IU denies Patrick a Pro Day spot
- Thread starter snowling
- Start date
Camion Patrick story is similar to that of hundreds of athletes across the country:
There is a lot of promise and almost a folklore about "what they are going to do" or "wait till you see this guy" and it simply never materializes. They simply have bad luck or are prone to injury. That's why only like 2% of college football players make the NFL. IU is simply observing its policy here. If the guy is good enough to make the NFL, he'll find a way to work out for scouts
There are hundreds of guys in the college ranks who have gone through the same thing. Best of luck to him. I don't feel like IU denied the guy his chance at his dream job. If the guy wants it bad enough, he'll hustle, and hustle, and hustle himself some more and keep putting his name out there.
Felt like the headline victimized the guy by painting IU as the big, bad guy.
There is a lot of promise and almost a folklore about "what they are going to do" or "wait till you see this guy" and it simply never materializes. They simply have bad luck or are prone to injury. That's why only like 2% of college football players make the NFL. IU is simply observing its policy here. If the guy is good enough to make the NFL, he'll find a way to work out for scouts
There are hundreds of guys in the college ranks who have gone through the same thing. Best of luck to him. I don't feel like IU denied the guy his chance at his dream job. If the guy wants it bad enough, he'll hustle, and hustle, and hustle himself some more and keep putting his name out there.
Felt like the headline victimized the guy by painting IU as the big, bad guy.
Yeah I do feel for him, but he did get to remain on scholarship for his last year. He’s hardly getting screwed by IU.
They could choose to make an exception based on his circumstances . . . What a small-minded thing to do. "It's current policy."
Maybe there is more to this than we know. Just to advance a theory, maybe they thought he could have played last season but sat out to make sure he was healthy for the NFL tryout. That would be his right, but should he get the same consideration as those who played? Even if that wasn't the case at all would that be a loophole you want to open up. This all conjecture but I don't think anyone here has the information to make any judgments about the situation. I wish the best for him and hope he can catch on somewhere.
Hard to make a call on this without the full background information (in my opinion).
Looking thru a proverbial keyhole, my "guess" is that this decision seems fairly common sense from the Athletic Departments point of view.
I mean, from their point of view, if a guy has taken the option of the years remaining scholarship money due to injury they have to figure that A) they (the Athletic Department) have gone the extra mile to treat the student/athlete more then fairly, and B) once a guy has been declared a "medical" then they may well have to look to their own liability issues if the guy or girl is allowed to return to some school sanctioned official athletic event and were somehow re-injured...
Looking thru a proverbial keyhole, my "guess" is that this decision seems fairly common sense from the Athletic Departments point of view.
I mean, from their point of view, if a guy has taken the option of the years remaining scholarship money due to injury they have to figure that A) they (the Athletic Department) have gone the extra mile to treat the student/athlete more then fairly, and B) once a guy has been declared a "medical" then they may well have to look to their own liability issues if the guy or girl is allowed to return to some school sanctioned official athletic event and were somehow re-injured...
Now you are talking a different animal. I don't agree with that decision but he didn't leave the team and I don't think there would have been a bowl game if he had not played prior. The difference is that Patrick left the team before the season. He did not stay and rehab and try to come back. He took the medical hardship and that is a decision that he has to now live with.
Certainly not exactly the same, but both involved injuries and a degree of player choice. Small minded of IU to not permit Patrick to participate, don’t you think?
No, I don't think it is small minded. If you leave the team you should forfeit the advantages that come with being a part of the team. He was plagued with injuries and that is a shame but I dont think he was forced off the team. Howard made the decision if he was healthy enough to play to not play in the bowl, he did not leave the team and was still a part of the team.
I don't agree with it but that is the way it is in all of college football right now. He was injured and there may have been some worry about re-agrivating and missing the combine. I understand it even if I don't agree with it. In Patrick's case it would be like leaving a company right after New Years and then showing up in December and asking for your Christmas bonus. I am not trying to paint him as a villain or anything but that is just the way it worked out.
I don’t think Howard is a villain or a bad guy in any way. IU decided to let him participate in their Pro Day, as they do for kids from other schools, by the way. Not allowing Patrick to participate, after his effort and dedication to the program, is really small minded.
I'd like to see IU always take the high road ... that said, we are likely not getting the full story ... but with the facts we do have it does make IU out to be the bad guy ... not like it would cost them anything more then time.
I hope Patrick goes on to kill it in the NFL, can only help the IU image.
I hope Patrick goes on to kill it in the NFL, can only help the IU image.
