Covid politics

[hoot1]

To me, this is why we need to restrict law and government to that which protects ourselves from each other. I keep referencing Lincoln's "legitimate object" quote -- both because I think it's so brilliantly stated and also because it seems as timely as ever. But I think we can apply it even to an issue like masks.

Here's the full quote again, and I'll comment on the bolded part below.

The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves---in their separate, and individual capacities.​

​

In all that the people can individually do as well for themselves, government ought not to interfere.​

​

The desirable things which the individuals of a people can not do, or can not well do, for themselves, fall into two classes: those which have relation to wrongs, and those which have not. Each of these branch off into an infinite variety of subdivisions.​

​

The first---that in relation to wrongs---embraces all crimes, misdemeanors, and non-performance of contracts. The other embraces all which, in its nature, and without wrong, requires combined action, as public roads and highways, public schools, charities, pauperism, orphanage, estates of the deceased, and the machinery of government itself.​

​

From this it appears that if all men were just, there still would be some, though not so much, need of government.​

Something like the wearing of masks clearly belongs in the "It's a good idea, you should do it to protect your health" category. Vaccines, same thing.

But we cross a line when we go into "You have to get vaccinated. You have to wear a mask." At that point, whoever is enforcing these rules has crossed that critical line. It was accepted more than normal during Covid, because we were told that masks and vaccination not only protect one's own health, they also protect the health of others around you. It's similar to the argument that led to smoking bans.

I don't doubt that second-hand smoke is unhealthy for people. But, to me, this isn't justification for imposing smoking bans on private property. If they want to ban it on public property, more power to them.

Craze, wonder how Old Abe would feel if he had observed the 1918 Influenza epidemic or Covid. Also, the strong possibility of enemy biological warfare.

Think he would put such attacks in the category of requiring a "combined action" response.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Exactly. The purpose of masks is to protect others from their own illnesses. I lived in Japan for four years and this is common practice there and I've seen it in many other countries as well.

Bc it became a virtue signal that carried on for far too long and had a deleterious impact on kids in school. Finally our AG sued the dipshit co exec who is a doctor and goofy as hell without an ounce of common sense.

AG is now our senator

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

Craze, wonder how Old Abe would feel if he had observed the 1918 Influenza epidemic or Covid. Also, the strong possibility of enemy biological warfare.

Think he would put such attacks in the category of requiring a "combined action" response.

Oh, I do too. But, given what he said in that quote, I doubt he’d have favored mandates for things like vaccines and masks.

If somebody wants to take chances with their own lives, that’s their business. Government involvement becomes necessary when one’s actions or inactions create risks and dangers for others.

 

[hoot1]

Bc it became a virtue signal that carried on for far too long and had a deleterious impact on kids in school. Finally our AG sued the dipshit co exec who is a doctor and goofy as hell without an ounce of common sense.

AG is now our senator

When it comes to " virtue signals" are standing for the national anthem and taking a knee both examples of virtue signals?

I feel the same about wearing masks during a pandemic.

Wearing a mask is a virtue signal for doing the right thing, and not wearing a mask is standing up for individual rights against misguided government authority.

 

[Digressions]

I have a problem with the logic behind this.

Basically your point is: if Alex Jones is making a case for something, it necessarily has to be opposed or resisted...because he's the one who said Sandy Hook was a false flag op.

That's just another form of tribalism.

It reminds me of the discussion we had recently about the JFK assassination. There are a gaggle of kooks who put forth ridiculous claims about the assassination that have been firmly debunked. Anna Paulina Luna recently made a debunked claim about a picture.

As such, this means that anything indicating that LHO might not have been a lone gunman is part of this same kookery.

Alex Jones is a total wackjob who should be summarily ignored. But ignoring him might mean you end up in the same place as he is on something....if that's where the facts and evidence lead. Ending up in the same place as he is on something doesn't make you a tinfoil hat Alex Jones disciple.

I agree for the most part. The right fought masks too soon. The left held on to masks too long.

My point is basically: the boy who cried wolf. Same logic.

Edit: If there were another pandemic and you could only choose one to lead, Fauci or Jones, which would you choose? How many chose Jones in 2020? ...scary.

 

[hoot1]

Oh, I do too. But, given what he said in that quote, I doubt he’d have favored mandates for things like vaccines and masks.

