Indiana's Terrible Defense

[daddyhoosier]

I know that Twitter is not exactly the arbiter of all truth but every time anyone puts together a decent drive on Indiana you see, "This defense if TERRIBLE." Or, "Garbage D!" Or, "We need a new Defensive Coordinator!"

I am not against people having high standards for defense obviously but we do need to be realistic about what 'good' defense looks like in this highly offensive era. Zach Osterman from the Indy Star said something a week ago on Crimson Cast that I have been saying for a couple of years. This isn't a direct quote but the essence of what he said is that many of us need to re-calibrate our expectations when it comes to defense.

Most defenses are going to give up yards he said. Only the elite defenses chock full of five star recruits are going to shut teams down and prevent them from gaining even yards. For the rest of us the focus needs to be on situational defense and the red zone.

Offenses have become incredibly efficient plus the rules have evolved over time to give offenses an advantage.

With all of that said, Indiana's defense in 2019 - which many have repeatedly called terrible - ranks 22nd in FBS in points allowed per game and 18th in yards allowed per game.

Obviously there are many things that can be improved upon still - I'm not saying the D has arrived. But I am saying that if people think we're only going to allow 137 yards and 11.8 points per game they probably have unrealistic expectations.

 

[rikki-tikka-tava]

Fair enough though those stats would be more impressive/germane if they were qualified by a multiplier for opposition offensive strength. - pretty sure IU's schedule strength (or lack) has something to do with its lofty 'top-twenty' defensive ratings...

On a side note, it's "chock" full that you're after.

 

[daddyhoosier]

Thanks for the edit, I made the change. I knew that Indiana's soft schedule would be instantly referenced. I am interested to see where they stand after playing Penn State and Michigan for sure but the larger point is - regardless of who you have played - you can't call a defense that is ranked in the top 22 in scoring and yardage terrible. I don't care what kind of schedule strength gymnastics you come up with.

 

[IUCol]

No. our defense is not as good as our offense...but that is still miles away from calling them terrible. We will see what we have across the board in two weeks...but the D was good enough to get us to 7-2..that aint horrible...vbg

 

[ElMeson]

No. our defense is not as good as our offense...but that is still miles away from calling them terrible. We will see what we have across the board in two weeks...but the D was good enough to get us to 7-2..that aint horrible...vbg

In our two losses we gave up 51 and 40. Actually the Defense gave up 42 and 33.(also the second most points MSU has scored this year) So there is some reason to be skeptical of the defense. I do think this is a confident team and no stats can measure that.

 

[Daydreamer]

Thanks for the edit, I made the change. I knew that Indiana's soft schedule would be instantly referenced. I am interested to see where they stand after playing Penn State and Michigan for sure but the larger point is - regardless of who you have played - you can't call a defense that is ranked in the top 22 in scoring and yardage terrible. I don't care what kind of schedule strength gymnastics you come up with.

S&P+, which factors in quality of opponent, ranks our D #36. Also, since you mentioned situational defense- we've given up 27 4th quarter points all year and have six shutout 4th quarters in nine games. Regardless of what the stats say, you can win a lot of games shutting opponents down in Q4.

 

[toastedbread]

In our two losses we gave up 51 and 40. Actually the Defense gave up 42 and 33.(also the second most points MSU has scored this year) So there is some reason to be skeptical of the defense. I do think this is a confident team and no stats can measure that.

I think the shutouts and near shutsouts skew the statistics heavily. Everyone with a pulse has put up boatloads of points on this D.

 

[Daydreamer]

I think the shutouts and near shutsouts skew the statistics heavily. Everyone with a pulse has put up boatloads of points on this D.

Yes, if you ignore all the times they played great, they're terrible. Obviously.

 

[toastedbread]

Yes, if you ignore all the times they played great, they're terrible. Obviously.

They've played great in all of the games decided by 30+ points against offenses that couldn't get out of their own way. Games that were totally non-competitive.

 

[Bowlmania]

I know that Twitter is not exactly the arbiter of all truth but every time anyone puts together a decent drive on Indiana you see, "This defense if TERRIBLE." Or, "Garbage D!" Or, "We need a new Defensive Coordinator!"

