Diversity Equity Inclusion

[IUCrazy2]

S

So you want to turn a blind eye to the truth?
That won’t help the problem.

No, I think you take the trolling too far. There are some conversations that should be handled tactfully. Getting into a racial conversation and then making the claim you did in your post is just dropping a racist trope in order to? I don't know, continue the idea that this persona is typical of right wingers?

 

[Marvin the Martian]

It is not a shitty point. It is a valid and accurate point, and a very, very, very, very important one. Employment discrimination based on race has been radically reduced in this country over the decades since the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Anyone who disputes that needs to have their motives questioned, because the facts show otherwise.

I’m tired of people running around in this country stirring the pot of racial hatred, and acting like the Civil War and the MLK civil rights movement was meaningless. People died so that Title VII could reduce employment discrimination. People died so that young black men and women could get an equal education. And to act like it didn’t happen or act like it didn’t mean anything is morally offensive.

For God sake, we’ve gone from lynchings in the south to a point where even the EEOC rejects 98.7% of discrimination claims because they lack merit. That deserves far more than a “screw you, you ain’t black, you don’t know what you’re talking about“ response.

I’m interested in ending discrimination. The people who are influencing your generation, and influencing guys like willdog, want to keep it alive by any means necessary. They are carpenters with hammers looking for nails.

We are better than we were. We have come a long way.

But there is still a way to go.

Applicants with Black names were called back 10% fewer times across the board — and even less when it came to specific companies — despite having comparable applications to their white counterparts.​

Name Discrimination Study Finds Lakisha And Jamal Still Less Likely To Get Hired Than Emily And Greg

Economists sent 83,000 job applications to 108 companies. Applicants with Black names were called back 10% fewer times across the board.

www.wbur.org

That study was 83,000. I don't know what the margin of error for a study that size is, but most political polls are between 500 and 1000. So 83,000 is a very, very hefty number.

I have no doubt you and I want the same final result. But right now we are between "not the problem it once was" and "time to roll out the Mission Accomplished banner".

I think, in running terms, we have "hit the wall". We are tired of dealing with race. I get that. It isn't a fun topic, it doesn't make us look good. Like a marathoner cramping at mile 22, we want to be done but aren't. Even I know we can't eliminate all racism, I don't know how we could do that. But I'm sure most of us don't think 10% is close enough.

 

[mcmurtry66]

We are better than we were. We have come a long way.

But there is still a way to go.

Applicants with Black names were called back 10% fewer times across the board — and even less when it came to specific companies — despite having comparable applications to their white counterparts.​

Name Discrimination Study Finds Lakisha And Jamal Still Less Likely To Get Hired Than Emily And Greg

Economists sent 83,000 job applications to 108 companies. Applicants with Black names were called back 10% fewer times across the board.

www.wbur.org

That study was 83,000. I don't know what the margin of error for a study that size is, but most political polls are between 500 and 1000. So 83,000 is a very, very hefty number.

I have no doubt you and I want the same final result. But right now we are between "not the problem it once was" and "time to roll out the Mission Accomplished banner".

I think, in running terms, we have "hit the wall". We are tired of dealing with race. I get that. It isn't a fun topic, it doesn't make us look good. Like a marathoner cramping at mile 22, we want to be done but aren't. Even I know we can't eliminate all racism, I don't know how we could do that. But I'm sure most of us don't think 10% is close enough.

i think we will see less racism with the younger generations. WOKE IS BROKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! but there are improvements attendant to same. my kid's district is probably 15% black. maybe slightly more than the black population. they are 100% intermingled. in every way. cafeteria. parties. sleepovers. likes. dislikes. color is not a thing. things will continue to improve - more organically.

what we also see as race is socio-economic, conditions, dearth of opportunities etc. for black kids that do well an argument can be made they have greater advantages. certainly in business in some respects: funding availability, contract opportunities, etc. i've mentioned before that i know the second wealthiest black man either in the US or the world. I can't remember. his race was a material asset in getting their business going with respect to some of the foregoing benefits i noted

 

[DANC]

We are better than we were. We have come a long way.