If somebody wants to take chances with their own lives, that’s their business. Government involvement becomes necessary when one’s actions or inactions create risks and dangers for others.

Forgetting Covid for a moment.

When doctors and nurses wash their hands between seeing patients it is about not spreading disease from patient to patient

Wearing a mask isn't just about self protection, but is also about a seemingly healthy person being a carrier and spreading a virus to a vulnerable victim.

Almost cancelled this post as we all have argued this issue repeatedly and it has gotten us no where.

 

[DANC]

Well, it was racist, you know.

Remember the outrage over calling it the Wuhan Flu?

 

[DANC]

Cancer blows

I've survived malanoma and Stage 3 kidney cancer in the last 6 years.... so far.

My motivation for survival now is pwning the libs on the board.

 

[DANC]

But it was quite a thing to see some states just continue with the draconian stuff, even as it became known what we were dealing with. To this day, I don't really understand why. Was it to demonstrate they were the responsible adults in the room?

It was mass hysteria that caused it. And it was rampant on this board.

Those of us who didn't buy the narrative were ridiculed and blamed for continuing the virus. It was much like the hysteria of the French Revolution.

 

[DANC]

In December of 2019, my kids elementary school had a "flu outbreak"...nearly half the students were out with symptoms that included crazy high fevers, dry coughs, normal flu symptoms, and... loss of smell. The last one wasn't really talked much about, but certainly came up a few months later... "Oh yeah, my child mentioned not being able to smell stuff..." That sort of thing.

I think anyone that thinks Covid started in Feb/March...well, they weren't paying close enough attention.

Covid was scary as shit. It wasn't just a "normal flu". Most of us, if we're fully honest about it, knows someone that was seemingly very healthy that either died, or was hospitalized and nearly died, from it.

The ideologies before Covid, in my opinion, give clues that the United States response to it, both politically, and from the citizens at large...like much of everything else, was reaction, counter reaction, escalation, then hardline division.

Very early on, Trump introduced travel bans... Democrats, and Trump haters lose their collective shit. The divide is created on this issue. No matter what was going to happen, whatever side Trump landed on... half the country was going to flip the other way.

So....Very quickly after that, Trump hands over "control" for the United States efforts and response to Fauci...and then proceeds to publicly question him and undermine his guidance and warnings, at every turn. Trumps stance very quickly became that the disease wasn't all that bad, and all the masks, vaccines, etc... were largely unnecessary. The Democrats, who would historically be much more of an incubator for "anti vax" thoughts and crowd, because of their hatred for Trump, galvanized as the Covid police "side"...and we were off from there. There was never a test or clue that would predict what side Democrats or Republicans would fall in such a pandemic situation. I guess maybe personal freedom of decisions, and a general wariness to follow science...might have been something to predict Republicans would be anti masks, anti vaccines...or at least anti being told they had to do those things... But Democrats have plenty of "freedom of choice" type issues themselves that, had Trump adopted the draconian measures (that he's heading towards right now, by the way in other areas)...I fully think Democrats would have "fought for our freedoms to choose what's right for our own bodies".

Trump is an egotistical dumbass...that was presented with an issue way too difficult for him to manage. So he handed over the task to someone else...and does what Trump does...second guesses and largely phucks things up for whatever benefits himself. And then Democrats did what democrats have been doing since Trump started talking about Obama Birther stuff... they set aside reason and knowledge, to "get Trump".

I had a helluva 'flu' in January, 2000, that lasted into Feb. It got into my lungs and I was as sick as I'd ever been.

I'm convinced now it was Covid. I hadn't had the flu in years before that and haven't had it since (knock on wood).

 

[mcmurtry66]

But it was quite a thing to see some states just continue with the draconian stuff, even as it became known what we were dealing with. To this day, I don't really understand why. Was it to demonstrate they were the responsible adults in the room?

to virtue signal. literally. to show they have a social conscience perceived political and moral correctness. the same fake shaming bs that kicked out woke. it's all the same recipe. blm, defund, masks, lockdowns, etc.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

the left closed businesses, made masking a virtual signal, vaccinations for people with zero risk lied about masks lied about the spread shamed if you brought up china locked down schools and closed businesses. Gtfo.

With exception of the China aspect, all of those were the correct decisions including the masks which I despised wearing. Taking pot shots at thos e things now is the politicization I refer to.

