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Israel under attack from Hamas

astounding? they've been led to believe Israel is the root of all their troubles. who is disputing that?
Well, I actually tend to agree with this point. This goes with hating Jews. This notion comes from Iran to a large extent. That part is on us, particularly Biden’s Iranian leniency.

The astounding part is support of the savage butchery. That is way beyond thinking Israel causes you not to have nice things.
 
no, it's the basic lack of knowledge that scares me. Israel and Palestine didn't exist for you before 10/7 and it wouldn't matter to you if it wasn't political fodder in the US now.

you thought the pro-palestine movement started with 10/7. you can't think of a single Israeli transgression. spooky stuff.
You aren’t paying attention. I said 10/7 changed everything. Until then, I kinda supported a 2 state solution. I don’t think that can be possible now for decades. The best solution now is for Gaza to be some kind of Israeli protectorate and the WB be part of Israel. Maybe both with international oversight. It will take generations of education and cultural changes to come to a peaceful time.
 
No, I don't think Israel should give Jerusalem to the Palestinians, and I never suggested they should. You asked why they couldn't agree, and I answered. Maybe you should slow the f*ck down and have a serious conversation.
Israel would not be killing Palestinians today were it not for the actions of Palestinians. When a people’s stated goal is to kill Jews & wipe them off of the face of the earth, & then they follow through on the threats, vengeance is justified. Israel owes its citizens safety no matter the cost to Palestinians. They lost, & will continue to lose until they choose peace, which neither they, or anyone else in that region have exhibited any serious intention of achieving.
 
Well, I actually tend to agree with this point. This goes with hating Jews. This notion comes from Iran to a large extent. That part is on us, particularly Biden’s Iranian leniency.

The astounding part is support of the savage butchery. That is way beyond thinking Israel causes you not to have nice things.

no, just stop. Iran is not why Palestinians hate the Jews by any meaningful extent. that ignores so much actual history. and no, Biden's policies towards Iran is not even partly the reason why Palestinians hate jews. a couple real crazy swings and misses right there.
 
no, just stop. Iran is not why Palestinians hate the Jews by any meaningful extent. that ignores so much actual history. and no, Biden's policies towards Iran is not even partly the reason why Palestinians hate jews. a couple real crazy swings and misses right there.
Iran is a substantial part of the reason Hamas exists and has the training and wherewithal to convert its hate into savagery. I also believe Iran’s stated objective of ending Israel as a Jewish state gives moral support to Palestinians and helps the hate to perpetuate itself.
 
There was some guy on Bill Maher over the weekend, might've been Douglas Murray. He said Biden is holding up arms shipments because he still holds out hope for a two state solution. Michigan and Minnesota.
Douglas Murray is great.
 
I know you didn't use the word vengeance, but Israel's stated goal is the eradication of Hamas and the assurance to themselves that they will not be subject to the same type of attack again. That's not vengeance (although I'm sure many Israelis want exactly that).
I can understand why many would want it. But jet isn't an Israeli. And in the context of this conflict, saying "vengeance is justified" strikes extra chords wrong.
 
I know you didn't use the word vengeance, but Israel's stated goal is the eradication of Hamas and the assurance to themselves that they will not be subject to the same type of attack again. That's not vengeance (although I'm sure many Israelis want exactly that).
I think you are correct about Israel’s goal. Reaching the goal is even more difficult because of American ignorance about the issue, if not outright complicity, with the anti-Israeli mobs. The left standing up for Jew hate can only be explained by understanding the left will always stand against white people success, which Israel represents. And I believe foreign interests are manipulating the hate mobs. Democrats and liberals now see the word through an oppressed/oppressor lens.
 
You tell me to slow the f**k down & have a serious discussion & then post this? Lol. This is a great example of disingenuous posting, unfortunately all too common from you Goat.
I'm sorry, what I meant was, all you need to do is read my replies, because the answer is right there. In the context of what is essentially a religious war, I find it distasteful that someone would state "vengeance is justified."

