How Off Limits Is At Least Questioning The Unimaginable?

[i'vegotwinners]

does society at least have an obligation to bring up the most unpleasant of hypotheticals, even if just to disprove, even if just to say it was brought up for the sake of discussing every possibility?

i brought this up several days ago, and no one so much as responded, so i'll throw it out there one more time.

am i flirting with the center rail, no doubt, but the hypothetical at least needs brought up in my opinion.

everyone is shocked that Israel intelligence didn't pick up at all on the attack.

that would be understandable if we were talking about a lone suicide bomber, but we're talking literally thousands of missiles that don't exactly fit in the trunk of a Kia.

and the co-ordination of hundreds-thousands of individuals, of which Israeli intelligence was supposedly heavily embedded in.

and Israel has elite cyber intelligence tech at it's fingertips, and these are the guys that installed Pegasus spyware on the phones of even it's allies, without anyone knowing.

and because Israeli elite intelligence totally and completely failed to pick up on anything at all going down, Netanyahu and his far right buddies who are completely running the show, get to carry out their wet dream fantasy of leveling Gaza, which would have been politically a no go absent said intelligence failure..

how great when your greatest failure ever is rewarded with what you've dreamed of getting to do, and couldn't absent said inexplicable failure.

unfair. possibly/probably so. but some things are of such magnitude that all possibilities should be explored or at least discussed imo.

not sayin. just think it's more than strange literally no one on any corporate media has so much brought this up, so i'm throwing it out there just for argument's sake..

then again, is any hypothetical more untouchable for anyone in corporate news, even if surely someone else has wondered in silence to themselves the same, if just for a fleeting moment.

don't shoot the messenger. just raising a hypothetical for argument's sake.

your thoughts.

 

[ORG]

does society at least have an obligation to bring up the most unpleasant of hypotheticals, even if just to disprove, even if just to say it was brought up for the sake of discussing every possibility?

i brought this up several days ago, and no one so much as responded, so i'll throw it out there one more time.

am i flirting with the center rail, no doubt, but the hypothetical at least needs brought up in my opinion.

everyone is shocked that Israel intelligence didn't pick up at all on the attack.

that would be understandable if we were talking about a lone suicide bomber, but we're talking literally thousands of missiles that don't exactly fit in the trunk of a Kia.

and the co-ordination of hundreds-thousands of individuals, of which Israeli intelligence was supposedly heavily embedded in.

and Israel has elite cyber intelligence tech at it's fingertips, and these are the guys that installed Pegasus spyware on the phones of even it's allies, without anyone knowing.

and because Israeli elite intelligence totally and completely failed to pick up on anything at all going down, Netanyahu and his far right buddies who are completely running the show, get to carry out their wet dream fantasy of leveling Gaza, which would have been politically a no go absent said intelligence failure..

how great when your greatest failure ever is rewarded with what you've dreamed of getting to do, and couldn't absent said inexplicable failure.

unfair. possibly/probably so. but some things are of such magnitude that all possibilities should be explored or at least discussed imo.

not sayin. just think it's more than strange literally no one on any corporate media has so much brought this up, so i'm throwing it out there just for argument's sake..

then again, is any hypothetical more untouchable for anyone in corporate news, even if surely someone else has wondered in silence to themselves the same, if just for a fleeting moment.

don't shoot the messenger. just raising a hypothetical for argument's sake.

your thoughts.

Is it possible/ sure it is.

It is even probable? IMHO it is extremely unprobable.

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

Just a coincidence, that's all..

 

[DontComeAroundMuch]

The 9/11 conspiracy theories took a few months at least. Kudos you piece of shit on cutting to the chase.

More likely scenario (what actually happened):

Israel was at rest on a Holiday, they were distracted by an internal strife over the judicial system, and had diverted resources to the northern border in light of recent Hezzbollah attacks.

Plenty of Hamas got taken out and killed by Israeli police and military during the course
of these attacks. You can see the videos.