But there is still a way to go.

Applicants with Black names were called back 10% fewer times across the board — and even less when it came to specific companies — despite having comparable applications to their white counterparts.​

Name Discrimination Study Finds Lakisha And Jamal Still Less Likely To Get Hired Than Emily And Greg

Economists sent 83,000 job applications to 108 companies. Applicants with Black names were called back 10% fewer times across the board.

www.wbur.org

That study was 83,000. I don't know what the margin of error for a study that size is, but most political polls are between 500 and 1000. So 83,000 is a very, very hefty number.

I have no doubt you and I want the same final result. But right now we are between "not the problem it once was" and "time to roll out the Mission Accomplished banner".

I think, in running terms, we have "hit the wall". We are tired of dealing with race. I get that. It isn't a fun topic, it doesn't make us look good. Like a marathoner cramping at mile 22, we want to be done but aren't. Even I know we can't eliminate all racism, I don't know how we could do that. But I'm sure most of us don't think 10% is close enough.

The Right Rev'rand Hillary Clinton sums it up best:

 

[Willdog7]

Teaching young blacks to hate whites is not helpful. They don't see me as 1960's civil rights supporter when I say good morning. They have been taught that I am a white guy of privilege and not to be trusted.

The same for black people.

 

[Lucy01]

The same for black people.

You need to fix your own problem’s, I think you can do it too!

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

Everyone's favorite topic. State hired someone to start a program, they are leaving their post and gave an interview to NPR. Here is a snippet I really would love people's comments on.

One of the most important things we've done since I've been here is bring greater transparency to senior assignments that, until August of last year, you had to be known by someone to be a deputy assistant secretary in this building. And my office led the change for that. Now, while the change is going to benefit women and minorities because we're the least likely ones to have got that tap on the shoulder...​

​

FADEL: Yeah.​

​

ABERCROMBIE-WINSTANLEY: ...I'm delighted to tell you that the first person to benefit was a European American male. And he came up to me, and he was kind of apologetic 'cause he said, I don't know if I'm your demographic, but I want to say thank you. And he said, I saw the advertisement. These positions had never been advertised before - really. You had to know someone. And I said, yeah, you. You are my demographic. Inclusion is for everyone. And what everyone needs to understand is that we are not trying to put a new group at the top of the pyramid. We are trying to level the playing field.​

View embedded media

So for those of us who didn't live in a fraternity, let alone the right one, isn't Diversity, Equity, Inclusion for us too? Those of us not from the power elite, isn't it for us too? Those of us who don't belong to the right club, go to the right church?

In other words, why do so many who rail against the swamp oppose a program decidedly anti-swamp?

There are swamps in corporate America, city hall, the statehouse. Places where who you know is more important than what you know. Why do we not see that as the real problem?

So read that blurb, tell me where what she did is bad.

I think that's a great example of something being done that should be done. But I don't think that's what most think of, or the primary focus of, things listed under DEI. People think it looks something more like this:

Fourth white DOE executive sues over racial discrimination

A former city schools administrator filed a $20 million discrimination suit against the Department of Education and Chancellor Richard Carranza on Monday, claiming she was relentlessly demeaned and…

nypost.com

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

Athletes at Harvard, and pretty much every school, get in without meeting the minimum criteria. If we agree admission should be a meritocracy, why is that fact not being complained about. Why is hitting a curveball academically meritorious.

I have mentioned legacy, a legacy admission is 6 times more likely to get in:

The records revealed that 70% of Harvard’s donor-related and legacy applicants are white, and being a legacy student makes an applicant roughly six times more likely to be admitted.​

Nonprofit files civil rights complaint challenging legacy admissions at Harvard

Lawyers for Civil Rights, a nonprofit based in Boston, is filing the civil rights complaint on behalf of Black and Latino community groups in New England, alleging that Harvard’s admissions system violates the Civil Rights Act.

www.pbs.org

And now that suit has been filed to block legacy. But not by the Asian groups that filed. Nor have conservative authors spilled a lot of ink decrying it.

