Does intergenerational identity affect political tribal instincts?

[Ladoga]

Impressive lineage! Are you related to John Tyler too? My mom does genealogy. Scares me sometimes.

Not a Tyler. We didn't choose our lineage and, accordingly, need not fear what its discovery discloses. If anyone asks, I tell them my people were horse thieves fugitive from Kentucky Its a wonderful journey in discovery. I treat it as history learned and visit the locations where my ancestors lived,

 

[mcmurtry66]

I really struggle with this.

I grew up in a house where all 4 boys were in one room until we were able to add a room when I got into HS. My sister got a glorified closet, and my parents had their room. Other than camping or the odd weekend trip to St. Louis or Holiday World, I don't recall ever going on a vacation. We all had jobs from the moment we were allowed to and that was the majority of our running around money after we bought most of our own clothes & haircuts and what have you. No regrets though, my parents busted their butts to provide for us and we never wanted for any necessities.

Now my kids have everything they could want. My 9 yr old basically has a nicer room than I ever had in a whole apartment in college. They've been on Caribbean vacations, have traveled around the US, and have had far more elaborate birthday parties than I care to admit (point of disagreement between me and the Mrs.). I'm trying hard to "give my kids the things I never had" without crossing the "making them lazy" line. Character is built through adversity and it's damn hard to create that character. When I was 16, I'd have LOVED to have been one of the kids that didn't have to work, could focus on sports or any other interest. But I recognize that the struggle is how you get strong enough to succeed. Unless of your course your parents are REALLY rich/connected, then you can slide into those good on good ol' fashioned nepotism/favortism.

Even if you're really rich and connected it doesn't mean your life is going to be easy: look at Mark Davis' hair. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.

 

[Bloom.]

Another thread got me thinking about how different my life is from that of my father and grandfather, both of whom spent their whole lives in one place. They both lived their entire lives, minus military service, within a mile of where they were born, as did their fathers going back to the 1860s when my grandfather's grandfather (I think I got that right) moved to northern Indiana from Pennsylvania.

Each son's life and time is different than his father's, but I wonder what the effect of rapid technological change will be on this or has been? The difference between my son's life and my dad's growing up is quite enormous--my son has never know a life without smart phones, HD TV, amazing video games, On Demand TV, etc. Since 1st grade, his school has provided him with an iPad. Imagine at the pace of technological change, how the differences in upbringing is going to change as time goes on. Contrast that with a couple of hundred years ago, when each generation essentially lived the same life as the previous one.

How does all this affect how closely we are tied to our fathers and grandfathers and sons? Does it lead to a loss of identity—that derived from family, of this is who I am, I’m a [fill in your last name here]? Does that kind of lack of connection lead to increased mobility, thereby leading to more disconnectedness, less affection for the land and place of your birth and family? Is this a good thing—a method of decreasing tribalism? Or do we humans need tribalism of some sort, and so in lacking the familial or regional identity and tribe, do we look for it in the political? Regarding this last question, I guess you could poll people (if polling worked) and analyze the degree of political tribalness in those who also feel or don’t feel tribal about their homeland/region. It might be people have varying degrees of triableness as an attribute?

Outside the abstract level, I'd love to hear stories or anecdotes about other poster's fathers or grandfathers, how they came from a different time or had a different attitude, whatever. Here's one from me:

My grandparents watched me when I was little, pre-elementary school, during the day. I can still picture their family room with their black and white flecked “davenport” and grandpas claw footed, green tufted leather chair. He would sit in it, and I would sit in his lap, and he would hold me and I felt like I belonged. He smelled of barbershop aftershave and grease and sweat. He would sometimes smack his lips, trying to wet them, and when I saw him later in life, when it was less frequent and it wasn't cool to spend time with your grandparents, he would always stand up and say “Great Day! Look who’s here.” When he sneezed, he would exclaim “horseandbuggy” while he exploded into a handkerchief he carried in his pocket at all times. He wore his pants at his waste, and in later life when his belly protruded, he would wear leisure pants made out polyester that would cover that belly but were still cut in a dress pant style—I can’t recall him ever wearing jeans.

Once, when a teenager, I was late for tennis practice and the car didn’t work. It was during the day and mom and dad were gone and I must have been driving dad’s truck. Grandpa came down to the house and loaned me his car. But instead of driving him home, he insisted he’d walk the mile or two back and just had me drop him at the corner of my street and the county road that ran by his house, about two miles away. I have that image stuck in my head and it pops back up every once in awhile like one of those Facebook memory posts: as I drove off in the opposite direction in his blue 70s Dodge boat that lacked power steering, I saw him just walking away, his back to me. My tall grandpa (much taller than me) nonchalantly walking down that busy, two lane county road, cars approaching at 50 miles an hour, and him focused on the road ahead, head held high, not an ounce of self-consciousness apparent. He was just doing what needed to be done. Maybe I'm romanticizing him on this silly point, I don't know, but I wish I were more like him.

Haven't read other replies, but access to education, communication and transportation has been constantly shaping this country. Education and communication leads to job opportunities that may be farther away, and communication and transportation advances have made that easier to consider.

I've never lived far from my mother's side of the family, and it has influenced many decisions by us all. (Never that far from my father's side either.) It's easier when you live in a great place that can provide just about anything you'd want, professionally, personally, etc. There is no reason for me to consider moving.