The reason I suggested you should slow down is because you responded to a strawman. Instead of responding to the very reasonable post I actually made, you accused me of something unreasonable so that you could attack that. It's the worst kind of cynical fallacious posting there is.
 
I'm sorry, what I meant was, all you need to do is read my replies, because the answer is right there. In the context of what is essentially a religious war, I find it distasteful that someone would state "vengeance is justified."

The reason I suggested you should slow down is because you responded to a strawman. Instead of responding to the very reasonable post I actually made, you accused me of something unreasonable so that you could attack that. It's the worst kind of cynical fallacious posting there is.
I’m not religious, but would subscribe to the Old Testament eye for an eye over turn the other cheek. I also don’t believe the Palestinians should be given a state anymore than the US should provide a section of the southeast to Mexicans crossing the border. They lost the war, it’s Israel’s land/country now. You can assimilate, leave, or become terrorists in which case you’ll be killed. I presume that your answer of Jerusalem is nothing more than an unwillingness to admit that it is the Palestinians who have rejected numerous offers for their own state, not that Israel has not offered them one.

If you find vengeance & retaliation distasteful, I can’t imagine how you’d describe the use of a historical conflict to justify & defend the planned murder, rape, torture, & kidnapping of women, children, including our own fellow citizens.
 
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I’m not religious, but would subscribe to the Old Testament eye for an eye over turn the other cheek. I also don’t believe the Palestinians should be given a state anymore than the US should provide a section of the southeast to Mexicans crossing the border. They lost the war, it’s Israel’s land/country now. You can assimilate, leave, or become terrorists in which case you’ll be killed. I presume that your answer of Jerusalem is nothing more than an unwillingness to admit that it is the Palestinians who have rejected numerous offers for their own state, not that Israel has not offered them one.

If you find vengeance & retaliation distasteful, I can’t imagine how you’d describe the use of a historical conflict to justify & defend the planned murder, rape, torture, & kidnapping of women, children, including our own fellow citizens.
Israel has offered no such thing. Israel has offered the Palestinians to live in a semi-state, whose sovereignty is subject to the whims of an occupying Israeli government.

They came close to offering a state at Camp David. In hindsight, obviously the Palestinians should have conceded every point on which they continued to disagree, because they will never get another deal that good again. But it's simply not accurate to pretend that Israel has offered up what the Palestinians want, and the Palestinians have somehow rejected it.

But one of the main sticking points they couldn't get over was Jerusalem, specifically what to do with the Temple Mount. Neither side was willing to agree to what the Americans put out there as a compromise. And so the summit failed.
 
The left standing up for Jew hate
Pure bullshit ...

The majority of protestors are anti-Bibi/anti-apartheid and want universities to cut ties and support to Israel. Framing the protest as being purely anti-Jew.. or the left as supporting Jew hate is nothing but propaganda and dishonest ... but that's exactly what you are, a dishonest propagandist.
 
Pure bullshit ...

The majority of protestors are anti-Bibi/anti-apartheid and want universities to cut ties and support to Israel. Framing the protest as being purely anti-Jew.. or the left as supporting Jew hate is nothing but propaganda and dishonest ... but that's exactly what you are, a dishonest propagandist.
Sure thing. That’s why the almost all the activists decorate themselves with the keffiyehs and wave the flags in the colors of jew hating savages who butchered Jews and then bragged about it.
 
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I’m skeptical but…

To be clear, the NCRI report does not say that "the anti-Israel protest movement" is linked to the CCP, but rather than one specific anti-Israel protest organization ("Shut It Down For Palestine) is. I don't think that's entirely unsurprising, but I also don't think it's quite as big a deal as the Tweet suggests.
 
Closing in on 700 Israeli combat deaths since 10/7. They’re essentially losing more than a Fallujah’s worth of troops every month. Meanwhile rockets still fly into Israel daily, as well as border crossings where aid is coming in.

We often talk about this as if Israel is just pummeling these poor defenseless Palestinians. Meanwhile they’re incurring heavy losses and also under attack.
 