I am not against people having high standards for defense obviously but we do need to be realistic about what 'good' defense looks like in this highly offensive era. Zach Osterman from the Indy Star said something a week ago on Crimson Cast that I have been saying for a couple of years. This isn't a direct quote but the essence of what he said is that many of us need to re-calibrate our expectations when it comes to defense.

Most defenses are going to give up yards he said. Only the elite defenses chock full of five star recruits are going to shut teams down and prevent them from gaining even yards. For the rest of us the focus needs to be on situational defense and the red zone.

Offenses have become incredibly efficient plus the rules have evolved over time to give offenses an advantage.

With all of that said, Indiana's defense in 2019 - which many have repeatedly called terrible - ranks 22nd in FBS in points allowed per game and 18th in yards allowed per game.

Obviously there are many things that can be improved upon still - I'm not saying the D has arrived. But I am saying that if people think we're only going to allow 137 yards and 11.8 points per game they probably have unrealistic expectations.

I understand the point of your post but, as an IU football fan, I wish you had titled the thread differently.

 

[IUCol]

In our two losses we gave up 51 and 40. Actually the Defense gave up 42 and 33.(also the second most points MSU has scored this year) So there is some reason to be skeptical of the defense. I do think this is a confident team and no stats can measure that.[/QUOTE}

I thinkyou kinda miss the point some are trying to make...common around here...no the defense is not great but it is NOT terrible...

 

[Daydreamer]

They've played great in all of the games decided by 30+ points against offenses that couldn't get out of their own way. Games that were totally non-competitive.

Can't you say the same about every defense? They play better against worse competition and worse against better competition?

 

[Sir_Saucy]

Would say defense is average, had really really good games against Rutger, Northwestern, Eastern Illinois, and UCONN who happen to be exceptionally bad on offense. Been about average every other game.

 

[76-1]

Would say defense is average, had really really good games against Rutger, Northwestern, Eastern Illinois, and UCONN who happen to be exceptionally bad on offense. Been about average every other game.

I'm just curious as to why you think any of us care what a p u fan thinks of our football team... I'm also curious as to why you never post over on your own site... Strange...

 

[turney333]

In our two losses we gave up 51 and 40. Actually the Defense gave up 42 and 33.(also the second most points MSU has scored this year) So there is some reason to be skeptical of the defense. I do think this is a confident team and no stats can measure that.

(first burn the OSU tape)

The defense has shown that it gets better in the 2nd half. Maryland only score 7 of its 28 in the 2nd half. It was 10 of 31 for Nebraska.

Even against MSU, the defense played well in the 2nd half. Of the MSU's 19 2nd half points, one TD was by MSU's defense on the last play of the game, and the other TD was set up from punting in bad field position and poor special teams play giving MSU the ball on the 26 yard line. Only 3 of the 2nd half point were on the defense.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

S&P+, which factors in quality of opponent, ranks our D #36. Also, since you mentioned situational defense- we've given up 27 4th quarter points all year and have six shutout 4th quarters in nine games. Regardless of what the stats say, you can win a lot of games shutting opponents down in Q4.

There you go, that sounds about right. A better than average D. And the poster above who says we've played better in 2nd halves is also right.

My personal view is that the front 7 has played better, overall, than we had a right to expect. Both areas appeared to lack talent, depth & experience before the season started. My frustration with the D has mainly been with the defensive backfield, just because I think we have some guys, quite a few actually, that are unusually talented there, and not just for Indiana.........but they haven't always played like it.

 

[mrhighlife]

The defense is suspect at times. Alot of times. But they are young and very athletic. Loads of talent. They seem to wear on teams and get better as the game goes on. Fortunately we have an offense that can get ahead or at least keep pace early on. That helps a young inexperienced defense stay confident throughout the game.

 

[cshartle123]

It’s by no means a dominant defense, but they have been serviceable. They got completely rolled against OSU and MSU. Those are the games they have to fix. It didn’t matter how many points we scored on MSU, we couldn’t stop them.

 

[Crossblock]

On defense, we are not the shutdown defense of Ohio State or Alabama. We give up some yardage. But we are not the defense of several years ago. The MSU game just burns me because we didn't play defense (particularly at the end) as we are capable of. But this isn't the Kevin Wilson days where we are an open toll gate from the 20 to the 20. We are stopping people before they get deep into our territory and forcing punts or bad plays

 

[RBB89]

I think the shutouts and near shutsouts skew the statistics heavily. Everyone with a pulse has put up boatloads of points on this D.

