How’s everyone feeling about the roster
- Thread starter edub72
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Actually thought he was pretty valuable last year, because our main rotation guys needed someone to direct, encourage and "show" them where to be and how to play. Hopefully that will exist within our main rotation and it won't have to come from a sub off the bench. He helped quite a bit last year, but that says more about the core guys last year than AL's skillset.
Exactly. Sure he helped last year. He helped us be 90th in Net instead of 120. Last year we had 3 guys that were good, and they all happened to be 6’7 or taller.
If we want to be elite and contending for championships, Leal will only play mop up minutes. He doesn’t play for a top 20 team.
The overall talent is better and deeper. We also assume guard play will be significantly better. If those two assumptions are correct, it comes down to Woodson and coaching.
I'm not sure CMW will use the depth correctly. He has tried subbing in waves early each season and it has not worked out well. He ends up locking in on starters and a much shortened bench, which is not unusual for teams when conference play starts, but CMW really locks in.
I'm concerned he either doesn't understand matchups or is so stubborn he refuses to change. I also question the coaching ability of his assistants. Either way, this appears to be the most complete team he's had and we will know a lot more by the end of the season.
I'm not sure CMW will use the depth correctly. He has tried subbing in waves early each season and it has not worked out well. He ends up locking in on starters and a much shortened bench, which is not unusual for teams when conference play starts, but CMW really locks in.
I'm concerned he either doesn't understand matchups or is so stubborn he refuses to change. I also question the coaching ability of his assistants. Either way, this appears to be the most complete team he's had and we will know a lot more by the end of the season.
Even if Woodson is hellbent on mass platooning, subs 6-10 are going to be Galloway, Goode, Tucker, Cupps/Newton, and Hatton. Speaks to the depth of next year’s team.
if we remain relatively injury free, this season is all about coaching.
Wut? No he doesn't, he still played too deep into the roster until feb. Yes he locks in on starters early and sticks with them but the rotation last year was still too long especially in Dec and Jan. It wasn't until Feb he cut it and the scrubs were still getting too many minutes.
Ware wasn't playing hard until he finally had a spark lit under him. Sometime in February he started playing like a draft pick. Woodson was searching for answers. He is not a great motivator, but he sees when his "starters" aren't giving everything they have.
Here's one of the better articles concerning our current roster...
www.si.com
Looking at things objectively our only real loss was Ware and supposedly that slot is filled... The key will be how all these new teammates mesh and if we have any real leadership emerge...
It's no excuses time for CMW, all the moving parts are there to win the Big Ten and make a deep run in the Tournament.
Big Ten Offseason Evaluation: Indiana Hoosiers
After NCAA Tournament appearances in his first two seasons, coach Mike Woodson’s Hoosiers had a disappointing 19-14 campaign in year three. But Woodson retained
Looking at things objectively our only real loss was Ware and supposedly that slot is filled... The key will be how all these new teammates mesh and if we have any real leadership emerge...
It's no excuses time for CMW, all the moving parts are there to win the Big Ten and make a deep run in the Tournament.
This is the strongest and deepest roster Woodson has had, by a long shot at guard. Most analysts would rate it as a Top-16 roster nationally. I don't think Woodson has to win a national championship to get IU back on the national radar, but anything short of a Sweet 16 this year would be a disappointment, and an Elite 8 is certainly not beyond imagination. Beyond that is too hard to predict. Hopefully IU won't have to face a championship contender in the second round like they did last year.
I take it you haven't looked at the other 17 teams ..
UCLA has a better and deeper roster. Illinois has as much potential talent but a few transfers that underperformed and didn't live up to hype. Indiana or Illinois is 2/3 ... UCLA is easily the front runner at this point.
Playing outside in v. inside out will be a different look. Our talented guards should increase the number of early, easy offense possessions, and deliver the uptempo offense scoring runs I thought were promised last year.
But when you have an All American talent in the post… inside out is forgivable. TJD was a war horse in the post. Ware showed enough promise to be a first round draft pick.
Post offense could benefit with double team help stretched out guarding the 3pt line.
Last year’s team didn’t develop fast enough and didn’t deliver the big wins v. weak early season opponents to protect NET and RPI rankings. That can’t happen this year.
But when you have an All American talent in the post… inside out is forgivable. TJD was a war horse in the post. Ware showed enough promise to be a first round draft pick.
Post offense could benefit with double team help stretched out guarding the 3pt line.
Last year’s team didn’t develop fast enough and didn’t deliver the big wins v. weak early season opponents to protect NET and RPI rankings. That can’t happen this year.
*sigh* ...
You don't have to have a post player to play inside out .. if a guard penetrates, he is inside. Though many think it means a post with a big, which isn't exactly wrong, in newer concept it means to emphasize attacking the lane, and has nothing to do with who is doing the attacking be it a 5'11 guard or 7'2 post.
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The “way too early” articles I’ve seen list IU ahead of UCLA when both are listed in the top 25.
Purdue is the way too early clubhouse leader for the BiG conference. Everyone else are in also ran territory, multiple places back.
Call me old fashioned… but weren’t the complaints more about not playing more 4-out or 5-out when TJD was racing to beat his defender to the block. (And thereby making slashing cuts to the basket harder to orchestrate).
Who goes to the post is a quintessential matchup question. The Pacers, Mark Jackson, commonly backed down smaller defenders.
I think we’re talking past each other.
Yeah when we posted on the block or baseline it sure did clog the lane with defenders but we also ran five out and four/one with him that helped open the lane a bit more it didn't have much impact other than on TJD because IU basically didn't have cutting slashers or the shooters to that would keep the defense honest.
Naw, just wanted to point out that definition and the concept of inside/out is changing/changed.
