Wait, I thought Glass only made decisions that helped revenue. Why does Glass permit such a large student section if that truly were the case?
Fred...sell those student seats
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Wait, I thought Glass only made decisions that helped revenue. Why does Glass permit such a large student section if that truly were the case?
Understand your points. I am talking about just 2000 seats and those being balcony so the difference between 2000 students yelling in a balcony vs 2000 young or less affluent alumni at a big game is not material in my view. Plus more seats would be full for all games.
Financially, as you say, it not huge but likely $800K per year for a combination of ticket price delta, parking, and concessions and gift shop gear deltas. This is assuming your other point that none of the newly minted ticket holders up their contribution levels earlier in order to get the heck out of the balcony, which I don't accept as true.
As for the FB tix requirement we can do the same for the BB tix and frankly reducing the student package by 1 game closes that very minor gap by over 30%.
I have been consistent on this for several years and I believe it is past time to do so.
students have never made it to all the games, even at the height of IU success.
for decades adults could purchase student tics out front, and upgrade them to adult tics at the tic window.
that filled out many of the student tic seats that otherwise would have been empty.
even in the days of Buckner/May/Benson, Isiah/Tolbert/Turner/Witman, Alford/Smart/Thomas, a non season ticket holder could show up to literally any game, no matter how huge, and get a seat for $5-$20 plus upgrade fee.
IU eliminated that option when Damon came to IU.
eliminating that option was a financial windfall for the ticket scalping industry. (the Simons were early entrants in the ticket scalping business, though no idea if they influenced that decision).
guessing other big scalpers are donors as well.
price of admission for non season tic holders went through the roof when that happened, students couldn't unload tics to games they couldn't attend, and empty seats became the norm.
other threads have talked about how long time fans that used to live for IU bball, and had so their whole life, now were apathetic about it.
i have to wonder just how much of that is about coaches, players, whatever, and how much of it is about IU sports becoming the IU Sports Corporation, caring only about huge amounts of money that's divided up between very few individuals, and the golden shower IU and other major schools have given to their fans.
and just as a reminder, here's IU's home non con schedule this yr.
Hope College
Bellarmine
U Mass-Lowell
Liberty
Miss Valley State
North Carolina
SIU Edwardsville
SE Mizzou State
Houston Baptist
Delaware State
Austin Peay
what school doesn't belong in that group?????
those answering UNC got it correct.
IU, Glass, Crean, scheduled all those games, EXCEPT UNC.
UNC was scheduled by the conference, not IU, Glass, or Crean.
none of the B10 games are scheduled by IU, Glass, or Crean.
so the ENTIRE, list of home games IU/Glass/Crean, did schedule for their fans this yr, is the impressive list above, minus UNC. (which obviously wouldn't be there if IU/Glass/Crean had any say in it).
check it out one more time,
here is the ENTIRE list of home games scheduled by IU/Glass/Crean this yr.
Hope College
Bellarmine
U Mass-Lowell
Liberty
Miss Valley State
SIU Edwardsville
SE Mizzou State
Houston Baptist
Delaware State
Austin Peay
that's it. that's the entire list.
any other schools IU played in Btown this yr, IU/Glass/Crean had no say in what so ever..
disliking a coach can affect a life long love, but not like that constant golden shower from the object of your affection, who doesn't give a sht about you, only your money.
for decades adults could purchase student tics out front, and upgrade them to adult tics at the tic window.
that filled out many of the student tic seats that otherwise would have been empty.
even in the days of Buckner/May/Benson, Isiah/Tolbert/Turner/Witman, Alford/Smart/Thomas, a non season ticket holder could show up to literally any game, no matter how huge, and get a seat for $5-$20 plus upgrade fee.
IU eliminated that option when Damon came to IU.
eliminating that option was a financial windfall for the ticket scalping industry. (the Simons were early entrants in the ticket scalping business, though no idea if they influenced that decision).
guessing other big scalpers are donors as well.
price of admission for non season tic holders went through the roof when that happened, students couldn't unload tics to games they couldn't attend, and empty seats became the norm.
other threads have talked about how long time fans that used to live for IU bball, and had so their whole life, now were apathetic about it.
i have to wonder just how much of that is about coaches, players, whatever, and how much of it is about IU sports becoming the IU Sports Corporation, caring only about huge amounts of money that's divided up between very few individuals, and the golden shower IU and other major schools have given to their fans.
and just as a reminder, here's IU's home non con schedule this yr.