 

[Noodle]

Do you honestly think something like that would not have gotten out beforehand or at a minimum won’t come out very soon? Netanyahu would get a firing squad if people find out he did something like that.

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

Do you honestly think something like that would not have gotten out beforehand or at a minimum won’t come out very soon? Netanyahu would get a firing squad if people find out he did something like that.

Internet buzz is that a 7 hour stand down order was given during the Hamas original attack. I don't have any corroboration.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

don't shoot the messenger. just raising a hypothetical for argument's sake.

your thoughts.

Surfside condo 2.0.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

does society at least have an obligation to bring up the most unpleasant of hypotheticals, even if just to disprove, even if just to say it was brought up for the sake of discussing every possibility?

i brought this up several days ago, and no one so much as responded, so i'll throw it out there one more time.

am i flirting with the center rail, no doubt, but the hypothetical at least needs brought up in my opinion.

everyone is shocked that Israel intelligence didn't pick up at all on the attack.

that would be understandable if we were talking about a lone suicide bomber, but we're talking literally thousands of missiles that don't exactly fit in the trunk of a Kia.

and the co-ordination of hundreds-thousands of individuals, of which Israeli intelligence was supposedly heavily embedded in.

and Israel has elite cyber intelligence tech at it's fingertips, and these are the guys that installed Pegasus spyware on the phones of even it's allies, without anyone knowing.

and because Israeli elite intelligence totally and completely failed to pick up on anything at all going down, Netanyahu and his far right buddies who are completely running the show, get to carry out their wet dream fantasy of leveling Gaza, which would have been politically a no go absent said intelligence failure..

how great when your greatest failure ever is rewarded with what you've dreamed of getting to do, and couldn't absent said inexplicable failure.

unfair. possibly/probably so. but some things are of such magnitude that all possibilities should be explored or at least discussed imo.

not sayin. just think it's more than strange literally no one on any corporate media has so much brought this up, so i'm throwing it out there just for argument's sake..

then again, is any hypothetical more untouchable for anyone in corporate news, even if surely someone else has wondered in silence to themselves the same, if just for a fleeting moment.

don't shoot the messenger. just raising a hypothetical for argument's sake.

your thoughts.

I seriously doubt hundreds of thousands knew. I suspect they compartmentalized the volunteers into their own unit who had little to no contact with anyone else. We pulled off D-Day without a clue, the the A bombs, Pearl, 9/11, Tet offensive. Surprises occur.

Hamas knows electronic devices are compromised. They certainly had a code that Israel couldn't penetrate. But if this group lived and worked together, perhaps in a sealed off section of those tunnels, it would be very hard for Israel to penetrate.

In the book on Colonel Hackworth I am reading, he discusses how quickly the enemy figures things out. He used the introduction of Starlight scopes to his unit, for a couple nights his snipers ran up big numbers, then suddenly nothing. The Enemy had no idea how we were getting them, but knew we were and changed their strategy.

Everyone knows the US, China, Russia, Israel, controls the electronic space. Anyone attacking those powers is going to find some way not to use it, or so heavily hide it the other side has no idea what it means. Think "John has a long Moustache" from Longest Day.

 

[BradStevens]

your thoughts.

Netenyahu loves his country and his people. He might be corrupt, might be seeking too much power, and might be a war hawk. But unless you have proof of something, I don't think it's consistent with human nature to suppose that he would actively participate in allowing thousands of his countrymen to be butchered. Let alone the number of other people in the Israeli government--military, non-politicians, etc.--who would also had to have known and stood down.

As cynical as I am about politicians, as a class, I am not that cynical.

 

[Rockport Zebra]

I seriously doubt hundreds of thousands knew. I suspect they compartmentalized the volunteers into their own unit who had little to no contact with anyone else. We pulled off D-Day without a clue, the the A bombs, Pearl, 9/11, Tet offensive. Surprises occur.