I agree with you though and am looking forward to seeing what he can do with finally having perimeter players that are threats.
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I don't tend to pay much attention to the popularity polls at this time. Too much weight is put on last years results. Even data based rankings are skewed by this as sites like Torvik use last years efficiencies and bumps up the minutes and usage if needed... which doesn't account for development much and isn't always a great indicator. Example: a team that loses a player that the whole offensive and defensive scheme was built around. Like Purdue. Those efficiencies will change, maybe for the better but generally for the worse. There's a lot of synergy in basketball, one piece at times can change the whole dynamic.
UCLA has a lot of talent on that squad, 13 deep....enough that saying IU has the best is very much arguable.
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13 deep,but many of them have played sparingly to this point,including their big. I think IU's roster is better when you consider experience and talent. Tucker was the #20 overall recruit in the country,and as it stands now,will be competing to be the 7th man on IU's roster. Call me a homer.
Apart from one great dunk, Heide did zilch. 3.3 points a game. .4 assists per game. He had better stats carrying Gatorade bottles.
Don’t get carried away now.
Indiana top 6 is better than any other Big Ten. Carlyle has been on some 2025 nba mock drafts in the first round. What UCLA player would start for us?
WTF knows ..
Mgbako and Ballo have an edge as they don't have obviously better players in those two positions. So 3 and 5 are probably leaning IU. But 1, 2, and 4 would be competitive and their bench is deeper.
They don't know which of their 3 former five star (or close) PGs +1 more, will be starting until they compete for that spot. 6 guys have a chance at the 2/3.... 4 guys at the 4. Depends on who develops and who doesn't and what type of player the coach wants in that role. UCLA has more options at every position except 5. Thats their biggest weakness. 3+ deep with starter level talent at 1,2,3,4
IU wasn't the only team that went shopping ..
IU probably has the edge on starting unit, or at least they are more proven. UCLA is far deeper .. They picked up the best perimeter defender in that conference from USC and the very efficient stretch four from Oregon St. and return multiple highly thought of freshman from last year.
We'll see ... fwiw I only wanted to argue that claim because it's arguable. UCLA and Illinois are as talented on paper. OSU is close ... Illinois though has a few players that did not produce relative to their hype and would need multiple breakouts .. and two first year guys they will need to rely on.
fwiw - UCLA is picked higher than IU in every people poll and metric currently, right? Why? They had a shit season last year too with a very young team. You're just not as familiar with them as you are IU.
It's better to argue if we are best or 2nd on paper than what we've been arguing in previous seasons..
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True enough. IU is projected to be a deep team this year … and IU needs to be deep to keep fresh legs on the floor.
Got to remember, though…..
“Last year was a good year.”
“I’ve done all you can do in basketball.”
That’s the concerning part. You keep up that mindset, I wonder if you are going to push your team, never accept mediocrity and coach like losing actually bothers you and the program?
UCLA was in the pac 12 last year right? Didn't Rice win FOTY in that conference? He being a 1,I would have to give IU the lean there also.
All speculation at this point but it is going to be fun to see the BIG climb out of the crapper.
Except for ESPN, they have Indiana at 18 and UCLA at 24. Illinois no where to be seen.
www.espn.com
Men's WTE Top 25: The biggest question for each ranked team
Can Kansas find the right combo? Can Flagg prove he's the best player in the country? Here are key questions for each top-25 team two months before the season.
I would put his first team better than this current roster!
You take Arizona away from the Pac 12, it was a very weak conference. Wash St, finished second but their SOS was in the 80's compared to IU's in the 20's. and Stanford was piss poor, Period!
And?.....has nothing to do with the topic we were discussing. Go away
We'll know a bunch more after they play in that ballroom...(Imperial Arena) in the Bahamas...Till then it just looks good on paper....
Agreed. I was watching a few Stanford games from last year,I had no idea Carlyle was that quick. He very well could be next years leading scorer. Also,anyone who looks at his 3pt% and automatically says he can't shoot,needs to look at the shot. There's 0 chance he doesn't brings that # up(not saying he's going to light it up from 3,but he will be better) Another thing that caught me off guard is how well he finishes at the rim for his size. He has a hint of Allen Iverson in him with the ball in his hands and the ability to get to and score at the rim,and in midrange. Really think he and Mbako will lead the scoring this season.
The 5 core guys weren't the problem. You're just making shit up. He supplied leadership but wasn't a maestro directing the orchestra or anything. They were top 20 in overall efficiency nationally last year, spent most of the season as a top ten lineup, with a high of 3rd while we lost 4 in a row.
The problem was the 3 of the 5 bench players who Woodson kept playing ... Sparks, Gunn and Banks were extremely ineffective. So much so that a starting lineup with top 3 to 20 efficiency dropped the team to 91st overall and that Woodson would put more than one of them in at the same time. He needs a data analyst on the staff. Coming from the pros I'm surprised he doesn't have one.
When Walker came in for Mack or Malik, we dropped appx 40 spots. which isn't great but acceptable. When Sparks came in for Ware, we dropped over 300. Banks and Gunn were in between and X and Leal didn't play enough possessions.
Remember all the 1st half leads we gave up, and the early second half comebacks only to give up points when he went to the bench again. That was all Woodson and his f**ked up rotations. He should have benched those three much earlier than he did and only played Walker and Leal.
Hope he learned something. If not hope we have enough talent to overcome the dumbass rotations he might use.
fwiw Purdue had two lineups in the top 10, at times the second with Gillis instead of TKR was the better.
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He’s really good at navigating the PNR too. Saw some JHS in him. The good thing is he can play multiple spots and score from all three levels in different ways. Will be nice having multiple ball handlers.
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