Culture

[bailey777]

Woodson sat those guys and it was the right thing to do at Northwestern. Setting expectations is vey important in year one. But you will eventually have to have a winning culture and system like Wisconsin does. In the end it will come down to Woodson's coaching a few years from now. Like I said I will stay positive but I do feel like Wooson needs to make some big improvements next year or recruiting could dry up fast. You usually get a few years to recruit well without winning. after that it gets tough. You have to make the ncaa to sell guys on the program imo in the next year or two.

 

[shooter1977]

Coaches can get better. Jay Wright was not a good coach when he started at Hofstra, and he's become one of the best. It's true with a lot of coaches. The problem is, most of these guys go through their growing pains in their late 20s and 30s at small or mid-level programs.

You just don't get much of a runway at major programs. You wonder if Woodson is starting to realize this.

 

[Cavanagh]

Suspending the players at NW was an awful idea. Good thought in principal, but has proven to be the worst decision of the season.

 

[hickorytree1]

Suspending the players at NW was an awful idea. Good thought in principal, but has proven to be the worst decision of the season.

Big picture, Cav

 

[Cavanagh]

Big picture, Cav

Woody is too old for big picture and so is IU's losing ways. My opinion only, I usually would side with you on this. I just think IU is such a unique situation is college sports. It is insane how much people care about a program that is this bad. You can't name another program that is even close in football or basketball. Truly a one of a kind situation.

 

[hickorytree1]

Woody is too old for big picture and so is IU's losing ways. My opinion only, I usually would side with you on this. I just think IU is such a unique situation is college sports. It is insane how much people care about a program that is this bad. You can't name another program that is even close in football or basketball. Truly a one of a kind situation.

It appears your comment just proved my point.

 

[aajohn2000]

Suspending the players at NW was an awful idea. Good thought in principal, but has proven to be the worst decision of the season.

Really? Why do you feel that way? It depends what the coaches objective and priorities are. I recognize that you have more insight into the program than most, but I think it’s unfair to say it was a mistake. Certainly entitled to your opinion. All of us are. If Coach Woodson is placing the team above the individuals and this was a common talk track with he and the players and these players disregarded it, likely repeatedly, I have absolutely zero issue with what he did. Now, maybe you sit them for just a half vs the entire game? But this coach is not going to negotiate his principles and what he preaches. He appears to have executed the enforcement of the team rule and for that, i take ZERO issue with. There are consequences to your actions and it’s the kids / players that are to blame, not the coach. When they brooke the team rules, they decided to put the team in jeopardy with the consequences of their actions. It’s all on them. Period. JMO.

 

[aajohn2000]

Woody is too old for big picture and so is IU's losing ways. My opinion only, I usually would side with you on this. I just think IU is such a unique situation is college sports. It is insane how much people care about a program that is this bad. You can't name another program that is even close in football or basketball. Truly a one of a kind situation.

Husker football fans disagree.

 

[Cavanagh]

There are consequences to your actions and it’s the kids / players that are to blame, not the coach. When they brooke the team rules, they decided to put the team in jeopardy with the consequences of their actions. It’s all on them. Period. JMO.

If you are calling them "Kids" the adult is always at fault. Cost us games and didn't make a significant impact on play. Just looking at the results, I consider it a failure.

 

[Cavanagh]

Husker football fans disagree.

Only comparable story and I think even Nebraska would be like ya IU bball called and said hold my beer.

 

[Cavanagh]

It appears your comment just proved my point.

I dunno, Im emotional about this one. Normally have not been emotional about loses this year, but this one really has me discouraged. We should have one that F.ucking game!!!!!

 

[aajohn2000]

If you are calling them "Kids" the adult is always at fault. Cost us games and didn't make a significant impact on play. Just looking at the results, I consider it a failure.

If all you care about is wins, maybe we win, maybe we don’t. But it’s one game and woody isn’t in it for one game. He is establishing precedent. These “young men” made a mistake. The individual is not greater than the team. They broke a team rule. They made the decision to go against it knowing there would be consequences. It’s all on them. The coach had no choice but to do his job and enforce it. Maybe these “young men” will place more value on the team, their families, coworkers, company’s, etc later in life as a result. One thing is for sure, our coach is not afraid to do his job.

 

[Cavanagh]

If all you care about is wins, maybe we win, maybe we don’t. But it’s one game and woody isn’t in it for one game. He is establishing precedent. These “young men” made a mistake. The individual is not greater than the team. They broke a team rule. They made the decision to go against it knowing there would be consequences. It’s all in them. The coach had no chance but to do his job and enforce it. Maybe these “young men” will place more value in the team, their families, coworkers, company’s, etc later in life as a result. One thing is for sure, our coach is not afraid to do his job.

Like I said I like the move normally. In this case, I would have rather the win and make them run. Different ways to punish, but I also have the luxury of seeing how it played out.

