Grandfather-clause on ‘Sexual-Harrassment’

[cryano]

Idk...can we agree to say ‘from this day forward...’

Seems like this stuff is getting more and more minute in level of offense with every woman that comes out with (keep in mind...) an accusation.

I cant determine if its safe to say
- You look nice in that dress today
- Your dress is nice today
- I saw that dress in a store, and thought it was a nice dress
- You know where that dress would look nice...at the foot of my bed...

Lines are so blurred...and why has it taken 30 years after someone became famous to bring it up.


In no way at all, am I accepting sexual abuses such as rape or forced acts by this post, so chill the phack out w that garbage...

 

[Eppy99]

#metoo

 

[largemouth]

Seen on a teeshirt, "Your breasts are staring at my eyes".

 

[kkott]

Idk...can we agree to say ‘from this day forward...’

Seems like this stuff is getting more and more minute in level of offense with every woman that comes out with (keep in mind...) an accusation.

I cant determine if its safe to say
- You look nice in that dress today
- Your dress is nice today
- I saw that dress in a store, and thought it was a nice dress
- You know where that dress would look nice...at the foot of my bed...

Lines are so blurred...and why has it taken 30 years after someone became famous to bring it up.


In no way at all, am I accepting sexual abuses such as rape or forced acts by this post, so chill the phack out w that garbage...

It's really not that hard. Your first 3 are compliments and are fine, the last one better not be said to anyone other than you intend to get in bed with, and if that's the wrong person, then you have to deal with the consequences. Of course the examples you gave are merely words, and what a lot of this is about is far more than that. Personally, seeing Al Franken go down, after all his holier than thou act for years, is pretty f'n incredible. No excuse for what the President was videotaped saying, and I'm still dumbfounded that women, in pretty large numbers, preferred to vote for that Clown over Hilary. What an amazingly unlikable woman.

There are some militant over the top feminists who hate men (and themselves), but I have no trouble ignoring them, just as I do whatever some dbag who says you can do whatever you want and grab women by their p*ssies tweets each day.

 

[hookyIU1990]

It's really not that hard. Your first 3 are compliments and are fine, the last one better not be said to anyone other than you intend to get in bed with, and if that's the wrong person, then you have to deal with the consequences. Of course the examples you gave are merely words, and what a lot of this is about is far more than that. Personally, seeing Al Franken go down, after all his holier than thou act for years, is pretty f'n incredible. No excuse for what the President was videotaped saying, and I'm still dumbfounded that women, in pretty large numbers, preferred to vote for that Clown over Hilary. What an amazingly unlikable woman.

There are some militant over the top feminists who hate men (and themselves), but I have no trouble ignoring them, just as I do whatever some dbag who says you can do whatever you want and grab women by their p*ssies tweets each day.

As a 50 year old dude that just sat through a company wide anti-harassment training seminar, I'm not going to agree that the first 3 are always fine. It all depends on the context of the conversation and previous comments. I've always kind of thought that as long a I treated female co-workers the way I'd want people to treat my mom, sister and daughter, I'd be fine. It was a real eye opener to spend an afternoon getting this stuff drilled into our head. Can't wait for the leadership/management only session next week.

 

[kkott]

As a 50 year old dude that just sat through a company wide anti-harassment training seminar, I'm not going to agree that the first 3 are always fine. It all depends on the context of the conversation and previous comments. I've always kind of thought that as long a I treated female co-workers the way I'd want people to treat my mom, sister and daughter, I'd be fine. It was a real eye opener to spend an afternoon getting this stuff drilled into our head. Can't wait for the leadership/management only session next week.

Agreed, in the workplace, if you have any doubt, don't say it. I do think the bigger concerns are repetition, position and if there's a pattern of bad behavior as a superior. Even if someone took something like that as inappropriate, if it's a rare event, I think 99.9% are going to forgive it. Which is why I don't think it's all that big a deal. Now, if you're an ass who takes advantage of his position with lower ranking folks, you're going to have problems. But, then again I work at a small company and probably would hate your seminar.

My favorite story on this type of subject was about a friend who sat in a similar training class many years ago at a company he was about to be leaving. At a break, after the trainer left, he said "does anyone else find it ironic that the trainer on sexual harassment has tit's til Tuesday? His boss, got angry and started shouting "you can't say that, you can't say that!" .... and then he burst out laughing. At the end of the day we're still human and I believe you'll generally be fine if you treat people respectfully, even if you slip up once in a while.

 

[outside shooter]

"That's a nice dress" -is OK almost always, unless you are saying this every hour, every day, to someone who has asked you to leave them alone.

