Grade the season ?

[salient43]

C. We met the bare minimum expectations. Next year isn't looking rosy at this point. Some decent recruits coming in but hard to see how we can take a significant step forward overall as a team next season with expected departures. The upside is that now that Woody and team have established themselves there may be some opportunities to get better quick with all the transfers.

 

[dbmhoosier]

What are the qualifications?

A resume of consistently taking a P5 school to the dance like Kelvin Sampson. Hopefully without the shenanigans

 

[Bippy]

B. For the season I think the team accomplished what they were capable of. Could have won a few more of the close games maybe if we'd had some better luck, but luck isn't a strategy.

Coach Woodson took a team with limited talent and a lot of one-dimensional players and got them to play defense and not give up. That may not have shown tonight but you don't judge a season by one game.

We beat Purdue, won two BTT games, and made the tournament with a new head coach. I had hoped maybe we had lit a fire in the last week, but whatever fuel we were burning ran out tonight.

Upwards and onwards. Expectations will be higher next year but all in all this season went a little better than I thought it might.

That was a very fair and accurate assessment.
Thank you

 

[SIhoosier26]

I somewhat agree. The 2020 team would have been about a 10 seed in the tourney. Maybe they would have won a game or two and given the program momentum.

I don't think Archie was the right person for the job....underestimated how poor a fit it was from a personality perspective.

However, anyone that thinks this year was some big improvement over Archie's last 3 seasons is lying to themselves. We are nowhere near a consistently relevant program right now.

If you don’t consider winning 21 games, making the tournament and winning a game an improvement over last year’s 12-15 debacle then I question what your parameters are. Hell we never beat Purdue or Michigan the entire time Archie was here and Woodson ended both of those streaks.

Woodson got the players to buy in and play hard for him all season. That alone makes him an improvement over Archie. This team also finished 30 spots higher in def efficiency than even Archies’s best team. Woodson did all of that in his first year.

Give it a rest with needing some “big improvement,” it was enough improvement for year one. We aren’t very talented.

 

[Hatchets7times]

B+ overall.

Woodson talked almost everyone into returning after most at least considered transferring. Woodson has recruited at a much higher level out the gate than I anticipated considering the state of our program over the last 10 years (2 top 25 recruits in less than a recruiting cycle!). Our defense was absolutely twice as good as I anticipated coming into the year. Beat Purdue! Won 2 BTT games. Got in the NCAA tournament in year one.

Hate this last loss but impressed overall with year one and the direction of the program.

Dang...It would have taken a sweet 16 for me to go that far.
We just got beat by the widest margin in tournament history..
Lot's of those headlines this morning..
Not a good look.

 

[The Vid]

B-

Defensive stats are encouraging. I think it’s a minor miracle Woody got X to perform that well down the stretch. I doubt many coaches could get to him like that.

There are two major holes in the starting lineup that need to be addressed. Kopp didn’t score a single point in the tournament and gets torched on D? Can’t happen. Woody may come to regret his commitment to Kopp and Stewart this year.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

anyone that thinks this year was some big improvement over Archie's last 3 seasons is lying to themselves. We are nowhere near a consistently relevant program right now.

Nowhere near? Like Woodson was gonna come in, flip a switch and, suddenly, we’re all a sudden Top 5 again?

We are where we are as a result of the instability and mismanagement of the program over the last 20+ years. This year Woodson laid the foundation to build it back - with the defense, with holding players accountable . . .

This was NEVER going to be an overnight process. If one TRULY wants to be consistently relevant, you don’t want it to be.

 

[twenty02]

If you don’t consider winning 21 games, making the tournament and winning a game an improvement over last year’s 12-15 debacle then I question what your parameters are. Hell we never beat Purdue or Michigan the entire time Archie was here and Woodson ended both of those streaks.

Woodson got the players to buy in and play hard for him all season. That alone makes him an improvement over Archie. This team also finished 30 spots higher in def efficiency than even Archies’s best team. Woodson did all of that in his first year.

Give it a rest with needing some “big improvement,” it was enough improvement for year one. We aren’t very talented.

