Is it too soon for the 2025 coach thread?
- Thread starter ce36ei
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Thanks to Covid, otherwise he'd have gotten an extension.
You’re conveniently leaving out the fact that when Archie took over the final KenPom had us 44 the year before he got there and by the end of his first season we were 71……
For sure we're doing some new stuff. And maybe we will expand on that as the year wears on. Galloway's impact coming in to games has been awesome. He and Ballo seem to be working well together in pick and rolls, I'd love to see that expanded on, and combined with some movement on the wings at the same time.
And maybe I'm over exaggerating how much we're running Ballo and Reneau to the block. I just know there were multiple times, in all 4 of our games so far, where they've went multiple possessions in a row ISO'ing either Malik or Ballo on the post, and all 4 of the other guys just stand stationary and don't move, waiting for the post move. And then a lot of the times we do run some sort of horns action, or pick and roll of any kind, the other 2-3 players are standing stationary on the wings or in the corners. And no matter what we run, there is VERY little side to side player and/or ball movement. No matter what Woodson runs, that's a hallmark of his...single side ISO action. I know it gets some peoples panties all bound up, but that is Carmelo Anthony Knicks style basketball. And despite players becoming bigger and more skilled, and harder to guard 1 on 1, basically every single professional and college program has long abandoned those single side ISO principles.
There are times where it looks like we're trying to utilize the whole court more, the pinch post stuff you mention is a great example. We have the perfect pinch post big in Malik, and Mack would be great in that spot as well. But we don't run anything off of that, to create open looks on the wings and in the corners, and/or to clear lanes for Malik to make moves to the basket. And it seems like we have Ballo in that spot as much as we do Malik. That obviously is NOT Ballo's strength. He needs to be MOVING, pick and roll, diving in and out of the post, pinning guys early in transition. He is NOT a traditional low post move big. And he isn't very good catching it in the pinch post spot an making decisions or plays with the ball. But even there, I haven't criticized those efforts before this post, because I love the general sentiment and thought of having the bigs pulled away from the block, and running things through that high free throw lane/pinch post area.
And none of this touches on how poor our team looks trying to help and recover defensively. Year 4, if you're actually demanding and teaching normal, basic "nail" help and recover stuff, your teams would be more than proficient with it. As I've said before, he either isn't good at teaching it, or he really isn't trying all that hard, or isn't demanding it.
ALL of these things can improve. And I hope they do. As we sit now, its just very disappointing that these granular things with the game appear to be very similar to his first 3 teams.
Archie Miller never made the tournament nor beat Purdue. That's all you need to know about Archie. I won't even get into the lack of player development, lack of accountability or control of the locker room, etc
He was not cut for this job and was uncomfortable from day 1.
I hate the ISO stuff too. So much. Unfortunately, I don’t think we’re ever gonna stop seeing that. We do seem to get stagnant more than we should as well. I’m just hoping that we’ll expand the offense with more new “stuff” as the season goes along. I understand your frustrations though for sure.
Some people define their lives by the misery they feel and if there's no reason to be miserable they'll create one.
Is it possible to be very concerned about the recurring trends...while at the same time be very excited about watching how guys like Rice, Carlyle, and Ballo develop and mesh with our returning guys?
Some things I am already excited about, and looking forward to staying excited about.
1. Our ability to effectively pressure the ball on the perimeter. That's been lacking on past teams, it should be a relative strength of ours this year.
2. Our depth. While I don't want Woodson to implement hockey style lineups. Having Galloway and Tucker coming off the bench can't be understated how big of a deal that will be for us. And then having a guy like Cupps that can come in and pressure the ball defensively, promote ball movement offensively, and just be "solid".
3. Malik playing away from the basket more. Despite my harping on the post ISO stuff, and the lack of overall movement...it has been great to see Malik playing more away from the basket than parked on the block.
I've already made my concerns very clear.
We've added an additional cutter on high low after the low man catches at least a few times. I've also seen a guard drop down and add an additional pick for the low man before catching.