Think about what you just typed.

 

[Indianaftw]

Think about what you just typed.

No Sh!t the defenses the past two years would have mede terrible mistakes and given up 17-20-24 to the teams we shut out or held below 10. The osu game was a farce for two reasons, one we weren't prepared and could not even line up on time, and two osu slams everyone! Since then we have improved every week and next year we have only 4 seniors in the two deep out of 22 players leaving. I know NW has a horrible offense but the swarm they spoke of earlier this year? We saw it. We've had 2 shutouts and two where we only gave up 3. Exciting stuff!

 

[Bowlmania]

IU's defense is yielding just 310.2 yards per game, good for 18th nationally in total defense. We're giving up an average of 20 points per game, good for 22nd nationally in scoring defense.

We're starting to resemble a complete football team.

 

[IndyIUFan66]

So the MSU game sticks in my mind as the D has a chance to make a stop, send usbtonOT and go get a huge win. They couldn’t stop MSU from own 25 with 2 min to play. Was huge body blow.

The other issue since game one (though believe it’s gotten better) is Womack calling plays right up to the snap with guys looking to the sidelines instead of lining up and playing FB! That has looked like inexperience & lack of confidence from the DC to me.

No IU hasn’t played toughest schedule but that also doesn’t mean defense hasn’t been improving either. Look at Mullen as an example. He went from minimal play early to now starter and probably best CB. DL & DE improvement getting pressure. LB play better (McFadden not missing as many tackles)

So as we head I to final three games, following a bye week, I look forward to seeing a D with a little nasty streak. To beat PSU will need some turnovers and stops. At home against UM, with a home crowd I could see them being pumped up and once again playing them tough. And in Bucket game, I’m not sold on PU OLine and think they can send the house at the walk on QB and have him running for his life and I to some mistakes.

I see a lot of young, improving talent on the defense. I’m not sure yet if I see a young DC whiz or someone bit over his head with good fortune of HC as his mentor/godfather in coaching? But my hope is the defense will continue to grow and thrive now and ahead.

 

[Indianaftw]

So the MSU game sticks in my mind as the D has a chance to make a stop, send usbtonOT and go get a huge win. They couldn’t stop MSU from own 25 with 2 min to play. Was huge body blow.

The other issue since game one (though believe it’s gotten better) is Womack calling plays right up to the snap with guys looking to the sidelines instead of lining up and playing FB! That has looked like inexperience & lack of confidence from the DC to me.

No IU hasn’t played toughest schedule but that also doesn’t mean defense hasn’t been improving either. Look at Mullen as an example. He went from minimal play early to now starter and probably best CB. DL & DE improvement getting pressure. LB play better (McFadden not missing as many tackles)

So as we head I to final three games, following a bye week, I look forward to seeing a D with a little nasty streak. To beat PSU will need some turnovers and stops. At home against UM, with a home crowd I could see them being pumped up and once again playing them tough. And in Bucket game, I’m not sold on PU OLine and think they can send the house at the walk on QB and have him running for his life and I to some mistakes.

I see a lot of young, improving talent on the defense. I’m not sure yet if I see a young DC whiz or someone bit over his head with good fortune of HC as his mentor/godfather in coaching? But my hope is the defense will continue to grow and thrive now and ahead.

You know I have been wondering if Wommack would be better off in the booth. He would have a much better view of the offense and be able to make quick calls to someone down on the field. Its like they are waiting for something up in the booth and then scrambling to get the play in.

 

[IUPaterade724]

Of people think the tangibles of this defense is not solid I suggest watching the last decade of football and then take look at how improved we have become. We don't have the smartest fans with itchy trigger fingers (my self included). But overall all our defense has been good this year. For the most part. Or we wouldn't be 7-2.

 

[toastedbread]

No Sh!t the defenses the past two years would have mede terrible mistakes and given up 17-20-24 to the teams we shut out or held below 10. The osu game was a farce for two reasons, one we weren't prepared and could not even line up on time, and two osu slams everyone! Since then we have improved every week and next year we have only 4 seniors in the two deep out of 22 players leaving. I know NW has a horrible offense but the swarm they spoke of earlier this year? We saw it. We've had 2 shutouts and two where we only gave up 3. Exciting stuff!