If we demand Harvard be totally meritorious, let us demand it. Athletes and legacy have to go. Below are some numbers on race of incoming athletes , Whites dominate:

Freshman Recruited Athletes Less Ethnically Diverse than Previous Years, Survey Reports | News | The Harvard Crimson

One major subset of the Class of 2025 — recruited athletes — is more predominantly white than in previous years, according to the results of The Crimson’s annual freshman survey.

www.thecrimson.com

Let us stop ignoring ways Whites are getting unfair advantages too. We can't only complain when Blacks get a leg up, can we?

The Constitution doesn't prohibit discriminating based on academic ability, athletic ability, or legacies. It does prohibt ANY discrimination based on race, for or against.

Policy-wise, though, I'm with you: eliminate legacy and athlete advantages.

Re conservatives not asking for the end of legacy admissions, see this:

It’s Time to End Legacy Admissions | National Review

The supposed meritocracy of elite academic admissions often blends into plain old aristocracy, but none are more overt or less defensible than legacy admissions.

www.nationalreview.com

 

[Marvin the Martian]

The Constitution doesn't prohibit discriminating based on academic ability, athletic ability, or legacies. It does prohibt ANY discrimination based on race, for or against.

Policy-wise, though, I'm with you: eliminate legacy and athlete advantages.

Re conservatives not asking for the end of legacy admissions, see this:

It’s Time to End Legacy Admissions | National Review

The supposed meritocracy of elite academic admissions often blends into plain old aristocracy, but none are more overt or less defensible than legacy admissions.

www.nationalreview.com

Some conservatives have seen the light. But here, not many bring it up in the 100 threads we have had on using race as A criterion in selection. Some have asked if we want a doctor let in because they were less qualified but added because of race. Would anyone feel better about a less qualified doctor having been admitted because they are good at lacrosse?

For the reason you suggest, it isn't against the constitution, I doubt the NAACP wins their court case against Harvard. If they thought they would, they would have filed it long ago. But Harvard accepts a lot of federal money, congress can make it very, very inconvenient for Harvard (and others) to use legacy. That's my goal. I think many conservatives would sign on to that.

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

Some conservatives have seen the light. But here, not many bring it up in the 100 threads we have had on using race as A criterion in selection. Some have asked if we want a doctor let in because they were less qualified but added because of race. Would anyone feel better about a less qualified doctor having been admitted because they are good at lacrosse?

For the reason you suggest, it isn't against the constitution, I doubt the NAACP wins their court case against Harvard. If they thought they would, they would have filed it long ago. But Harvard accepts a lot of federal money, congress can make it very, very inconvenient for Harvard (and others) to use legacy. That's my goal. I think many conservatives would sign on to that.

I have no problem with even race-based "affirmative action" when the numbers show it is needed to equalize opportunity.

I sorta doubt if Harvard has a problem attracting qualified applicants.

If they do, maybe they should see it as a sign to put some of their money into making sure high schools are doing their job(s) instead of puking out illiterate graduates who also have no trade skills.

High schools SHOULD BE puking out qualified students.

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

Some conservatives have seen the light. But here, not many bring it up in the 100 threads we have had on using race as A criterion in selection. Some have asked if we want a doctor let in because they were less qualified but added because of race. Would anyone feel better about a less qualified doctor having been admitted because they are good at lacrosse?

For the reason you suggest, it isn't against the constitution, I doubt the NAACP wins their court case against Harvard. If they thought they would, they would have filed it long ago. But Harvard accepts a lot of federal money, congress can make it very, very inconvenient for Harvard (and others) to use legacy. That's my goal. I think many conservatives would sign on to that.

