Grade the season ?

[rocketo]

I somewhat agree. The 2020 team would have been about a 10 seed in the tourney. Maybe they would have won a game or two and given the program momentum.

I don't think Archie was the right person for the job....underestimated how poor a fit it was from a personality perspective.

However, anyone that thinks this year was some big improvement over Archie's last 3 seasons is lying to themselves. We are nowhere near a consistently relevant program right now.

You seriously don’t think this year was a big improvement over Archie’s tenure? Not just talking about the big wins during the season, but finally get back to B1G tourney wins, getting into the NCAA tourney, actually winning an NCAA tourney game… Then the clearly improved defense, consistent workman’s like effort by this team, and the culture. The message from the coaching staff to the public is also a significant improvement.

Clearly you are entitled to your own opinion, but I can’t come up with much that was better under CAM…

 

[SIhoosier26]

You seriously don’t think this year was a big improvement over Archie’s tenure? Not just talking about the big wins during the season, but finally get back to B1G tourney wins, getting into the NCAA tourney, actually winning an NCAA tourney game… Then the clearly improved defense, consistent workman’s like effort by this team, and the culture. The message from the coaching staff to the public is also a significant improvement.

Clearly you are entitled to your own opinion, but I can’t come up with much that was better under CAM…

Either he's just trolling or he's somehow related to Archie.

The Archie tenure was an absolute trainwreck that the program is still trying to recover from.

 

[Columbus-Boiler]

B. A lot of the same problems but stuck with a lot of the same players. Similar in a lot of ways to year prior but this time strong finish instead of complete fold job. C+ before the BTT, grade goes up to a B after winning play-in game despite first round shellacking. I think he will talk TJD into coming back and that will give him the foundation to grow on this year's record.

 

[TommyCracker]

I agree with your analysis, except that I'm ready to move on from Race. That said, I think you're a grade inflator. 9th place in the BT and the worst tourney loss in IU history, by far, merits a D+ for performance on the floor only.

If you take into consideration the recruiting it took to get TJD, Race, and JG back and Johnson in, I'd give it a B+. He avoided disaster and a complete rebuild.

I don't disagree.

I gave him an A+ going into the season as this could have been pretty ugly, but he kept the big fish (TJD) and most of the other decent sized fish...while seemingly killing it in the transfer portal (X was considered one of the best overall players much less point guards available).

Everybody complained last year about how bad our point guard play was. Xavier was the best transfer point.

So yeah, this team was much more complete than last year's team. Sure Durham and Franklin were losses, but what we were bringing back and bringing in was considered an upgrade in talent.

However our offense was worse than all four years of Archie and losing so badly to such a well coached team in a well played game yesterday brings up all of my worries about an NBA coach in the college game.

 

[twenty02]

Either he's just trolling or he's somehow related to Archie.

The Archie tenure was an absolute trainwreck that the program is still trying to recover from.

Hell, the team two years ago was better than this one. And if not for a miraculous second half comeback vs Michigan..... this team would have been maybe 1-2 games better than the prior year team (once you eliminate the cupcake games from both seasons).

It's not a troll at all.... it was great that we had some magic in the BTT for and snuck into the tourney. That's positive momentum.

This team was marginally better. And it was a very small margin. Let's not pretend it was anything else.

 

[SoccerSammy]

Hell, the team two years ago was better than this one. And if not for a miraculous second half comeback vs Michigan..... this team would have been maybe 1-2 games better than the prior year team (once you eliminate the cupcake games from both seasons).

It's not a troll at all.... it was great that we had some magic in the BTT for and snuck into the tourney. That's positive momentum.

This team was marginally better. And it was a very small margin. Let's not pretend it was anything else.

Better fight and defense is unquestionable

 

[twenty02]

Better fight and defense is unquestionable

I would consider Kpom a fairly unbiased comparison.

