I googled Scott Dolson to see what kind of athletic experience he had

[jsenleo]

I agree. My point is that all that notwithstanding, it didn't translate to permanent elevation of IU football vs the rest of the Big Ten. There is no magic formula. Hiring coaches is a crapshoot. Today's "great hire" can be tomorrow's flop. Yet many on here expect recent ADs to be clairvoyant and find "the guy" to bring instant and permanent improvement. I was merely pointing out the double standard.

I understand what you're saying and you're right about it being a crapshoot and I agree about the past history, none of IU's ADs have had lasting success with fball coaches regardless of how they tried. However, history shows the biggest failure as an AD waa Frank Allen who was at the helm from 1955 thru 1961.... he hired Phil Dickens and then resigned not long after the NCAA laid down the hammer with the worst suspension in NCAA history (aside from SMU's).. that situation is what really put IU in the hole it keeps falling back into. I believe that after enduring Allen's ineptitude that Orwig and Floyd were looked upon as the second coming...... But that's not the exercise....

As far as expecting to find "the guy" who has vision.... I feel, like many posters here, that ever since the founding of the B1G Ten Network fifteen years ago the amount of money funneling in to college football has and is still growing exponentially and that IU hasn't kept up and is starting to slip further and further behind.

Yes, IU has updated some facilities and upped the ante for assistants but they remain below B1G or P5 average when it comes to spending on the football program. Plus, when they have stayed in-house that hasn't worked out either... as times they have proven to be the text book definition of the Peter Principle at work.

I believe that, IF... and that's a big IF.... IU can find an experienced and respected AD from a school with a football program that has a history of success, that IU could finally change its course. Someone who can help attract a higher caliber of coaches to IU.... Finding someone willing to take that "gamble" means the B of T and Admin would have to let them run it as they see fit and that person would have to have a very deep pocket book.... Someone who is already national recognized and with a proven track record..... Wait, what am I saying!... nah, this won't happen. This is silly thinkin'..... Forget it.

 

[goody1986]

I don’t get the hatred for Dolson. Do people not remember the guy he replaced? Glass is the real genesis of all of our problems the last 15 or so years. Worst thing to happen to IU since probably its founding. Certainly the worst thing in the last 60 years. Dolson is doing his best to clean up the pieces and while football is a complete clown show at least basketball appears in great shape.

Dolson's track record with football seems pretty awful so far. Awarded a too-long and too expensive contract extension to Allen, suggestions are that he refused to pay up to buy out at least one assistant (which was short-sighted at best), and he's done nothing for facilities, game environment, etc. It doesn't look like he's been a prolific fundraiser either. If basketball lives up to the hype this year and is able to re-establish itself as a B10 power moving forward, that's a great feather in his cap. But we need someone who can make good decisions for more than one sport. I'm not receptive to the "covid handicap" excuse as every school in the country dealt with that - many very well and kept advancing, many not so well. We're in the not well category.

In Dolson's defense, I think any reasonable AD would have given Allen a boost after the 2020 season and what seemed, at the time, to be a few years of consistent progress. The issue isn't Allen's salary, it's the duration of the full guarantee that has the potential to cause the football program and whole department issues for the next decade.

 

[abraxis]

Yes just awful

Coach Sam Wyche was another big disappointment, too. Not that he did any kind of coverup run-a-muck like McNeely, but strictly for not being more loyal. Who can blame him though? Finally, it looked like we had a young, energetic leader, a more dynamic personality, fiery on the sideline, ripping off his headset kind of guy. He cost the athletic dept. a lot of money by changing the logo and color scheme. That particular design did not last long with fans being so bitter for him stiffing us like he did. I wish I still had my ball cap with his colors and logo, it was a one year deal and probably worth a few extra dollars at rummage sales today.

One would hope our athletic director had done his homework before hiring someone so well thought of as a potential coach. It wasn't his one year IU coaching record that made the NFL front offices take notice. He was an NFL coach in waiting and he probably knew that when he signed on at IU. Too bad our athletic director didn't have better NFL connections. Maybe it's not just our football team that is snake-bit, maybe its bigger than that...our athletic department!