Right move by IU and we are not the bad guy. A medical disqualification prohibits activity. Pro day = activity. If the kid were to get injured at pro-day IU would have legal issues. Can't take the risk.
It's not the movie ending for the kid many would like but it's the right move by IU.
Go Hoosiers!
It's not the movie ending for the kid many would like but it's the right move by IU.
Go Hoosiers!
That's the kind of info that I was talking about ... a reasonable explanation why IU has to do what it's doing. Still sucks for the kid. Again I hope he kills it.
I smell NCAA.
I guarantee the lawyers who investigated the medical issues and drafted the Wilson settlement could prolly draft an effective waiver.
But ... I bet at the bottom of the worry is some NCAA reg about kids who take the medical waiver route. You know, stuff that “helps” student-athletes pursue their goals.
Just a guess..
If any participation violates IU policy, would assume Patrick is forbidden from working out in any IU facility. If so, I wonder if they verify the status of non-IU kids who workout there. Guessing they don’t, based on what I know of the situation.
Some folks with limited experience or understanding are going to struggle with the decision, but it was the correct one given the bigger picture. He will still do well.
It's IU's decision solely based on a rigid protocol. Some folks who aren't in any way familiar with the athletic department will defend it, but it's really just a matter of denying the kid an opportunity, which is unfortunate.
I don't pretend to be an expert, but for what little it is worth, I agree 100% with the above quote.
IU will take in a cool 100 million dollars next year, and here's a kid who can't show his potential to the pros unless he figures out a way to do it on his own.
Unfortunate is an understatement in my mind.
It’s possible for two things to be true. In this case it may be a stupid policy, and at the same time you may be 100% correct. I think you’re correct in terms of some guys have hustled, and grinded, and found a way in an unconventional manner. If Camion somehow manages to do that, there’s no doubt he’ll be a mentally stronger young man (along with the other things he’s been through). I also agree that he isn’t a victim. At the end of the day he’s a man, trying to play a brutal sport for a living. So there’s no time to be a victim if he’s really pursuing this (which I believe he is).
It’s also possible that while all of that is true, it’s a dumb policy. Precedent was set with Willis imho. Tevin Coleman and Latimer were obviously in different positions (didn’t have career ending injuries) but were coming off of surgery. The risk of them being hurt running after lower body injuries was likely even higher than Patrick’s risk at this point. It is a policy that leaves no room for nuance, and doesn’t judge this situation on its own unique merits. To me that’s systematic, lazy, and ridicolous. I think that it’s possible that what you said could be 100% right (I tend to agree), he is not a victim, and it’s possible at the same time that this is a bad policy and really should be judged in a more nuanced way from player to player.
My issue is there should be (and can be in many instances) a waiver process. Now, I’d imagine that IU doesn’t want to take the time of drafting such a waiver (which they have the right to not want to do obviously). It seems as if they could however do such a waiver, which is why I think it’s a rigid situation that has no nuance attached to it. He’s essentially a professional athlete (no more eligibility). He’s doing this event to get paid. He has signed with an agent. Example: Terrell Owens playing in the super bowl in 05’ while not being cleared to play by a medical doctor. At that point in time Owens was able to draft up a waiver with the eagles and participate without clearance. You’d imagine that since Patrick is no longer a student athlete, he can draft such an agreement with Indiana, and assume full liability in the case of an injury. If he does a pro day at Ball State for example, I’d imagine that legally the same standard would have to occur to protect Ball State from liability.
The point is wherever Patrick chooses to workout, he’ll likely have this same issue given his injury history. And at some point someone will have to sidestep the protocol and sign what is a common sense waiver IMHO. I don’t blame IU honestly, because they can do as they choose (I err on the side of letting a school do what they want even if it’s something I don’t agree with, it’s a free country). However, if they wanted to make it happen, I feel as if they could make it happen. It would just be a pain in the rear end. But given the fact that he’s a former Hoosier, I see no issue in taking the time to work with him.
I'm rooting for Patrick finding a way to get into the league but I don't have any major problem with the University saying no on Pro Day.
There may be friction between Patrick and the AD and/or the staff that we're completely unaware of. If that's the case, they're the ones making the call...
With the hype that he got while he was here I'm sure that they'll be some NFL scouts on hand wherever he works out. Those guys don't miss much these days...
In all fairness, the kid was declared a medical hardship and retained his scholarship. He returned home, was embroiled in a murder rap, got that thrown out, was suspended from the team (he still retained his scholarship?) and was to return to finish out one semester to graduate but stayed out of school and at home. If he had returned to school to finish it out, he may have been granted an exception but to suddenly reappear for a pro day, not sure how the school is supposed to address that? Unfortunate but he opted not to return to school.
