On race and racism in https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/kyle-korver-utah-jazz-nba
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His repeated comments that "know that I believe this" were interesting. That's a meaningful step in this world even though I'm sure it doesn't seem like it.On race and racism in https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/kyle-korver-utah-jazz-nba
I thought it was pretty brave to admit what his original thoughts were....like why was he out and he must have done something wrong. It must be pretty wearing to hear these kinds of things yelled at your teammates too.His repeated comments that "know that I believe this" were interesting. That's a meaningful step in this world even though I'm sure it doesn't seem like it.
I think peoples' reaction that "you just now figured this out?" were wrong-headed, but to each his own.
I don't know that he accomplished anything, but I do think it's interesting.
No, I agree. I thought it was thoughtful no matter your beliefs. That's why I thought criticism of it was wrong-headed.I thought it was pretty brave to admit what his original thoughts were....like why was he out and he must have done something wrong. It must be pretty wearing to hear these kinds of things yelled at your teammates too.
tldr
tldr
I couldn't finish it. He writes like winners.On race and racism in https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/kyle-korver-utah-jazz-nba
On race and racism in https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/kyle-korver-utah-jazz-nba
And this is the response I was expecting to see in this thread eventually. Didn't know it would be CO., but I knew it would be from someone. Our forum's many not-racists can't let this kind of thing go without commenting eventually.I don’t understand thus:
But in many ways the more dangerous form of racism isn’t that loud and stupid kind. It isn’t the kind that announces itself when it walks into the arena. It’s the quiet and subtle kind. The kind that almost hides itself in plain view. It’s the person who does and says all the “right” things in public: They’re perfectly friendly when they meet a person of color. They’re very polite. But in private? Well….. they sort of wish that everyone would stop making everything “about race” all the time.Does Korver really describe racism here? If it’s invisible as he suggests, I don’t think it can be racism. Racism is a behavior, not a hidden invisible thought.
It’s the kind of racism that can seem almost invisible — which is one of the main reasons why it’s allowed to persist.
And this is the response I was expecting to see in this thread eventually. Didn't know it would be CO., but I knew it would be from someone. Our forum's many not-racists can't let this kind of thing go without commenting eventually.
Not to you, I don't. I just find it funny that when I read those exact two paragraphs you quoted, I said to myself, "Yeah, this is going to trigger the WC."Well I expected a condescending post from somebody, and I had a pretty good idea that it would be by you.
Now that we have the bullshit out of the way, do you have anything important to say about invisible racism?
Not to you, I don't.
I don’t understand this:
But in many ways the more dangerous form of racism isn’t that loud and stupid kind. It isn’t the kind that announces itself when it walks into the arena. It’s the quiet and subtle kind. The kind that almost hides itself in plain view. It’s the person who does and says all the “right” things in public: They’re perfectly friendly when they meet a person of color. They’re very polite. But in private? Well….. they sort of wish that everyone would stop making everything “about race” all the time.Does Korver really describe racism here? If it’s invisible as he suggests, I don’t think it can be racism. Racism is a behavior, not a hidden invisible thought.
It’s the kind of racism that can seem almost invisible — which is one of the main reasons why it’s allowed to persist.
It’s the kind of racism that you don’t express in public, or in private, it’s not even racist thoughts.
But it’s there, we know it is.
It’s called “bias”- to a large degree it’s actually human nature.
I applaud him for attempting to be introspective. Self-awareness goes a long way towards confronting bias. When you realize that your initial perceptions aren’t always right, it humbles you and makes you more open to everything. Including people from different ethnicities and racial origins.
Racism is still very hidden. You won’t see it unless you at least try to see it from someone else’s perspective. Things that I had attributed to innocuous circumstance happened often enough for me and my family to realize that it’s there. Truthfully, I don’t even think people were aware of what they were doing- but they were behaving differently. I don’t think they meant to do it- it was a reaction.
That’s what Korver was getting at. I think.
And again, at the root of it, it’s bias. Very few want to be called racist- or even biased. It’s deeper than just not telling racist jokes or any outward manifestations. Like or not, we’re all biased (racist) to a degree- it’s only through awareness that we become less so.
And I expected a post like yours. And, quite frankly, I KNEW it would come from you. I didn’t think you would “get it”, or even try to get it.
This is hilarious.And this is the response I was expecting to see in this thread eventually. Didn't know it would be CO., but I knew it would be from someone. Our forum's many not-racists can't let this kind of thing go without commenting eventually.
I think the same, and it will be nice when everybody thinks so. I remember last year I was writing an essay on a similar topic, and I expressed the same thought in it. I ordered that essay from iWriter, but I got an incompetent writer, and had to rewrite the essay. I decided to read reviews about writing services to find another one, and found this one about iWriter service. I saw that many people complained on poor quality of the papers, and read that anyone can join this company, that’s why there are such incompetent writers.I will go about trying to treat people the way I want to be treated and I will teach my children to do the same.
do you have anything important to say about invisible racism?
What a world we live in, where people are more concerned about the actions of our ancestors than they are about their own people’s actions today. I would be interested in being engaged in conversations about fixing root causes of some of these problems. I am not interested in apologizing for the actions of ignorant people some 150+ years ago anymore than I’ll apologize for the black on black crime that is so prevalent today. The people leading this movement are focused on ice cubes when there are icebergs in the water...
I also find it quite odd that people are not more interested in discussing why people are racist. Not just against blacks, but whites, Jews, Asians, etc...