 

[82hoosier]

Why in the world would I care if the AD played football in high school??? That is literally one of the most ridiculous statements I've read here in a long time.

If one has played a sport at a serious level they most likely will have a better understanding of some of the nuances of the game. A better grasp of some of the techniques. A better understanding of the difficulties with the power rushing attack utilizing a 175 lb running back. Or at least knowing what questions to ask.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

If one has played a sport at a serious level they most likely will have a better understanding of some of the nuances of the game. A better grasp of some of the techniques. A better understanding of the difficulties with the power rushing attack utilizing a 175 lb running back. Or at least knowing what questions to ask.

We have run this debate into the ground, but these next few games and the off season recruiting may put SD to the test.

 

[Al Bino]

If one has played a sport at a serious level they most likely will have a better understanding of some of the nuances of the game. A better grasp of some of the techniques. A better understanding of the difficulties with the power rushing attack utilizing a 175 lb running back. Or at least knowing what questions to ask.

And while all that you state is important for a coach, I don't see that as all that relevant for an AD.
Does the AD also need to know how to run a motion offense in bball or signs for a double steal in baseball?
That's why you hire coaches!

 

[JIMSHAM]

My thought was that if he was choosing Indiana's football coach basketball coach etc he'd have a well-rounded background at least in high school. I couldn't find any evidence that he played any organized sports. Not even flag football! But then again flag football probably would not have been mentioned in Wikipedia.

He started out mopping the floors and doing laundry for the basketball team. And eventually he worked his way up to head student manager. At some point he worked for Tim Knight. And then he was back in Assembly Hall working for Fred Glass.

When Glass retired as athletic director he recommended to Dolson that he apply for the AD job, which he did. So apparently somebody with virtually no athletic experience recommended somebody else with no athletic experience to be athletic director. One of the first things he did was give out big contract extensions to the football staff.

I can't imagine that kind of authority could rest solely with an athletic director or even with a committee from the athletic department.
And yet if that is the case I would not be surprised.

Quite often the highest paid state employees work in athletic departments. Clearly things are way out of control. Just look at the Paul Chriyst situation in Wisconsin

I prefer that the AD position should have some athletic experience. That being said I would contend that Dolson's time as a manager on Knight's teams is probably just as valuable if not more than actual playing time. His job is managing the coaches along with the athletic department. It does not include play on the field. He has already shown that he would act with the Miller dimissal.

 

[Jackskip23]

And while all that you state is important for a coach, I don't see that as all that relevant for an AD.
Does the AD also need to know how to run a motion offense in bball or signs for a double steal in baseball?
That's why you hire coaches!

How do you know what to look for in coaches if you never competed, played, coached, or spent any meaningful time immersed in an athletic program? How can make an informed hire when you’re wholly lacking an understanding of these attributes?

I prefer that the AD position should have some athletic experience. That being said I would contend that Dolson's time as a manager on Knight's teams is probably just as valuable if not more than actual playing time. His job is managing the coaches along with the athletic department. It does not include play on the field. He has already shown that he would act with the Miller dimissal.

I think the biggest issue / shortcoming with previous guys is that they had no practical experience at by far the most important part of the job . . . hiring the right coaches and being a steward of programs. I agree that Dolson’s service as one of Knight’s managers was likely great training in some aspects of the job, though.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

I prefer that the AD position should have some athletic experience. That being said I would contend that Dolson's time as a manager on Knight's teams is probably just as valuable if not more than actual playing time. His job is managing the coaches along with the athletic department. It does not include play on the field. He has already shown that he would act with the Miller dimissal.

Yeah, the missles being thrown at him are premature at best, borne out of emotion rather than logic.

 

[Al Bino]

How do you know what to look for in coaches if you never competed, played, coached, or spent any meaningful time immersed in an athletic program? How can make an informed hire when you’re wholly lacking an understanding of these attributes?