One problem with your analogy: med schools don’t favor athletes since they don’t have athletic teams. But I agree with your point.

I’m not sure I’ve seen anyone on here defend legacies, though.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

One problem with your analogy: med schools don’t favor athletes since they don’t have athletic teams. But I agree with your point.

I’m not sure I’ve seen anyone on here defend legacies, though.

Yes, I wasn't the one that came up with the Dr analogy, it was MTIOTF.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I have no problem with even race-based "affirmative action" when the numbers show it is needed to equalize opportunity.

I sorta doubt if Harvard has a problem attracting qualified applicants.

If they do, maybe they should see it as a sign to put some of their money into making sure high schools are doing their job(s) instead of puking out illiterate graduates who also have no trade skills.

High schools SHOULD BE puking out qualified students.

I see Harvard sent out letters to Blacks scoring 1100 on the SAT, that is under my score long ago and is too low.

Funny thing is, for diversity, Whites from places like Montana also needed lower scores than Asians, or Whites from the northeast. It appears they wanted the top x% of each demographic.

I think there is a lot of subjective measurements in high school grades. I get the kid with a 4.10 may actually be less qualified than the 4.0 kid. Maybe the 4.0 kid had too much pride to cry for extra credit (seen it). I am not sure we have a great Moneyball solution.

That said, I don't disagree Harvard looks like they went too far. I know no one here will like my idea, two kids apply with 4.0, the Black/Hispanic/Native American gets the slot over the Asian or White. But since that will probably still be thrown out, hand it to the poorest kid. They probably had to overcome more

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

No, I think you take the trolling too far. There are some conversations that should be handled tactfully. Getting into a racial conversation and then making the claim you did in your post is just dropping a racist trope in order to? I don't know, continue the idea that this persona is typical of right wingers?

To be fair, even if Lucy is fake, Mas is the real deal, so you can't deflect with this trolling thing forever.

 

[IUCrazy2]

To be fair, even if Lucy is fake, Mas is the real deal, so you can't deflect with this trolling thing forever.

No that isn't to be fair.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

No that isn't to be fair.

Own it!

 

[mohoosier]

First reaction - is that an exception or the rule?

I don’t really see the DEI movement embracing white males, European, or otherwise, with regularity. Am I blind or realistic?

My wife works for the largest RPO company in the world as a Sr Recruiter. When I overhear the meeting talk, it’s pure racism at its core. Nothing more, nothing less. I’m guessing they saw Affirmative Action in the cross hairs and relabeled it as we know the Left is so damn good at.

Inadvertent Climate Modification nah, Global Warming oops…Climate Change, there we go.

 

[The Vid]

Those who rail against DEI initiatives in the workplace, particularly with respect to training, are foolish.

Study after study have demonstrated that organizations that embrace DEI - - and provide associated training - - tend to have higher morale and lower employee turnover. These companies are also much less likely to find themselves defending a costly EEOC action and/or Title VII litigation. There is a very real bottom-line component to this.

DEI = lower profit and more racism, animosity, and resentment

 

[Rockport Zebra]

The same for black people.

I don't know where you live, but where I live the issue is considerably better.

 

[IUCrazy2]

Own it!

Own what? That one poster on this board that is on "my team" has views outside the norm? I have taken them to task when they post that and disagreed. There is nothing there to own because it isn't mine and some people out of the norm aren't indicative of the right, unless you want to claim the antisocial behaviors that come from some on the left as mainstream as well?

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Athletes at Harvard, and pretty much every school, get in without meeting the minimum criteria. If we agree admission should be a meritocracy, why is that fact not being complained about. Why is hitting a curveball academically meritorious.

I’m more than willing to support this. Are you? What racial group do you think disproportionately receives the benefit of these lower admissions for athletes? How many black athletes are going to get into Stanford, Notre Dame, Michigan, etc. without special status? I’d imagine college sports would like quite different.