So the MSU game sticks in my mind as the D has a chance to make a stop, send usbtonOT and go get a huge win. They couldn’t stop MSU from own 25 with 2 min to play. Was huge body blow.

The other issue since game one (though believe it’s gotten better) is Womack calling plays right up to the snap with guys looking to the sidelines instead of lining up and playing FB! That has looked like inexperience & lack of confidence from the DC to me.

No IU hasn’t played toughest schedule but that also doesn’t mean defense hasn’t been improving either. Look at Mullen as an example. He went from minimal play early to now starter and probably best CB. DL & DE improvement getting pressure. LB play better (McFadden not missing as many tackles)

So as we head I to final three games, following a bye week, I look forward to seeing a D with a little nasty streak. To beat PSU will need some turnovers and stops. At home against UM, with a home crowd I could see them being pumped up and once again playing them tough. And in Bucket game, I’m not sold on PU OLine and think they can send the house at the walk on QB and have him running for his life and I to some mistakes.

I see a lot of young, improving talent on the defense. I’m not sure yet if I see a young DC whiz or someone bit over his head with good fortune of HC as his mentor/godfather in coaching? But my hope is the defense will continue to grow and thrive now and ahead.

Nebraska put up 31 on this D. Most in their last 5 games. They were on 3rd string QB. Maryland put up 28. They only managed 14 against PUke. That's the most points they've put up since that 63 against cuse, excluding their Rutgers game. MSU scored their most points in big ten play against us, and 2nd most on the year after they clobbered Western Michigan.

Yea it's great that we can shut out teams in games that were never going to be competitive, but the truth is that against an offense with a heartbeat, this D is very mediocre. The offense has been carrying this team all year.

 

[Indianaftw]

Nebraska put up 31 on this D. Most in their last 5 games. They were on 3rd string QB. Maryland put up 28. They only managed 14 against PUke. That's the most points they've put up since that 63 against cuse, excluding their Rutgers game. MSU scored their most points in big ten play against us, and 2nd most on the year after they clobbered Western Michigan.

Yea it's great that we can shut out teams in games that weren't competitive, but the truth is that against an offense with a heartbeat, this D is very mediocre. The offense has been carrying this team all year.

Agree, but there is improvement along the way which is all we can ask for. The NW game they seemed to be extremely confident and a step quicker to the ball.

penn state has been a machine and michy is really improved. Well see...

 

[toastedbread]

Agree, but there is improvement along the way which is all we can ask for. The NW game they seemed to be extremely confident and a step quicker to the ball.

penn state has been a machine and michy is really improved. Well see...

Northwestern's offense is nearly as bad as Rutgers. If we perform decent against anyone with a heartbeat I'll take it seriously. Superior peformance in non-competitive games is meaningless imo because who cares if you win by 20 or 30.

I agree that PSU and Michigan will be very telling.

 

[IUCol]

So the MSU game sticks in my mind as the D has a chance to make a stop, send usbtonOT and go get a huge win. They couldn’t stop MSU from own 25 with 2 min to play. Was huge body blow.

The other issue since game one (though believe it’s gotten better) is Womack calling plays right up to the snap with guys looking to the sidelines instead of lining up and playing FB! That has looked like inexperience & lack of confidence from the DC to me.

No IU hasn’t played toughest schedule but that also doesn’t mean defense hasn’t been improving either. Look at Mullen as an example. He went from minimal play early to now starter and probably best CB. DL & DE improvement getting pressure. LB play better (McFadden not missing as many tackles)

So as we head I to final three games, following a bye week, I look forward to seeing a D with a little nasty streak. To beat PSU will need some turnovers and stops. At home against UM, with a home crowd I could see them being pumped up and once again playing them tough. And in Bucket game, I’m not sold on PU OLine and think they can send the house at the walk on QB and have him running for his life and I to some mistakes.

I see a lot of young, improving talent on the defense. I’m not sure yet if I see a young DC whiz or someone bit over his head with good fortune of HC as his mentor/godfather in coaching? But my hope is the defense will continue to grow and thrive now and ahead.