 

[mcmurtry66]

With exception of the China aspect, all of those were the correct decisions including the masks which I despised wearing. Taking pot shots at thos e things now is the politicization I refer to.

Bullshit. It was garbage and the opposite of fact-based. Manipulation in furtherance of a false narrative

 

[Courtsensetwo]

I had a helluva 'flu' in January, 2000, that lasted into Feb. It got into my lungs and I was as sick as I'd ever been.

I'm convinced now it was Covid. I hadn't had the flu in years before that and haven't had it since (knock on wood).

I know you are not a big fan of science, but can you point to any science that indicates there was covid in 2000?

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Bullshit. It was garbage and the opposite of fact-based. Manipulation in furtherance of a false narrative

C'mon man, you are smarter than this.

Have the nutjobs turned you into a sheep?

 

[mcmurtry66]

I know you are not a big fan of science, but can you point to any science that indicates there was covid in 2000?

Jesus Christ you don’t think that was a typo and he meant 2020? How stupid is this board

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Both lied. One was draconian in lockdowns virtue signaling and bs

Not when you watched you employees die

 

[mcmurtry66]

C'mon man, you are smarter than this.

Have the nutjobs turned you into a sheep?

Smarter than this. Smarter than you. Unlike sheeple I could follow the stats. Understand risk. Understand icu availability and propaganda

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Jesus Christ you don’t think that was a typo and he meant 2020? How stupid is this board

Have you read his posts?

I would never make that assumption with him.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Smarter than this. Smarter than you. Unlike sheeple I could follow the stats. Understand risk. Understand icu availability and propaganda

Those fake refrigeration trucks...quite a stunt huh?

 

[mcmurtry66]

Have you read his posts?

I would never make that assumption with him.

I don’t think much of you so I’m not sure what you’re driving at

 

[mcmurtry66]

Sigh...you were a rather objective poster at one point.

You have become a sheep.

You’re the definition of sheep. I’ve always thought for myself. The genesis of it. License. The duration was idiocy. Kids at school in masks . Parks closed. Stupid

 

[Courtsensetwo]

You’re the definition of sheep. I’ve always thought for myself

and yet you post this politicized right wing crap.

You may heve the last word.

 

[mcmurtry66]

and yet you post this politicized right wing crap.

You may heve the last word.

What right wing crap. Be specific. In your own words. Everything I told you is fact. You’re a sheep that bought in completely. Use your words and share with me the right wing crap I’m promoting

 

[sweetsilence]

×××

 

[sweetsilence]

What right wing crap. Be specific. In your own words. Everything I told you is fact. You’re a sheep that bought in completely. Use your words and share with me the right wing crap I’m promoting

I posted my address

Don't **** with my wife either. I'm sick of these Goddamn people.

 

[iuwclurker]

What right wing crap. Be specific. In your own words. Everything I told you is fact. You’re a sheep that bought in completely. Use your words and share with me the right wing crap I’m promoting

“Virtue signaling”

You put me to sleep with it. I guess that’s on me though.

I just think you’re overgeneralizing. I for one have a heart condition so I wasn’t taking any chances. I’ve got too much to live for, having been given a second chance. 😉

 

[mcmurtry66]

I posted my address

Don't **** with my wife either. I'm sick of these Goddamn people.

Covid was novel and I get the initial apprehension and need to be careful out of an abundance of caution. As we grew to know more it became yet another virtue signal for the left.

“Virtue signaling”

You put me to sleep with it. I guess that’s on me though.

I just think you’re overgeneralizing. I for one have a heart condition so I wasn’t taking any chances. I’ve got too much to live for, having been given a second chance. 😉

Absolutely. There were vulnerable people throughout that deserved precautions and care. Kids in school long after. No. Young people. Healthy people. Lockdowns. Closures. Became absurd. Kids suffered. School. Businesses. Livelihoods. Funerals. Preventive care. Trials. Clinics. Courts. Murder trial in masks. Come on.

 

[sweetsilence]

Covid was novel and I get the initial apprehension and need to be careful out of an abundance of caution. As we grew to know more it became yet another virtue signal for the left.

Absolutely. There were vulnerable people throughout that deserved precautions and care. Kids in school long after. No. Young people. Healthy people. Lockdowns. Closures. Became absurd

Chyna virus was all about destroying Trump.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Chyna virus was all about destroying Trump.