There are a few major flaws in the Legacy argument. As someone that didn’t have that advantage, I support and would encourage the notion that legacies shouldn’t have priority over non-legacies.

But, where is the actual study? Maybe I missed it, but were all of the factors controlled for in showing the 6x higher likelihood? Factors such as: legacy parents who were smart enough to attend Harvard are likely near the top end of the intelligence spectrum, which bodes well for offspring, the significant reliance on donations as part of its budget process (what happens to donations if legacy no longer matters? - they certainly aren’t going higher), etc.

Legacy status is broad and across races (the data even claims such), it isn’t directly promoting one race at the detriment of others.

 

[twenty02]

I’m more than willing to support this. Are you? What racial group do you think disproportionately receives the benefit of these lower admissions for athletes? How many black athletes are going to get into Stanford, Notre Dame, Michigan, etc. without special status? I’d imagine college sports would like quite different.

There are a few major flaws in the Legacy argument. As someone that didn’t have that advantage, I support and would encourage the notion that legacies shouldn’t have priority over non-legacies.

But, where is the actual study? Maybe I missed it, but were all of the factors controlled for in showing the 6x higher likelihood? Factors such as: legacy parents who were smart enough to attend Harvard are likely near the top end of the intelligence spectrum, which bodes well for offspring, the significant reliance on donations as part of its budget process (what happens to donations if legacy no longer matters? - they certainly aren’t going higher), etc.

Legacy status is broad and across races (the data even claims such), it isn’t directly promoting one race at the detriment of others.

According to Monday's complaint, nearly 70% of Harvard applicants with family ties to donors or alumni are white and are about six times more likely to be admitted than other applicants.

About 28% of Harvard's class of 2019 were legacies, the groups said in the complaint. That means fewer admissions slots were available for non-white applicants who are far less likely to have family ties to the school, they said.

Harvard 'legacy' policy challenged on heels of affirmative action ruling

Three civil rights groups filed a complaint against Harvard on Monday, claiming its preferential policy for undergraduate applicants with family ties to the elite school overwhelmingly benefits white students, days after the U.S. Supreme Court struck down its race-conscious admissions policies.

www.reuters.com

Maybe this was already posted. But if 28% of every Harvard class is actually legacy, like this lawsuit claims, then you are creating an ongoing aristocracy. As a Harvard (or other similar elite school) degree is almost a guarantee for high end earning power.

My DC friend, fellow IU Kelley grad sent my this.. They have a lot of very progressive and wealthy friends in town that most certainly benefited from legacy admissions, but have giant blind spots in their life.

 

[T.M.P.]

Flaccid

I would say ask your wife ... but I then pictured what kind of woman would find you in any way intresting and about vomited ... so, I guess I won't say that.

fwiw - flaccid was one of the first things I called you when you started posting on the OTF... I'm glad you remembered but it was in reference to your lack of wit. That you still can't make up your own crap, and have to steal mine only verifies your mental quagginess.

Have a good day, Bubba..

 

[twenty02]

No, I think you take the trolling too far. There are some conversations that should be handled tactfully. Getting into a racial conversation and then making the claim you did in your post is just dropping a racist trope in order to? I don't know, continue the idea that this persona is typical of right wingers?

At my place of work Black people won’t apply for a good paying job, because we have drug testing!

Who knew that working part- time trolling the WC required a drug test?

I need to reread my contact.

 

[twenty02]

I would say ask your wife ... but I thought of what kind of woman would find you in any way intresting and about vomited ... so I won't say that.

fwiw - that was one of the first things I called you when you started posting on the OTF... but it was in reference to your lack of wit. That you can't make up your own crap, and have to steal mine only verifies your mental quagginess.

Have a good day, Bubba..

He is on his 4th wife who is apparently looking for any way out... and will use a power outage to get away from him.

 

[T.M.P.]

He is on his 4th wife who is apparently looking for any way out... and will use a power outage to get away from him.

lol there's some irony in there.......... and again .... *retch* ..

