confirmation hearings

[crazed_hoosier2]

View embedded media

While I've seen no evidence that Trump (or Clinton, for that matter) ever indulged in any illicit sexual activity during their interactions with Epstein, I still have two open concerns with Trump.

First, Trump saying "It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side."

Is he just passing along something he'd heard from others about Epstein? Did he have first-hand knowledge of this when he said it? Just how young did Trump understand the "younger side" to be?

Clearly this issue wasn't what caused the falling out between Trump and Epstein. If it was, he wouldn't have been speaking of him glowingly while mentioning his penchant for "women...on the younger side."

Second, I still cannot get past Trump nominating Alex Acosta, of all people, to be Labor Secretary. Why him? He had precisely zero background in labor law. After his time as a US Attorney, he was a law school dean and is best known for financial stuff: banking and money-laundering.

Trump stayed with the Acosta nomination even after he'd said during his vetting that he gave Epstein the kid glove sentence upon instruction by his superiors at the DOJ because Epstein "belonged to intelligence." Who the hell told Acosta this? And why did this admission not torpedo his nomination?

Both of these things still smell very fishy to me.

 

[BradStevens]

CONFIRMED!!!

View embedded media

Congratulations @UncleMark

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

CONFIRMED!!!

Mitch McConnell voted against her and issued a letter explaining his vote: basically that Gabbard was prone to errors in judgment.

That's fair enough. But, I'm sorry, James Clapper was Obama's DNI....and he lied to Congress about NSA surveillance, was right in the center of the whole Trump/Russia fiasco, and was also one of the 51 signers of the infamous Hunter Biden laptop letter.

If errors in judgment are disqualifying for somebody to be DNI, how can anybody defend Clapper?

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Mitch McConnell voted against her and issued a letter explaining his vote: basically that Gabbard was prone to errors in judgment.

That's fair enough. But, I'm sorry, James Clapper was Obama's DNI....and he lied to Congress about NSA surveillance, was right in the center of the whole Trump/Russia fiasco, and was also one of the 51 signers of the infamous Hunter Biden laptop letter.

If errors in judgment are disqualifying for somebody to be DNI, how can anybody defend Clapper?

When and how did Clapper lie about NSA surveillance? The other two examples of what you say is bad judgment happened long after he was confirmed for Obama's DNI.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

When and how did Clapper lie about NSA surveillance? The other two examples of what you say is bad judgment happened long after he was confirmed for Obama's DNI.

You didn't know this? He eventually copped to it.

https://www.usnews.com/news/article...nce-director-apologizes-for-lying-to-congress

As for the other things happening after he was gone, so what? The point is that he's still held in high esteem by many people who are voting against Gabbard for having bad judgment.

If they wanted to have the credibility to be able to say that with a straight face, they would've condemned Clapper (and Brennan, Hayden, Morrel, etal) for the Russia fiasco and the Biden laptop letter. I'm sorry....but if somebody is unwilling to do that, then I'm not going to pay any attention to what they have to say about somebody else's judgment.

People have gotten so partisan that they have lost all semblance of objectivity. I've long said that Donald Trump has an incredible ability to drive people absolutely crazy: both people who support him and people who oppose him.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

You didn't know this? He eventually copped to it.

https://www.usnews.com/news/article...nce-director-apologizes-for-lying-to-congress

As for the other things happening after he was gone, so what? The point is that he's still held in high esteem by many people who are voting against Gabbard for having bad judgment.

If they wanted to have the credibility to be able to say that with a straight face, they would've condemned Clapper (and Brennan, Hayden, Morrel, etal) for the Russia fiasco and the Biden laptop letter. I'm sorry....but if somebody is unwilling to do that, then I'm not going to pay any attention to what they have to say about somebody's judgment.

People have gotten so partisan that they have lost all semblance of objectivity. I've long said that Donald Trump has an incredible ability to drive people absolutely crazy: both people who support him and people who oppose him.

I will add to this, Aloha, that Clapper was not forced to resign his office...even after he admitted to lying to Congress.

His lie was one of the things exposed by Edward Snowden's revelations. And it's one of the reasons that I find it very difficult to just flat out condemn Snowden. I cannot and will not defend anything he's done in concert with our enemies. But, as far as the NSA revelations, that is entirely on the intelligence community. They never should've done it -- and they sure as hell shouldn't have lied to everybody about it.