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

If all you care about is wins, maybe we win, maybe we don’t. But it’s one game and woody isn’t in it for one game. He is establishing precedent. These “young men” made a mistake. The individual is not greater than the team. They broke a team rule. They made the decision to go against it knowing there would be consequences. It’s all in them. The coach had no chance but to do his job and enforce it. Maybe these “young men” will place more value in the team, their families, coworkers, company’s, etc later in life as a result. One thing is for sure, our coach is not afraid to do his job.

"one game"- agreed in principle. However, that one game is now snowballing into the tanking of the season, which is going to lead to challenges with portal recruitment this summer, which increases the chances of a major slip backwards (in wins) next season, which threatens future recruiting, which, which, which.

So yes, NW was one game. But we haven't won since, and it may have started a very bad domino effect over the next 24 months. So it has bled deeply into the "big picture" now.

 

[aajohn2000]

Only comparable story and I think even Nebraska would be like ya IU bball called and said hold my beer.

No way Take off your Crimson glasses. There is no better comparison. I would argue they are identical. IUhas won B1G titles as recent as 2016. They went to Seeet sixteens twice in the last 10 years. Huskers have fallen dramatically and have not been relevant at all. Much like IU…especially the last 6 seasons. If we are having a competition for the tallest midget at the county fair, I would say it’s a tie.

 

[kurt cloverdales]

Like I said I like the move normally. In this case, I would have rather the win and make them run. Different ways to punish, but I also have the luxury of seeing how it played out.

if anything could have staggered the suspension, how would you like to be race and Trayce and basically never get to play in the ncaa tournament because 5 guys were late for bed check

 

[Courtsensetwo]

"one game"- agreed in principle. However, that one game is now snowballing into the tanking of the season, which is going to lead to challenges with portal recruitment this summer, which increases the chances of a major slip backwards (in wins) next season, which threatens future recruiting, which, which, which.

So yes, NW was one game. But we haven't won since, and it may have started a very bad domino effect over the next 24 months. So it has bled deeply into the "big picture" now.

I make the decision that Woody did ten times out of ten.

Long game big picture decision that few BIG coaches would have the maturity or strength of character to make.

 

[aajohn2000]

"one game"- agreed in principle. However, that one game is now snowballing into the tanking of the season, which is going to lead to challenges with portal recruitment this summer, which increases the chances of a major slip backwards (in wins) next season, which threatens future recruiting, which, which, which.

So yes, NW was one game. But we haven't won since, and it may have started a very bad domino effect over the next 24 months. So it has bled deeply into the "big picture" now.

Understood. But this board and us fans in general have become the king of the armchair QB. We lost to Wiscy. That had nothing to do with the NW game. We lost because they had Davis and we have no answer. We had the game won last night. But again, when it came crunch time, we folded. That fold had ZERO to do with the NW game. You can’t pick and choose which rules to follow and which you don’t. We had one only two road games prior to NW. At nebraska (winless) and Maryland (even worse team than IU). We were never winning at Sparty.

There are cinsequences and to place blame anywhere but on the players is misguided. It was the players fault for our loss to NW and each of the 3 losses since.

 

[aajohn2000]

if anything could have staggered the suspension, how would you like to be race and Trayce and basically never get to play in the ncaa tournament because 5 guys were late for bed check

Hilarious. Race and Trayce are in their 4th and 3rd seasons at IU and you are going to pin their inabikity of reaching the tournament in the NW game? We are a pathetic bunch. There are many reasons why we are not and have not ever reacted the tournament. Sitting the starters at NW isn’t one of them.

 

[SoccerSammy]

Woody did the right thing... no doubt at all. If that sends us into a tailspin then our boys are weaker mentally than we thought... This is the most ridiculous statement I've seen yet today.

 

[UTFO]

We don't have all the info Woody had, so I trust he did what he thought was best for these young men, not the NW game.

 

[aajohn2000]

Like I said I like the move normally. In this case, I would have rather the win and make them run. Different ways to punish, but I also have the luxury of seeing how it played out.

I get it, but to say we lost @Sparty, home vs Wiscy and @ OSU because of the decision to sit two starters and three role players in a previous game vs NW is more than a stretch. It’s desperate.

 

[Cavanagh]

I get it, but to say we lost @Sparty, home vs Wiscy and @ OSU because of the decision to sit two starters and three role players in a previous game vs NW is more than a stretch. It’s desperate.

l can tell you with 100% certainty tho, the outcomes could not be worse. So by doing anything different the only possible outcome was to achieve more wins, not possible to have done worse.

 

[aajohn2000]

I make the decision that Woody did ten times out of ten.

Long game big picture decision that few BIG coaches would have the maturity or strength of character to make.

