Maybe those 5 Americans just aren’t real Americans because. . .
Israel under attack from Hamas
- Thread starter JamieDimonsBalls
- Start date
That's better, thought you were going soft on me.
The Israelis are in the power position here. I would view what happened at the camp earlier in the week (late last week?) as a freeing experience. No matter what they do, the majority of the world will view them as the bad guy no matter the actual truth. So the opinions of others are basically worthless. That is freeing.
Proof of life of all hostages and free the women and children. That would be my demand to even get me to show up at the table. I also would not trade live humans for bodies.
Well, it might remind people of the situation and cost him some votes, don'tcha know.
So disheartening that the Dems find paying a hooker to go away more damaging to America than our President abandoning its citizens taken hostage abroad & setting a precedent of negotiating with terrorists, even going so far as to attend protests supporting the terrorists. The press has been very effective at duping these feeble minds…
would love for all the hostages to make it home safe but ending wars is crazy business. our last president negotiated to free Taliban fighters who had killed US service people. just unimaginable but it was the right thing to do under the circumstances. in time we"ll see if this was like that.
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eh -- it's more our war than not. kinda like Ukraine. you can't send the money, the weapons, create the political cover and then claim you aren't part of it.
None of that necessitates that we should incur casualties. None of that means it’s our war. We can take sides without being participants in the war. Russia is not taking American hostages, at least not that I’m aware of.
Frankly I don’t think it was the right thing to do. I think America should have maintained a footprint in Afghanistan indefinitely.
Afghanistan would be a better place today. More than 50% of the population at the time we pulled out had been born after the U.S. invasion and were overwhelmingly western sympathetic.
Allowing a South Korea success story to finally take hold takes decades of American military presence and oversight and a lot of bumps in the road. But the world is a better place for it.
Sadly we don’t have the stomach for that anymore.
Holy shit, Farva, we find common ground again.
If we are going to maintain the Pax Americana, we will sometimes have to put the long, hard, ugly work in. That means not always cutting and running because we finally got tired of a place. Afghanistan probably needed to spend thirty years as an effective American unincorporated territory before we handed it back to the locals.
It’s effectively impossible now days. Show some dead people on Twitter, politicians that think they’re smart start crowing about military spending, imperialism and how we should hide behind our oceans. Soon enough public opinion sours. It doesn’t help that government can’t offer a clear, honest vision for the interventions. That would go a long way.
Everything has been different since they televised coffins coming back from Vietnam.
I think the reason Vietnam is looked at with so much disdain is that it was the first war where we tried to use a light touch.
We essentially played whack a mole with the Viet Kong in south Vietnam and put our hands up when they fled into North Vietnam, Cambodia or Laos. It elongated the war unnecessarily.
Don’t fight the war if you’re not willing to attack and dismantle the command and control structures in those countries. I don’t care what diplomatic complications there were to it. Don’t send troops to die if you’re not willing to do what it takes to win.
Looks like Biden done f*cked up on this one.
www.theguardian.com
Biden’s botched Gaza ceasefire deal only demonstrates his lack of influence | Julian Borger
The US president’s announcement on Friday suggested a ceasefire might be close, but Benjamin Netanyahu’s rebuke was swift and decisive
we'll agree to disagree. not sure what even more years would have accomplished if 20 wasn't enough. I think the precarious position we were always actually in was exposed for what it was when we left. the enemy was highly motivated and had time on its side.
I kinda agree with both of you. But only if it is done transparently. We need buy in from the electorate for a plan like that. And if you have buy in from an electorate that has been properly informed, you ameliorate the war fatigue from those photo ops.
Israel has no choice but to continue until Hamas is essentially destroyed. What else can they do with a terrorist run state that vows their utter destruction? What else can they do with a terrorist run state that has proven time, after time, after time that they will not live in peace?
Hamas is getting exactly what they wanted…they just didn’t expect the the extent of the Israeli resolve. Hamas doesn’t care about the Palestinian people. They don’t care about the “rules of war”. They don’t want peace. They don’t want the oft touted “two state solution”. After their miscalculation of the Israeli response the only thing they do want is a ceasefire long enough to regroup and resupply.