I'm happy we won some games this last week and had something fun to watch in March.

 

[B1G_Fan]

C

Sneaking into the tournament made for a passing grade.

 

[TR32]

B-
Would have been C except for recognizing the difficulty of getting non-winners to believe they are good enough to win.

One more win would have been the 10-10 "B" first season with a talent like TJD.
2 more wins= good season.
3 more wins= Woodson is going to be the solution
4 more wins= beating Syracuse, Wisconsin on the road, Rutgers at home, and Northwestern ,Ohio State (away) , or Iowa. That would have been an "A" , super job

I expect anyone who remembers Knight knows this team would have been about 12-8 in conference. It is still hard to not expect a coach to get the most out of IU.

 

[bawlmer]

Average (C).

Impressed with the defense. That was the highlight for this team. Hopefully we can sustain that with next year's roster.

Also impressed that Coach was able to pull the team out of the late-season collapse in the BTT. He got TJD back to playing well, which led to us all getting a taste again of what it's like to be relevant in March.

Offense was well below average. Limited by mediocre talent, especially versatility. But not much imagination in line-ups or schemes.

The key to getting us back to where we need to be will be talent development. Saw some improvement with X, TJD, and Race. But not enough from the bench to make this year's team much different from last year other than the surge in the BTT. Very disappointing that as unproductive as Stewart and Kopp were all year, no one could displace them in the rotation. Leaves some big questions for next year.

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

You knew that Woody is only going to be be here for 2-3 years? And you knew that we knew that too?

I am embarrassed to say that I didn't know any of this.

Well…consider yourself embarrassed. It’s a transition hire. Was always a transition hire. Woody has about 3-4 years in him and then Fife takes over. Woody’s goal is to get IU relevant and stable in recruiting and then Mr. Fife takes the reins.
I think even Cavanagh might have an odds line in that going right now.
Were you of the mindset that a 63 year old coach was going to be here 10 years? C’mon. Read between the lines here.

 

[still4IU]

I honestly wish Archie was still here. Not sure what grade that equates to.

Stupidest thing I ha e heard in LONG LONG time.

 

[IUbball_lifer]

A solid B. He salvaged the roster. Established defensive principles and intensity. Improved competitiveness. Made the tourney.
On the negative side, he failed to learn how to tweak lineups from his college coach. He stubbornly threw Stewart and Kopp out there in the starting lineup every game. And he didn’t give Leal a chance to help our shooting.

 

[ReadHall84]

Solid B. Beat Purdue, Mich, OSU and actually won two Big 10 tourney games! Made the dance! But if TJD and Race leave, Woody has NOTHING underneath. He needs to score big with some transfers.

 

[Jg48]

B simply because we played harder than Archie’s teams ever played. Talent is marginal and game management was meh but overall a positive trajectory

You have to keep in mind that CMW had to put together a team. He got Kopp and Durr from the transfer portal He talked TJD and Race into staying. Stewart and Geronimo also had to be persuaded to stay and Bates was surprising pickup.
Given the cards he was dealt, Woody did a good job under the circumstances. He did not inherit a Tourney team. A "B" is fair. Getting to the tourney was a significant achievement for this squad. Hopefully, Woody listens to the excellent college coaches on his staff and makes adjustments to his coaching technique. We shall see.

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

Woody should book a flight to Europe, scour the countries for any big guy with shooting touch and a last name ending in “vich.”

Stepbackovich, Reboundovich, Softhandsovich. There out there. Go find them.

 

[UTFO]

Thought's on Coach Woodson first season.
Possibly your expectations for next year..And the future..

B I think.
Was going to be a C if we flamed out in BTT.

We ran into a buzzsaw last night running on fumes.

 

[Harry Hondo]

I honestly wish Archie was still here. Not sure what grade that equates to.

You get an F.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

C+, mainly because my expectations skyrocketed when TJD came back.

It's very rare to have an upperclassmen all American talent.

XJ was considered the best point guard in the portal.

Kopp and Stewart were experienced key players...but they never really gelled and that killed this team.