Ending rankings:

2019 - 52 (no tourney)
2020 - 34 (10 seed)
2021 - 50 (no tourney)
2022 - 44 (12 seed/last 4 in)

Whatever improvement there may have been.... it's very incremental.... and really not worth arguing about, IMO. The reality is that if we don't come back in that Michigan game the mood of this discussion is entirely different.

Archie definitely wasn't the guy and it was time to move on. We are way too early to know how Woody does here. Glad we got some positive momentum and hopefully we can build from here.

 

[SoccerSammy]

I would consider Kpom a fairly unbiased comparison.

Ending rankings:

2019 - 52 (no tourney)
2020 - 34 (10 seed)
2021 - 50 (no tourney)
2022 - 44 (12 seed/last 4 in)

Whatever improvement there may have been.... it's very incremental.... and really not worth arguing about, IMO. The reality is that if we don't come back in that Michigan game the mood of this discussion is entirely different.

Archie definitely wasn't the guy and it was time to move on. We are way too early to know how Woody does here. Glad we got some positive momentum and hopefully we can build from here.

Can’t argue with any of that

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

IU was much like the 21 squad but the extra wins, IMO, came due to the players giving more effort for their coach because they genuinely like playing for Woody. Many of the same woes but I think these guys truly didn’t like playing for the little guy and ended up going through the motions.

Apart from a late surge by XJ, the guard play was worse this season. Really wished Armaan had stayed.

 

[SoccerSammy]

IU was much like the 21 squad but the extra wins, IMO, came due to the players giving more effort for their coach because they genuinely like playing for Woody. Many of the same woes but I think these guys truly didn’t like playing for the little guy and ended up going through the motions.

Apart from a late surge by XJ, the guard play was worse this season. Really wished Armaan had stayed.

I believe Aljami would have succeeded under Woodson

 

[bailey777]

I would consider Kpom a fairly unbiased comparison.

Ending rankings:

2019 - 52 (no tourney)
2020 - 34 (10 seed)
2021 - 50 (no tourney)
2022 - 44 (12 seed/last 4 in)

Whatever improvement there may have been.... it's very incremental.... and really not worth arguing about, IMO. The reality is that if we don't come back in that Michigan game the mood of this discussion is entirely different.

Archie definitely wasn't the guy and it was time to move on. We are way too early to know how Woody does here. Glad we got some positive momentum and hopefully we can build from here.

Archie wasn't the guy by year three it was clear but that's the problem with hiring a mid major flavor of the month. It's a total roll if the dice and we lost.

 

[T.M.P.]

I don't disagree.

I gave him an A+ going into the season as this could have been pretty ugly, but he kept the big fish (TJD) and most of the other decent sized fish...while seemingly killing it in the transfer portal (X was considered one of the best overall players much less point guards available).

Everybody complained last year about how bad our point guard play was. Xavier was the best transfer point.

So yeah, this team was much more complete than last year's team. Sure Durham and Franklin were losses, but what we were bringing back and bringing in was considered an upgrade in talent.

However our offense was worse than all four years of Archie and losing so badly to such a well coached team in a well played game yesterday brings up all of my worries about an NBA coach in the college game.

The difference is the team didn't quit. Every team Miller had became disgruntled as the season developed and eventually quit on the coach.

From a PoV where we thought Kopp and Stew were going to contribute; yes we under achieved. From a better latter perspective seeing their limitations; we held serve or slightly underperformed.

Too early to make any judgement and IMO damn silly to even try. To do so ignores the coaching paths of many great coaches and every argument on IU internet boards for the last 20 years. Do we really need to mention them again for the 1,000th time? Do we really need to counter with the few who had instant success for a 1,000th time? Do we then have to mention the ones who had instant success and then failed, for the 1,000th time .. If we do we haven't learned shit in 20 years .. the lesson is .. we don't know shit.

Plus, what's the purpose? No one anywhere at this point can do anything but guess. Are we trying to be prophets or something? Does it change anything if someone guesses correctly? Do they win a prize? Internet street cred?