"Wow, hummina, hummina, that's a nice dress, it shows off your tits" - is never OK

You can imagine some gray areas, but most serious complaints with respect to verbal harassment are nowhere near any gray area.

Plus most serious complaints involve a whole lot more than comments and instead involve groping, unwanted kisses, outright propositioning for sex, etc.

It is also always defined as a PATTERN OF BEHAVIOR, so one instance of even severe rudeness is likely not grounds for any legal trouble or job firing, unless that one instance was quite a whopper (like, actual sex)

 

[BGunn]

As a 50 year old dude that just sat through a company wide anti-harassment training seminar, I'm not going to agree that the first 3 are always fine. It all depends on the context of the conversation and previous comments. I've always kind of thought that as long a I treated female co-workers the way I'd want people to treat my mom, sister and daughter, I'd be fine. It was a real eye opener to spend an afternoon getting this stuff drilled into our head. Can't wait for the leadership/management only session next week.

That's my favorite part of corporate America, some douchebag at the top does something stupid and next thing you know we all have to go to diversity/sensitivity/compliance/ethics/anger management/sexual harassment training.

 

[hookyIU1990]

Agreed, in the workplace, if you have any doubt, don't say it. I do think the bigger concerns are repetition, position and if there's a pattern of bad behavior as a superior. Even if someone took something like that as inappropriate, if it's a rare event, I think 99.9% are going to forgive it. Which is why I don't think it's all that big a deal. Now, if you're an ass who takes advantage of his position with lower ranking folks, you're going to have problems. But, then again I work at a small company and probably would hate your seminar.

My favorite story on this type of subject was about a friend who sat in a similar training class many years ago at a company he was about to be leaving. At a break, after the trainer left, he said "does anyone else find it ironic that the trainer on sexual harassment has tit's til Tuesday? His boss, got angry and started shouting "you can't say that, you can't say that!" .... and then he burst out laughing. At the end of the day we're still human and I believe you'll generally be fine if you treat people respectfully, even if you slip up once in a while.

We're right around 100 employees and the core team of 10 has been together since 98/99. At one point they were talking about our "zero tolerance alcohol policy" within 10 feet of a side by side fridge full of beer.

That's my favorite part of corporate America, some douchebag at the top does something stupid and next thing you know we all have to go to diversity/sensitivity/compliance/ethics/anger management/sexual harassment training.

Totally pre-emptive on our part, which makes it even more unbearable.

 

[BGunn]

We're right around 100 employees and the core team of 10 has been together since 98/99. At one point they were talking about our "zero tolerance alcohol policy" within 10 feet of a side by side fridge full of beer.



Totally pre-emptive on our part, which makes it even more unbearable.

Our company is much larger and we have a 'zero tolerance smoking' policy that doesn't even allow people to smoke in their cars in public parking garages. Yet to see that enforced or challenged. Even the non-smokers called BS on that.

 

[cryano]

awww shit...and BucciMane and Matthew Berry...its Fantasy FB playoff week...not now for Matthew Berry!

 

[RBB89]

Idk...can we agree to say ‘from this day forward...’

Seems like this stuff is getting more and more minute in level of offense with every woman that comes out with (keep in mind...) an accusation.

I cant determine if its safe to say
- You look nice in that dress today
- Your dress is nice today
- I saw that dress in a store, and thought it was a nice dress
- You know where that dress would look nice...at the foot of my bed...

Lines are so blurred...and why has it taken 30 years after someone became famous to bring it up.


In no way at all, am I accepting sexual abuses such as rape or forced acts by this post, so chill the phack out w that garbage...

It is not really that difficult of a concept. Don't treat women like your own personal toys, don't go randomly grab them or touch them, and treat them like people. Why is that so difficult? Also, do you know why women are afraid to report this stuff? Because people don't believe them. People still don't believe them. People tell them to lighten up and it's "a compliment."

 

[UncleMark]

Is this still AOTF? WTF is going on?

 

[Ungar16]

Working in an office where I am the only male I worry about this stuff. My wife works with me so yeah I sexually harass her all the time. Now the others I try to keep to myself and let me wife deal with their drama. I did have an employee pass out this week and had to elevate her legs. Personally if I don't want someone saying it to my wife or daughters I am not saying it. Some men can be dogs and overhearing their stupid comments makes me feel better about where I am in life. Basically in life don't be an @$$#ole. Follow that rule and life should be much easier.

 

[AckAck]

As a 50 year old dude that just sat through a company wide anti-harassment training seminar, I'm not going to agree that the first 3 are always fine. It all depends on the context of the conversation and previous comments. I've always kind of thought that as long a I treated female co-workers the way I'd want people to treat my mom, sister and daughter, I'd be fine. It was a real eye opener to spend an afternoon getting this stuff drilled into our head. Can't wait for the leadership/management only session next week.