I think the biggest issue / shortcoming with previous guys is that they had no practical experience at by far the most import part of the job . . . hiring the right coaches and being a steward of programs. I agree that Dolson’s service as one of Knight’s managers was likely great training in some aspects of the job, though.

You network with people who's opinion you trust and people that have the requisite knowledge.

 

[ribbont]

This is why Dolson is Fred’s “Mini Me.”
Two guys that undoubtedly love the university but no background in athletic administration. Virtually every university replaces ADs with experienced ADs.
Pat Kraft would have talked to us. Now he’s at Penn State.

Let's see how Penn St basketball improves under Kraft.

 

[Jackskip23]

You network with people who's opinion you trust and people that have the requisite knowledge.

That never is a substitute for experience. We’ve seen that.

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

Let's see how Penn St basketball improves under Kraft.

Kraft doesn’t need to worry that much about bball. He has a cash cow bringing 100k fans there during football season.

 

[fieldjock]

Scott is under the radar guy that seems to like status quo and not to make waves. The press conference regarding the new Big Ten tv agreement was very unexciting. Money has already been spent.
It seems the only thing he worries about is taking our new president out to lunch and the optics of that. He doesn't seem like a guy with a vision or a game plan.
We need leadership with a vision. Lets get a new indoor practice facility and a new O line coach to start with.

 

[IUCrazy2]

They at least need to have a football “lean” because that’s how every P5 school operates. The fact that people here think basketball can successfully subsidize an entire athletic department in this day and age is just ignoring basic Econ 101.
You could absolutely hate the sport of football but should be savvy enough to know that in order to play in this sandbox, you have to give it its attention, and a lot of it.

I think they have had more of a football lean lately...this is just a major project. There are guys sitting at better programs right now who people think, "Pretty good coach" who would fail at Indiana.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Scott is under the radar guy that seems to like status quo and not to make waves.

His unexpected move on AM very early in his tenure, during Covid budgets and uncertainty all while a new POTU was coming...seems to be incongruos with this statement.

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

I think they have had more of a football lean lately...this is just a major project. There are guys sitting at better programs right now who people think, "Pretty good coach" who would fail at Indiana.

True….but it’s Dolson’s job to identify and find guys that are able to get IU out of the steaming pile. There are examples out there (Kansas, Purdue) of coaching hires that were able to elevate their programs out of their respective dumpster fires. IU just doesn’t make the right hires.

 

[IUCrazy2]

True….but it’s Dolson’s job to identify and find guys that are able to get IU out of the steaming pile. There are examples out there (Kansas, Purdue) of coaching hires that were able to elevate their programs out of their respective dumpster fires. IU just doesn’t make the right hires.

I think the bolded part of your post is THE problem. It has been the problem in basketball as well. You can point to other programs around the country that have less to work with from a money standpoint and spend less from a money standpoint, who have performed better than IU. It was like when Crean was here and we were spending more money than anyone on the recruiting budget and he underperformed. The problem was not the money, it was Crean.

I believe you could put Tom Allen in charge at a place like Wisconsin with the same staff and he would still underperform their expectations. He would have the money and the better recruits that Wisconsin brings but I think he has deficiencies and his staff does nothing to mask them.

You need Indiana's version of Joe Tiller to come in and work miracles IMO.

 

[td75]

His unexpected move on AM very early in his tenure, during Covid budgets and uncertainty all while a new POTU was coming...seems to be incongruos with this statement.

The flip side of that coin is his decision to stand pat with a LOUSY oline coach. This showed an incredible lack of insight, it's unbelievable to be honest.

He'll never be considered a competent AD on this particular board with moves like this. When comparing the two decisions, he screams bball man through and through.

 

[Jackskip23]

The flip side of that coin is his decision to stand pat with a LOUSY oline coach. This showed an incredible lack of insight, it's unbelievable to be honest.

He'll never be considered a competent AD on this particular board with moves like this. When comparing the two decisions, he screams bball man through and through.

