Is Woodson on the hot seat?
- Thread starter h20pls
- Start date
I'm sure Dolson will let the season play out, but I've seen enough.
He most certainly should be but I doubt he is. He is buddies with Quinn and the old guard who will scream bloddy murder if he gets fired.
Rule of thumb. Don't hire an alumnus. If it doesn't work out, makes it even tougher to get rid of.
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Imo no way. IU hired a new coach after missing the tournament (or only making it once for those that think we were in for the Covid year) for 5 straight years. In those 5 years we had win totals of 18, 16, 19, 20 and 12. What school would then fire a coach after winning 21 and 23 games in his first 2 seasons, making and winning games in the tournament his first two years? I would argue zero. Even if we miss the tournament this year imo Woodson will get at least one more year to rebound before being on the hot seat. Now the story would be complete different if he took over a program that was winning 25+ games every year but we haven’t been that in a loooong time.
I'd agree with this, but if I was Dolson I'd be sitting down with him and going over how he is planning to address these recurring issues in play, as well as backcourt players and depth and plans/vision for the program. Many concerning signs and basically CMW rejected the plans put in place to help with that (Matta and Fife) but these are the things that seem to be tripping him up. He may not owe explanations to beat writers and fans, but he does to the AD, and I'd want to hear concrete plans and answers to the above. Where there's smoke, there's fire and there's plenty to suggest nagging and pretty serious issues with the program.
So, no, I don't think he should be fired; unless you don't like the answers you get and he refuses to come up with a plan to address things. Honestly, I think it looks like CMW is not the guy and there are guys out there (May, Beard, Pearl, etc...) that I think could have us rolling fairly quickly.
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I kinda doubt Dolson pushes him to give him specifics on things he's planning on changing, and/or if he's changing anything. Maybe though?
I think more likely...and what I'd do if I were Dolson... I continue to be positive during the season with Woodson, and make sure he knows he has my support if he wants to make any major changes, including in his staff. And that while I don't have the bball expertise that Woody does, I'm always here if he wants to discuss any ideas or thoughts he might have on roster changes, styles of play, etc...
And then, I watch and evaluate how he handles the rest of this season. At the end of this season I immediately give him my support as the IU basketball coach, and tell everyone I'm excited to see what he does in the offseason for the upcoming season. And I watch and evaluate how he approaches and handles this offseason.
At the end of this next offseason, my decision would be made on whether Woodson was going to be my coach at the end of the 2024-25 season. IF, Woody shows any level of awareness that what he's doing now isn't working, and that he needs to change to fix it. IF there's a curiosity and willingness to change his staff, to change how he puts rosters together, change how he manages the players...and he goes about implementing those changes the rest of this season and offseason...THEN even if the team struggles again next year, as long as there are concrete signs of life and improvement...he's still the coach moving forward if he wants it.
But IF, he remains to everyone in the program how he sounds in the media, which is stubborn and indignant...and IF he doubles down on his current styles and philosophies...and IF we go through an offseason and can't remake our roster with a handful of high caliber perimeter players...THEN, even if Woody does win enough again next year to make the NCAAs, he IS NOT the man for the job.
He kinda doubled down on his philosophy by getting rid of Fife and losing Matta.
Ehhh, kinda...we've had some success after that though.
Fife got rid of himself...he set IU back by slamming NIL, when that was OBVIOUSLY something IU was going to need and would provide IU a big advantage.
Matta...did Woody get rid of Matta, or did Matta just get healthier and decide he was ready to coach again?
No matter what...we finished in the top 5 in the B10, and won an NCAA tournament game after those 2 guys left.
What I'd be paying attention to is how he handles himself and his program now that its pretty obvious it isn't headed in the right direction. 1)Is he aware of that? 2)Is he open/willing to accept responsibility for that? 3)Is he willing to make hard decisions to start to fix it? 4)Do those decisions start to turn the ship around again?
And I'd make it abundantly clear he has every resource at his disposal to figure it out, and to improve things.
His season after the department had a very veteran team and they landed JHS.
I get your point but Woody’s decision with how he runs things, set this season up.
He wil not change a thing he had 40 years in the nba and its clear that is how he is going to coach. Next year will be his last imo.
Could be... he deserves the opportunity though. And to me, his awareness of the need for change, and his willingness to address it would go a long way in my decision to keep him after next season.
I've been trumpeting that Woody needed to change his offensive style and focus since early in his first year...for what its worth. And I'm VERY down on this team. They look as bad or worse than their metrics say they are... so outside some sort of major philosophy change by Woody...their metrics and what we're all seeing...that's who they're going to keep being. Which is a bummer.
But I think he's done enough good things for the program, to deserve more time.
The Dane Fife thing is so overplayed. Another “hero” to save the program. If Fife is such a great coach why doesn’t he have a coaching job anywhere right now. Check his record at IPFW. There is no evidence to suggest that Fife was going to save the program.
You didn't say that in this particular case. But there are hundreds of posts about how things went downhill after Fife left. I have no issues with Fife leaving. Good riddance.
You think it was good getting rid of guys that have college experience?
My college roommate is best friends with Fife. Interesting stories for sure.
