Is it too soon for the 2025 coach thread?

[LifelongIU77]

Orrr..... We're 105 games in to Woodson's career at IU. And the excitement that we all have for this new roster...which, by the way, does have quite a lot of returning experience and talent...but anyways, it is an upgraded roster, and Woodson did make mention in the offseason about needing to focus on more guard play...ALL of that increased the anticipation for this season to FINALLY be the one that Woodson shakes off his older, stubborn, plodding offensive principles, and steps in to the 2020s with a more open, movement based offense. And that this different roster would be better defensively, more athletic and better on the boards...

ALL of that created renewed excitement and buzz coming in to the season. Then came the exhibitions, saw some new wrinkles, but largely the same ISO centric stuff. The defense in those exhibitions did look better. But the offense...that damn stagnant offense... still there. Its o.k....just exhibitions...he wouldn't want to show any new stuff in the exhibitions anyway...I'm sure he'll open it up more when the games count.

What you're reading now, from me anyways, is frustration over the new realization that this is how Woodson's teams will always play. He's had since August to change things around to maximize guys like Rice, Carlyle, Tucker, etc... Heck, even maximize Ballo. But what he's doing, is merely plugging them in to largely the exact same principles and plays he's ran since day 1 in Bloomington.

Our buddy up in West Lafayette had to completely change his entire offense around because Edey left. They're running crazy new stuff like inverted ball screens...and they're a top 10 offense early in the year. We have thoroughbreds, standing flat footed around the perimeter, watching Ballo work in post ISOs, for more than a few possessions each game.

He's had lots of different kinds of talent. He's had dominant bigs. He's had NBA level guards. The constant in his time at IU, through his ONE HUNDRED AND FIVE games, is they're up and down effort and intensity wise, they don't consistently move much on offense, they're bad in defensive rotations, and they put themselves in bad positions within games, and within seasons, and need to "change", or "improve", or explode and have good halves or stretches of games.

But...you are right...it is early... and we did put our first 2 opponents away, which is different and better than what we did last year. South Carolina and UNC Greensboro will be obvious steps up in competition level. Excited to see how we respond, and what we do differently in those games.

Yeah....54 points in the 2nd half screams same old huh?...go look at their assists totals compared to made FG's and tell me it's the same. Also...as 1 poster said (one that hates Woodson mind you) ...what does the system matter if the we get the desired results?....they won a game by 35 and you guys sound stupid. I bet Purdue fans are calling for Painters head this morning...they only beat Yale by 8...oh wait...that's just our pathetic so called fans. It's absolutely pathetic. We sound like the worst fan base in college basketball. Maybe that's why no top tier coaches want to come here.

 

[LifelongIU77]

Sorry, I don't accept or agree with that. You can't have it both ways: fans that care and show up, and fans that won't complain when you lose or are below par. Would you rather have it as it is at most programs and the fans just stop coming and caring when we're bad? Guess what, when that's the case they don't show up in droves and support you other than when you're great. Has PU ever re-started a midnight madness event after their attendance dropped into the 4 digits when they were bad? IU has good fans and when that's the case, they'll grumble when things don't go well. And the very best things have gone in CMWs tenure is OK. Are you OK with OK? Was last year OK? Why did the players hate the fans last year? because people never want to blame themselves when things go poorly. How do you think FSU, Florida or Alabama football fans are this year? Patient and happy? Right.

I read the first line...that's it. It makes 0 difference what you accept. IU has trash basketball fans...no debating it.

 

[Imsowyctcwuzbetta]

Yeah yeah yeah, you're a fan of mediocrity. We get it.

I genuinely can't fathom a "true" fan thinking Woody has achieved anything at IU. All the resources (NIL, etc.) and the highlight of his tenure is a Round of 32 beatdown ... with an All-American and 1st-Round pick. But hey, all is roses because he's (arguably) better than Archie. 🙄

Same ole nonsensical narrative.... Mediocrity

 

[IUNorth]

Yeah....54 points in the 2nd half screams same old huh?...go look at their assists totals compared to made FG's and tell me it's the same. Also...as 1 poster said (one that hates Woodson mind you) ...what does the system matter if the we get the desired results?....they won a game by 35 and you guys sound stupid. I bet Purdue fans are calling for Painters head this morning...they only beat Yale by 8...oh wait...that's just our pathetic so called fans. It's absolutely pathetic. We sound like the worst fan base in college basketball. Maybe that's why no top tier coaches want to come here.