I didn't believe the conference was that good (and I think that will play out in the tourney). I thought this year was a transition year for the conference after losing so much from last year so...I had higher expectations coming into this season that ended up as....meh.

I think we're really going to miss TJD next year (and Race).

Gonna need Geronimo, Bates, Galloway and Lander to take a major leap next year. They have the high school reputation to be good to great college players but, they need to realize their potential immediately.

I'm not confident that will happen.

I agree with your analysis, except that I'm ready to move on from Race. That said, I think you're a grade inflator. 9th place in the BT and the worst tourney loss in IU history, by far, merits a D+ for performance on the floor only.

If you take into consideration the recruiting it took to get TJD, Race, and JG back and Johnson in, I'd give it a B+. He avoided disaster and a complete rebuild.

 

[bailey777]

B I think.
Was going to be a C if we flamed out in BTT.

We ran into a buzzsaw last night running on fumes.

I would have given it a D if we flamed out in the BTT. Given the five game losing streak, etc that would of been a bad ending.

 

[.Gerdis]

Nowhere near? Like Woodson was gonna come in, flip a switch and, suddenly, we’re all a sudden Top 5 again?

We are where we are as a result of the instability and mismanagement of the program over the last 20+ years. This year Woodson laid the foundation to build it back - with the defense, with holding players accountable . . .

This was NEVER going to be an overnight process. If one TRULY wants to be consistently relevant, you don’t want it to be.

Top 5????

Who was expecting that?

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

Top 5????

Who was expecting that?

Evidently him.

How else you want to define consistently relevant?

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Average (C).

Impressed with the defense. That was the highlight for this team. Hopefully we can sustain that with next year's roster.

Also impressed that Coach was able to pull the team out of the late-season collapse in the BTT. He got TJD back to playing well, which led to us all getting a taste again of what it's like to be relevant in March.

Offense was well below average. Limited by mediocre talent, especially versatility. But not much imagination in line-ups or schemes.

The key to getting us back to where we need to be will be talent development. Saw some improvement with X, TJD, and Race. But not enough from the bench to make this year's team much different from last year other than the surge in the BTT. Very disappointing that as unproductive as Stewart and Kopp were all year, no one could displace them in the rotation. Leaves some big questions for next year.

I would be more impressed by the D, except that a lot of it came from TJD's shot-blocking ability. I do give Woody credit for motivating TJD in that regard. But that part will be a one and done unless TJD returns.

 

[.Gerdis]

Evidently him.

How else you want to define consistently relevant?

I don’t know, but if we were making the NCAAs every year, and were a stapel in the top 25 I’d consider us consistently relevant. And that isn’t in the same universe of being a top 5 program.
But, it would be an enormous step for us as a program.

 

[IUHoopster]

B- excluding their best game (Purdue) and worst game (this one), grade is based on injuries and mental lapses midway through the season.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

I don’t know, but if we were making the NCAAs every year, and were a stapel in the top 25 I’d consider us consistently relevant. And that isn’t in the same universe of being a top 5 program.
But, it would be an enormous step for us as a program.

Uh . . . yeah, it is.

Take a look at the teams with the longest streak of making the NCAA's the last 20-25 years: Kansas, Duke, UK, Gonzaga. Couple that with being in the polls, and we're talking these level of programs.

Doing it isn't easy. You have to establish a foundation to maintain that level of success. Unless you want to go full-UK mode (which I don't), it's not gong to happen overnight.

 

[.Gerdis]

Uh . . . yeah, it is.

Take a look at the teams with the longest streak of making the NCAA's the last 20-25 years: Kansas, Duke, UK, Gonzaga. Couple that with being in the polls, and we're talking these level of programs.

Doing it isn't easy. You have to establish a foundation to maintain that level of success. Unless you want to go full-UK mode (which I don't), it's not gong to happen overnight.

I suppose I should have been more specific. I didn’t mean never missing the NCAA tournament or always being top 25. I meant more along the lines of programs like Michigan, Purdue, Wisconsin. They make the tournament most of the time, and find themselves ranked quite often. But, we would never consider any of them as top 5 programs.

back in the late 90s, IU was making the tournament almost every year, and we were in the top 25 fairly regularly (even if that only meant 50% of the available weeks). While that is no ultimate goal for our program, it would be a great start, and a big improvement over 1/6 NCAA tournaments and never (?) being ranked

like you said, you don’t become top 5 overnight.