Hope College
Bellarmine
U Mass-Lowell
Liberty
Miss Valley State
North Carolina
SIU Edwardsville
SE Mizzou State
Houston Baptist
Delaware State
Austin Peay
what school doesn't belong in that group?????
those answering UNC got it correct.
IU, Glass, Crean, scheduled all those games, EXCEPT UNC.
UNC was scheduled by the conference, not IU, Glass, or Crean.
none of the B10 games are scheduled by IU, Glass, or Crean.
so the ENTIRE, list of home games IU/Glass/Crean, did schedule for their fans this yr, is the impressive list above, minus UNC. (which obviously wouldn't be there if IU/Glass/Crean had any say in it).
check it out one more time,
here is the ENTIRE list of home games scheduled by IU/Glass/Crean this yr.
Hope College
Bellarmine
U Mass-Lowell
Liberty
Miss Valley State
SIU Edwardsville
SE Mizzou State
Houston Baptist
Delaware State
Austin Peay
that's it. that's the entire list.
any other schools IU played in Btown this yr, IU/Glass/Crean had no say in what so ever..
disliking a coach can affect a life long love, but not like that constant golden shower from the object of your affection, who doesn't give a sht about you, only your money.
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I don't understand what this means.. Students are required to buy FB tix to get BB tix. If we cut the number of students who can buy BB tix, many of them will opt not buy FB tix since they are only buying them so they can get BB tix. That's lost revenue.
I think you're overtstating the revenue difference by a factor of three or four. Students buy concessions and not very many people actually shop at the gift shop. Free parking is pretty easy to find, though many would undoubtedly pay to park.
At any rate, I'm pretty sure someone has done the math. The revenue is not something we're accidently giving up. It's a calculation. We're essentially spending the money to be able to say "World's Largest Student Section", inflate announced football attendance, and make sure that we have the loudest arena in basketball for the biggest games. Glass doesn't make that decision alone. There are lots of people who have input.
The Max number of student FB they could lose is 2000. Certainly they would not lose all of them. If you reduce the number of games the remaining 13K student ticket holders have (established earlier in the thread) by one...that drops the maximum exposure by reducing the number of students that lose BB tickets.
Free parking is damned hard to find on game day and one risks parking tickets do get it.
I have been in the gift shop prior to three games and it has been busy each time. My concessions estimate was a small delta from what a student spends.
As you say, someone has done the math.
I park for free every game a short walk away. It's actually pretty easy.
And yes, someone has done the math. IU made a decision a long time ago to maintain an abnormally large student section and continues to believe it's worth a few dollars in revenue- and some empty seats for non-premium games- to keep it that way.
Where do you park? There are some spots south of 17th on like 14th? Very few people park there though.
It isn't "some" seats, as noted earlier it is a couple thousand on a league game last Sunday and even quite a few for the premium MSU game. It is past time and worth far more than a few dollars.
That's exactly where I park. Usually on 16th. Plenty of open spots on the street and 10 times easier to get in and out. Lots of people are throwing away money to save a few steps and sit in traffic.
You're still overstating the revenue difference. As I said earlier, students already pay $20 a game. Balcony seats are only $28. And don't forget that 5 or 6 games a year are during the holidays, aren't in the student package, and get sold at full price. 8 X 14 X 2000 is about 200K and that's if we sell them all, which is debatable. Double that to account for increases parking, concessions, and gift shop (students do actually buy all of those things) and we're talking .5 % of the budget. I don't know those numbers for sure but I'm willing to bet that I'm closer than you are.
But it's really pointless to argue about the dollars because, again, its an expense IU is willing and has always been willing to accept because the return is worth it. It's like investing in super-duper scoreboards or nicer bathrooms.
A few spots indeed but a long walk round trip in the cold.