Let the coach, coach. It takes more than one season, one team. Anything decided at this point is nothing but a guess at best or the butthurt ramblings of the ignorant at worse.

Let's have this conversation after he's had multiple years, and multiple teams ... we'll know when we know..

fwiw - Not directed at you, more the general consensus.

 

[SIhoosier26]

I would consider Kpom a fairly unbiased comparison.

Ending rankings:

2019 - 52 (no tourney)
2020 - 34 (10 seed)
2021 - 50 (no tourney)
2022 - 44 (12 seed/last 4 in)

Whatever improvement there may have been.... it's very incremental.... and really not worth arguing about, IMO. The reality is that if we don't come back in that Michigan game the mood of this discussion is entirely different.

Archie definitely wasn't the guy and it was time to move on. We are way too early to know how Woody does here. Glad we got some positive momentum and hopefully we can build from here.

You mention Kenpom yet Kenpom has IU's defense at 22 and the best in the BIG10, not 44. I'm not sure where you got those numbers from.

Also, why are you assuming that in 2020 we were a 10 seed when most had us as a bubble team heading into the tournament?

Agree with most of what you are saying but watching this team this year the improvement from Archie to Mike seemed exponential.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

IU probably should have given him another year, and used that season to develop a list of potential coaches in case things didn’t improve.

I created a thread yesterday entitled "now that the emotion has calmed" that explains clearly what would have happened had Dolson given AM another year. Read it and you will better understand what a spectacular disaster that would have been.

 

[Hoosiers Rising]

For a first season I would give it an A. We were close to being a very good team. The team had some serious holes but I thought they were able to mask those for the most part and only two games were soundly beaten.

 

[twenty02]

You mention Kenpom yet Kenpom has IU's defense at 22 and the best in the BIG10, not 44. I'm not sure where you got those numbers from.

Also, why are you assuming that in 2020 we were a 10 seed when most had us as a bubble team heading into the tournament?

Agree with most of what you are saying but watching this team this year the improvement from Archie to Mike seemed exponential.

That's Kpom overall team rankings. Not defense.

 

[ReadHall84]

Hell, the team two years ago was better than this one. And if not for a miraculous second half comeback vs Michigan..... this team would have been maybe 1-2 games better than the prior year team (once you eliminate the cupcake games from both seasons).

It's not a troll at all.... it was great that we had some magic in the BTT for and snuck into the tourney. That's positive momentum.

This team was marginally better. And it was a very small margin. Let's not pretend it was anything else.

"If not for the miraculous second half come back vs Michigan"? You mean it didn't really happen? It DID and then they beat IL too. The team put it together when they had to and nearly beat Iowa too.

 

[twenty02]

The difference is the team didn't quit. Every team Miller had became disgruntled as the season developed and eventually quit on the coach.

From a PoV where we thought Kopp and Stew were going to contribute; yes we under achieved. From a better latter perspective seeing their limitations; we held serve or slightly underperformed.

Too early to make any judgement and IMO damn silly to even try. To do so ignores the coaching paths of many great coaches and every argument on IU internet boards for the last 20 years. Do we really need to mention them again for the 1,000th time? Do we really need to counter with the few who had instant success for a 1,000th time? Do we then have to mention the ones who had instant success and then failed, for the 1,000th time .. If we do we haven't learned shit in 20 years .. the lesson is .. we don't know shit.

Plus, what's the purpose? No one anywhere at this point can do anything but guess. Are we trying to be prophets or something? Does it change anything if someone guesses correctly? Do they win a prize? Internet street cred?

Let the coach, coach. It takes more than one season, one team. Anything decided at this point is nothing but a guess at best or the butthurt ramblings of the ignorant at worse.

Let's have this conversation after he's had multiple years, and multiple teams ... we'll know when we know..

fwiw - Not directed at you, more the general consensus.