I would certainly consider Michigan, PU and Wisconsin consistently relevant (at least lately).

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

I suppose I should have been more specific. I didn’t mean never missing the NCAA tournament or always being top 25. I meant more along the lines of programs like Michigan, Purdue, Wisconsin. They make the tournament most of the time, and find themselves ranked quite often. But, we would never consider any of them as top 5 programs.

back in the late 90s, IU was making the tournament almost every year, and we were in the top 25 fairly regularly (even if that only meant 50% of the available weeks). While that is no ultimate goal for our program, it would be a great start, and a big improvement over 1/6 NCAA tournaments and never (?) being ranked

like you said, you don’t become top 5 overnight.

I would certainly consider Michigan, PU and Wisconsin consistently relevant (at least lately).

Wisconsin? Purdue? Yeah, they've been more successful than us in the past decade, but I'd hate for that to be our "norm" . . . especially Wisconsin. They play a style that will be consistently good but rarely, if ever, great.

Maybe you could use the Beilein years at Michigan, but his initial years were very up/down.

For a school with our tradition, fanbase and resources, there's no reason that we - given time - can't build this program back to a high-level consistent winner. But make no mistake, it WILL need to be rebuilt.

 

[Paterfamilias]

Nowhere near? Like Woodson was gonna come in, flip a switch and, suddenly, we’re all a sudden Top 5 again?

We are where we are as a result of the instability and mismanagement of the program over the last 20+ years. This year Woodson laid the foundation to build it back - with the defense, with holding players accountable . . .

This was NEVER going to be an overnight process. If one TRULY wants to be consistently relevant, you don’t want it to be.

What you've said here is one narrative. I think it has a lot of merit and it's one I'm compelled to adopt, because I want the program to have positive momentum. Also, Woodson has been one of my top choices to take a crack at coaching IU for about 15 years, so I want him to succeed very badly.

There is another way to look at this season though. I'm not going to go on and on about it, but given the excitement for the 2021-22 season back in September, I'm very disappointed. My grade would be a sorry one and that's all that needs to be said about that.

Thankfully there is context and nuance to breaking down what we've witnessed the past few months. I think it's reasonable to be extremely disappointed in the 2021-22 season and still have high hopes for the near future.

That's where I stand right now, but (as they say) the honeymoon is over from my perspective. I ain't asking for Duke, but they celebrate #12 seeds at places like Vandy where they don't land a High School All-American every year.

 

[.Gerdis]

What you've said here is one narrative. I think it has a lot of merit and it's one I'm compelled to adopt, because I want the program to have positive momentum. Also, Woodson has been one of my top choices to take a crack at coaching IU for about 15 years, so I want him to succeed very badly.

There is another way to look at this season though. I'm not going to go on and on about it, but given the excitement for the 2021-22 season back in September, I'm very disappointed. My grade would be a sorry one and that's all that needs to be said about that.

Thankfully there is context and nuance to breaking down what we've witnessed the past few months. I think it's reasonable to be extremely disappointed in the 2021-22 season and still have high hopes for the near future.

That's where I stand right now, but (as they say) the honeymoon is over from my perspective. I ain't asking for Duke, but they celebrate #12 seeds at places like Vandy where they don't land a High School All-American every year.

Grades are a weird way of measuring. In other words, I have a C+ but said that they underperformed my expectations. In fact, before the season began I would have said that I would consider squeaking in as a bubble team to be pretty disappointing.

I suppose the C+ may have been generous. Perhaps I graded on a curve based on what everyone else was doing. Perhaps it was recency bias based on how we finished the year (outside st Mary’s)

Edit: I saw one person mention the PU win being a big influence and that it was worth 10 wins to that person. Hmm.