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I’m more than willing to support this. Are you? What racial group do you think disproportionately receives the benefit of these lower admissions for athletes? How many black athletes are going to get into Stanford, Notre Dame, Michigan, etc. without special status? I’d imagine college sports would like quite different.

There are a few major flaws in the Legacy argument. As someone that didn’t have that advantage, I support and would encourage the notion that legacies shouldn’t have priority over non-legacies.

But, where is the actual study? Maybe I missed it, but were all of the factors controlled for in showing the 6x higher likelihood? Factors such as: legacy parents who were smart enough to attend Harvard are likely near the top end of the intelligence spectrum, which bodes well for offspring, the significant reliance on donations as part of its budget process (what happens to donations if legacy no longer matters? - they certainly aren’t going higher), etc.

Legacy status is broad and across races (the data even claims such), it isn’t directly promoting one race at the detriment of others.

I support dropping all athletic scholarships, everywhere. So yes, that would also mean eliminating athletic preference. I want sports back to the best students at a school try out and make the team.

Barkley of all people has had some good quotes. Here he says he never talks to Black kids about being pro athletes, that is like talking to them about winning the lottery.

"This is like hitting the lottery to be able to play basketball for a living" - Charles Barkley encourages youth to pursue education instead of dreaming of an NBA gig

Charles Barkley declared back in 1993 that he was not a role model. Fast forward to 2022, Barkley is encouraging the youth to pursue education rather than dream of playing in the NBA.

www.google.com

He also talks about how when he visits Black schools, all the kids want to be pro athletes. When he goes to White schools, he seldom heard kids saying they want to be pro athletes.

• "I do this science experiment when I am in school. Let's say I am in a White school, I say 'how many want to play pro sports?' Less than 10% raise their hand. 'I wanna be a doctor, I wanna be a lawyer, I wanna be an engineer'. When I speak at Black schools, 90% of the kids want to play sports. 90%. There's a couple that wanna be doctors, which makes me proud, but 90% of the kids when I speak in Black schools... Our kids are brainwashed if they think they can only play sports or be entertainers. You have a better chance of being a doctor than being in the NBA."

https://fadeawayworld.net/nba-media/charles-barkley-on-the-difference-he-saw-from-visiting-black-and-white-schools-our-black-youth-are-brainwashed

That is the paradigm we have to change. A whole lot of our education problem comes from valuing the jump shot FAR more than the test.

 

[twenty02]

I support dropping all athletic scholarships, everywhere. So yes, that would also mean eliminating athletic preference. I want sports back to the best students at a school try out and make the team.

Barkley of all people has had some good quotes. Here he says he never talks to Black kids about being pro athletes, that is like talking to them about winning the lottery.

"This is like hitting the lottery to be able to play basketball for a living" - Charles Barkley encourages youth to pursue education instead of dreaming of an NBA gig

Charles Barkley declared back in 1993 that he was not a role model. Fast forward to 2022, Barkley is encouraging the youth to pursue education rather than dream of playing in the NBA.

www.google.com

He also talks about how when he visits Black schools, all the kids want to be pro athletes. When he goes to White schools, he seldom heard kids saying they want to be pro athletes.

• "I do this science experiment when I am in school. Let's say I am in a White school, I say 'how many want to play pro sports?' Less than 10% raise their hand. 'I wanna be a doctor, I wanna be a lawyer, I wanna be an engineer'. When I speak at Black schools, 90% of the kids want to play sports. 90%. There's a couple that wanna be doctors, which makes me proud, but 90% of the kids when I speak in Black schools... Our kids are brainwashed if they think they can only play sports or be entertainers. You have a better chance of being a doctor than being in the NBA."

https://fadeawayworld.net/nba-media/charles-barkley-on-the-difference-he-saw-from-visiting-black-and-white-schools-our-black-youth-are-brainwashed

That is the paradigm we have to change. A whole lot of our education problem comes from valuing the jump shot FAR more than the test.