And, yet, Clapper is still treated as a good faith actor by many, many people. He shouldn't be.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

You didn't know this? He eventually copped to it.

https://www.usnews.com/news/article...nce-director-apologizes-for-lying-to-congress

As for the other things happening after he was gone, so what? The point is that he's still held in high esteem by many people who are voting against Gabbard for having bad judgment.

If they wanted to have the credibility to be able to say that with a straight face, they would've condemned Clapper (and Brennan, Hayden, Morrel, etal) for the Russia fiasco and the Biden laptop letter. I'm sorry....but if somebody is unwilling to do that, then I'm not going to pay any attention to what they have to say about somebody's judgment.

People have gotten so partisan that they have lost all semblance of objectivity. I've long said that Donald Trump has an incredible ability to drive people absolutely crazy: both people who support him and people who oppose him.

Now I remember, but this also happened after his confirmation so isn't relevant at the time of the confirmation vote. Tulsi's poor judgment (Syria visits, spreading pro-Russia misinformation, etc.) happened before the confirmation vote. This vote was on her, not Clapper.

I don't know that Clapper's held in such high esteem (and I'm sure the Republican Senators aren't fans - and how many were even around to confirm him for DNI back then?) and that he's displayed some poor judgment after confirmation means that we should be good with Gabbard and all future DNI's as a result? That's not objectivity and I do not agree with that premise even a little bit.

 

[UncleMark]

Congratulations @UncleMark

I'm torn.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

Now I remember, but this also happened after his confirmation so isn't relevant at the time of the confirmation vote. Tulsi's poor judgment (Syria visits, spreading pro-Russia misinformation, etc.) happened before the confirmation vote. This vote was on her, not Clapper.

I don't know that Clapper's held in such high esteem (and I'm sure the Republican Senators aren't fans - and how many were even around to confirm him for DNI back then?) and that he's displayed some poor judgment means that we should be good with Gabbard and all future DNI's as a result? That's not objectivity and I do not agree with that premise even a little bit.

Seriously?

Answer this question honestly: If Clapper was being put up for a vote today as DNI, do you think he'd get most or all of the Democratic votes? Was he forced into resigning after he admitted lying to Congress (and all of us) about the NSA? No, he wasn't. So that ought to help answer the hypothetical question.

Yes, he's held in high esteem. Maybe not by McConnell, but by virtually everybody else who voted against Gabbard. And these people simply do not occupy the moral ground upon which to denounce her judgment.

And it isn't just Clapper, BTW -- but lots and lots of people have either defended the disgraced 51 signers of that letter or otherwise just kept quiet about it.

And why? Because they hate Donald Trump so much that they were OK with our intelligence community doing such a thing in opposition to him. It's f**ked up -- and I say that as somebody who also loathes Donald Trump.

If you want to claim the moral high ground, then you have to always act accordingly. If and when you ever don't, then you've lost any claim to it.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

It's incumbent upon me to make a comment about Tulsi Gabbard, since this is the topic.

I came away pretty underwhelmed by the case made by those opposing her. As much as they said about her being "Putin's puppet" or "Assad's puppet", I don't think the facts we learned lent themselves to those characterizations.

I do, however, have one big qualm about her. But it's not about her judgment...it's about her experience, competence, and ability to command the kind of trust she's going to need to be an effective DNI. I may have voted for her, if I had a vote. I honestly don't know. I'd have rather seen somebody who has had some level of rapport with our IC...something like Bush's nomination of Porter Goss. Ratcliffe probably clears this bar, too.

But Tulsi just doesn't seem to have a great deal of relevant experience in this realm.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Seriously?

Answer this question honestly: If Clapper was being put up for a vote today as DNI, do you think he'd get most or all of the Democratic votes? Was he forced into resigning after he admitted lying to Congress (and all of us) about the NSA? No, he wasn't. So that ought to help answer the hypothetical question.

Yes, he's held in high esteem. Maybe not by McConnell, but by virtually everybody else who voted against Gabbard. And these people simply do not occupy the moral ground upon which to denounce her judgment.

And it isn't just Clapper, BTW -- but lots and lots of people have either defended the disgraced 51 signers of that letter or otherwise just kept quiet about it.