I think that the school could “find out” about his situation if they really desired to go down that path. However, it would be time/effort consuming. It appears as if someone told him that he could participate. Between that time and now, the legal aspects could have been explored. Again, with the simple solution being a liability waiver. Even with him being back home, it appears as if they had enough contact with him to grant him a spot at pro day. Simmie Cobbs for example is out of school and training (I’m only comparing Simmie in regards to not being in school or in daily presence of the staff. Besides that their circumstances are vastly different). Most guys entering the draft are out of school, and don’t see their coaches again until pro day, so that appears to be normal, and still seems like something could’ve been done. So I don’t think that him not being in Bloomington is a factor because a majority of guys entering the draft are not in school. It still appears to come back to IU sticking to protocol, which is okay. Patrick is going to have to workout on his own, because I don’t see any school necessarily taking on that liability, or desiring to exert time and resources on a waiver. It’s simply not financially in anyone’s interest to have him workout on their property, so I can understand that aspect of it.
Anyone know if he was able to participate at the regional combine invitational?
I thought the NFL did away with regional combines for the 2018 offseason? I could be wrong but thought that NFL operations cancelled that for this year?
He has an NFL agent who has been trying to get individual testing in front of NFL scouts in Clinton, TN. He has actively posted dates and times available to watch Patrick run the drills in Tennessee.
I believe they just shrank it to one location for 2 days that took place last week.
They did shrink it down to 100 players. He was not invited.
How's Richard doing?
Might turn out to have been a good year to be available as a QB. A lot of teams need QB talent and your son can throw the NFL deep routes with the best of them.
If a guys not getting drafted in the top rounds I've always thought coming in as a FA might be the best deal of all. They get to pick the best fit for themselves.
Thanks for asking. He was invited to the NFL combine in Tampa last week and played in two all star events. I honestly did not know they had the smaller combine and some of the coaches at the Tampa combine were surprised he was not at the Indi combine. He has had a lot of teams set up meetings and has several workouts scheduled with teams so I guess things are goin as planned.
Your FA comment is spot on I think. Everyone wants to be considered the top pick, but the top picks often end up playing too soon, on bad teams, and have shorter careers. Look at Andrew Luck, there can’t be any question that if he had been picked up at mid draft or lower he would have had a much better career to date, now his body has taken a beating. It really is a matter of money after the first round isn’t it? And sometimes a less expensive guy stays around longer. As an FA you get to pick your situation, so if you aren’t in the first round and aren’t concerned about money, FA status is not all bad. Hell, they make 400+ so it is still pretty good pay compared to what I made out of college.
We will know more in a week or two after some of the scheduled meetings, but he has been training for two months, dropped 15lbs, is considerably quicker, and seems to be throwing better. I told his mother at the start of the year he was carrying too much weight and when he got to the QB guru they immediately started reducing body fat. It does concern me that we have coaches at IU that should have been doing the same thing, but hindsight is always easy to use to point fingers. The next three weeks are huge for him and I appreciate your asking, he needs all the support available.
Best wishes to him and your family.
Here's hoping he connects with the best opportunity for him.
Nice to see you back on the board. We haven't spoken in a while. Rich has physical skills above the norm...there is no doubt of that. But any way you look at it, to be picked up by an NFL team, he will be viewed as a project. For Rich, that could be a perfect situation if the team has solid QB coaches. Most of his issues came from how he saw the game, mental in other words. He's a smart young man...he can learn. Decision making must happen at a speed in the pros that makes the college game look like its played in waist deep mud. You must find the open receiver and hit him, at least most of the time. You must know how to react to what is happening around you, adjust, improvise. These have not been his strongest skills. But they can be learned. With his physical skills, some team will surely want to give it a try. Good QB's a very hard to find...sometimes they have to be built. The NFL know how to do that...with a time limit of course.
When it comes to intangibles...Rich is at the top of any class. He is the definition of a team player with character of granite imo. No matter what team he ends up with, there will be no better teammate on the squad. I wish him the very best of fortunes...he will make his own luck...best to you too.
I wish Richard the best but wish he had coach Ballou and Dr Rhea the pat two years as they focus on losing body fat and improving power aas we have seen already in a few months. I hope Richard can pick the right team and in a couple years be a starter that excels as he has the arm to do that. Please keep us up to date on how he is doing as many of us care about how he will do in the NFL.
If pro aspirations do not work out, Rich would be a great coach. He checks all of the boxes as a high character guy, a leader, a caring person, a communicator and a hard worker.