Ask the instructor why, when a man talks dirty to a woman it's sexual harassment, but when a woman talks dirty to a man it's $3.95 a minute.

 

[Stuffshot]

Idk...can we agree to say ‘from this day forward...’

Seems like this stuff is getting more and more minute in level of offense with every woman that comes out with (keep in mind...) an accusation.

I cant determine if its safe to say
- You look nice in that dress today
- Your dress is nice today
- I saw that dress in a store, and thought it was a nice dress
- You know where that dress would look nice...at the foot of my bed...

Lines are so blurred...and why has it taken 30 years after someone became famous to bring it up.


In no way at all, am I accepting sexual abuses such as rape or forced acts by this post, so chill the phack out w that garbage...

You left one out. I read that a celebrity (forget which) had been accused by a woman of “repeatedly” asking her out for dates and for drinks after work.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

some 17 yr olds are now required to register for life as sex offenders, because they dated a 16 yr old.

well intentioned things can get out of control.

Moore was branded a child molester by everyone on the left, including many here.

i have no idea if he had sex with a 14 yr old or not, nor does anyone else here. but he emphatically denies it.

he could be lying. so could she.

as for hitting on 17 yr olds at the mall when 32, yeah, that's kinda creepy, but does it rise to the level of "child molester"?

Moore has many ridiculous views that should make him totally unacceptable for public office, but those weren't the focus of the left.

instead, the left's strategy was just to call him a "child molester" all day every day.

for something unproven and denied and 40 yrs ago, that's very creepy.

 

[largemouth]

Working in an office where I am the only male I worry about this stuff. My wife works with me so yeah I sexually harass her all the time. Now the others I try to keep to myself and let me wife deal with their drama. I did have an employee pass out this week and had to elevate her legs. Personally if I don't want someone saying it to my wife or daughters I am not saying it. Some men can be dogs and overhearing their stupid comments makes me feel better about where I am in life. Basically in life don't be an @$$#ole. Follow that rule and life should be much easier.

Like this?

Dammit! Image censored, apparently.

 

[zeke4ahs]

I thi

some 17 yr olds are now required to register for life as sex offenders, because they dated a 16 yr old.

well intentioned things can get out of control.

Moore was branded a child molester by everyone on the left, including many here.

i have no idea if he had sex with a 14 yr old or not, nor does anyone else here. but he emphatically denies it.

he could be lying. so could she.

as for hitting on 17 yr olds at the mall when 32, yeah, that's kinda creepy, but does it rise to the level of "child molester"?

Moore has many ridiculous views that should make him totally unacceptable for public office, but those weren't the focus of the left.

instead, the left's strategy was just to call him a "child molester" all day every day.

for something unproven and denied and 40 yrs ago, that's very creepy.

Personally, I think it's creepier to assume his innocence when 9 women all said the same thing and had multiple sources to back them up. How about a 30 plus man calling a girl in high school and getting her out of class? Those women all had the same story and had many people backing them up. Do you know anyone that has been kicked out of a mall? Seriously, it's not that easy. The fact that you think it's a toss up as to who to believe here, says a lot about you and why women don't come forward.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

I thi

Personally, I think it's creepier to assume his innocence when 9 women all said the same thing and had multiple sources to back them up. How about a 30 plus man calling a girl in high school and getting her out of class? Those women all had the same story and had many people backing them up. Do you know anyone that has been kicked out of a mall? Seriously, it's not that easy. The fact that you think it's a toss up as to who to believe here, says a lot about you and why women don't come forward.

9 women were present when he had sex with a 14 yr old while 32, and even more women had reason to back them up??

are you sure of this??

sorry, i didn't realize that.

 

[zeke4ahs]

I thi

Personally, I think it's creepier to assume his innocence when 9 women all said the same thing and had multiple sources to back them up. How about a 30 plus man calling a girl in high school and getting her out of class? Those women all had the same story and had many people backing them up. Do you know anyone that has been kicked out of a mall? Seriously, it's not that easy. The fact that you think it's a toss up as to who to believe here, says a lot about you and why women don't come forward.

9 women were present when he had sex with a 14 yr old while 32, and even more women had reason to back them up??

are you sure of this??

sorry, i didn't realize that.

Perhaps you should read the original WaPo article. Because you look pretty damn foolish.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

Perhaps you should read the original WaPo article. Because you look pretty damn foolish.

link?

 

[zeke4ahs]

Perhaps you should read the original WaPo article. Because you look pretty damn foolish.

link?

Surely you're smart enough to know how to google?