Yes, there's zero reason to argue about any of it.... other than to just argue for sport, which is lame. We can all agree the season ended better than it was looking like 10 days ago, but that's about it.

 

[82hoosier]

I think part of Woody's grade for this year will depend on who is on campus for next season. Either way he is turning the program around.

 

[Fpeaugh2]

Anything above a C is just pure blind irrational sunshine.

I don’t expect to make the tournament next year and the grumbling will start getting loud.

 

[turney333]

That's Kpom overall team rankings. Not defense.

although that team and its offense was almost entirely dependent on Green getting hot. If Green was a no show, and he frequently was, that offense was far worse than what we had this year. Take out Green’s 4 or 5 best games, and the Kenpom rating probably drop 30 spots

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Thought's on Coach Woodson first season.
Possibly your expectations for next year..And the future..

A-/B+ through the first PU game. They beat PU and OSU when they were top five, or so, were 14-4, and every loss was close and could have been a win. I'd give the season a D/D- for the next 8 games, ending with the bad loss to OSU. There were six more losses, including a five game losing streak. That included a couple of really bad losses and some close ones, but they were losses. I'd give them a pass on the NW game and I give Woodson a lot of credit for sitting five players for breaking the rules. That actually may have been the moment when his players knew, without a doubt, that Woodson would hold them accountable and may have led to strong end of the season. It might have been a key moment for the rest of the Woodson era. I give the season another B+ from the first game after the OSU loss through the Wyoming game. The team played as tough as it played early in the season. They won some games with their backs against the wall. They went to the third game of the BTT and gave Iowa all they could handle (lucky 3 pointer by Bohanon) and were very close to getting a fourth game. They played well and beat a very good Wyoming team. They were solid. They didn't play well in their last one St. Mary's played great. There are a lot of factors in that and there is no reason to argue about that again. They were 1-1 in their first NCAA tournament play since 2016. I give the season a solid B overall, and I hope for A level seasons going forward.

 

[go_iu]

C, and that's generous. But for the BTT, I would have said D or, at best, C-.

 

[B1G_Fan]

C, and that's generous. But for the BTT, I would have said D or, at best, C-.

I would have given it a D- prior to the BTT.

 

[IUgradman]

B-

Made the tourney and ended losing streaks against Michigan and Purdue but blew multiple leads in the second half of games.

 

[Hatchets7times]

Sweet 16 in year one with this roster? Yeah your expectations, while admirable and probably where we all want to be, are completely out of whack with reality imo.

I don’t think there is a coach on the planet who would have taken this team to the sweet 16 if all injuries remained the same.

Crap happens in the tournament every year that opens up avenues..
Did you have St.Peters in it ?
I'm not saying we were sweet sixteen good..
Just if we'd kinda lucked into it..

 

[Beorik]

Crap happens in the tournament every year that opens up avenues..
Did you have St.Peters in it ?
I'm not saying we were sweet sixteen good..
Just if we'd kinda lucked into it..

Agree with that. Obviously things happen. It would have been great to see it happen for us.

 

[TR32]

2023-24 season?

D grade this year.

Trying to stick with grading the season and not next year.

 

[GeddyHoosier]

2023-24 season?

D grade this year.

Trying to stick with grading the season and not next year.

D is about right. Not a complete failure, but not too many bright spots.

 

[red hornet]

D is about right. Not a complete failure, but not too many bright spots.

Woodson's certainly been in the limelight

 

[ulrey]

42

Dumb.

 

[Harpo Marxist]

Grading this season includes preparing for next season, i.e. recruiting. D. Participation trophy, bought and paid for with NIL money.

 

[Hatchets7times]

D - and that's on a curve...

 

[Tammany Hall]

A lot of NIL and resources.
No post-season.
No high school recruits.
No sign of building anything.
Attacked fanbase.

F, a failing grade.

 

[Vern Pain]

It was just nice to see a Fepaugh post again right?