 

[Paterfamilias]

Grades are a weird way of measuring. In other words, I have a C+ but said that they underperformed my expectations. In fact, before the season began I would have said that I would consider squeaking in as a bubble team to be pretty disappointing.

I suppose the C+ may have been generous. Perhaps I graded on a curve based on what everyone else was doing. Perhaps it was recency bias based on how we finished the year (outside st Mary’s)

Edit: I saw one person mention the PU win being a big influence and that it was worth 10 wins to that person. Hmm.

Well, I think we all want positive momentum badly enough that we are willing to push a little.

 

[.Gerdis]

Well, I think we all want positive momentum badly enough that we are willing to push a little.

We see what we want to see.

 

[Paterfamilias]

Grades are a weird way of measuring. In other words, I have a C+ but said that they underperformed my expectations. In fact, before the season began I would have said that I would consider squeaking in as a bubble team to be pretty disappointing.

I suppose the C+ may have been generous. Perhaps I graded on a curve based on what everyone else was doing. Perhaps it was recency bias based on how we finished the year (outside st Mary’s)

Edit: I saw one person mention the PU win being a big influence and that it was worth 10 wins to that person. Hmm.

Seeing how happy Woody was walking off the court after beating Purdue probably was worth 10 wins. The guy gave his all as a Hoosier and his career fell exactly between two National Titles. They'll never be able to wipe away that smile after the Purdue victory... loved it! Nuance!

 

[.Gerdis]

Seeing how happy Woody was walking off the court after beating Purdue probably was worth 10 wins. The guy gave his all as a Hoosier and his career fell exactly between two National Titles. They'll never be able to wipe away that smile after the Purdue victory... loved it! Nuance!

Glad for Rob too, especially coming to IU from their backyard.

 

[Paterfamilias]

Glad for Rob too, especially coming to IU from their backyard.

In all honesty, as a fan who's old enough to go back to the Woodson playing days. I feel like I owe Mike Woodson something. In my own personal view, he has a blank check as IU coach, even more than I'd give Wittman or Alford whom are also my boys. I really want to see him win something big as coach here! I believe that if Woody got to the point that he thought he wasn't getting the job done, he would just move aside.

I'll celebrate whatever accomplishments come our way and be happy for Woodson. That said, if somebody asks "What do you think of that #12 seed"? Well...

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I honestly wish Archie was still here. Not sure what grade that equates to.

That equates to an F - for you.

You knew that Woody is only going to be be here for 2-3 years? And you knew that we knew that too?

I am embarrassed to say that I didn't know any of this.

He’s one of those posters that state their opinions as if they’re facts.

Also, that isn’t my opinion, it’s a fact.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

A resume of consistently taking a P5 school to the dance like Kelvin Sampson. Hopefully without the shenanigans

You’d disqualify Bob Knight, Coach K, Izzo, Boeheim, Williams, Dean Smith and many other very successful P5 coach that have coached or are coaching now. Including Sampson before he took the Oklahoma job.

I’m thankful that many of our posters have no influence in the Athletic Department.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I suppose I should have been more specific. I didn’t mean never missing the NCAA tournament or always being top 25. I meant more along the lines of programs like Michigan, Purdue, Wisconsin. They make the tournament most of the time, and find themselves ranked quite often. But, we would never consider any of them as top 5 programs.

back in the late 90s, IU was making the tournament almost every year, and we were in the top 25 fairly regularly (even if that only meant 50% of the available weeks). While that is no ultimate goal for our program, it would be a great start, and a big improvement over 1/6 NCAA tournaments and never (?) being ranked

like you said, you don’t become top 5 overnight.

I would certainly consider Michigan, PU and Wisconsin consistently relevant (at least lately).

IU made the tournament every year of the 90s. Otherwise agree.

 

[Beorik]

Dang...It would have taken a sweet 16 for me to go that far.
We just got beat by the widest margin in tournament history..
Lot's of those headlines this morning..
Not a good look.

Sweet 16 in year one with this roster? Yeah your expectations, while admirable and probably where we all want to be, are completely out of whack with reality imo.

I don’t think there is a coach on the planet who would have taken this team to the sweet 16 if all injuries remained the same.