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I know you didn't use the word vengeance, but Israel's stated goal is the eradication of Hamas and the assurance to themselves that they will not be subject to the same type of attack again. That's not vengeance (although I'm sure many Israelis want exactly that).

Israeli leadership has used plenty of language that suggests vengeance is a component. these statements are well documented. "Flattening Gaza" and "sending it back to Middle Ages" are stated goals. just imagine the pushback if US officials talked like that. even right after 9/11. sheeeeesh.

specifically, as of now, we know Israel wants to dismantle Hamas, is expecting and willing to accept 2:1 civilian to fighter kill ratio, and then wants to return Gaza to an amplified status quo. great, they're baking a bigger cake using the same crappy recipe.
 
Israeli leadership has used plenty of language that suggests vengeance is a component. these statements are well documented. "Flattening Gaza" and "sending it back to Middle Ages" are stated goals. just imagine the pushback if US officials talked like that. even right after 9/11. sheeeeesh.

specifically, as of now, we know Israel wants to dismantle Hamas, is expecting and willing to accept 2:1 civilian to fighter kill ratio, and then wants to return Gaza to an amplified status quo. great, they're baking a bigger cake using the same crappy recipe.
I haven't seen those quotes from the government (those controlling things and setting policy).
 
I haven't seen those quotes from the government (those controlling things and setting policy).

Pulled these from one of my earlier posts in this thread. there's plenty more where these came from. The Israelis, even the important people, speak of vengeance regularly.

"When I see Palestinian citizens escaping into Sinai, the way Lebanese citizens escape toward Beirut when there is a round of fire against Israel -- we will then know that the deterrence has been achieved." -- Israel Katz, Israel's Transport Minister, in 2016

"The goal of the operation is to send Gaza back to the Middle Ages, only then will Israel be calm for the next 40 years." -- Israeli Interior Minister Eli Yishai, in 2012

“Gaza should be razed and Israel’s rule should be restored to the place. This is our country." -- Moshe Feiglin, the founder of Israel's right-wing Zehut Party and former Likud representative in Israel’s parliament, in 2023

"There are no innocents in Gaza, don't let any diplomats who want to look good in the world endanger your lives -- mow them down!" -- Michael Ben-Ari, member of the Knesset, in 2012

"We need to flatten entire neighborhoods in Gaza. Flatten all of Gaza. The Americans didn't stop with Hiroshima -- the Japanese weren't surrendering fast enough, so they hit Nagasaki, too. There should be no electricity in Gaza, no gasoline or moving vehicles, nothing." -- Gilad Sharon, son of the former Israeli Prime minister Ariel Sharon, in 2023
 
Pulled these from one of my earlier posts in this thread. there's plenty more where these came from. The Israelis, even the important people, speak of vengeance regularly.

"When I see Palestinian citizens escaping into Sinai, the way Lebanese citizens escape toward Beirut when there is a round of fire against Israel -- we will then know that the deterrence has been achieved." -- Israel Katz, Israel's Transport Minister, in 2016

"The goal of the operation is to send Gaza back to the Middle Ages, only then will Israel be calm for the next 40 years." -- Israeli Interior Minister Eli Yishai, in 2012

“Gaza should be razed and Israel’s rule should be restored to the place. This is our country." -- Moshe Feiglin, the founder of Israel's right-wing Zehut Party and former Likud representative in Israel’s parliament, in 2023

"There are no innocents in Gaza, don't let any diplomats who want to look good in the world endanger your lives -- mow them down!" -- Michael Ben-Ari, member of the Knesset, in 2012

"We need to flatten entire neighborhoods in Gaza. Flatten all of Gaza. The Americans didn't stop with Hiroshima -- the Japanese weren't surrendering fast enough, so they hit Nagasaki, too. There should be no electricity in Gaza, no gasoline or moving vehicles, nothing." -- Gilad Sharon, son of the former Israeli Prime minister Ariel Sharon, in 2023
None of those people are making policy on Gaza right now, though, are they? Those are Israelis to be sure, who held power in the past.