Most white kid wants to be pro athletes when they grow up too. I did. My son does. We both share dreams of playing in the NBA. I gave mine up about 6th grade, I'm sure my son will too. Had later dreams of playing on the PGA Tour, that lasted until about 10th grade when I made state and got my ass whipped.

My parents encouraged me always, but also grounded me in reality all the way, and stressed education. If I wasn't doing well in school then all the extracurriculars were gone.

Why is this still so lost on black families?

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Why is this still so lost on black families?

I know that is rhetorical, and obviously I cannot speak for Black families. But I theorize they don't trust the system. I know in my poor neighborhood I always heard the rich people didn't want us to succeed. It was gospel they actively wanted to keep us down.

 

[twenty02]

I know that is rhetorical, and obviously I cannot speak for Black families. But I theorize they don't trust the system. I know in my poor neighborhood I always heard the rich people didn't want us to succeed. It was gospel they actively wanted to keep us down.

Sad. Can't help those that won't help themselves, I guess.

It's basically the same narrative of the populist right.

So many victims of society out there.

 

[Lucy01]

Sad. Can't help those that won't help themselves, I guess.

It's basically the same narrative of the populist right.

So many victims of society out there.

You have an education, why aren’t you rich?

 

[IUCrazy2]

I know that is rhetorical, and obviously I cannot speak for Black families. But I theorize they don't trust the system. I know in my poor neighborhood I always heard the rich people didn't want us to succeed. It was gospel they actively wanted to keep us down.

I think some people need to realize that at a certain level other people don't have the time to "care" about stuff like that. Even the Bill Gates types of the world who think they are on a mission to save the planet don't care. You get that rich you are so detached from what life is like for normal people you do not and cannot understand. You can throw money at people and you can have grand ideas but that isn't caring to me.

The vast majority of people are wrapped up in the things in life impacting them to be worried about holding someone else down.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Sad. Can't help those that won't help themselves, I guess.

It's basically the same narrative of the populist right.

So many victims of society out there.

The fact we have wealthy populists here shouldn't obscure most are poorer. Scotch-Irish without a college degree tend toward being poorer nationalists. It is exactly my roots, and what JD Vance wrote about in Hillbilly Elegy.

And victimhood is a huge part of the grievance. There has to be a reason we are poor, they keep us down is a biggie. The other popular one I recall was the idea to get money one could not have morals.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

According to Monday's complaint, nearly 70% of Harvard applicants with family ties to donors or alumni are white and are about six times more likely to be admitted than other applicants.

About 28% of Harvard's class of 2019 were legacies, the groups said in the complaint. That means fewer admissions slots were available for non-white applicants who are far less likely to have family ties to the school, they said.

Harvard 'legacy' policy challenged on heels of affirmative action ruling

Three civil rights groups filed a complaint against Harvard on Monday, claiming its preferential policy for undergraduate applicants with family ties to the elite school overwhelmingly benefits white students, days after the U.S. Supreme Court struck down its race-conscious admissions policies.

www.reuters.com

Maybe this was already posted. But if 28% of every Harvard class is actually legacy, like this lawsuit claims, then you are creating an ongoing aristocracy. As a Harvard (or other similar elite school) degree is almost a guarantee for high end earning power.

My DC friend, fellow IU Kelley grad sent my this.. They have a lot of very progressive and wealthy friends in town that most certainly benefited from legacy admissions, but have giant blind spots in their life.

That’s what I was responding to (Marv posted). Again, I’m fine not having legacy favoritism as I wasn’t one. But the stats aren’t provided with the details of how the factors I highlighted above impact.

It would be nearly impossible to control, but the idea that kids of legacy alumni who are really smart (at least in academia) are also disproportionately smart vs the rest of the population seems quite logical. So they already have an inherent edge.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

I support dropping all athletic scholarships, everywhere. So yes, that would also mean eliminating athletic preference. I want sports back to the best students at a school try out and make the team.