With all due respect DD the ticket delta alone is $400K
13 student pkg games @ $8 up sell = $208K
7 holiday games @ 1000 currently unsold seats (conservative) @ $28 = $196K
Parking (conservative) 700 cars @ 20 games = $140K
Forget concessions, gift shop (which is busy especially at holiday games) kids shop Moore online.
Difficult to quantify the lift IUVC would see in donations from new tix holders starting to buy their way downstairs, but it is not debatable.
The lift is significant, but you are correct in that this is a cost the AD has been willing to accept in order to have the worlds largest drum...oh wait.
These seats are sold. I sit in the balcony and I promise you, there aren't 1000 unsold tickets for those games. Maybe a few dozen.
Otherwise, it looks like we mostly agree now on numbers.
As far as donation/waitlist, when I started buying tickets 5 years ago, I spent no time on the waitlist. I just called the ticket office and told them I wanted tickets and that was the year we were pre-season #1. The points I had built up from FB tickets and $100 VC donations got me in the front row of the balcony, on the time line.
There is a short waitlist but it's not 1000 people. To fill 2000 extra seats, we would likely be selling some to non-VC members. It wouldn't surprise me if many of the people sitting around me don't donate to the VC as it is. And if anyone were going to ramp up donations to move to the Main, they'd already be doing it and sitting in the Main. Yes, there would be a bump in donations, but not a significant one. I also bought student tickets the previous 3 season while I was working on my Masters so I know exactly how the students behave, what they buy at the concession stands, and how loud they are compared to the adults.
You're guessing and I'm relating the actual experience of someone (me) who's done exactly what your talking about. Trust me, it's worth the lost revenue to sell those tickets to students.
You've confirmed my understanding that the wait list for season tickets is fairly modest.
We will have to disagree on how many holiday seats remain unsold as I look up into the east balcony and saw otherwise for those games with the exception of the Ill game which sold well. I only said 1000 and there were empty seats in the main level as well where students otherwise sat. I can check the box scores when I have time.
You sit in CC? I did my time in the balcony as a student (so I am not guessing) and a couple years as a young alum. I was in DD and then CC. Frankly those seats are not bad once you get used to them. You get the birds eye view which is interesting to watch plays develop. I was lazy and used the elevator up and fast exit down the 300 flights of stairs to beat traffic.
We want to fill out the seats, it takes 3 easy steps, two of which are under our control.
1. Floor a team that's worth going to watch
2. Schedule some non-con games that aren't complete horseshit
3. The big 10 stops sucking absolute ass
1. Floor a team that's worth going to watch
2. Schedule some non-con games that aren't complete horseshit
3. The big 10 stops sucking absolute ass
1. I agree all three of those things need to happen.
2. #1 is the same argument I use for football
3. Here is the difference; IU already has the seat fillers standing in line. Get them In before Crean runs them off.
I would argue the football team is already worth going to watch. Our ceiling for football recruiting is substantially lower than that of BBall recruiting. As such, there's always going to be a cap on just how good the football team can be. I'd argue they've played at about that cap the last couple years. Maybe if we string some lucky wins together we could go 8-4 or 9-3.
Good call out. The FB program has gotten much better overall. The product on the field still has a ways to go to get the stands full but I enjoy the hell,out of every football Sat in Btown.
You make great points. So is maybe the solution to oversell even more,come up with a standby situation for balconies, rethink student GA or ability to sell to non students?
Thanks, I just look at as if it were a business of mine plus it gives me something to do during long timeouts. I like the GA concept in the sense that it puts the craziest kids down low. Those that are willing to wait many hours for that coveted real estate.
people used to camp out all night in front of record stores and other outlets, to buy tickets to concerts as soon as the went on sale.
while these to some degree were big fans of the band, to another degree, these were people who liked camping out, and had the ability to do so.
don't just assume the guys at the front of the line are always the biggest fans.
on the non student side, don't assume the guys with the primo tickets to bball games are the biggest fans either.
no doubt they are fans, but personal economics plays a big part as well.
general admission is great for events that won't sell out, because the guy who decides the day of the show/game, has the same chance for a good seat as the guy who bought his tics the day they came out. (good for ticket sales)
i'm not a big fan of G.A. for IU bball students, because some students will never enjoy primo seats. (and selling more student tics isn't a need).