But have people with policy making responsibility now said anything like this since October 7th?
 
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Pulled these from one of my earlier posts in this thread. there's plenty more where these came from. The Israelis, even the important people, speak of vengeance regularly.

"When I see Palestinian citizens escaping into Sinai, the way Lebanese citizens escape toward Beirut when there is a round of fire against Israel -- we will then know that the deterrence has been achieved." -- Israel Katz, Israel's Transport Minister, in 2016

"The goal of the operation is to send Gaza back to the Middle Ages, only then will Israel be calm for the next 40 years." -- Israeli Interior Minister Eli Yishai, in 2012

“Gaza should be razed and Israel’s rule should be restored to the place. This is our country." -- Moshe Feiglin, the founder of Israel's right-wing Zehut Party and former Likud representative in Israel’s parliament, in 2023

"There are no innocents in Gaza, don't let any diplomats who want to look good in the world endanger your lives -- mow them down!" -- Michael Ben-Ari, member of the Knesset, in 2012

"We need to flatten entire neighborhoods in Gaza. Flatten all of Gaza. The Americans didn't stop with Hiroshima -- the Japanese weren't surrendering fast enough, so they hit Nagasaki, too. There should be no electricity in Gaza, no gasoline or moving vehicles, nothing." -- Gilad Sharon, son of the former Israeli Prime minister Ariel Sharon, in 2023
So what?

Like we didn't want vengeance after 9/11? After Pearl Harbor? Oh no, the people who got attacked by savages who broke a previous ceasefire and then saw their countrymen and women's bodies drug through the streets want vengeance? That is natural. Beating the ever loving piss out of your enemy is EXACTLY how you handle these things. They shouldn't apologize for vengeance.
 
None of those people are making policy on Gaza right now, though, are they? Those are Israelis to be sure, who held power in the past.

But have people with policy making responsibility now said anything like this since October 7th?

I get that you are a professional hairsplitter, Brad, and appreciate that but this is like our talk on whether Israel and Palestine have colonial relationship or not. we're not holding a trial here. I mean, if it walks like a duck....

maybe we can just agree Israel's management of this war is vengeance-adjacent or vengeance-like. lol

imagine the US secretary of transportation saying he wants to see Afghani citizens scatter in 2001. jeebus
 
So what?

Like we didn't want vengeance after 9/11? After Pearl Harbor? Oh no, the people who got attacked by savages who broke a previous ceasefire and then saw their countrymen and women's bodies drug through the streets want vengeance? That is natural. Beating the ever loving piss out of your enemy is EXACTLY how you handle these things. They shouldn't apologize for vengeance.

got a link to the quotes by US officials and dignitaries wishing Afghanistan to be flattened and its people killed and scattered after 9/11?

I'm glad you are so in touch with your feelings but do I really have to tell you why developed liberal democracies don't promote vengeance? why countries promoting a stable international community don't say shit like "mow them all down"?

pro tip: you're going to have to step past your raw dog emotions to get to the right answer

free tip: pearl harbor and WW2 are stupid comparisons to the war in Gaza
 
I get that you are a professional hairsplitter, Brad, and appreciate that but this is like our talk on whether Israel and Palestine have colonial relationship or not. we're not holding a trial here. I mean, if it walks like a duck....

maybe we can just agree Israel's management of this war is vengeance-adjacent or vengeance-like. lol

imagine the US secretary of transportation saying he wants to see Afghani citizens scatter in 2001. jeebus
I think your logic is faulty; it’s not hairsplitting. I stated in the original message that some (I’m betting most) Israelis want vengeance. See IUCrazy’s post.

But the current Israeli admin has stated, and is acting like, it is seeking to carry out a military goal, not enact revenge. You’ve quoted people, some from more than 10 years ago, who are not now in government.

Can you imagine judging US policy based on quote mining the more radical Americans for bad intent, even if they weren’t then in power?
 
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