Barkley of all people has had some good quotes. Here he says he never talks to Black kids about being pro athletes, that is like talking to them about winning the lottery.

"This is like hitting the lottery to be able to play basketball for a living" - Charles Barkley encourages youth to pursue education instead of dreaming of an NBA gig

Charles Barkley declared back in 1993 that he was not a role model. Fast forward to 2022, Barkley is encouraging the youth to pursue education rather than dream of playing in the NBA.

www.google.com

He also talks about how when he visits Black schools, all the kids want to be pro athletes. When he goes to White schools, he seldom heard kids saying they want to be pro athletes.

• "I do this science experiment when I am in school. Let's say I am in a White school, I say 'how many want to play pro sports?' Less than 10% raise their hand. 'I wanna be a doctor, I wanna be a lawyer, I wanna be an engineer'. When I speak at Black schools, 90% of the kids want to play sports. 90%. There's a couple that wanna be doctors, which makes me proud, but 90% of the kids when I speak in Black schools... Our kids are brainwashed if they think they can only play sports or be entertainers. You have a better chance of being a doctor than being in the NBA."

https://fadeawayworld.net/nba-media/charles-barkley-on-the-difference-he-saw-from-visiting-black-and-white-schools-our-black-youth-are-brainwashed

That is the paradigm we have to change. A whole lot of our education problem comes from valuing the jump shot FAR more than the test.

Barkley is right. But again, you are reinforcing that this is a cultural problem, which I agree with and have been spouting for many years. And you and I aren’t going to fix it. So how does the African American community fix this problem?

Barkley or Jordan (who unintentionally created some of this problem) really aren’t the right guys to say - get your degree, focus on academics, strive for white collar jobs vs trying to win the sports lottery, etc.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Barkley is right. But again, you are reinforcing that this is a cultural problem, which I agree with and have been spouting for many years. And you and I aren’t going to fix it. So how does the African American community fix this problem?

Barkley or Jordan (who unintentionally created some of this problem) really aren’t the right guys to say - get your degree, focus on academics, strive for white collar jobs vs trying to win the sports lottery, etc.

I don't know, Barkley's NBA success and the fact he is still very visible gives him credibility on the issue. Believe me, that is hard for me to type as watching Barkley on March Madness it is hard to believe he is ever right about anything.

I think he, or Jordan, saying "I played with guys better than any of you will ever be that couldn't make the NBA" would resonate at least a little.

I think eliminating scholarships and academic preference would help. Right now kids can see having a jump shot opens doors, and focus on that. If that stopped being true, if the only way to play ball in college is to have decent grades, priorities should adjust.

One thing Michael Lewis' book on the creation of the kids sports financial explosion spoke about is how this is happening in the Carmel's too. Become a lacrosse star and you will get into Harvard with a lower GPA than non-athletes. Grades stop mattering as much even in a Carmel. If you want to go to an elite school, athletics is the surest route. And we as a country are spending way, way, way, way too much trying to take advantage. It isn't just the financial aid, Varsity Blues had nothing to do with financial aid. It's getting past the gatekeepers.

Eliminate athletic preferences. Eliminate scholarships. Stop rewarding kids that don't do homework in favor of practice.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

No, I think you take the trolling too far. There are some conversations that should be handled tactfully. Getting into a racial conversation and then making the claim you did in your post is just dropping a racist trope in order to? I don't know, continue the idea that this persona is typical of right wingers?

Lucy was a decent "friendly troll" for about six months. Then the anger and bitterness took over.

 

[Willdog7]

You need to fix your own problem’s, I think you can do it e

 

[Willdog7]

We can not if you keep blocking the way.

 

[Willdog7]

I don't know where you live, but where I live the issue is considerably better.

I'M glad it's positive for you but we still have sundown towns even in Indiana.