Gun Seller/Gun Manufacturer Case Moves Forward

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

@CO. Hoosier - I may have played golf with relevant officers of the court.

Old National Bank shooting victims can sue gun seller and manufacturer, judge says

Clearing its first major hurdle, a Jefferson County judge ruled Monday the victims of the 2023 Old National Bank shooting and their families have the right to sue the gun seller and manufacturer who furnished the shooter.

www.lpm.org

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

@CO. Hoosier - I may have played golf with relevant officers of the court.

Old National Bank shooting victims can sue gun seller and manufacturer, judge says

Clearing its first major hurdle, a Jefferson County judge ruled Monday the victims of the 2023 Old National Bank shooting and their families have the right to sue the gun seller and manufacturer who furnished the shooter.

www.lpm.org

Ironic. I just had a brief conversation with ONB's CEO earlier today. He was inducted into our regional Business Hall of Fame last week and I attended the ceremony.

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

Ironic. I just had a brief conversation with ONB's CEO earlier today. He was inducted into our regional Business Hall of Fame last week and I attended the ceremony.

I worked “down the street” from the Standard Gravure shootings in our first office. Then “down the street” from this one.

One strange impact of these moments was that for a day or 2, people walked silently down city streets. You feel like you are walking through a bad dream. And if you ever meet a family member of a victim, you fall silent all over again.

 

[BradStevens]

@CO. Hoosier - I may have played golf with relevant officers of the court.

Old National Bank shooting victims can sue gun seller and manufacturer, judge says

Clearing its first major hurdle, a Jefferson County judge ruled Monday the victims of the 2023 Old National Bank shooting and their families have the right to sue the gun seller and manufacturer who furnished the shooter.

www.lpm.org

I get the case against the retailer, but do you know what the claims are against the accessory manufacturers? Must be something related to their advertising?

Trying to figure out how you thread the needle on that and the proximate cause requirement for a shooting like this.

 

[hookyIU1990]

I still don't understand how this doesn't spill over into other products. Are we going to sue Chicago Cutlery and Target for selling the whacko the knife he used in the stabbing? How about GM and Tom Wood Chevrolet for selling the Tahoe used by the maniac who drives into a crowded farmers market?

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

I worked “down the street” from the Standard Gravure shootings in our first office. Then “down the street” from this one.

One strange impact of these moments was that for a day or 2, people walked silently down city streets. You feel like you are walking through a bad dream. And if you ever meet a family member of a victim, you fall silent all over again.

The current CEO (Jim Ryan) was inducted into the HoF by his mentor and predecessor, Bob Jones. During their speeches, they both mentioned the shooting in Louisville choking back tears. They both knew all of the victims personally and were very close to Tommy Elliot and Jim Tutt.

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

I get the case against the retailer, but do you know what the claims are against the accessory manufacturers? Must be something related to their advertising?

Trying to figure out how you thread the needle on that and the proximate cause requirement for a shooting like this.

Not certain - have not seen the Order yet, but initially there were allegations of violations of state law by the manufacturers, which may take them out of the federal statutory immunities. But Kentucky and Texas don’t seem to be the best states to look for a bunch of restrictions.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

I still don't understand how this doesn't spill over into other products. Are we going to sue Chicago Cutlery and Target for selling the whacko the knife he used in the stabbing? How about GM and Tom Wood Chevrolet for selling the Tahoe used by the maniac who drives into a crowded farmers market?

I won't say that I subscribe to the logic. But the argument for this is that the primary purpose of a gun (as opposed to a car or kitchen cutlery) is as a weapon. As such, those who manufacture and sell them bear a higher degree of responsibility.

I think it's pretty weak logic myself. But, then, there are a number of things about civil law that I think make little sense.

 

[All4You]

I won't say that I subscribe to the logic. But the argument for this is that the primary purpose of a gun (as opposed to a car or kitchen cutlery) is as a weapon. As such, those who manufacture and sell them bear a higher degree of responsibility.

I think it's pretty weak logic myself. But, then, there are a number of things about civil law that I think make little sense.

When considering the right to ownership of a firearm is both constitutionally guaranteed and specifically enumerated, that a firearm's intended function and purpose is as a weapon, and that mass manufacturers of firearms are selling them almost exclusively on a wholesale basis to FFL's and NOT putting them directly in the hands of end users I don't see how the manufacturer bears responsibility if and when a firearm owner uses it for it's intended purpose. IMHO the firearm is a one off product in this country, unique for the reasons I mentioned above and I can't think of one other product where the manufacturer faces civil recourse for their product working as intended.

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

I still don't understand how this doesn't spill over into other products. Are we going to sue Chicago Cutlery and Target for selling the whacko the knife he used in the stabbing? How about GM and Tom Wood Chevrolet for selling the Tahoe used by the maniac who drives into a crowded farmers market?

Exactly!

 

[CO. Hoosier]

@CO. Hoosier - I may have played golf with relevant officers of the court.

Old National Bank shooting victims can sue gun seller and manufacturer, judge says

Clearing its first major hurdle, a Jefferson County judge ruled Monday the victims of the 2023 Old National Bank shooting and their families have the right to sue the gun seller and manufacturer who furnished the shooter.

www.lpm.org

Interesting. I can see liability arising out of the point of sale facts, but I think it would be tough to haul in manufacturers who have no consumer contact. Advertising has been a fruitful path to piercing immunity, but that is pretty limited.

Incidentally, Magpul used to be a Colorado company but they moved their operations to Wyoming because of Colorado politics.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Not certain - have not seen the Order yet, but initially there were allegations of violations of state law by the manufacturers, which may take them out of the federal statutory immunities. But Kentucky and Texas don’t seem to be the best states to look for a bunch of restrictions.

If the court just allows the question to go to the jury, the benefits of immunity are substantially gone. Those relying on federal immunity must win on Rule 12 or SJ. Otherwise, better get out the checkbook.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Not certain - have not seen the Order yet, but initially there were allegations of violations of state law by the manufacturers, which may take them out of the federal statutory immunities. But Kentucky and Texas don’t seem to be the best states to look for a bunch of restrictions.

If the court just allows the question to go to the jury, the benefits of immunity are substantially gone. Those relying on federal immunity must win on Rule 12 or SJ. Otherwise, better get out the checkbook.

Manufacturers getting jammed up under various merchandising/consumer protection acts for negligent marketing practices is just Fing stupid on the part of the manufacturers. They have total control over their messaging.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I still don't understand how this doesn't spill over into other products. Are we going to sue Chicago Cutlery and Target for selling the whacko the knife he used in the stabbing? How about GM and Tom Wood Chevrolet for selling the Tahoe used by the maniac who drives into a crowded farmers market?

Hooky it’s not just the product. It’s the marketing of that product under state law that’s jamming them up.

Hey kids. Are you being bullied at school? Do you dream of mowing down the pick up line. The Tahoe has the widest wheelbase in the industry!!!

Hyperbolic to make a point but that’s the theory that plaintiffs are traveling under with success. State merchandising practices

All4you notes intended purposes. That’s sort of the germane issue and how that is framed in marketing has been the recent/historic issue and success for plaintiffs

 

[UncleMark]

Hey kids. Are you being bullied at school? Do you dream of mowing down the pick up line. The Tahoe has the widest wheelbase in the industry!!!

Should I hate myself for loving this line?