Curious as to what you think Dolson should’ve done with the O line coach. Is that really an area where you want him making decisions?

I think the jury is still out on him. He was able to convince Woody to come back after the previous guy pissed him off royally, though the Brad Stevens deal didn’t do him any favors. Need to give him time to see if he’s up to the task. But let Coach Allen run the football program..

 

[td75]

Curious as to what you think Dolson should’ve done with the O line coach. Is that really an area where you want him making decisions?

I think the jury is still out on him. He was able to convince Woody to come back after the previous guy pissed him off royally, though the Brad Stevens deal didn’t do him any favors. Need to give him time to see if he’s up to the task. But let Coach Allen run the football program..

Dolson is the head man of the AD, I expected him to make a move on the underperforming Hiller and he clearly didn't. I certainly don't expect Dolson to choose the next oline coach, that's Allen's baby.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

The flip side of that coin is his decision to stand pat with a LOUSY oline coach. This showed an incredible lack of insight, it's unbelievable to be honest.

He'll never be considered a competent AD on this particular board with moves like this. When comparing the two decisions, he screams bball man through and through.

First of all, NO ONE here knows the workings of what happened or why Hiller was retained. But to your point, The AD's job is to put the right person in the HC chair and let them make those decisions.

Now, If you want to argue that he has retained and even extended the wrong HC...that is fine.

As I posted before this is the seminal season for TA. Two great seasons, followed by a total bed shitting. If this season stays on it's current trjectory and recruiting falls off, the pressure then shifts to SD to do HIS job.

 

[Jackskip23]

Dolson is the head man of the AD, I expected him to make a move on the underperforming Hiller and he clearly didn't. I certainly don't expect Dolson to choose the next oline coach, that's Allen's baby.

So you think he should be making coaching decisions, even though he has zero experience in that realm? I realize some people are dismissive of the need for an AD to actually have experience in the main parts of his job, but having him chase out the O line coach is a dangerous line to cross.

 

[td75]

First of all, NO ONE here knows the workings of what happened or why Hiller was retained. But to your point, The AD's job is to put the right person in the HC chair and let them make those decisions.

Now, If you want to argue that he has retained and even extended the wrong HC...that is fine.

As I posted before this is the seminal season for TA. Two great seasons, followed by a total bed shitting. If this season stays on it's current trjectory and recruiting falls off, the pressure then shifts to SD to do HIS job.

Your stance is that Dolson should not intervene with clearly underperforming assistants. I disagree; that isn't real leadership. Delegating is great as long as the people you delegate to do their job.

In this particular case, Allen hasn't pulled the trigger on Hiller. In a nutshell, it's bad program building on both of their parts by standing pat with Hiller.

 

[td75]

So you think he should be making coaching decisions, even though he has zero experience in that realm? I realize some people are dismissive of the need for an AD to actually have experience in the main parts of his job, but having him chase out the O line coach is a dangerous line to cross.

Allen and Dolson are both guilty. Allen is the head coach and his job is to build a winner. Dolson's job is to hire the right head coaches and then delegate these responsibilities to them.

However, in this particular case, Dolson needed to make the move after it became crystal clear that Allen wasn't going to do it. Both men are/have shown a clear lack of vision and leadership in this situation.

I certainly don't want Dolson hiring/firing assistants on his own accord BUT in situational cases, he needs to.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Your stance is that Dolson should not intervene with clearly underperforming assistants. I disagree; that isn't real leadership. Delegating is great as long as the people you delegate to do their job.

In this particular case, Allen hasn't pulled the trigger on Hiller. In a nutshell, it's bad program building on both of their parts by standing pat with Hiller.

At some point as leaders we do intervene with the VPs but you give them a chance to work their own plan initially otherwise you lose trust.

As I keep saying. we don't know why or what was said or done regarding Hiller other than he is still here and our line play sucks. Perhaps they believed he was not the root cause of the OL issues at that point.

If TA insisted that Hiller stay and SD gave him the lattitude, then TA is responsible for the results.

If SD has to force TA to get rid of Hiller, then SD has bigger problems than an assistant coach.