Hamas knows electronic devices are compromised. They certainly had a code that Israel couldn't penetrate. But if this group lived and worked together, perhaps in a sealed off section of those tunnels, it would be very hard for Israel to penetrate.

In the book on Colonel Hackworth I am reading, he discusses how quickly the enemy figures things out. He used the introduction of Starlight scopes to his unit, for a couple nights his snipers ran up big numbers, then suddenly nothing. The Enemy had no idea how we were getting them, but knew we were and changed their strategy.

Everyone knows the US, China, Russia, Israel, controls the electronic space. Anyone attacking those powers is going to find some way not to use it, or so heavily hide it the other side has no idea what it means. Think "John has a long Moustache" from Longest Day.

Hackworth is very good. "About Face" is a great read.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Hackworth is very good. "About Face" is a great read.

That's the book, it is incredible. I am most the way through. Sadly I suspect a lot of his complaints about the 5 sided building are still true.

 

[Rockport Zebra]

That's the book, it is incredible. I am most the way through. Sadly I suspect a lot of his complaints about the 5 sided building are still true.

My real-life experience is West Point grads dismissed the guy. I loved his insights.

 

[Cthulhu85]

That's the book, it is incredible. I am most the way through. Sadly I suspect a lot of his complaints about the 5 sided building are still true.

My grandpa never said much about his time in service. The only person he ever mentioned by name was Hackworth. Said he was a great officer and he gave me the book About Face. I suspect he served with him in some capacity.

I recommend Steel My Soldiers Hearts too. Hackworth pretty much wrote the manual for winning in the Mekong.

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

Netenyahu loves his country and his people. He might be corrupt, might be seeking too much power, and might be a war hawk. But unless you have proof of something, I don't think it's consistent with human nature to suppose that he would actively participate in allowing thousands of his countrymen to be butchered. Let alone the number of other people in the Israeli government--military, non-politicians, etc.--who would also had to have known and stood down.

As cynical as I am about politicians, as a class, I am not that cynical.

His brother Yonathan led the commando raid which successfully freed Israeli hijack victims at Entebbe, Uganda in 1976.

He was the only Israeli military KIA in the raid.

He held dual citizenship, having been born in New York City.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

My grandpa never said much about his time in service. The only person he ever mentioned by name was Hackworth. Said he was a great officer and he gave me the book About Face. I suspect he served with him in some capacity.

I recommend Steel My Soldiers Hearts too. Hackworth pretty much wrote the manual for winning in the Mekong.

Last spring I read the book about Vann, who Hackworth spoke glowingly of a few times. They were very similar, I see why would have gotten along. I still can't get over Vann being a civilian General. But Vann had a wording about our problems in Vietnam I haven't heard Hackworth use yet (I have 2 hours left of the 40 hour audio). He said that America suffered from victoryitis. Our military leaders refused to believe we could lose a war, we were America, we were invincible. So when Vann and Hackworth said we were fighting wrong and losing, their ideas had no chance to gain traction. We couldn't lose, we were the best, and no Southeast Asian peasant could stop us.

Hackworth's travels with SLA Marshall showed that perfectly. I had no idea that Marshall was such a, well, fraud.

And Hackworth really reminds me of Pappy Boyington.

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

Last spring I read the book about Vann, who Hackworth spoke glowingly of a few times. They were very similar, I see why would have gotten along. I still can't get over Vann being a civilian General. But Vann had a wording about our problems in Vietnam I haven't heard Hackworth use yet (I have 2 hours left of the 40 hour audio). He said that America suffered from victoryitis. Our military leaders refused to believe we could lose a war, we were America, we were invincible. So when Vann and Hackworth said we were fighting wrong and losing, their ideas had no chance to gain traction. We couldn't lose, we were the best, and no Southeast Asian peasant could stop us.

Hackworth's travels with SLA Marshall showed that perfectly. I had no idea that Marshall was such a, well, fraud.

