Is there ever an answer from the left other than TAX THE RICH!!
I didn't realize just how lousy a deal Social Security is . . .
- Thread starter Aloha Hoosier
- Start date
Well your UPS driver most likely qualifies for a pension. If he has worked at UPS for 20+ years, with the generous company match that UPS has had, he probably has something close to 7 figures in that. No sympathy there for me, and for those that actually saved during their working years, retirement in the US should not be an issue. For those that didn't, why do you want me to pay for their mistakes?
In this instance, it's simply "tax everybody the same, don't exempt the 'rich'".
He probably does. It was just an example of what a physical job does to someone over time. Lots and lots of folks out there who have put in that kind of work and haven't gotten that kind of benefit. (UPS is a Teamsters shop, insert evil unions and all that.)
While I was active and did do some moving and lifting and what have you, I hadn't done actually heavy manual labor in ages. The last few years doing even that (while mostly sitting in an office chair) was starting to wear on me. If I'd been forced to go on to 70 I don't know if I could have managed. Even today, the climbing in and out of a car and lugging shit in and out of dozens of businesses over the course of half a day takes a toll. Maybe I'm just a lazy taker, but I'd like to have a few years of retirement under my belt before my body totally breaks down.
Right. And lugging shit around in your mind for decades so that it consumes most waking moments and many sleeping ones will take years from your life.
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I would normally agree with you on that, but I don't see the logic in putting a cap on SS taxes. Those that make over the maximum can well afford it and it would help keep the system from going broke.
SS is very imperfect and should be replaced, but it's what we have now and I don't really want to see benefits cut when the system runs out of money in a few years.
That’s throwing money away because there is matching contributions up to 5% I think.
No, we have a progressive rate where 'the rich' are taxed at a higher rate.
At least with SS, it's a flat tax.
Let's face it - SS isn't for the well off. It provides a base for the vast majority of Americans who have little or no savings.
If we can't take care of the elderly, that makes us a pretty uncaring society. We who consider ourselves Conservatives always say we don't mind helping out those who truly need it (at least that's my philosophy). I think SS is one of those situations.
Do people make stupid financial systems? Yes, they certainly do. But if you're working, you pay into SS. I think that should be something that is solvent and right now, it's going broke quickly. Raising the cap is a reasonable option on people who don't really depend on SS anyway.
I don't know if it's adding years, but it's probably keeping my wife from killing me.
well the way my business has evolved (devolved) i'm at my computer 12-14 hours a day. that cant be healthy
Not disagreeing, but I'm not sure what that has to do with the discussion at hand.
UPSer here. Not a brown short but a big shot corporate guy.
We are moving away from pensions and unions hard and fast. The benefits and retirement plan still kick ass though.
For you and those like you, sure. But it's not going away and needs to be shored up. That would be the simplest and most equitable way.
My guy said some of the votes the younger rank and file have made have been beneficial in the short term but will end up biting them in the ass.
That’s only a way to shore up a very poorly designed system. I wouldn’t call it fair or equitable either.
You keep bringing up "fair". How many times have I heard that sometimes life isn't "fair" and you have to deal with it? Or is fair only fair for the deserving?
We're talking about Social Security.
I'd be good with a flat income tax with zero deductions after the standard deduction. Zero. A consumption tax that exempted food, medicine, and utilities should be part of the whole package.
There are a lot of things that aren't right that we put up with every day.
I would jump for joy for a flat income tax, deductions or not. Unfortunately, the near 50% of American that pay virtually $0 in Federal Income tax will never let that happen. I am quite surprised that you would be in favor of that?
You shouldn't be. I've always been in favor of everyone, everyone having some skin in the game. A flat tax after a reasonable standard deduction would be progressive, and without any other deductions would be equitable. No other deductions would eliminate the more influential from being able to carve out favorable exceptions that keep them from paying what others do. Of course it's a pipe dream, but it's an interesting thought experiment.
How would you handle charitable contributions, or other charitable instruments I.e. CRATS and CRUTS. Do you view them as an exception, or do away with them as well?
I said ZERO deductions. That means ZERO. Everyone is on the exact same playing field. I'm probably naive, but I believe charitable people would continue to be charitable.
Most would continue - I don't give to charity because of the tax deduction (I can't itemize anyway).
But I'm not donating $40 million to get my name on Assembly Hall.
Right or wrong is a philosophical argument, and an important one. Whether or not SS remains solvent at current funding is not a philosophical argument. All options should be considered.
As as aside, those who earn above the cap are obviously doing reasonably well at least. To DANC's point, the SS Tax is flat. Raising or lifting the cap is only continuing to tax those people at the same rate as those under the cap. Sure, they may not realize the benefit of the increased contribution but somebody they know probably will, or their children. Gas taxes are flat taxes as well. Just b/c I drive more miles doesn't mean my tax burden is suddenly capped.
Stress is as much or more a debiliitator and killer as manual labor.
Lifting the cap is the simplest, easiest, and most equitable way to address the SS funding shortfall. That it hasn't been done already is hard to fathom.
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I am in the same boat you are. i'm 69, and had an office -professional service job that didn't require huge physical work, From the ages of 57-62, I helped Coach our CYO Parish Football Team. I was able to be out in the heat on those fields for 3 Hours a day 6 days a week. We closed our Office in 2016 after our primary Owner died, and I have been working from home with some long term clients since then.
It didn't happen overnight, but my Body has deteriorated over the past several Years. No doubt a result of the excessive athletic abuse i subjected myself to in my younger days - 4 sports all the way through High School with no off season and recovery time, 2 years of multiple sports in College, and then 5 years of intramurals, pickup games, etc. for 5 years, and 7 years of amateur soccer after i got out. Combine that with some tough Summer jobs in factories, and a semester of unloading the large UPS package trucks by hand at 5:15 a.m. and it's starting to show. My knees are junk, getting in and out of a Car multiple times really puts a strain on me.
I started drawing my Social Security at age 66. I would have preferred to wait another year to collect the maximum benefit, but it wasn't possible. I tell people jokingly that when I turned age 55, my whole attitude toward Bodily Parts and functions changed. At that point it became 'If it doesn't hurt, it doesn't work."
Yeah the place I worked at matched up to 6% yet I knew several that didn't contribute. They would say that they couldn't afford it.. What they were really saying is that they couldn't afford all their toys AND contribute to the savings plan.
I agree with most of that but a person also has to take a personals responsibility for their future.
That would be a true statement IF what you received was based strictly on what you paid it but it isn't. A person making a million dollars would pay in 10 times as much as a person making $100,000 but the person that made a million dollars will not get a lot more on the SS check.
Why do you think that congress passed SS but exempted themselves from the program? They knew that it wasn't a very good program. I think sometimes in the early 80s they were finally included.
Many with credible retirement programs were originally exempted. My dad worked for Penn Central and was exempted. 9f course Penn Central stole from the retirement funds and then went bankrupt leaving workers with nothing. Congress changed the law allowing railroad workers to collect Social Security even though they never paid into it.
That will never happen, but probably not for the reasons you imagine. The tax code is the single largest weapon in any politician's arsenal. The power to screw this group and reward that group is what they use to buy votes. Listen to the rhetoric of any speech. It's all about how YOU are getting hosed by THAT guy, and I'll fix it by taxing the shit out of THAT guy and giving it to YOU.
An actual fair and straightforward flat tax with no manipulations, deductions, gimmicks, etc, removes the ability to punish, reward, and manipulate. It reduces taxation to, I dunno, simple revenue raising. No politician would ever allow that.
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