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

Curious as to what you think Dolson should’ve done with the O line coach. Is that really an area where you want him making decisions?

I think the jury is still out on him. He was able to convince Woody to come back after the previous guy pissed him off royally, though the Brad Stevens deal didn’t do him any favors. Need to give him time to see if he’s up to the task. But let Coach Allen run the football program..

Convinced Woody?
Woody was trying to get into the job when AM was hired.
Let’s be honest: Woody wasn’t on anybod’s radar but Dolson’s. That wasn’t a coup on the hire….and we don’t know if that’s any more than just a bandaid at this point.

 

[8Stars5Banners]

Allen and Dolson are both guilty. Allen is the head coach and his job is to build a winner. Dolson's job is to hire the right head coaches and then delegate these responsibilities to them.

However, in this particular case, Dolson needed to make the move after it became crystal clear that Allen wasn't going to do it. Both men are/have shown a clear lack of vision and leadership in this situation.

I certainly don't want Dolson hiring/firing assistants on his own accord BUT in situational cases, he needs to.

do you think the CEO of Wendy's should come to small town America and fire the teenaged girl who is taking your order at the drive thru also??

 

[Palmbeachhoosier]

Allen and Dolson are both guilty. Allen is the head coach and his job is to build a winner. Dolson's job is to hire the right head coaches and then delegate these responsibilities to them.

However, in this particular case, Dolson needed to make the move after it became crystal clear that Allen wasn't going to do it. Both men are/have shown a clear lack of vision and leadership in this situation.

I certainly don't want Dolson hiring/firing assistants on his own accord BUT in situational cases, he needs to.

You do not know what is going on behind closed doors. Perhaps SD told TA to fire DH and TA had a reason so compelling he was allowed TA to keep him. And maybe there are stipulations and if they are not met then TA gets the boot.

 

[Champs1976]

His unexpected move on AM very early in his tenure, during Covid budgets and uncertainty all while a new POTU was coming...seems to be incongruos with this statement.

Disagree. Getting rid of Archie was so obvious no one could miss it. There were alumni that wanted him gone and were willing to pay for it. Archie couldn't recruit and HS kids viewed him as dead man walking at IU. Existing players were going to bail. Fans were starting to not go to games at SSAH. Archie's personality and behavior with alums and fans was offputting - he did not work at that at all. His assistants were mediocre and poor recruiters (with the exception of Kenya Hunter). The program was going to go nowhere but downhill fast with a trajectory toward the B1G cellar. Giving Archie more time would just make the recovery that much harder and longer, even if a great coach could be hired. If Dolson didn't pull the trigger on him he would start his tenure as a horrible AD. He had no choice.

Dolson will soon be facing the same problem with the football program, with one large problem. There is no big bucks alum that will spend the money to buy out Allen's contract. After this season Allen probably gets one more year where he messes the bed again because next year's team will have much less experience returning. In addition, the likelihood of Allen now solving the OL coach problem is much less than before this season because anyone with OL coaching skill will be hesitant to take the job knowing full well Allen is rapidly earning his ticket out the door. Besides, who wants to hook their career to a loser. Recruiting falls off for the same reason.

This was the year Allen had to right the ship and it doesn't appear that is going to happen. All because he was not self critical enough to see his own failings and had unwarranted loyalty to a really bad OL coach.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Disagree. Getting rid of Archie was so obvious no one could miss it. There were alumni that wanted him gone and were willing to pay for it. Archie couldn't recruit and HS kids viewed him as dead man walking at IU. Existing players were going to bail. Fans were starting to not go to games at SSAH. Archie's personality and behavior with alums and fans was offputting - he did not work at that at all. His assistants were mediocre and poor recruiters (with the exception of Kenya Hunter). The program was going to go nowhere but downhill fast with a trajectory toward the B1G cellar. Giving Archie more time would just make the recovery that much harder and longer, even if a great coach could be hired. If Dolson didn't pull the trigger on him he would start his tenure as a horrible AD. He had no choice.