Agree 100%. I support the coach and I support his decision in doing his job on enforcing team rules. I would be surprised if these players did not know there would be consequences to their actions. Zero doubt they did. And they cost two team. To debate this is silly and it speaks to not only the problem with our fans, but society in general. Accountability for one’s action is something a lot of parents and people struggle with today. Everyone thinks they are special and are a one off and special consideration should be given to them. Screw that. Hell. we even have people saying to not do the handshake at the end of a game because of Howards incident. That is running from the bigger problem and not addressing it. This situation with the players and coach is no different. JMO.

 

[.Gerdis]

We don't have all the info Woody had, so I trust he did what he thought was best for these young men, not the NW game.

Lots of people assuming we beat NU without the suspensions. Maybe, maybe not.

Perhaps something worse than playing a game would have occurred had there been no suspensions, we have no idea.

 

[aajohn2000]

l can tell you with 100% certainty tho, the outcomes could not be worse. So by doing anything different the only possible outcome was to achieve more wins, not possible to have done worse.

I know you know this because you make it public that you bet on every game. That said, you know going into NW, prior to it being announced we were sitting 5 players, the game was essentially a pick ‘em. We were underdogs at Sparty and at OSU. Vegas had us losing. And while we were favored at home vs Wiscy, we lost not because of NW, but because we can’t contain Davis and we have no play makers to close a game. We can just agree to disagree, but from my soap box, NW had ZERO to do with the losses. Nothing. It has everything to do with us being a bad team, not executing when we need to, missed defensive assignments, sloppy passes, missed free throws, missed layups, inability to create shots, yadda yadda yadda. You know, the same shit we’ve been saying all season and the three seasons prior since Yogi graduated. We lost because we aren’t a good team. Perhaps the pieces are there, but they can’t finish a game to save their season. And they had two chances in back to back games and blew both of them. But yeah, sure….it’s all because two starters, one who can’t guard a parked car, and three role players who avg less than 5 minutes playing time a game. Yep. That’s it. We lost because of sitting them agaisnt NW. C’mon Cav. You are better and smarter than this!

 

[Bligedy]

Woodson sat those guys and it was the right thing to do at Northwestern. Setting expectations is vey important in year one. But you will eventually have to have a winning culture and system like Wisconsin does. In the end it will come down to Woodson's coaching a few years from now. Like I said I will stay positive but I do feel like Wooson needs to make some big improvements next year or recruiting could dry up fast. You usually get a few years to recruit well without winning. after that it gets tough. You have to make the ncaa to sell guys on the program imo in the next year or two.

Someone needs to help him with timeouts. Too often he will burn a timeout right before a TVTO. He took one :01 before a TVTO last night. C'mon.

I love Woodson the Man. But Woodson the Coach has been disappointing.

 

[Warison]

Woody is too old for big picture and so is IU's losing ways. My opinion only, I usually would side with you on this. I just think IU is such a unique situation is college sports. It is insane how much people care about a program that is this bad. You can't name another program that is even close in football or basketball. Truly a one of a kind situation.

Torture yourself sometime and read the Nebraska board during football season. It's like looking in the mirror.

 

[aajohn2000]

Someone needs to help him with timeouts. Too often he will burn a timeout right before a TVTO. He took one :01 before a TVTO last night. C'mon.

I love Woodson the Man. But Woodson the Coach has been disappointing.

You know the TV timeout only occurs on a dead ball, right? The game doesn’t stop to execute a tv timeout. I like when woody controls the timeout and calls it before a dead ball. He has the timeouts and cannot take them in the locker room.

 

[ThreeToMakeTwo]

Husker football fans disagree.

Wait until Oklahoma sucks gas in the SEC.

 

[dbmhoosier]

"one game"- agreed in principle. However, that one game is now snowballing into the tanking of the season, which is going to lead to challenges with portal recruitment this summer, which increases the chances of a major slip backwards (in wins) next season, which threatens future recruiting, which, which, which.

So yes, NW was one game. But we haven't won since, and it may have started a very bad domino effect over the next 24 months. So it has bled deeply into the "big picture" now.

You nailed it. I understand the building a culture thing. I really do. But we simply have to make the tournament this season and next for Woody to have a chance to succeed. Miss out and it's all over. No one but the old former players wanted Woody hired. We're very close to the point where the fan base starts rooting for losses to speed up the firing process, start tweeting at recruits to go elsewhere, and completely tune the program out until a change is made.

 

[Bligedy]

You know the TV timeout only occurs on a dead ball, right? The game doesn’t stop to execute a tv timeout. I like when woody controls the timeout and calls it before a dead ball. He has the timeouts and cannot has them in the locker room

Yes.

There aren't enough that you waste them. And certainly not 10 of 15 seconds before they're gonna give you one anyway.

He called the TO with 16:01 and the TVTO occurred at 15:48.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Yes.