And why? Because they hate Donald Trump so much that they were OK with our intelligence community doing such a thing in opposition to him. It's f**ked up -- and I say that as somebody who also loathes Donald Trump.

If you want to claim the moral high ground, then you have to always act accordingly. If and when you ever don't, then you've lost any claim to it.

Of course, I'm serious. I very much disagree with you on this one and that's been rare.

I don't know of any evidence that everyone who voted against Gabbard would vote to confirm Clapper. If you think many of the Democrats would, that's an opinion. However, I think that and what Clapper did after confirmation is irrelevant to Gabbard's confirmation vote. The subject of this confirmation vote was Gabbard, not Clapper. She's one of Trump's poor choices who shouldn't have been confirmed. Most Republicans should have voted against her, but they've been entirely neutered and will rubber stamp everything in fear of the MAGA base. I'd vote against the poor choices and for the OK to good ones, which are the majority of his nominees.

 

[mcmurtry66]

It's incumbent upon me to make a comment about Tulsi Gabbard, since this is the topic.

I came away pretty underwhelmed by the case made by those opposing her. As much as they said about her being "Putin's puppet" or "Assad's puppet", I don't think the facts we learned lent themselves to those characterizations.

I do, however, have one big qualm about her. But it's not about her judgment...it's about her experience, competence, and ability to command the kind of trust she's going to need to be an effective DNI. I may have voted for her, if I had a vote. I honestly don't know. I'd have rather seen somebody who has had some level of rapport with our IC...something like Bush's nomination of Porter Goss. Ratcliffe probably clears this bar, too.

But Tulsi just doesn't seem to have a great deal of relevant experience in this realm.

Oh. I thought you were going to say that crazy hair streak

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

It's incumbent upon me to make a comment about Tulsi Gabbard, since this is the topic.

I came away pretty underwhelmed by the case made by those opposing her. As much as they said about her being "Putin's puppet" or "Assad's puppet", I don't think the facts we learned lent themselves to those characterizations.

I do, however, have one big qualm about her. But it's not about her judgment...it's about her experience, competence, and ability to command the kind of trust she's going to need to be an effective DNI. I may have voted for her, if I had a vote. I honestly don't know. I'd have rather seen somebody who has had some level of rapport with our IC...something like Bush's nomination of Porter Goss. Ratcliffe probably clears this bar, too.

But Tulsi just doesn't seem to have a great deal of relevant experience in this realm.

It's safe to say she has no positive intelligence experience.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

It's safe to say she has no positive intelligence experience.

I know, I agree with that. And I think that would've been a much more legitimate argument against her -- and certainly a more fair one -- than questioning her judgment, not to mention her very allegiance. It seems critical to me for anybody in intelligence leadership to at least have some level of equity with the rank-and-file, if not their own first-hand experience.

But if you're going to go around referring to somebody as "Putin's Puppet", you'd better have a much better set of facts to demonstrate this than what was brought to the table here.

(On edit: This last sentence reads like I'm accusing you personally of having said that about her. Not my intention. I don't know if you've said that or not. It was aimed at those in the Senate and elsewhere who have said these things about her.)

 

[dbmhoosier]

Russia is on a winning streak!

Trump is about to end the war. Be thankful!

 

[BradStevens]

I'm torn.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

Oh. I thought you were going to say that crazy hair streak

Actually, if I'm being perfectly honest, I find that oddly attractive.

 

[UncleMark]

Actually, if I'm being perfectly honest, I find that oddly attractive.

It's fvcking hot.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

I don't know of any evidence that everyone who voted against Gabbard would vote to confirm Clapper. If you think many of the Democrats would, that's an opinion.

It is an opinion, yes. All we can do is speculate, etc. etc.

But they would have voted for him. You know it, I know it, everybody else reading this knows it.

Clapper is not viewed as being disgraced by any prominent Democrat that I'm aware of. Not for his NSA lie, and certainly not for his involvement in the Trump/Russia thing or the Biden laptop letter. In fact, I'd lean more to him being viewed as heroic for those last two things.

However, I think that and what Clapper did after confirmation is irrelevant to Gabbard's confirmation vote.