I know families that feel disconnected with distance, but I also know families that thrive on the distance because it gives them places to go. I also think the idea of 'home' influences a lot of that. If you just know one home as a child, it's easier to view that as a hub. The question is does one feel disconnected being away from that, or do they feel connected knowing it's still there?

I never felt connected to a home beyond the city I grew up in--Carmel. I did kind of hate leaving my house after my parents divorced, but there was so much close to the apartments my mother moved to, it was fun. I lived on a golf course, across the street from a full half court basketball court. I could bike to Putt-Putt, two arcades, the video store, the movie theater and many fast food places.

As an only child, that was part of it too.

Moving around in my 20's I was never too far -- Zionsville, Fishers, north side of Indy. When I bought, I bought in Carmel. Home.

Seeing where classmates and former players of mine have lived and had kids, their sense of home is shaped by their children's perception of home. Just listening to them talk. I know a few people who will be moving back to Carmel/Indy when their kids graduate, so they can be closer to their parents.

I don't know if they feel disconnected, but just the case of aging parents in need of more help. However, communication and transportation make it easy for them to effectively abandon where their kids call home, because they're going other places for college to start.

My grandmother is 99. Turns 100 in August (hopefully). I think of what she's seen over 99 years. It's crazy to ponder. My grandfather and her left Tipton with my mother in the late 40's. My mother was 5. My uncle was born in Michigan, but they left and moved to Carmel when he was 6, my mother was 13 in the late 50's. Home is where their family was.


Yours is a deeper question for sure. I'm sure they're have been studies, but I'd imagine it depends on the family. That's why we each have our own version of it. There was a time, as you alluded to, when hardly anyone ever wandered very far, let alone moved away.

Oddly, I think COVID has helped family who live far apart come closer together. If nothing else familiarity of things like Zoom and using for other communication needs likely spurred a lot more family and friend 'get togethers'. I know it did for me, and I consider myself a mostly early adopter of tech. (I just have a face for radio.)

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

I'd read a book about your dad. I'd tap Pat Conroy to pen it

I think Updike cribbed some Rabbit from Marvin's dad.

 

[NPT]

My grandmother is 99. Turns 100 in August (hopefully). I think of what she's seen over 99 years.

My wife's uncle turned 101 in December. He was a professor at Colorado SU (CoH has met him) and he still goes into his office and is writing another book. He just got over covid back in December. He could be a rich man if he patented some of the things he came up with but he didn't and had no interest in it.

 

[mcmurtry66]

My wife's uncle turned 101 in December. He was a professor at Colorado SU (CoH has met him) and he still goes into his office and is writing another book. He just got over covid back in December. He could be a rich man if he patented some of the things he came up with but he didn't and had no interest in it.

Love it! Stay active and lift weights as long as possible

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Love it! Stay active and lift weights as long as possible

And marry younger! isn’t that part of super-cardio.

 

[mcmurtry66]

And marry younger! isn’t that part of super-cardio.

Lol. So far it's aging me!

 

[NPT]

Love it! Stay active and lift weights as long as possible

Does a fork and spoon count? If so, I'm in good shape.

Lol. So far it's aging me!
Are you bragging?

 

[mcmurtry66]

Does a fork and spoon count? If so, I'm in good shape.

Lol. So far it's aging me!
Are you bragging?

Lol the opposite. There's a mismatch in energy levels. I'd do well with a laptop and a tv in a nursing home. She wants to go go go

 

[NPT]

Lol the opposite. There's a mismatch in energy levels. I'd do well with a laptop and a tv in a nursing home. She wants to go go go

Well if it's the right thing that's good. If it's shopping that's bad.

 

[Bloom.]

My wife's uncle turned 101 in December. He was a professor at Colorado SU (CoH has met him) and he still goes into his office and is writing another book. He just got over covid back in December. He could be a rich man if he patented some of the things he came up with but he didn't and had no interest in it.

Awesome to be that active at 101. My grandmother isn't that capable. Still has most of her long term memory. Short term is shot. Mobility is pretty shot, but she still enjoys watching golf.

 

[Spartans9312]

Awesome to be that active at 101. My grandmother isn't that capable. Still has most of her long term memory. Short term is shot. Mobility is pretty shot, but she still enjoys watching golf.

If you’re lucky enough to have your grandparents still alive, please treasure them and know how blessed you are.
I still have my maternal grandmother…she’ll be 92 this month

 

[Bloom.]

If you’re lucky enough to have your grandparents still alive, please treasure them and know how blessed you are.
I still have my maternal grandmother…she’ll be 92 this month

Three of four reached their 90's. The fourth died at 73.

 

[Spartans9312]

Three of four reached their 90's. The fourth died at 73.

71, 79, 83.
The 83 year old drank whiskey from daylight to dark after getting back from WWII. Genetics matter

 

[DANC]

71, 79, 83.
The 83 year old drank whiskey from daylight to dark after getting back from WWII. Genetics matter

Smoking, which caused heart disease, was a large factor on my father's side. Cancer on my mother's.

Something's gonna get ya.

I'm in my late 60s and can't believe how many of my HS classmates have passed. Being in remission from kidney cancer myself (not from any genetic factor, I'm told, and no family history of it) I think life is just a crap shoot.