Infrastructure plan
- Thread starter Marvin the Martian
- Start date
where in the world today is hi speed rail succeeding, that regular rail wasn't succeeding pre hi speed rail?
just curious if there are such places.
no clue. i take amtrak here to the wineries and it's fun, but a short trip. took amtrak to a few cards cubs series and got stuck so that what should have been a 5 hour train ride ended up 8 hours. would never do it again.
hi speed rail between vegas and la would be a blast. tourists i think would love it. i could also see hi speed rail between la and san fran for business and fun. i thought elon musk was doing something in this vein
and who gives a f*ck. we're on democrat time. if we're going to spend like drunks let's get some fun shit
No, I don't and it certainly shouldn't be with Amtrak. Have you seen a list of their disasters? Flying a plane, despite being much more difficult, is far safer it seems.
List of accidents on Amtrak - Wikipedia
If you want a Hyperloop or fast train, Amtrak isn't the right group to build and operate it.
Also, anyone that has lived between DC and Boston knows that the train isn't much cheaper than airfare, if any.
California has an ongoing project for a “bullet train” from SF-LA. I haven’t heard much about it in recent years, other than the cost is astronomical. I think they’ve been working/planning phase one for quite a while. The first phase has an estimated cost of over $4 billion and climbing. It’s projected completion, if it really ever happens, is 12-15 years away. That’s just phase one.
It sounds fun, but damn that’s expensive. I’m not sure if it’s cost effective, because you can hop on a Southwest flight to LA every hour on the hour from San Francisco, Oakland, or San Jose for around $100 round trip.
yeah but morrison think about it. imagine if it's like bart. how cool would that be to just walk up buy you're ticket and you're in LA in a little over an hour. no tsa bullshit. none of the aggravation that attends airports etc. you're in la. what do you want to do tonight. let's gamble. bam in vegas in 45 minutes. home the same night. would change so much. you could live in la and work in san fran. be no difft than the commute many already face.
it all turns on convenience. whether it'd be like walking up to a bart or run like an airport with tsa and tickets and check in and all the misery
Yeah, I hear ya. But the bullet train will supposedly “only” go 220 MPH, which would take roughly 2 hours to get to LA. The plane ride is only 50 minutes. I’m for it in spirit though if they get some more speed in that train!
super lame. the one japan's proposing is well over 300 mph. ours is like a pinto compared to that
No, I don't and it certainly shouldn't be with Amtrak. Have you seen a list of their disasters? Flying a plane, despite being much more difficult, is far safer it seems.
List of accidents on Amtrak - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
If you want a Hyperloop or fast train, Amtrak isn't the right group to build and operate it.
Also, anyone that has lived between DC and Boston knows that the train isn't much cheaper than airfare, if any.
I'll give you that.
I was looking more at Japan's bullet trains that can now go 350 using a combo of wheels to get started then levitates using magnets.
They've never had one fatality.
I have no idea how much it costs.
Our local rail is $2.
Plus you've got much more room, even sleeper cars.
I've got a northline rail arm that is five minutes from my house with a huge public parking lot.
My only bitch is it arrives once in the morning and once at night.
But yeah, park the car, buy a $2 ticket and your off.
If we could get these things to go like in Japan. Being levitated on magnets is an extremely smooth ride. They've never had an accident. Now you can go 200 mph like you said to Vegas. Party hard. Take the train back that night.
Admittingly that's way too simplistic of a view but....I could see it carving a niche and being used.
Damn we used to build really cool, really big shit in this country. Does the space program even get started in today’s world. Look how much that lost. What about Ford. They wasted gazillions of dollars just to beat Ferrari back in the 60’s. Didn’t sell a single GT40 until the 2000’s. You want American pride back. Build this.
Yep. He's a weirdo but I suspect most of the true visionaries are (think Steve Jobs too). I'm not saying we don't build things anymore, but at the level of the space program (think Gemini/Apollo)? Just trying to think of something most Americans could agree on would be beneficial and then go build it. Could be a transportation network, broadband network or health care system.
Large, bold projects have a problem on both sides of the aisle. CO will point out that environmental regulation makes it very difficult if not impossible. And that can be right.
The other side of it is from the right who is convinced no government is a good government. Let's look back to two giant US projects. One was the transcontinental railroad. The US government granted tremendous amounts of land to the companies to build the railroad. Some lands were used for tracks; the rest was sold for capital. The other is the interstate system, a massive government program. Many conservatives are convinced there is too much waste and fraud in the government to do such a thing today. My question, has anyone studied how much waste and fraud was in the interstate (or railroad) systems? But we did them.