pre "student section" when student tics were spread out all over AH, you kind of had a hybrid system.
you had reserved seats, but you also had a sizable group of fans who didn't hold primo tics to said game, who re-evaluated their options once inside AH.
as i stated previously, there have always been plenty of students who didn't make every game, even primo games.
pre student section, fans with Uker seats, both adult and student, spotted the unfilled primo seats at game time, and moved down to fill said seats.
because no one really knew which seats were student seats and which weren't, adults who filled an unused primo student seat didn't get any dirty looks. (and didn't have to stand the whole game. who wants to be forced to stand the whole game).
if you were willing to work at it, you could get a great seat to any game, as long as you didn't have a party of more than 2.
another plus, was that students didn't behave like idiots, because they were always sitting among adults at every game, and not just among other students.
the fact that you could buy a student tic out front and upgrade it to adult, coupled with the fact you could move down and fill otherwise unfilled seats, meant anyone could get a tic to any game at $5-$20 plus uprade , and get a good seat once in, if they were willing to work a little at it.
made it great for big fans, who for one reason or another didn't have season tics, or had bad tics.
of course, eliminating those options drove up the price of adult tics like crazy.
i suppose what's best, depends on what your agenda is.
operate a great system for the fans, or operate a system designed to max revenues.
When it was being built, we snuck in to see it. At that time, the balcony railing was a pipe about 3 in. diameter which blocked the line of vision of the first couple rows of the balcony. It was terribly designed. (The pipe railing was later replaced.). Anyone else remember that pipe?
I remember the rail from my days in the balcony. It looks like they put the hockey glass up there now as they have around the lower level entrances for safety reasons.
Bump
For reference there were between 2,000 and 2,500 empty student seats last night. Also several in the faculty/staff section. You really don't see that on TV but again...
For reference there were between 2,000 and 2,500 empty student seats last night. Also several in the faculty/staff section. You really don't see that on TV but again...
I hope she was not the one I was ogling. Ask her about the halftime show...guy was pretty funny.
Bump
The same scenario today. 2000 empty student seats. Sell those seats Fred before your coach drives away the waiting list.
The same scenario today. 2000 empty student seats. Sell those seats Fred before your coach drives away the waiting list.
I just saw this thread, and thought the same thing. Sell them to who? There are no alumni waiting outside the doors clamoring to get in to the Hall these days, sad to say. Those seats are empty for a reason.
And, sidebar - whoever said that "even back in IU's hey day, there were unused student seats available for upgrade for alumni" is an asshat. I went to every game when I was at IU, and there were never empty seats.
The problem isn't the students, it's the product on the floor.
Duck, dodge, dip, whatever, but deflect from what's wrong. It's Crean, plain and simple.
in IU's heyday, there absolutely were student tics available for purchase out front before the games, which you could upgrade to general public at the ticket window.
perhaps the fact that that policy was in place, helps explain why by game time, those seats were filled.
because you could virtually always get in for a reasonable price, back in the day, there was always lots of buy-sell action in the area south of the south entrance.
never had to pay more than 5-20 bucks plus upgrade, even for the primo games of the season.
on a side note,
back when AH first opened, at least through the May, Buckner era, you could almost always just show up before the game, and get a ticket for an affordable price.
the one exception often was the Northwestern game. (always the doormat of the league back then).
the reason Northwestern was the toughest ticket of the yr some yrs back then, was because for some reason there was sometimes one game a yr back then that wasn't televised, and when so, that game was usually Northwestern.
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2000?
Easily. My mantra the last couple seasons. We don't need 8000 student seats.
#1 only students can use those seats unlike the old days of conversion.
#2. There is a substantial waiting list for season tickets but the current coach may eliminate that all by himself.
You realize that college sports are meant for the college students first and not a bunch of grumpy old men.
Yes. And it appears we have found what that market will bear: 6,000 seats at half the games received results in 12,000 students having seats. A delta of about 1,200 less students having any tickets.
A bit more substance than your flippant snark.
Now get off my lawn.
I am not a student and I am 46 years old so I am one of those grumpy old men. On the other hand my daughter has season tickets and has used her student tickets every game that she got.
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