It's relevant because people condemn her judgment but never condemned Clapper's -- or anybody else who signed that letter. Because they're almost enslaved by their disdain for Donald Trump...such that anything done in service of opposing him is seen as defensible. In fact, they're the very mirror image of people who are enslaved by their devotion to him that they can't bring themselves to see any fault in anything he says or does. Neither of these positions is at all sensible.

But that letter he signed was utterly indefensible. It should've been roundly condemned. And it has not been.

She's one of Trump's poor choices who shouldn't have been confirmed. Most Republicans should have voted against her, but they've been entirely neutered and will rubber stamp everything in fear of the MAGA base. I'd vote against the poor choices and for the OK to good ones, which are the majority of his nominees.

And you're certainly entitled to your opinion. I don't take any issue at all with your feelings about Gabbard as a nominee. It's not my point.

My point is that anybody who wants to claim the moral high ground needs to make sure they actually belong there. And almost everybody who voted against her today does not belong there.

 

[Univee2]

Oh. I thought you were going to say that crazy hair streak

Poliosis. Both my bride and daughter have it (both color it).

Sope nicknamed my daughter Rogue due to her streak.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I know, I agree with that. And I think that would've been a much more legitimate argument against her -- and certainly a more fair one -- than questioning her judgment, not to mention her very allegiance. It seems critical to me for anybody in intelligence leadership to at least have some level of equity with the rank-and-file, if not their own first-hand experience.

But if you're going to go around referring to somebody as "Putin's Puppet", you'd better have a much better set of facts to demonstrate this than what was brought to the table here.

(On edit: This last sentence reads like I'm accusing you personally of having said that about her. Not my intention. I don't know if you've said that or not. It was aimed at those in the Senate and elsewhere who have said these things about her.)

No, I haven't called her "Putin's Puppet."

 

[mcmurtry66]

Poliosis. Both my bride and daughter have it (both color it).

Sope nicknamed my daughter Rogue due to her streak.

Are they crazy? You know in the animal world those that have a stripe are considered the toughest. The alphas. Years ago my daughter and I were watching some animal show and there was a desert mouse that had one racing stripe. It’s exceptionally rare to find one with a racing stripe and it’s thought to be pound for pound the toughest most confident animal in the world. Tho it can fit in your palm. Anyway this little fckr killed a scorpion. When it got done it stood on two legs and spread its arms and roared for all to hear!

Watch out for stripes….

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

While I've seen no evidence that Trump (or Clinton, for that matter) ever indulged in any illicit sexual activity during their interactions with Epstein, I still have two open concerns with Trump.

First, Trump saying "It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side."

Is he just passing along something he'd heard from others about Epstein? Did he have first-hand knowledge of this when he said it? Just how young did Trump understand the "younger side" to be?

Clearly this issue wasn't what caused the falling out between Trump and Epstein. If it was, he wouldn't have been speaking of him glowingly while mentioning his penchant for "women...on the younger side."

Second, I still cannot get past Trump nominating Alex Acosta, of all people, to be Labor Secretary. Why him? He had precisely zero background in labor law. After his time as a US Attorney, he was a law school dean and is best known for financial stuff: banking and money-laundering.

Trump stayed with the Acosta nomination even after he'd said during his vetting that he gave Epstein the kid glove sentence upon instruction by his superiors at the DOJ because Epstein "belonged to intelligence." Who the hell told Acosta this? And why did this admission not torpedo his nomination?

Both of these things still smell very fishy to me.

It's your breath blowing back in your face.
Stop consuming MSM bullshit and the smell might go away.

 

[Univee2]

Are they crazy? You know in the animal world those that have a stripe are considered the toughest. The alphas. Years ago my daughter and I were watching some animal show and there was a desert mouse that had one racing stripe. It’s exceptionally rare to find one with a racing stripe and it’s thought to be pound for pound the toughest most confident animal in the world. Tho it can fit in your palm. Anyway this little fckr killed a scorpion. When it got done it stood on two legs and spread its arms and roared for all to hear!

Watch out for stripes….

Two obstinate, give-no-ground, take-no-prisoners females.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Two obstinate, give-no-ground, take-no-prisoners females.

Stripes

 

[UncleMark]

Poliosis. Both my bride and daughter have it (both color it).

Sope nicknamed my daughter Rogue due to her streak.

Pics or GTFO

 

[mattndallas]

No way Mark gets this joke.

 

[mattndallas]

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Stripes