Israel sees Hamas as the foremost existential threat to their existence…and rightly so. If Israel stops now, Hamas will declare victory, resupply and attack again. Hamas is like a rabid dog…the only way to stop it is to kill it.
You also have to be realistic about what you can accomplish. I don't think anyone would be interested in spending a century in Afghanistan trying to teach them how to be reasonable people. Having a mix of tribal culture and Islam makes that job more difficult than it is worth.
Education of girls would have had a significant impact. But you're right - tribal culture is hard to overcome.
While the Japanese were fanatical, they are a homogenous society, which helped in their rehabilitation.
It's impressive that they can rescue anyone at all. I would think that the hostages would be held in such a fashion that, if Israeli soldiers were threatening to reach them, it would be someone's job to put a bullet in each of their heads on his way out the back door in retreat.
From what I read, they were being held in "civilian's" apartments. The Israelis came in hot:
They might not have had the chance to get one of the hardcore dead enders to the hostages in time to shoot them. On another note, the way these go down just reinforces my opinion that Gaza is just one big terror colony that is generally supportive of Hamas. If you have a hostage in your house, you deserve to get got.
Here's a link where you can go join the IDF. You talk a big game ... put it into action ... go kill those people who have hostages in their house. fwiw - To kill the children aim lower and don't lead them as much if they run...
Any of you other keyboard warriors can join too. If you can't go due to age, cowardice, obesity, bone spurs or just being completely full of shit send your sons and/or daughters in your place.
Live out your Rambo fantasy in real life.
: http://www.mahal-idf-volunteers.org/index.html
If you want to support Hamas terrorists, you can do that if you’re not gay, Jewish or Christian. Terrorist training is easier than soldier training. Bonus! If you come under attack for being a terrorist run to the nearest school or gathering of civilians for shelter.
Where do you sling grilled cheeses since Shakedown Street is defunct?
When I first heard about this today I assumed it was some bad ass special operations shit. Get in. Get out. Smoke a few bad guys. Rescue the hostages.
Potentially 100’s dead? 100’s more wounded?
Real discretion that IDF has.
I know their obligation is not to Gazan’s, it’s to their own people. But I don’t want to hear about how Israel is trying to minimize civilians casualties.
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I linked a Jerusalem Post article months ago with an IDF source saying just that: Israeli leaders have determined that a high civilian casualty rate is quite acceptable.
"Civilian"
When does a "journalist" stop being a "civilian" and start being a terrorist? This guy is the type of "civilian" that the Israelis have become comfortable killing by the 100's because these people aren't civilians at all.
All I see is a story claiming the IDF committed murder. What dots are you connecting?
During the hostage rescue they entered the apartment of this "civilian" and shot the "civilians" who just happened to have a "guest" that the whole rest of the world viewed as a hostage.
More "civilians" taking this same "guest" (hostage) on a motorcycle ride in the countryside. If the IDF had shot every one of them they too would be counted as "civilians".
Taking hostages is terrorism. Shooting terrorists is legitimate in war. You can do the math from there.
lol at the BBC and UN… crying that Israel had the audacity to rescue hostages that have been stuck in Gaza for 9 months
Got it. So they killed the people who were holding this hostage captive. Multiply that by 4 hostages and... No, that math doesn't work.
Because "journalist" (read: Hamas Propagandist) is only his side gig.
First, you are trusting the body count of the same people who brought you the "500 deaths in a hospital parking lot" lie. So that alone makes those numbers questionable. Secondly, one of the rescuers was killed during the rescue so there were apparently "civilians" in the area shooting back (because no Hamas soldiers were reported as killed....they never are) which would mean return fire. Finally, they were shuttling these hostages from house to house to try and keep them hidden. I doubt they had a high profile asset like that just sitting around at a family's residence without having other security measures sitting around. 4 hostages would be the families housing them and subsequent security in the area to try and stave a rescue. 25 people per hostage is a small amount when you account for all that
(the Israelis said they killed less than 100 people).
I understand why so many people died. But my point, which I backed up with an article that quoted IDF personnel, is still true: Israel has decided that a high civilian death rate is justified.
If it were you, I’d expect America to do the same. One Israeli life is worth far more than anything in Gaza to Israelis and the government. That’s how it should be.
This isn’t like Britney Griner. These people were taken, against their will, from their homeland.
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