They have moments of movement...zoom based movement, horns, pick and roll...Ironically, most of this picks up when Galloway comes in the game. All good stuff, they look great when they do it. Exciting. Just like they looked great TJD's senior year when they started pulling him away from the basket. Hell, he even had a triple double and we beat pesky Rutgers from that change up. Its there, there's evidence that it can be done. But Woodson IU teams ALWAYS revert back.

ISO ball for multiple possessions in a row. Ballo ISO posting, and everyone standing and watching him work for multiple possessions. Ballo probably never did that at Arizona, for what its worth...because he isn't very good at it. Hockey line substitutions that kill momentum, because the players coming in don't fit what they're trying to do on the floor at the time. Long stretches where our defense is on its heels, struggling to work through rotations, and then struggling to rebound despite having 3 "bigs" oriented players on the floor.

I just want Woodson to do the things HE and HIS TEAMS have done well, more consistently. At this point, I don't even care if he tries to introduce new things. Just draw from his own IU experiences, and focus on doing the things that have actually worked for him. We should LITERALLY, NEVER, EVER, have an offensive set where we have guys like Rice, Carlyle, Mgbako, and Reneau, all standing around on the perimeter watching Ballo work in post ISO. Its absolutely absurd. Yet we're doing it, multiple times a game.

 

[LifelongIU77]

They have moments of movement...zoom based movement, horns, pick and roll...Ironically, most of this picks up when Galloway comes in the game. All good stuff, they look great when they do it. Exciting. Just like they looked great TJD's senior year when they started pulling him away from the basket. Hell, he even had a triple double and we beat pesky Rutgers from that change up. Its there, there's evidence that it can be done. But Woodson IU teams ALWAYS revert back.

ISO ball for multiple possessions in a row. Ballo ISO posting, and everyone standing and watching him work for multiple possessions. Ballo probably never did that at Arizona, for what its worth...because he isn't very good at it. Hockey line substitutions that kill momentum, because the players coming in don't fit what they're trying to do on the floor at the time. Long stretches where our defense is on its heels, struggling to work through rotations, and then struggling to rebound despite having 3 "bigs" oriented players on the floor.

I just want Woodson to do the things HE and HIS TEAMS have done well, more consistently. At this point, I don't even care if he tries to introduce new things. Just draw from his own IU experiences, and focus on doing the things that have actually worked for him. We should LITERALLY, NEVER, EVER, have an offensive set where we have guys like Rice, Carlyle, Mgbako, and Reneau, all standing around on the perimeter watching Ballo work in post ISO. Its absolutely absurd. Yet we're doing it, multiple times a game.

Smh...this too easy...should NEVER have Ballo in a post ISO...so if his defender is 6'7" and 220lbs....we shouldn't feed Ballo....ok...this is why I say IU fans are trash. Thank you

 

[BA47591]

Helluva roster

 

[Imsowyctcwuzbetta]

They have moments of movement...zoom based movement, horns, pick and roll...Ironically, most of this picks up when Galloway comes in the game. All good stuff, they look great when they do it. Exciting. Just like they looked great TJD's senior year when they started pulling him away from the basket. Hell, he even had a triple double and we beat pesky Rutgers from that change up. Its there, there's evidence that it can be done. But Woodson IU teams ALWAYS revert back.

ISO ball for multiple possessions in a row. Ballo ISO posting, and everyone standing and watching him work for multiple possessions. Ballo probably never did that at Arizona, for what its worth...because he isn't very good at it. Hockey line substitutions that kill momentum, because the players coming in don't fit what they're trying to do on the floor at the time. Long stretches where our defense is on its heels, struggling to work through rotations, and then struggling to rebound despite having 3 "bigs" oriented players on the floor.

I just want Woodson to do the things HE and HIS TEAMS have done well, more consistently. At this point, I don't even care if he tries to introduce new things. Just draw from his own IU experiences, and focus on doing the things that have actually worked for him. We should LITERALLY, NEVER, EVER, have an offensive set where we have guys like Rice, Carlyle, Mgbako, and Reneau, all standing around on the perimeter watching Ballo work in post ISO. Its absolutely absurd. Yet we're doing it, multiple times a game.

Relax and take off your hate CMW Spectacles

 

[iubhounds]

Yeah....54 points in the 2nd half screams same old huh?...go look at their assists totals compared to made FG's and tell me it's the same. Also...as 1 poster said (one that hates Woodson mind you) ...what does the system matter if the we get the desired results?....they won a game by 35 and you guys sound stupid. I bet Purdue fans are calling for Painters head this morning...they only beat Yale by 8...oh wait...that's just our pathetic so called fans. It's absolutely pathetic. We sound like the worst fan base in college basketball. Maybe that's why no top tier coaches want to come here.