There are enough that you don't waste them. And certainly not 10 of 15 seconds before they're gonna give you one anyway.

He called the TO with 16:01 and the TVTO occurred at 15:48.

If you need one to create or fix a possession, you pull the trigger.

 

[bawlmer]

l can tell you with 100% certainty tho, the outcomes could not be worse. So by doing anything different the only possible outcome was to achieve more wins, not possible to have done worse.

I'd rather he find ways to get more points out of our team. The responsibility for the suspension is on the players.

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

I fully understand those who disagree with my previous post. And I'm not going to say I can make a strong case for the concept "we lost last night at OSU because we lost at NW, because Woody sat those 5 screwoffs". But I'm starting to think the results of the Chicago trip damaged the inner 'togetherness' of this team. And I have a string of losses since then to offer up as Exhibits A, B, C, and D. The final 90 seconds of last night's game was an embarrassment to this program. Every decision made on the court and on the bench was wrong. Up 4 at the 1:20 mark, in the double bonus and with the ball, with a preseason AA in the paint and your PG is 10-10 from the line that night...you almost have to TRY to lose the game at that point.

 

[ufo33]

Woody is too old for big picture and so is IU's losing ways. My opinion only, I usually would side with you on this. I just think IU is such a unique situation is college sports. It is insane how much people care about a program that is this bad. You can't name another program that is even close in football or basketball. Truly a one of a kind situation.

IU Football was worse this past season. Winless in the B1G and not competitive.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

I fully understand those who disagree with my previous post. And I'm not going to say I can make a strong case for the concept "we lost last night at OSU because we lost at NW, because Woody sat those 5 screwoffs". But I'm starting to think the results of the Chicago trip damaged the inner 'togetherness' of this team. And I have a string of losses since then to offer up as Exhibits A, B, C, and D. The final 90 seconds of last night's game was an embarrassment to this program. Every decision made on the court and on the bench was wrong. Up 4 at the 1:20 mark, in the double bonus and with the ball, with a preseason AA in the paint and your PG is 10-10 from the line that night...you almost have to TRY to lose the game at that point.

Their ability to screw themselves is beyond belief. TJD either disappears at big moments or our ability to find him does. Not sure which.

 

[IUNorth]

Agree 100%. I support the coach and I support his decision in doing his job on enforcing team rules. I would be surprised if these players did not know there would be consequences to their actions. Zero doubt they did. And they cost two team. To debate this is silly and it speaks to not only the problem with our fans, but society in general. Accountability for one’s action is something a lot of parents and people struggle with today. Everyone thinks they are special and are a one off and special consideration should be given to them. Screw that. Hell. we even have people saying to not do the handshake at the end of a game because of Howards incident. That is running from the bigger problem and not addressing it. This situation with the players and coach is no different. JMO.

Without knowing exactly what happened...what expectations were laid out before that night...what other indiscretions these kids had before that night...I don't think any of us should make proclamations on what we would or wouldn't have done.

We all now have the benefit of hindsight. And the team has now lost 4 games in a row since Woody made that decision. So I think its fair to question whether that decision had the effect that we all think it should have had. IE, did those kids learn anything from sitting that game? I don't know the answer to that? Maybe they're all much more dialed in, committed, going to classes more, not going out now, all that good stuff. And they've just happened to lose all the games after his decision.

One of the players involved, Xaver, who was playing some of his best basketball heading into that decision, has played a few really bad games since. Connected? Who knows? Worth questioning the decisions impact though.

Here's a concern I have...from my couch mind you... I don't think there's much fundamental accountability being held overall in Woody's program. He talked about turnovers early in the year...we're still VERY careless with the ball, with seemingly no repercussions. We're solid overall defensively, but every game, we have guys overhelp and make mind blowing mistakes on that end of the court...again, without apparent repercussions. Missed layups and free throws. That's concentration...repercussions?

So when you have a coach that publicly calls out things like that, but in practice, doesn't hold their feet to the fire. Is it not fair to question a very symbolic, public, suspension...and whether it will have the impact it did when RMK did it? And if it won't...why risk the losses? Why risk the change in momentum during a crucial time in the season?

Just some devils advocate thoughts.

 

[Bligedy]

Their ability to screw themselves is beyond belief. TJD either disappears at big moments or our ability to find him does. Not sure which.

Both.

 

[jimmygoiu]

Woody is too old for big picture and so is IU's losing ways. My opinion only, I usually would side with you on this. I just think IU is such a unique situation is college sports. It is insane how much people care about a program that is this bad. You can't name another program that is even close in football or basketball. Truly a one of a kind situation.

Woody could have sat these 5 the first 10 min of the game, and then had 3 days of 6am running for the 5 players, along with killer drills at practice, involving the entire team. Message received. Culture reinforced. Season saved?