And Hackworth really reminds me of Pappy Boyington.

Hubris....

 

[Bloom.]

Internet buzz is that a 7 hour stand down order was given during the Hamas original attack.

The same dark web that had Russia piling 750K men into Ukraine?

I don't have any corroboration.

Oh, we know.

 

[Bloom.]

does society at least have an obligation to bring up the most unpleasant of hypotheticals, even if just to disprove, even if just to say it was brought up for the sake of discussing every possibility?

i brought this up several days ago, and no one so much as responded, so i'll throw it out there one more time.

am i flirting with the center rail, no doubt, but the hypothetical at least needs brought up in my opinion.

everyone is shocked that Israel intelligence didn't pick up at all on the attack.

that would be understandable if we were talking about a lone suicide bomber, but we're talking literally thousands of missiles that don't exactly fit in the trunk of a Kia.

and the co-ordination of hundreds-thousands of individuals, of which Israeli intelligence was supposedly heavily embedded in.

and Israel has elite cyber intelligence tech at it's fingertips, and these are the guys that installed Pegasus spyware on the phones of even it's allies, without anyone knowing.

and because Israeli elite intelligence totally and completely failed to pick up on anything at all going down, Netanyahu and his far right buddies who are completely running the show, get to carry out their wet dream fantasy of leveling Gaza, which would have been politically a no go absent said intelligence failure..

how great when your greatest failure ever is rewarded with what you've dreamed of getting to do, and couldn't absent said inexplicable failure.

unfair. possibly/probably so. but some things are of such magnitude that all possibilities should be explored or at least discussed imo.

not sayin. just think it's more than strange literally no one on any corporate media has so much brought this up, so i'm throwing it out there just for argument's sake..

then again, is any hypothetical more untouchable for anyone in corporate news, even if surely someone else has wondered in silence to themselves the same, if just for a fleeting moment.

don't shoot the messenger. just raising a hypothetical for argument's sake.

your thoughts.

There are people who felt FDR ignored intelligence about Pearl, and there are certainly people who think 9/11 was an inside job.

 

[Univee2]

Netenyahu loves his country and his people. He might be corrupt, might be seeking too much power, and might be a war hawk. But unless you have proof of something, I don't think it's consistent with human nature to suppose that he would actively participate in allowing thousands of his countrymen to be butchered. Let alone the number of other people in the Israeli government--military, non-politicians, etc.--who would also had to have known and stood down.

As cynical as I am about politicians, as a class, I am not that cynical.

If it were possible it would one of the most heinous acts of all time. It’s somewhat of an interesting thought experiment but we can all think of about a million situations where something off-the-wall might have had some shred of possibility More likely than this.

 

[Bloom.]

I seriously doubt hundreds of thousands knew. I suspect they compartmentalized the volunteers into their own unit who had little to no contact with anyone else. We pulled off D-Day without a clue, the the A bombs, Pearl, 9/11, Tet offensive. Surprises occur.

Hamas knows electronic devices are compromised. They certainly had a code that Israel couldn't penetrate. But if this group lived and worked together, perhaps in a sealed off section of those tunnels, it would be very hard for Israel to penetrate.

In the book on Colonel Hackworth I am reading, he discusses how quickly the enemy figures things out. He used the introduction of Starlight scopes to his unit, for a couple nights his snipers ran up big numbers, then suddenly nothing. The Enemy had no idea how we were getting them, but knew we were and changed their strategy.

Everyone knows the US, China, Russia, Israel, controls the electronic space. Anyone attacking those powers is going to find some way not to use it, or so heavily hide it the other side has no idea what it means. Think "John has a long Moustache" from Longest Day.

Sometimes you become so reliant on one form of technology or one method information retrieval you develop blindspots. That's certainly the case in 9/11.

 

[Hank Reardon]

The same dark web that had Russia piling 750K men into Ukraine?


Oh, we know.