The problem with that "54 points in the 2nd half" or "won a game by 35" ... is Eastern Illinois was ranked over 300 !!!! Yep the worst fan base in college basketball. This IU job opens up they will be flooded with good coaches. NOT HOF coaches but good college coaches.

 

[birdforbogey]

I am only seeing one actual true fan in this thread.

 

[kkott]

I read the first line...that's it. It makes 0 difference what you accept. IU has trash basketball fans...no debating it.

then you're a joke, refuse to read something that disagrees with your view. You think we have trash fans because an underperforming team didn't like the fans? "LifelongIU77, party of one; your table is ready!"

 

[iubhounds]

then you're a joke, refuse to read something that disagrees with your view. You think we have trash fans because an underperforming team didn't like the fans? "LifelongIU77, party of one; your table is ready!"

and this players didnt like the fans just didn't start last year. Where do you think Miller Kopp's "Indiana vs Everybody" came from?

 

[kkott]

and this players didnt like the fans just didn't start last year. Where do you think Miller Kopp's "Indiana vs Everybody" came from?

Yeah, I'm sure it's non-fans watching his podcasts, right? That I've seen, he's done nothing but praise his IU experience and the fans and opportunities they afford. Or, does he also have a podcast highlighting NW athletes and I've just missed it?

 

[iubhounds]

Yeah, I'm sure it's non-fans watching his podcasts, right? That I've seen, he's done nothing but praise his IU experience and the fans and opportunities they afford. Or, does he also have a podcast highlighting NW athletes and I've just missed it?

Not sure about the podcasts. All I know is that IU vs Everybody came out before their season was over and long before any podcasts. Now you have to be positive if you want to make money podcasting or controversial.

 

[kkott]

Not sure about the podcasts. All I know is that IU vs Everybody came out before their season was over and long before any podcasts. Now you have to be positive if you want to make money podcasting or controversial.

I've never heard of Indiana vs Everybody, but trying to circle your team's wagons and pitch it as "us against the world" is one of the oldest plays in the playbook, and is employed on just about every sports team. That's hardly unique to IU teams or fans.

 

[IUNorth]

Not sure about the podcasts. All I know is that IU vs Everybody came out before their season was over and long before any podcasts. Now you have to be positive if you want to make money podcasting or controversial.

This will start to tread in to some uncomfortable waters, I fear. But IF, emphasis on IF, a group of kids making more money to play college basketball than 99% of their fans make, and a coaching staff making quite a lot more than what our fans make...actually have that mentality of "us versus our fan base"...and continue to play mediocre basketball? That's an even bigger indictment on the leadership within our bball program. And if I were Dolson, I'd fire Woodson on the spot if that's actually where the Indiana vs Everybody came from.

 

[iubhounds]

I've never heard of Indiana vs Everybody, but trying to circle your team's wagons and pitch it as "us against the world" is one of the oldest plays in the playbook, and is employed on just about every sports team. That's hardly unique to IU teams or fans.

I agree but in IU's case, there were other comments made by players in interviews or podcasts, social media that it really was them against the fans, who were complaining during some losing streaks.

 

[IUNorth]

Smh...this too easy...should NEVER have Ballo in a post ISO...so if his defender is 6'7" and 220lbs....we shouldn't feed Ballo....ok...this is why I say IU fans are trash. Thank you

Read the entire sentence...dumb ass. Should never post Ballo...AND have 4 All B10 level players standing around watching a guy that isn't comfortable posting up. I don't care if the guy guarding him is 5'3", you can still have movement off the post. If for no other reason than to have offensive rebounders moving around. Why do you think we're struggling to rebound ourselves as much as we are? The answer, because you might not actually notice it or know, is because other teams we've played are moving the ball and people around on us a lot, its causing us into defensive rotations, which is making it harder for us to find guys to box out. These really aren't difficult principles. And when we do these simple things, we're really good. And we don't ALWAYS...not do them. But we have enough possessions within games where we don't move, and don't put any pressure on the defense, that it messes with our rhythm, and makes us a much less efficient team.

So yes...NEVER post Ballo up and have the other 4 players standing around. NEVER.

 

[hookyIU1990]

This will start to tread in to some uncomfortable waters, I fear. But IF, emphasis on IF, a group of kids making more money to play college basketball than 99% of their fans make, and a coaching staff making quite a lot more than what our fans make...actually have that mentality of "us versus our fan base"...and continue to play mediocre basketball? That's an even bigger indictment on the leadership within our bball program. And if I were Dolson, I'd fire Woodson on the spot if that's actually where the Indiana vs Everybody came from.

Was that the season they were all fighting with randos on instagram? Pencil neck and the other stuff?