 

[twenty02]

Working in an office where I am the only male I worry about this stuff. My wife works with me so yeah I sexually harass her all the time. Now the others I try to keep to myself and let me wife deal with their drama. I did have an employee pass out this week and had to elevate her legs. Personally if I don't want someone saying it to my wife or daughters I am not saying it. Some men can be dogs and overhearing their stupid comments makes me feel better about where I am in life. Basically in life don't be an @$$#ole. Follow that rule and life should be much easier.

That's great and all....But hook ups stemming from the work environment are more common than hooking up out at a bar. From my teens-mid 30s I had relationships (if you want to call it that) with women at basically every place I've ever worked....and most everyone I know has as well...including in professional office environments. Anywhere from drunken flings to a lot of marriages.

I think it's not realistic to take all of the sexualization out of the workplace. Just don't be an outright perv...well until it becomes clear that's what they want you to be.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

Surely you're smart enough to know how to google?

after 4 days of not coming up with one, i'll take that as a no, you can't come up with a link.

 

[twenty02]

after 4 days of not coming up with one, i'll take that as a no, you can't come up with a link.

LOL. It was the original investigative article on the entire issue by the Washington Post.

WGAF. That guy was ****ing disaster, even beyond the child sex. He lost, hopefully he'll soon die.

 

[jet812]

Seen on a teeshirt, "Your breasts are staring at my eyes".

“Saw”

 

[wiede]

some 17 yr olds are now required to register for life as sex offenders, because they dated a 16 yr old.

well intentioned things can get out of control.

Moore was branded a child molester by everyone on the left, including many here.

i have no idea if he had sex with a 14 yr old or not, nor does anyone else here. but he emphatically denies it.

he could be lying. so could she.

as for hitting on 17 yr olds at the mall when 32, yeah, that's kinda creepy, but does it rise to the level of "child molester"?

Moore has many ridiculous views that should make him totally unacceptable for public office, but those weren't the focus of the left.

instead, the left's strategy was just to call him a "child molester" all day every day.

for something unproven and denied and 40 yrs ago, that's very creepy.

Dude. You’re ignoring so many things.

To start, the pubs apparently thought he was good enough in Alabama to elect as the party's Representative. You mentioned this- but apparently those weren’t enough to disqualify him. He got the nomination anyway.

And, it wasn’t just a few girls. It was many- and all told the same story. Without ever meeting one another, or gaining anything from coming forward. In fact, their lives have been tougher since they came forward.

So, given that the other things Moore stood for wasn’t enough to take him down, just what the hell were the Dems supposed to do? “Dating” children as an adult (in his 30’s) should always be something that breaks people out of complacency, whether it’s not voting for Moore OR coming out to vote when ordinarily you might not vote.

The behavior of the Alabama Republican Party is the issue here. Not the dem’s behavior. To see it any other way just isn’t seeing it clearly at all. I suppose it was wrong when the Dems called out Trump’s behavior as well. It wasn’t enough to turn the OP off, apparently (based off his comments on the cooler). I guess since that was OK, it’s OK to justify not believing Moore’s accusers either?

And yes, I know. Take it to the cooler . But this is so out of line, I had to respond. It amazes me people can have a take like this. It’s either completely ignorant of how sexual assault tends to happen, or a completely tribal view. In this case, based off past history, it’s likely the tribalism thing. It’s ok when the good guys do it apparently.

 

[largemouth]

“Saw”

“Saw”

My post was "short hand" for;
This was seen printed on a t-shirt.
Maybe I should have said, I saw this on a t-shirt.
I know the difference.

 

[iubud]

That's great and all....But hook ups stemming from the work environment are more common than hooking up out at a bar. From my teens-mid 30s I had relationships (if you want to call it that) with women at basically every place I've ever worked....and most everyone I know has as well...including in professional office environments. Anywhere from drunken flings to a lot of marriages.

I think it's not realistic to take all of the sexualization out of the workplace. Just don't be an outright perv...well until it becomes clear that's what they want you to be.

That is a good point. The young checkers at the grocery store I worked at in high school and college used to work hard at competing for the teenage sackers.. I wouldn't call it harassment because I never heard anyone complain. I suppose I could come back 30 years later and claim these attractive 25-30 year old horny women assaulted us. One time I came around a corner and bumped into the young office manager. She told me, "I'll give you 15 minutes to stop that". I thought it was a good line. I probably used it a time or two myself.

That was then. Our management used to joke about it. I'm sure it is different today. High school kids hanging out with older women from the workplace isn't as acceptable today.

A lot was done in the 70's and 80's without one party expressing concern. The fear of retribution keeps many from complaining, but without the objections, the behavior continues. Nobody has an excuse today, but can we see how some situations got out of hand in the days before the term sexual harassment was used?