Don't be obtuse. It was the same group that had the info about Billy Donavan's wife looking at horse farms in Southern Indiana. Or was that Rick Pitino's wife?

 

[Bloom.]

Netenyahu loves his country and his people. He might be corrupt, might be seeking too much power, and might be a war hawk. But unless you have proof of something, I don't think it's consistent with human nature to suppose that he would actively participate in allowing thousands of his countrymen to be butchered. Let alone the number of other people in the Israeli government--military, non-politicians, etc.--who would also had to have known and stood down.

As cynical as I am about politicians, as a class, I am not that cynical.

Tell that to Hamas.

I mostly agree with your premise, but Hamas certainly had to know attacking Israel to this extreme would lead to thousands of their "countrymen" to be killed or worse. Fair to chalk it up to their terrorists who think acts of martyrdom is a glorious way to die, but they did so knowing innocents on their side would also be killed.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Tell that to Hamas.

I mostly agree with your premise, but Hamas certainly had to know attacking Israel to this extreme would lead to thousands of their "countrymen" to be killed or worse. Fair to chalk it up to their terrorists who think acts of martyrdom is a glorious way to die, but they did so knowing innocents on their side would also be killed.

I think Hamas believes a strong Israeli retaliation will anger the Islamic world and bring other groups into the conflict. The civilians are just a pawn sacrifice.

 

[Bloom.]

I think Hamas believes a strong Israeli retaliation will anger the Islamic world and bring other groups into the conflict. The civilians are just a pawn sacrifice.

Agree.

Not saying this of Netanyahu, but some leaders likely refrain from acting this way due to the civilians.

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

The same dark web that had Russia piling 750K men into Ukraine?


Oh, we know.

What little you know about it would fit on the head of your girlfriend's dick.

 

[Bloom.]

What little you know about it would fit on the head of your girlfriend's dick.

I lost her to an older man who liked it from behind, and here you are butt hurt. Coincidence?

 

[i'vegotwinners]

I seriously doubt hundreds of thousands knew. I suspect they compartmentalized the volunteers into their own unit who had little to no contact with anyone else. We pulled off D-Day without a clue, the the A bombs, Pearl, 9/11, Tet offensive. Surprises occur.

Hamas knows electronic devices are compromised. They certainly had a code that Israel couldn't penetrate. But if this group lived and worked together, perhaps in a sealed off section of those tunnels, it would be very hard for Israel to penetrate.

In the book on Colonel Hackworth I am reading, he discusses how quickly the enemy figures things out. He used the introduction of Starlight scopes to his unit, for a couple nights his snipers ran up big numbers, then suddenly nothing. The Enemy had no idea how we were getting them, but knew we were and changed their strategy.

Everyone knows the US, China, Russia, Israel, controls the electronic space. Anyone attacking those powers is going to find some way not to use it, or so heavily hide it the other side has no idea what it means. Think "John has a long Moustache" from Longest Day.

that's some pretty pathetic analogies to say the least, both due to the massive difference in intelligence tech between now and 70 plus yrs ago, and the reality that 9-11 was done by a handful of individuals and required no equipment what so ever not provided to them.

also try to grasp the difference between "hundreds-thousands", and "hundreds of thousands".

not a minor difference.

i have no idea what Netanyahu did or didn't know, nor does anyone else here.

i merely asked an obvious question because no one else was asking it, nor would touch it with a 10,000 foot pole, and regardless, absolutely needs asked and investigated.

also, the commandos thing is one thing, and literally thousands of missiles is another

that said, Netanyahu could possibly have known something was up, and totally misgauged the scale and scope.

and just as my "follow the money" instincts kick in when money is involved, it's hard not to notice who's political objectives were served due to said inexplicable "intelligence failure", that likely wouldn't have been absent said inexplicable failures..

i have no idea what the truth is here, nor does anyone else here.

i just think hard questions need asked and answered, and in due diligence, the whole "intelligence failure" thing needs thoroughly investigated by someone with independence and not by Netanyahu's people.