Dolson will soon be facing the same problem with the football program, with one large problem. There is no big bucks alum that will spend the money to buy out Allen's contract. After this season Allen probably gets one more year where he messes the bed again because next year's team will have much less experience returning. In addition, the likelihood of Allen now solving the OL coach problem is much less than before this season because anyone with OL coaching skill will be hesitant to take the job knowing full well Allen is rapidly earning his ticket out the door. Besides, who wants to hook their career to a loser. Recruiting falls off for the same reason.

This was the year Allen had to right the ship and it doesn't appear that is going to happen. All because he was not self critical enough to see his own failings and had unwarranted loyalty to a really bad OL coach.

Obviously 90% of us knew and agreed that AM needed to go.

What you seem to have forgotten is the context. Absolutley no one thought SD would pull the trigger for another year due to the things I keep mentioning. Covid, budgets, new to jod and new POTU coming in.

Go back and look at the threads that lead up to that time.

Scott showed us a lot right off the bat.

 

[Jackskip23]

Convinced Woody?
Woody was trying to get into the job when AM was hired.
Let’s be honest: Woody wasn’t on anybod’s radar but Dolson’s. That wasn’t a coup on the hire….and we don’t know if that’s any more than just a bandaid at this point.

Woody withdrew during the “search” that produced Miller, and it was solely because of how the search process was run. Pretty easy to know exactly what he was talking about.

 

[8Stars5Banners]

Woody withdrew during the “search” that produced Miller, and it was so.sly because of how the search process was run. Pretty easy to know exactly what he was talking about.

do tell

 

[Jackskip23]

do tell

Direct quote from 2021 Big Ten Media Day that was included in the Champion / Scholar E-Newsletter:

Woodson said he was interested in the IU job when Archie Miller was hired, but he didn't like how IU handled the process at that time. "I kind of walked away."

Any guesses as to whom at IU “handled the process”? Any guesses as to why a number of basketball alumni raised hell after this occurred, or what this set in motion?

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Convinced Woody?
Woody was trying to get into the job when AM was hired.
Let’s be honest: Woody wasn’t on anybod’s radar but Dolson’s. That wasn’t a coup on the hire….and we don’t know if that’s any more than just a bandaid at this point.

You are right. Woody was not on the short list when the hire was being made. He didn’t like that and I understand. His quote about how the process was run has been around since his initial hire and has been predictably weaponized by some that Glass didn’t suck up as well as some pu grads who just want to throw shade at IU.

Consider the “hater” source.

 

[Champs1976]

You are right. Woody was not on the short list when the hire was being made. He didn’t like that and I understand. His quote about how the process was run has been around since his initial hire and has been predictably weaponized by some that Glass didn’t suck up as well as some pu grads who just want to throw shade at IU.

Consider the “hater” source.

Most, not just "hater" sources agree that Glass was singularly focused on Archie, there really wasn't much of a search process, it was all about landing Archie. Woodson wasn't considered nor was anyone else. That's what happened.

 

[Jackskip23]

Most, not just "hater" sources agree that Glass was singularly focused on Archie, there really wasn't much of a search process, it was all about landing Archie. Woodson wasn't considered nor was anyone else. That's what happened.

Exactly. There’s no mystery here. Ask any former player who had any involvement or advocacy for MW during The process that resulted in AM being hired. The facts have never changed..

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Most, not just "hater" sources agree that Glass was singularly focused on Archie, there really wasn't much of a search process, it was all about landing Archie. Woodson wasn't considered nor was anyone else. That's what happened.

Correct and pretty much what I said. Reread my post. Woody was not on the short list. He did not like it. Others feel the need to weaponize it.

the troll here is suggesting that this somehow led to Fred’s demise which isn’t remotely accurate particularly considering the former player/BOT member that wanted AM.

water under the bridge at this point, but some are generally bitter and need to lash out.

Life in the Big Ten as they say.

oh…and if he weren’t banned on the Hoops board he would be spreading this BS there.