the other came from England.
I don't have 'hate' for Europe. I have several Euro friends and I go there whenever I can. I love the culture and totally am into it.

But it does irk me their opinion of the US is formed by watching CNN International, which is totally skewed Left. Every Republican is dumb and the next thing to Hitler. There is no criticism of Democrats. I've actually had a couple friends criticize ME for voting for Trump (also had a Swiss friend who secretly tells me he's glad Trump is President).

And, let's face it, they like to throw their social programs in our faces while spending the minimal amount for their own security. That's changing, of course, which is where I think a lot of the hysteria is coming from.

I do love watching futbol and rugby, particularly when one of the countries are playing another Euro country. I, of course, play the instigator and trash talking to whever team is losing, because I rarely care one way or the other.
 
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