Excellent post...kudos. Our defense has been like a jigsaw puzzle with pieces that change and shift position...plug and play sort of thing. We are not the defense that started the season...nor the defense we will become. We are in transition, a tough spot for any team...building. But look what they have done...the youth movement cannot be denied nor its results. We have better and deeper talent than I can remember for a very long time.

But people ask...is it enough? It has been just enough to get us to 7-2...might be 8-1 if many poster comments about the MSU game are right...I am not so sure but that doesn't matter now. The defense will be sorely tested by PSU...they are good...darn it...look how quickly they went back to the top...nice to have most of the state all your own to recruit...(sorry Pitt). But this game will point to our strengths and our weaknesses pretty quickly too but it will not be the measure of our season, just where we need to go to knock another of the items off Allen's to-do list...vbg.

UM presents a different challenge and opportunity. We can win in Happy Valley...but I see our best chance for an "upset" win (did I say that?) against the Wolverines. And that isnt a huge chance, just a chance. A loss in both games changes very little about our season, as painful as they may be to watch. I can hear the prognosticators now..."Agog! We are terrible...worst defense in history...Ramsey is a loser...cant win without Penix (no blame on you young man)...blah blah blah.

Close this season with a nice win against an improving PU team, and that is a breakout season...in my book anyway.

And this defense...so maligned...can stand tall as men and great rep for IU FB...imo

 

[Bowlmania]

Nebraska put up 31 on this D. Most in their last 5 games. They were on 3rd string QB. Maryland put up 28. They only managed 14 against PUke. That's the most points they've put up since that 63 against cuse, excluding their Rutgers game. MSU scored their most points in big ten play against us, and 2nd most on the year after they clobbered Western Michigan.

Yea it's great that we can shut out teams in games that were never going to be competitive, but the truth is that against an offense with a heartbeat, this D is very mediocre. The offense has been carrying this team all year.

The Michigan State game was a long time ago, and their point total is deceiving because the last touchdown came on a fumble recovery as we were lateralling the ball all over the field in a desperate attempt to score as time expired.

Nebraska's final touchdown was gift-wrapped from IU as a result of two personal fouls that gave them a first down and 30 yards.

Maryland's 28 points? I'm fine with that. With our offense, we're going to win most games where we yield 28 points or less.

This is an above average defense that has gotten better as the season's gone on, and makes stop when it has to. We let the Michigan State game slip away, but that's the only one, and if that game were played now instead of in September I have little doubt we'd win.

We're seeing playmakers emerge on defense for the first time in a long time. We're making stops at critical times. We've gotten some game-changing takeaways. That's the sign of a defense that's making a difference. We're becoming a complete team, and the reason we're 7-2 is because we're playing well on both sides of the ball. Sure, there's room for improvement, but that doesn't negate the vast gains that have been made. Dismissive comments like "the offense has been carrying this team all year" are simply inaccurate.

 

[IUCol]

Our Special Teams haven't exactly been woofing it all over the field either. We have great kickers and our contain is getting better along with the tackling...and we have a kid that can really return the ball...imo

 

[td75]

This defense has some potential, and that's the beautiful thing. If you look at the kids coming back next year, the idea that they'll certainly be pretty good has merit. I'm not too sure who they're losing off this year's roster, but the returners will be solid.

People are quick to bash this defense because of their early performance against OSU. That is not fair as OSU has scored in abundance on every single opponent they've faced. I would pick the Michigan State game to pick on, we blew that one.

If this defense can keep it respectable with an opportunity for Indiana to win versus PSU and Michigan, that's a sign of MAJOR progress. The Purdue game should be a golden opportunity for this defense to shut down an injury riddled team and return the Bucket to its more natural home in Southern Indiana.

I expect next year's defense to be even better. Hell, with any luck, they'll be WAY better and we'll come up Roses!!!

 

[toastedbread]

The Michigan State game was a long time ago, and their point total is deceiving because the last touchdown came on a fumble recovery as we were lateralling the ball all over the field in a desperate attempt to score as time expired.

Nebraska's final touchdown was gift-wrapped from IU as a result of two personal fouls that gave them a first down and 30 yards.

Maryland's 28 points? I'm fine with that. With our offense, we're going to win most games where we yield 28 points or less.

This is an above average defense that has gotten better as the season's gone on, and makes stop when it has to. We let the Michigan State game slip away, but that's the only one, and if that game were played now instead of in September I have little doubt we'd win.