Killed a ton of people. Made a ton of people terribly sick. It also exposed the derelict state of our fed agencies and institutions and showed that we’ll politicize anything.

Labs were a mess. Testing kits shit. No way to track people. Yet we spend obscene amounts on these agencies. That’s why so many are like hell yeah get doge in there

 

[GooglyMooglyWooglyBoogly]

Most people who mask up are doing so because they're sick and trying not to infect others with what they might have. It is more effective at that then protecting themselves. This has been common practice in many parts of the world forever, especially in Asia. The masks during COVID weren't to protect the mask wearer - they were to protect others.

When did many of you self-identified conservatives become such easily offended whimps? You embarrass other conservatives. This shit doesn't hurt you at all. Suck it up, buttercup.

Your interpretation of Conservatism is well…… utterly clueless.


The pointless collectivist bullshit you are advocating here would never leave the mouth of a real conservative.You are not entitled to a life of zero risk and I am aghast that you seemingly believe you are.

Get a clue.

 

[iuwclurker]

Covid was novel and I get the initial apprehension and need to be careful out of an abundance of caution. As we grew to know more it became yet another virtue signal for the left.

Absolutely. There were vulnerable people throughout that deserved precautions and care. Kids in school long after. No. Young people. Healthy people. Lockdowns. Closures. Became absurd. Kids suffered. School. Businesses. Livelihoods. Funerals. Preventive care. Trials. Clinics. Courts. Murder trial in masks. Come on.

I was in Florida the entire time so my experience was very different than California. That seemed extremely excessive, especially for organizations that played by the rules.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I was in Florida the entire time so my experience was very different than California. That seemed extremely excessive, especially for organizations that played by the rules.

It was absurd in stl co. Masks at school finally lifted after the AG sued. My ex was pregnant. We flew down to Naples for a few weeks and it was like a different country.

 

[iuwclurker]

Killed a ton of people. Made a ton of people terribly sick. It also exposed the derelict state of our fed agencies and institutions and showed that we’ll politicize anything.

Labs were a mess. Testing kits shit. No way to track people. Yet we spend obscene amounts on these agencies. That’s why so many are like hell yeah get doge in there

The two most perturbing aspects at the beginning were Trump‘s ignoring the information he got in January:February, and then deluding the public about how bad it was because that was the time to protect the vulnerable.

Even odder to me though is that the government developed something called Decon 7 for exactly this kind of a situation about 10 years prior or so, but it wasn’t widely promulgated at the beginning of Covid or even anytime during it really. I was aware of it because my church used it and we had virtually no problems indoors whatsoever.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I was in Florida the entire time so my experience was very different than California. That seemed extremely excessive, especially for organizations that played by the rules.

I was happy to throw on a mask. Happy to get vaccinated. Eventually we had more info, who was at risk, the balance with other concerns, and it went on too long unnecessarily. It become politicized

 

[sweetsilence]

Killed a ton of people. Made a ton of people terribly sick. It also exposed the derelict state of our fed agencies and institutions and showed that we’ll politicize anything.

Labs were a mess. Testing kits shit. No way to track people. Yet we spend obscene amounts on these agencies

Of course people like me who worked hard to get a similar education get shit on by idiots like @outside shooter

No ****ing way that turd has a PhD. I looked.

 

[mcmurtry66]

The two most perturbing aspects at the beginning were Trump‘s ignoring the information he got in January:February, and then deluding the public about how bad it was because that was the time to protect the vulnerable.

Even odder to me though is that the government developed something called Decon 7 for exactly this kind of a situation about 10 years prior or so, but it wasn’t widely promulgated at the beginning of Covid or even anytime during it really. I was aware of it because my church used it and we had virtually no problems whatsoever.

Trump didn’t have the skill set to navigate Covid

 

[iuwclurker]

I was happy to throw on a mask. Happy to get vaccinated. Eventually we had more info, who was at risk, the balance with other concerns, and it went on too long unnecessarily. It become politicized

100%

 

[iuwclurker]

Trump didn’t have the skill set to navigate Covid

In the irony is that cost him the election.

And the irony of that is, I’m doubting Trump would have been so extreme as he is now if he had beaten Biden.

 

[sweetsilence]

Trump didn’t have the skill set to navigate Covid

Who did?

Should have let it roll. People die. Get over it.

The earth has a human capacity of about 9 million shitbags. We're about to experience rapid decline.