There's some new wrinkles but I would really like to see our bigs pass the damn ball to shooters instead of each other when the defense collapses, and then maybe repost or exchange with other big and repost. You know, make the defense move ...
Totally fair. I have concerns too. And I always appreciate your feedback on here as you have lots of knowledge and your concerns are based on things that we’re seeing. I just get tired off all the people running here at halftime of the second game of the season to fire the coach… I mean just like at the title of this thread.. it’s embarrassing 😂
I think the biggest crux of our problems under Woody...and hopefully it works its way out a little bit as the year wears on...but his teams don't force other teams defenses in to rotations. That's what movement does. We are expanding the wrinkles we run off things, but there's still waaaayyy too much standing around, and not nearly enough side to side movement. Basically all the most popular principles center around creating double gaps in defenses. It used to be finding and exploiting matchup advantages, and situationally, that's all well and good. But as a general rule, most coaches are running offenses that create double gaps in the defense, which forces defense in to rotations. And players are too big and fast and good to adequately guard in more open spaces, which is what those double gaps are. When's the last time a Woodson offense created a guy penetrating into a wide open gap, that they ended in either a layup, or a kick out three to the corner from the only remaining help defender scrambling to help...rarely, if ever. Yet its what our defense sees on an almost nightly basis, and its what causes our guys to be running around wildly, trying to recover in their rotations. When we play lesser teams, we can get their and run them off the line, and have guys like Ballo, or Ware last year, to clean up on the back end. When we play good teams, heck even mediocre teams like Nebraska or Penn State, that just move the ball well, and shoot it decently, we get our asses stomped.
We have the guys to attack the gaps more, to run things to create double gaps. Frustrating that we rarely see it.
One of those guys began ranting about this season about five minutes after Rice committed. He was absolutely giddy that someone on a national board was saying that IU didn't help themselves with that acquisition. It got entertaining because he got his skull kicked in (figuratively of course) over it and he laid low for a period of time. The irony is this guy said he was taking a wit and see approach to this season. 😂🤣😂
I'm guilty of it myself. I openly use this place, and a texting thread with my family, to vent about IU sports.
The one simple play I noted above as an example... Basically it's not rocket surgery. The man in that corner and the man on the wing are in a 2 on 1 situation, one pass, defense has to make a choice, either a shot or rotate the ball to an open player, rinse repeat.. makes the defense react .. instead we pass big to big and take defended shots.
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I stopped when you left out that XJ didn't play most of the season. So it was a true freshmen,and almost no other ball handler. If you want a conversation...you have to give an accurate depiction. Not one that supports your narrative.
Also..by your own account...Last year is what turned people against Woodson...
But after last year...he also went out and addressed the talent issues(backcourt and wings especially). Would that not mean that he learned, and adjusted? Speaking of adjusting...they didn't play well in the 1st half the other day....but blew the doors off them in the 2nd. Wouldn't that also make one think there might have been some adjusting at halftime?
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Don't forget he had a good guard in Jakai Newton who was unable to play and took up a spot... Some selectively paint a picture...
Ha so what is it exactly that you're a fan of ole IU... You are an ND fan you love Purdue kind of bewildering...
North, you are arguing with a maniacal 12 year old. Please ignore until his/her mommy decides to abort.
That's the thought now, thoughts are always bigger than reality and by seasons end we say the team lacks talent. But regardless, I'm with you. CMW has this season to show out. I just hope we are all on the same page that it's now or never.
I don’t love PU, I actually hate them. I have state a number of times I respect how painter has done it how his team plays. That’s it!
Frustrating that we have rarely seen it...in 2 games? Last years roster didn't have the same talent on the perimeter...so last year is moot,and only included because you know the underwhelming truth of your argument without it. 2 games....not last year.