I think to publicly state negative things about NIL as a college coach in today’s game is pretty much a death penalty. There is just nothing about Fife that makes me think that he would be a good coach. And I definitely did not want him to take over for Woodson after a few years. I hope we can do better than that.
Why would that be your approach? You don't think there are signs of concern to someone not on the staff: lack of depth at guards and failure to recruit, shooting, shooting and more lack of shooting, the offense, etc...? My position would be that it's my job to insure success of all our programs, but bball is priority 1 because of it's importance to the fanbase, alumni and school. I'd acknowledge that I don't have the answers, but I'd want to know why Matta and Fife, who were hired to provide guidance and assistance, are gone and it doesn't seem those roles have been replaced on the staff. I'd make it clear that I feel my job success and security is tied to that of the head bball coach and the bball product/performance hasn't been good, recruiting seems to rely on portal players and I want to make sure "we" succeed. I don't need to come up with the answers, but CMW is being paid to and I'd want to know his plan. It's getting bad when you can turn on podcasts and listen to former IU players (not named Dakich) be critical of the team and roster.
It feels like we’re mostly all saying the same thing. Changes need to be made. Support is abundant. Get it done or hit the door. Some say it softer. Some say it harder.
I think it could go badly very quickly if an AD were to try to tell a head coach how he needs to run his team or specific things he needs to change. The HC is presumed to be the expert on these things, not the AD. I've obviously not been in either role myself but I think I more agree with North, you express support and offer to help with resources at this point, and just observe.
I wouldn’t have wanted that either but his knowledge of the college game is very high. NIL when he said it was made by guys like Saban, and Dabo as well. College coaches hate NiL.
Letting woodson coach another year will be very toxic. This was never going to work it was only masked for two years because he had TJD to save him. I will say again the hire was just stupid on paper even worse than the archie hire. It never mad any sense except to excite his buddies Buckner and May.
I love how they all run with the fife rumors they heard online. The bottom line is fife and matta had tons of college experience and woodson is now left with a buch of overhyped recruiters as assistants
Yeah, there were (and are) plenty of coaches that publicly declare their absolute distaste of NIL. I always thought that was a very convenient argument for removing Fife.
Honest question: Is there a college coach in any sport that says positive things about NIL? I feel like there are plenty of still-employed coaches who don't like it and have made their feelings known for the most part.
And I think people are sleeping on Fife. Izzo thought the world of him and until he didn't see eye-to-eye with Woodson fans and people at IU did too. If Fife wants to coach again, I think he could still land a decent job - and I bet he does well wherever he ends up. And there will be a lot of posts on boards like these wondering if IU didn't mess up keeping him.
In response to both you and kkott...
All conjecture, obviously. And a direct approach where Dolson tells him he needs to change his staff, needs to change his style, needs to do this and that...I guess is fine. He better be ready to be specific about it though, and I don't know that Dolson is qualified to be specific about what needs to be done.
I suppose he could just tell him that the results need to change, so he should probably think about changing how he goes about his business...but again...gotta be prepared to give suggestions or examples on what to do if you're gonna call someone like Woody out like that.
From my perspective...its probably pretty obvious to Dolson that there's a problem, and I'm sure he has very, very strong questions on whether Woody is any sort of long term answer any more (God, I hope so anyways). But moving on him after this season, just isn't realistic...and it'd be difficult to justify with most of the people that matter, I'm sure. So I'm making the assumption, for Dolson, that canning him after this year, basically no matter how bad it ends, isn't gonna happen.
At that point, to me, its A LOT more powerful if Woody comes to these realizations on his own, and decides to shake things up and make changes on his own. That tells me A LOT more about him as a long term candidate than if I give him ominous vague warnings like "figure it out, or else". And THEN, he makes changes. Much more likely if he does things on his own, that they're well thought out, that he believes in them, and that he's fully behind them. We don't need half assed, forced, efforts right now.
And further...even the act of offering full support for changes, should be a message in and of itself for any one that has any level of awareness of what his situation is. But at a minimum, it sends the message that IU Athletics will support their coach, and do whatever is necessary within the rules and within IU's desired culture, to win and be successful.
"Coach Donovan, you know I gave Mike every resource and all the support he needed. And we'll do that for you too!" Firing Woodson now...or strong arming him now...and firing him next spring, isn't going to help the next coaching search.
Even Deon went on a bit of a tirade yesterday. Not sure how he can do it when his 2 sons are 2 of the highest paid players in college athletics.
Regardless of what is true and what isn't, I did not want Fife as the head coach of Indiana basketball. Did you?
I approve of this message. 😂 It’s going to be interesting. With Woody’s recent dismissive attitude toward the media, I’m not overly confident he’s not gone somewhat tone deaf.
No and I did not woodson as the coach either. Just like I dont want Michael Lewis. The whole you gotta hire an IU guy stuff in nonsense. The game and recruiting has changed so much kids no longer care if you went to that school nor do they really care about what IU did 40 years ago.
I am 100% with you on this. I also don't want Dusty May just because he was a student manager here in 1996.
I don’t think anyone, but I think most would agree that Woody needed a voice in the coaches room that knows and understands the college game.
Fair enough. I won't disagree that our current staff isn't much to be impressed by. I do feel like quite a few fans were excited about a plan to have Fife as 'the coach in waiting.' Maybe I'm wrong.