We almost certainly have too much red tape for bold projects, but we almost certainly distrust each other too much too.
Agreed on all fronts. That damn railroad. In 1900 Stl was the 4 largest city. Primed to host the world’s fair. We backed steamboats and Chicago backed rail and look where the two ended up
I suspect a lot of projects were laden with pork and other inefficiencies throughout the last 125 years. Back then though I also suspect "transparency" as it relates to government was limited. Or, at least, much more so than it is today. Throw in Watergate and various "Roads to Nowhere" and here we are.
Would anybody disagree that some functions of Congress would actual work better behind a curtain? It's a slippery slope but people could agree on things and not suffer the consequences of doing so.
Don't about half of our Westerns involve a politician trying to steal land ahead of the railroad coming through? I wonder how accurate that was? I do see that a congressman of the era, Oakes Ames, was convicted for bribery in selling some fellow congressman shares in the Union Pacific project well under value. The funny part, no congressman was convicted for receiving said bribe. Things haven't changed.
Financing the Transcontinental Railroad | AP US History Study Guide from The Gilder Lehrman Institute of American History
The first transcontinental railroad, built between 1864 and 1869, was the greatest construction project of its era...
ap.gilderlehrman.org
Oakes Ames - Wikipedia
As long as we don't have another Rock Ridge episode.Don't about half of our Westerns involve a politician trying to steal land ahead of the railroad coming through? I wonder how accurate that was? I do see that a congressman of the era, Oakes Ames, was convicted for bribery in selling some fellow congressman shares in the Union Pacific project well under value. The funny part, no congressman was convicted for receiving said bribe. Things haven't changed.
Financing the Transcontinental Railroad | AP US History Study Guide from The Gilder Lehrman Institute of American History
The first transcontinental railroad, built between 1864 and 1869, was the greatest construction project of its era...Oakes Ames - Wikipedia
Believe me, I wanted to bring up the William j Lepetomaine Thruway as another example...
I don't disagree, to an extent. But remember how much smaller Japan is than the U.S., so the cost is going to be massively high. That being said, I think routes like SF to LA, Chicago to MSP, DC to NYC are good places to invest in travel infrastructure.
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anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
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Every time I check Amtrak prices I’m blown away. Ridiculously high.No, I don't and it certainly shouldn't be with Amtrak. Have you seen a list of their disasters? Flying a plane, despite being much more difficult, is far safer it seems.
List of accidents on Amtrak - Wikipedia
If you want a Hyperloop or fast train, Amtrak isn't the right group to build and operate it.
Also, anyone that has lived between DC and Boston knows that the train isn't much cheaper than airfare, if any.
I wonder why it is? I would love to take the train, but it is expensive. Back in the day it seemed every college kid went to Europe and used a Eurorail pass to get around. So trains must not need to be high.
I assume the ridership numbers are low and as a niche, it is more expensive than it needs to be. If high speed rail existed, would that change?
We use Amtrak for the wineries instead of driving. It’s mostly empty. It’s great for that hour trip from Stl. But yeah I suspect it’s mostly niche
A 350mph train would be a game changer for so many things if it was easy and convenient and reasonably priced. I’d far prefer it to flying
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anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Guest
Gas is very expensive in Europe. Double that of America even though we bitch and moan about prices. They’re incentivized to use rail which drives down prices.
tons of wineries. really fun. shitty wine. like sugary wine but still super fun. great views and tours and dirt cheap. octoberfest is fantastic. would be a good little trip for you and your wife. hermann missouri. there are also a bunch in an old town called saint genevieve. but hermann is better.
I thought you might be referring to the wineries in S. Ill. Does Amtrak go from St. Louis to Carbondale?
It does. I’ve never been or stopped in Carbondale. Taking the train for Cards cubs was a big thing for a while and super fun. Then just kind of died out for some reason.
Hermann is great. You get off the train at a trolley stop and the trolley takes you from winery to winery
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anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Guest
Back in the ancient days, Indiana was big in the Interurban, most of central Indiana was connected by rail. My family spoke of it often. I would go to Indy far more if I could just hop on a train and get there. Especially if Indy had anything close to a mass transit system. But just going to the Vic or the downtown museums would be a snap.
that's really cool and i agree. i have no clue as to the economics of it because i trust it contemplates something very different than what we see with the L in chicago or metrolink in saint louis where it's transporting passengers 10 or less miles from work spot home to or to lunch or whatever
There are a couple of decent wineries there, too. Takes the edge off.
It used to take mass quantities of Colt 45 to take the harsh off Mr. Natural.