How is "black on black" crime any more prevalent than "white on white" crime?
If their interest is truly saving black lives, eliminating those crimes would have the biggest impact. It’s like having a campaign to reduce drug induced deaths & focusing on anaphylaxis instead of opiates.How is "black on black" crime any more prevalent than "white on white" crime? Hint: It's not.
If their interest is truly saving black lives, eliminating those crimes would have the biggest impact. It’s like having a campaign to reduce drug induced deaths & focusing on anaphylaxis instead of opiates.
it's that old thing about make sure you clean up your yard before going on to complain about someone else's.If their interest is truly saving black lives, eliminating those crimes would have the biggest impact. It’s like having a campaign to reduce drug induced deaths & focusing on anaphylaxis instead of opiates.
but what happens when blacks kill copsBlack Lives Matter is about police murdering citizens. Police are there to protect, not murder citizens.
Well written article. One question I have is this. Since it appears that Thabo was arrested and then later cleared of wrong doing, did he resist arrest? How did he get the leg injury? Did he stand there with his hands up and they came along and hit him in the leg with a club? Obviously the cops got the situation wrong in this case. For Thabo was cleared. I'd just like to know exactly what happened?On race and racism in https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/kyle-korver-utah-jazz-nba
I don’t understand this:
But in many ways the more dangerous form of racism isn’t that loud and stupid kind. It isn’t the kind that announces itself when it walks into the arena. It’s the quiet and subtle kind. The kind that almost hides itself in plain view. It’s the person who does and says all the “right” things in public: They’re perfectly friendly when they meet a person of color. They’re very polite. But in private? Well….. they sort of wish that everyone would stop making everything “about race” all the time.Does Korver really describe racism here? If it’s invisible as he suggests, I don’t think it can be racism. Racism is a behavior, not a hidden invisible thought.
It’s the kind of racism that can seem almost invisible — which is one of the main reasons why it’s allowed to persist.
Yes he does. and it's not invisible, it''s hidden and mostly benign, .I told you previously, you don't really understand it... because you don't. And for some reason I doubt you want to.
\
convenient editing by you
Korver never discusses "invisible racism". It is not invisible at all. It is just not in your face Karen-ish/ Trump-ish behavior.
quote:
"the kind of racism that can seem almost invisible"
"It isn’t the kind that announces itself when it walks into the arena. It’s the quiet and subtle kind. The kind that almost hides itself in plain view."
"I just think we need to push ourselves another step further. First, by identifying that less visible, less obvious behavior as what it is: racism."
Yes he does. and it's not invisible, it''s hidden and mostly benign, .I told you previously, you don't really understand it... because you don't. And for some reason I doubt you want to.
\
Yeah, because focusing on people’s thoughts is much more important than their behaviors. By that thought process, every poster on the OTF is a sex offender for even thinking about sex acts with the women pictured. If the focus stays on actual behaviors it becomes much more difficult to make a case for systemic racismYes he does. and it's not invisible, it''s hidden and mostly benign, .I told you previously, you don't really understand it... because you don't. And for some reason I doubt you want to.
\
I was impressed that Korver was willing to talk it through publicly. Here’s some background on the Korver family that might be interesting.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23561760/cleveland-cavaliers-kyle-korver-plays-family-tragedy
And here’s an example of how it made at least one writer feel to see a white player put himself out there.
https://theundefeated.com/features/why-jazz-kyle-korver-words-on-white-privilege-and-racism-matter/
Maybe empathy is a good thing, and maybe there isn’t enough of it.
But it has been addressed. The fact that you’re aware of indicates that. ACTS of racism are deplorable & should be dealt with appropriately. But to suggest that there is this racism in the ether that exists in thought with no behaviors to substantiate it that undermines minority groups is difficult to accept. Not because I haven’t walked a mile in their shoes, but because there is little evidence, or certainly acts of racism from my perspective are the exceptions. Why hasn’t this inherent systematic racism by white people affected other ethnic groups or races in the same way? It is likely unwise for me to even say, but at times it appears as if some of the outrage has become the excuse for a shakedown...For all those who seem to claim to be religious or Christians, a basic tenent that always seems to be forgotten: Learn to walk a mile in someone else's shoes.
Bottom line is that its a country, stolen or at least colonised off the hands of the native Americans; built on the backs of slavery and the exploitation of other minorities over its history. All of it has been whitewashed or swept all that under the carpet or at worse rationalised.
I was watching a documentary about the 'injustices' (a euphemism is there ever was one) during the process of colonisation and genocide of the Native Americans over the centuries -- including by the folks on Mount Rushmore. Everything's been whitewashed.
People just don't want to hear any of it. Its never been addressed. Thus the lack of self-awareness or empathy. All have been justified somehow. And then people wonder why there are some subconscious reactions to acts of racism.
Guilt.
But it has been addressed. The fact that you’re aware of indicates that. ACTS of racism are deplorable & should be dealt with appropriately. But to suggest that there is this racism in the ether that exists in thought with no behaviors to substantiate it that undermines minority groups is difficult to accept. Not because I haven’t walked a mile in their shoes, but because there is little evidence, or certainly acts of racism from my perspective are the exceptions. Why hasn’t this inherent systematic racism by white people affected other ethnic groups or races in the same way? It is likely unwise for me to even say, but at times it appears as if some of the outrage has become the excuse for a shakedown...