 

[.Gerdis]

I agree but in IU's case, there were other comments made by players in interviews or podcasts, social media that it really was them against the fans, who were complaining during some losing streaks.

Fans can’t have fun?

Who cares if this forum is positive or negative? Don’t they have free throws to practice or NIL to spend?

 

[jopajackson]

I agree but in IU's case, there were other comments made by players in interviews or podcasts, social media that it really was them against the fans, who were complaining during some losing streaks.

This is a tough situation. I understand both sides of it, but last year some fans inside of Assembly Hall booed Galloway when missing a free throw because he was shooting so poorly from the line. It was obviously in his head last year, and you could clearly see that he had no confidence when stepping to the line. It's not too much to expect players to make their free throws at a decent clip, but booing them when they miss is a bit over the top. Indiana fans can be a bit obnoxious and spoiled at times in my opinion.

 

[IUNorth]

Was that the season they were all fighting with randos on instagram? Pencil neck and the other stuff?

Maybe...I hadn't put the 'Indiana v Everybody' tag line together with all that, honestly. Bashing players is pretty iffy, for me. Which is why I'd focus my attention on Woodson. IU fans shouldn't embrace mediocrity. That's what he's produced, thus far.

 

[Tammany Hall]

I've never heard of Indiana vs Everybody, but trying to circle your team's wagons and pitch it as "us against the world" is one of the oldest plays in the playbook, and is employed on just about every sports team. That's hardly unique to IU teams or fans.

Yea a lot of schools have their school vs everyone merch.

 

[IUNorth]

This is a tough situation. I understand both sides of it, but last year some fans inside of Assembly Hall booed Galloway when missing a free throw because he was shooting so poorly from the line. It was obviously in his head last year, and you could clearly see that he had no confidence when stepping to the line. It's not too much to expect players to make their free throws at a decent clip, but booing them when they miss is a bit over the top. Indiana fans can be a bit obnoxious and spoiled at times in my opinion.

This is why bashing the players is uncomfortable. Booing a player for missing free throws, is awful, and shouldn't happen. But sitting back and wildly cheering on mediocrity, shouldn't be expected either.

 

[IndyResident16]

Why? The first half didnt happen?

Let us know when college basketball games end after 20 minutes.

 

[Vern Pain]

This is why bashing the players is uncomfortable. Booing a player for missing free throws, is awful, and shouldn't happen. But sitting back and wildly cheering on mediocrity, shouldn't be expected either.

Just my $.02. I enjoy your posts. You lean into statistics and analytical stuff far more that a couple people in this forum who are undoubtedly hoping that a failed season materializes as quickly as possible. I enjoy your commentary on Indiana High School basketball. I'm kind of confused as to how someone would characterize you as a mindless hater. Just my $.02. carry on😁

 

[.Gerdis]

This is why bashing the players is uncomfortable. Booing a player for missing free throws, is awful, and shouldn't happen. But sitting back and wildly cheering on mediocrity, shouldn't be expected either.

I agree regarding bashing players.

(however they can stay away from a fan forum. Booing is a little different)

 

[IndyResident16]

My contention, which seems verified by now, is that these "slow starts", or bad finishes, or long stretches of un inspired play, are a by product of the system Woodson has chosen to continue to run, AND how he coaches and prepares his teams on a day to day basis.

What makes it all more frustrating is there are games here and there like the one at UT. And then stretches within most games where there's really great, beautiful basketball being played.

I guess I could just enjoy the good stretches when they come, and turn a blind eye on the bad ones. I'm certainly guilty of being more pessimistic about it all. But its those bad stretches that are keeping IU basketball from reaching its obvious potential.

Not sure how much college basketball you’ve watched this year outside IU, but a lot of teams have started “slow”. This is the by-product of turning over your roster with so many guys. IU has 3 new starters and 6 total guys who are new to the rotation. Alabama, who many consider to be the best team in the country, has looked less than stellar beating Arkansas St and McNeese St by single digits. Villanova has already lost to Columbia. Hell, even Purdue who didn’t exercise the portal at all is struggling and it’s because they’re playing a bunch of freshman/guys who weren’t really in the rotation last year.

It’s going to take a couple of games to get this stuff figured out. That’s why you open with SIUE and EIU.

 

[bsmitty08]

Let us know when college basketball games end after 20 minutes.

So you think Woody is a good coach?

 

[BA47591]

I fear this will be the year we look back on and say, " what a fn shame." We have a tremendous 1-8 on this team and we have a 12 loss coaching staff. So in Mid-March after a win in the tournament, finishing 5-6th in the conference, the Mullins family explaining to anyone that will listen why he wouldn't come to IU, we will be moving on.