Also...the most recent basketball we have seen...was the 54-18 2nd half of that game. It was the 2nd game of the year. Why would everything bad, be the focus and topic of conversation among "fans"? It's like someone kicked the fanbases' collective dog in the teeth...it makes no sense. Last year last year last year.....it's OVER. Talk about this year's team.
It seems some only want to see it one way... Anything they can drag into tbeir narrative is all they see. Defense is what is going to define this team. As this team gels and players find their roles the haters' narrative will disintegrate.
Wishful thinking. It doesn't matter what happens. They made up their mind a season ago(atleast) and are not willing to consider anything else. Leaving out the major talent/injury issues from last years team, when making an assessment, is obvious proof. Plus,you can see it in their posts. We are in the following season,games have started, and these morons are still talking about last year!....lol...what other fan base in the world...bitches incessantly,about last year, during the current season?....lmao...in what world is that even reasonable? So no...it won't disintegrate. They will simply create new reasons and ways to bitch. It's all they know. Pretty similar to one of our political partys
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Gave him credit for assembling this team and recruiting in general. He's gotten talent, it just hasn't always made sense. You act like CMW has to play with whoever shows up at the gym the first day. Having adequate experience and depth is his responsibility, and much more addressable with NIL and the xfer portal as this year's team illustrates. Yes, X was hurt a big chunk 2 years ago, but we obviously had a capable PG in JHS because he was a surprise 1 and done. But, then it was CMW's decision to run it back with XJ who was coming off a serious injury as the primary ballhandler and a freshman backup. This is the first year he's really had adequate depth in the backcourt... year 4. If it's been a problem, and it has, it's one that's on him. And, as far as Sunday, adjusting to schemes at halftime is understandable and excellent, having to adjust because your team doesn't show up with effort in the first half is more concerning, especially given then issue with blowouts we've had. Still, I've given him credit for assembling this team and he's our coach and I'll support him, but I also see and understand the concerns others have and think they are understandable and valid. How about his staff; do we agree that's his responsibility? Do you think it's a good staff that addresses any shortcomings he has? Good, young prospects on staff that other programs are watching as potential HCs? Killing it in recruiting? Again, valid concerns in year 4 and someone isn't a POS for discussing it on an IU bball board.
why not just say what you want to say, instead of asking a leading question? I think so, especially if you consider depth. But, I've already said I give CMW credit for assembling this roster and for recruiting in general. My posts here have nothing to do with the team or CMW and whether he should be fired. My whole point has been that concerns about the coach and his actions are understandable, and someone who claims to be an IU fan, calling other fans who do question things, POS, sucks. It's an IU bball board, our coach and his actions, strengths and weaknesses, strategy, etc... are all reasonable topics. I don't like people complaining during games either, but again, with the issues we had last year putting away cupcakes and getting blown out, an entire half where we play like crap is concerning. Also fair to recognize they righted the ship and did dominate them in the 2nd half.
And recruiting the backcourt wasn't affected by kids knowing the offense was going to run through the All-American? I can see fault for not having more depth last year(even though 2 guards were hurt). But again, 1 year, and then things changed,and more depth was added.
so what's your expectations for this year and this team? What constitutes exceeding expectations, meeting them or not? What are your projected B10 finish and tournament run?
top 3 with who? You think anyone has a roster this good, or are you discounting for our coach? I think we have the best roster by a good bit and think we should win the conference, barring injury. That was always CMWs stated goal and he has the team to do it. I think IL has the next best team.
Ucla has a good roster. Rutgers has 2 of the top 5 freshmen in the country. Illinois is good.....and there's usually a surprise team in there somewhere.
What are there…35 teams in the B10?
They all have varying levels of talent. They will all show up and challenge IU. Getting this team to top 3 in the league will be a real accomplishment. It’s going to be challenging marathon.
Ah a realist! Some set expectations high so they can gripe about not reaching expectations... But in reality... lots of good teams in the B1G
Oh...your one of these guys...lol..."they paid for a team"...smh....pssst...almost every team in the country pays players. Don't tell anyone...it's a secret.
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