We're seeing playmakers emerge on defense for the first time in a long time. We're making stops at critical times. We've gotten some game-changing takeaways. That's the sign of a defense that's making a difference. We're becoming a complete team, and the reason we're 7-2 is because we're playing well on both sides of the ball. Sure, there's room for improvement, but that doesn't negate the vast gains that have been made. Dismissive comments like "the offense has been carrying this team all year" are simply inaccurate.

It's not inaccurate. The offense is borderline elite. The defense is meh.

 

[Bowlmania]

It's not inaccurate. The offense is borderline elite. The defense is meh.

I've quoted NCAA stats over nine games. I can also point to SP+, an opponent-adjusted metric, which reflects that our D is 36th nationally. What are you relying on - - an eyeball test? If so, your vision is fuzzy.

When we had a great O and no D, during most of the Wilson years, our record reflected it -- 6-6 at best. We're 7-2 now because we finally have both an offense and a defense.

 

[Daydreamer]

The Michigan State game was a long time ago, and their point total is deceiving because the last touchdown came on a fumble recovery as we were lateralling the ball all over the field in a desperate attempt to score as time expired.

Nebraska's final touchdown was gift-wrapped from IU as a result of two personal fouls that gave them a first down and 30 yards.

Maryland's 28 points? I'm fine with that. With our offense, we're going to win most games where we yield 28 points or less.

This is an above average defense that has gotten better as the season's gone on, and makes stop when it has to. We let the Michigan State game slip away, but that's the only one, and if that game were played now instead of in September I have little doubt we'd win.

We're seeing playmakers emerge on defense for the first time in a long time. We're making stops at critical times. We've gotten some game-changing takeaways. That's the sign of a defense that's making a difference. We're becoming a complete team, and the reason we're 7-2 is because we're playing well on both sides of the ball. Sure, there's room for improvement, but that doesn't negate the vast gains that have been made. Dismissive comments like "the offense has been carrying this team all year" are simply inaccurate.

Looking at season scoring averages- we gave up 31 to Nebraska, who averages 26 (difference of 5), and 31 to MSU who averages 21. We've held every other team under their season scoring average when you take out defensive scores we gave up (OSU). The MSU game was the only real disappointment but they just played a murderers' row month against three of the best defenses in the country. I'll bet money their scoring average comes up before the end.
And to repeat- S&P+ ranks our D #36- not elite but not bad- and we've given up 27 4th quarter points with 6 shutout 4th quarters. Whatever else the stats say, with one exception, they've been nails when the game is on the line. I'll take that defense every day.

 

[Palmbeachhoosier]

I look forward to the end of the season and next year to see how things progress. Our defensive coordinator will have a year under his belt in the BIG. The youngsters will have another year of experience and another year of strength and conditioning. I would love to see another lockdown corner like Mullen and a great pass rusher. That could really send the defense over the top and make it really special. Until then I love how they have played of late especially in the second halves they have really made some great adjustments.

 

[Sir_Saucy]

I'm just curious as to why you think any of us care what a p u fan thinks of our football team... I'm also curious as to why you never post over on your own site... Strange...

So I am a Purdue fan because I posted the same thing as about 5 other people? Are they all Purdue fans too? Would be strange if I was on the Purdue site since I am not a Purdue fan. But w.e

 

[iubud]

Our defense struggles on first series. Teams often script the plays early. The offense moves at a faster pace and the defense gets what the other team has put together to have the greatest success. If our offense can keep the ball on their first drive, our defense can communicate what we can do to slow the offense down. As the game goes on, we are able to adjust and counter what they are doing and anticipate how they will counter our adjustments.

The in-game adjustments are easier when your head coach isn't the DC. Our improvement on D could be better preparation and getting our young players to see what is happening on the field and adjust while on the field.

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

As critical as I have been of the defense ( and I think pass defense is very suspect with our DBs - Mullen not included), this defense is light years ahead of the Wilson era, the Lynch era and the Cameron era.

IU finally started regarding that unit as something it actually needed to recruit to instead of cobbling together a lineup of our leftovers.

We have actually stopped some people in 3rd downs. I remember years where we couldn’t get off the field. We need to continually put a focus there. Would love to see some 4-star defensive linemen.