Woody can't say he wasn't given the resources or talent to get the job done though. That's what this year is about. Boo hoo proofing Woodys departure and making the position known as a top 4 NIL school for the elite in stature coaches. My guess will be big game hunting with Oats and Pearl with May and Beard in the mix. Pearl is probably our next coach.

 

[IndyResident16]

So you think Woody is a good coach?

I think Woodson's fine and you sure as hell won't catch me dead giving out dire proclamations during the first half of the 2nd game of the year leaving myself opened to get dunked on such as yourself. You show your ass every single time you post.

 

[IndyResident16]

You believe otherwise? Please, enlighten me: How has Woody's tenure been a success?

I'll wait...

Is Woody's tenure over you mindless dumbf***?

 

[bsmitty08]

I think Woodson's fine and you sure as hell won't catch me dead giving out dire proclamations during the first half of the 2nd game of the year leaving myself opened to get dunked on such as yourself. You show your ass every single time you post.

Calm down dude. Honest question…why is he “fine”?
What’s your expectations for fine?
I watch a ton of basketball, we look talented in areas but poorly coached. Fire away if you disagree but I don’t think I’m wrong here.

 

[bsmitty08]

Is Woody's tenure over you mindless dumbf***?

You are an angry elf

 

[Imsowyctcwuzbetta]

You believe otherwise? Please, enlighten me: How has Woody's tenure been a success?

I'll wait...

Why bother.... Your opinion and rants won't change... BTW 2-0 is one success.

 

[IndyResident16]

I've never heard of Indiana vs Everybody, but trying to circle your team's wagons and pitch it as "us against the world" is one of the oldest plays in the playbook, and is employed on just about every sports team. That's hardly unique to IU teams or fans.

Miller Kopp's tagline is absolutely about IU vs a sect of the fanbase.

 

[Imsowyctcwuzbetta]

Calm down dude. Honest question…why is he “fine”?
What’s your expectations for fine?
I watch a ton of basketball, we look talented in areas but poorly coached. Fire away if you disagree but I don’t think I’m wrong here.

Go to the boilers... Your true home

 

[IndyResident16]

Calm down dude. Honest question…why is he “fine”?
What’s your expectations for fine?
I watch a ton of basketball, we look talented in areas but poorly coached. Fire away if you disagree but I don’t think I’m wrong here.

I expect this team to compete for a B10 title and make the 2nd weekend of the tournament. A single half of basketball against EIU hasn't changed my mind. I understand the ebbs and flows of college basketball and the nuisances that go with implementing a bunch of new faces. Clearly you don't. Your celebratory "gotcha's" that aren't actually "gotcha's" before the games even end show your true colors. You're a miserable prick that I'd tell to go root for Ivy Tech, your Alma Mater, but they don't have a team. Starting to make sense why you root for Purdue.

 

[Tammany Hall]

I fear this will be the year we look back on and say, " what a fn shame." We have a tremendous 1-8 on this team and we have a 12 loss coaching staff. So in Mid-March after a win in the tournament, finishing 5-6th in the conference, the Mullins family explaining to anyone that will listen why he wouldn't come to IU, we will be moving on.

Woody can't say he wasn't given the resources or talent to get the job done though. That's what this year is about. Boo hoo proofing Woodys departure and making the position known as a top 4 NIL school for the elite in stature coaches. My guess will be big game hunting with Oats and Pearl with May and Beard in the mix. Pearl is probably our next coach.

I doubt we get any of those coaches whenever the time comes — some aren’t a fit here and some won’t leave their job.

 

[bsmitty08]

I expect this team to compete for a B10 title and make the 2nd weekend of the tournament. A single half of basketball against EIU hasn't changed my mind. I understand the ebbs and flows of college basketball and the nuisances that go with implementing a bunch of new faces. Clearly you don't. Your celebratory "gotcha's" that aren't actually "gotcha's" before the games even end show your true colors. You're a miserable prick that I'd tell to go root for Ivy Tech, your Alma Mater, but they don't have a team. Starting to make sense why you root for Purdue.

Haha soooo angry and yet soooo wrong

 

[IndyResident16]

I doubt we get any of those coaches whenever the time comes — some aren’t a fit here and some won’t leave their job.

Ya people that think Pearl, Oats, Drew etc are leaving their cushy jobs to come coach IU have lost their freaking minds. There will be a day in time where Woodson is no longer the coach and a search will take place. And that search will ultimately net a hire that will be met with boos and animosity. And it'll be from the sect of the crowd that gives this great and passionate fan base a bad name. And that's unfortunate.