 

[BradStevens]

I think Hamas believes a strong Israeli retaliation will anger the Islamic world and bring other groups into the conflict. The civilians are just a pawn sacrifice.

Hamas is calling on people in Gaza to form a human shield at the border. They hide among their civilian populace, in schools, refugee camps, hospitals. They think it glorious for their civilians to sacrifice for Allah just like they do.

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

Don't be obtuse. It was the same group that had the info about Billy Donavan's wife looking at horse farms in Southern Indiana. Or was that Rick Pitino's wife?

Double dumb.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

that's some pretty pathetic analogies to say the least, both due to the massive difference in intelligence tech between now and 70 plus yrs ago, and the reality that 9-11 was done by a handful of individuals and required no equipment what so ever not provided to them.

also try to grasp the difference between "hundreds-thousands", and "hundreds of thousands".

not a minor difference.

i have no idea what Netanyahu did or didn't know, nor does anyone else here.

i merely asked an obvious question because no one else was asking it, nor would touch it with a 10,000 foot pole, and regardless, absolutely needs asked and investigated.

also, the commandos thing is one thing, and literally thousands of missiles is another

that said, Netanyahu could possibly have known something was up, and totally misgauged the scale and scope.

and just as my "follow the money" instincts kick in when money is involved, it's hard not to notice who's political objectives were served due to said inexplicable "intelligence failure", that likely wouldn't have been absent said inexplicable failures..

i have no idea what the truth is here, nor does anyone else here.

i just think hard questions need asked and answered, and in due diligence, the whole "intelligence failure" thing needs thoroughly investigated by someone with independence and not by Netanyahu's people.

I am going to ask an obvious question, is the moon made of green cheese? That's more plausible than 3/4s of the conspiracy crap that comes here. Prove to me the moon is not green cheese. You can't use NASA, they are in on the conspiracy to hide the cheese.

This was all freaking planned and carried out in Gaza, one of the most densely populated areas on earth. Why do you think they are using all these cell phones and computers? If I can walk 10 feet and tell you what to do, why would I text you?

There is a certain racism to this, no way these Palestinians are smart enough to outfox Israel. Guess what, they did.

If Israel knew, how many Israelis? What is to stop one from spilling the beans. What do you think would happen to Bibi if the nation found out he let it happen? He would be Mussolinied with his dead body hanging from lampposts.

Keep believing the Palestinians aren't smart enough to pull one over on Israel.

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

I am going to ask an obvious question, is the moon made of green cheese? That's more plausible than 3/4s of the conspiracy crap that comes here. Prove to me the moon is not green cheese. You can't use NASA, they are in on the conspiracy to hide the cheese.

This was all freaking planned and carried out in Gaza, one of the most densely populated areas on earth. Why do you think they are using all these cell phones and computers? If I can walk 10 feet and tell you what to do, why would I text you?

There is a certain racism to this, no way these Palestinians are smart enough to outfox Israel. Guess what, they did.

If Israel knew, how many Israelis? What is to stop one from spilling the beans. What do you think would happen to Bibi if the nation found out he let it happen? He would be Mussolinied with his dead body hanging from lampposts.

Keep believing the Palestinians aren't smart enough to pull one over on Israel.

Hubris.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Hubris.

Idiot who can't pour p*as out of a boot with the instructions on the sole without believing there is some Jewish conspiracy. I know Vietnam did a number on you, I know from my brother how bad that can be. But at some point you should have manned up and sought professional help for your raging paranoia.

 

[BradStevens]

Idiot who can't pour p*as out of a boot with the instructions on the sole without believing there is some Jewish conspiracy. I know Vietnam did a number on you, I know from my brother how bad that can be. But at some point you should have manned up and sought professional help for your raging paranoia.

Marv and Mass in the Octagon!

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

You think you know a lot, I'll agree with that.
Hubris.