Coaches in year four, historical perspective

[achoosier]

Wrote this post for premie board, took a while to dig info up, figure I’d share to broader crowd:

I realize Woodson has a well-deserved, long, slack-filled, candy-striped rope thanks to being a former player under RMK, Buckner pal (client?), King of Indiana, under .500 NBA career, business partner with the Cook family… and that hump, man… so I don’t mean to set the bar too high or anything because it makes me uncomfortable to do that… nepotism-factor affects us all…

BUT here are some notable year four performances from some other folks…

Conference-finish, tourney result:

Painter - T2, S16

Coach K - T3, R32

Izzo - 1, FF

Underwood - 2, R32

Gard - 4, R32

Matta - 5, NIT champs, but um, two 1st places and a FF by year 3

Holtmann - (OSU) 5, 1st round, had a 2nd place B10 finish and been to tourney twice in year 1-3, 2nd round exits both times, canned mid-season in year 7 after missing the tourney the prior year and looking likely to miss it again. Just noting.

Chris Collins - 5, R32 (@NORTHWESTERN), to note, has never lost to Woody, 5-straight Ws

Juwan Howard - 5, NIT, recall Howard won the B10 and went to the E8 in year 2 (fired after year 5, after missing tourney for 2nd year). Note: Former UM player, six years as NBA assistant, this was his first and only college coaching job, back now as NBA assistant.

Tom Crean - 5, S16, Crean started his IU career with the entire roster consisting of one walk-on, who was not named Trayce.

Calipari - T2, NIT, but, um, a Natty, a FF and an E8 by year 3 (three things IU hasn’t done in 22 years)

Donovan - T1, Natty Runner-up

Pearl - (Auburn) T1, R32

Few - 1, R32

Self - 1, E8

Scheyer - 2, E8 (oh, wait, that’s just his 2nd year)

Hubert Davis - 1, S16 (oh, wait, that’s just his 3rd year)

Jay Wright - 3, S16

Dan Hurley - 1, NC (his 2nd NC)

Oats - 1, S16

Bob Knight - 1, E8 (undefeated in the B10, his 3rd B10 title in his first four years) 👀

Sampson (Houston) - T2, R32

Rick Barnes (Tennessee) - T2, S16

Buzz Williams (Texas A&M) - 2, R64

Otzelberger - Only been there three years, but has a 2nd place and two S16s in that time, ranked #3 right now

Pat Kelsey - oh wait, only in 1st year, 8-1 in conference, all new roster, beat year 4 Woodson by 28 points

So, yeah… pulling for Woody to deliver

buyout drops in half on 3/31

 

[IUNorth]

Thanks for the work on this. Offers some good perspective.

Another factor to throw in to the mix is Woodson has had a few years worth of NIL and portal benefits that most of those guys you listed didn’t have.

 

[Al Bino]

Wrote this post for premie board, took a while to dig info up, figure I’d share to broader crowd:

I realize Woodson has a well-deserved, long, slack-filled, candy-striped rope thanks to being a former player under RMK, Buckner pal (client?), King of Indiana, under .500 NBA career, business partner with the Cook family… and that hump, man… so I don’t mean to set the bar too high or anything because it makes me uncomfortable to do that… nepotism-factor affects us all…

BUT here are some notable year four performances from some other folks…

Conference-finish, tourney result:

Painter - T2, S16

Coach K - T3, R32

Izzo - 1, FF

Underwood - 2, R32

Gard - 4, R32

Matta - 5, NIT champs, but um, two 1st places and a FF by year 3

Holtmann - (OSU) 5, 1st round, had a 2nd place B10 finish and been to tourney twice in year 1-3, 2nd round exits both times, canned mid-season in year 7 after missing the tourney the prior year and looking likely to miss it again. Just noting.

Chris Collins - 5, R32 (@NORTHWESTERN), to note, has never lost to Woody, 5-straight Ws

Juwan Howard - 5, NIT, recall Howard won the B10 and went to the E8 in year 2 (fired after year 5, after missing tourney for 2nd year). Note: Former UM player, six years as NBA assistant, this was his first and only college coaching job, back now as NBA assistant.

Tom Crean - 5, S16, Crean started his IU career with the entire roster consisting of one walk-on, who was not named Trayce.

Calipari - T2, NIT, but, um, a Natty, a FF and an E8 by year 3 (three things IU hasn’t done in 22 years)

Donovan - T1, Natty Runner-up

Pearl - (Auburn) T1, R32

Few - 1, R32

Self - 1, E8

Scheyer - 2, E8 (oh, wait, that’s just his 2nd year)

Hubert Davis - 1, S16 (oh, wait, that’s just his 3rd year)

Jay Wright - 3, S16

Dan Hurley - 1, NC (his 2nd NC)

Oats - 1, S16

Bob Knight - 1, E8 (undefeated in the B10, his 3rd B10 title in his first four years) 👀

Sampson (Houston) - T2, R32

Rick Barnes (Tennessee) - T2, S16

Buzz Williams (Texas A&M) - 2, R64

Otzelberger - Only been there three years, but has a 2nd place and two S16s in that time, ranked #3 right now

Pat Kelsey - oh wait, only in 1st year, 8-1 in conference, all new roster, beat year 4 Woodson by 28 points

So, yeah… pulling for Woody to deliver

buyout drops in half on 3/31

Just more proof that he has GOT TO GO!

 

[TR32]

Thanks for the work on this. Offers some good perspective.

Another factor to throw in to the mix is Woodson has had a few years worth of NIL and portal benefits that most of those guys you listed didn’t have.

Ridiculous level of NIL benefits. He can almost completely miss on HS talent to fill needs and then go buy a European for example.

 

[Harpo Marxist]

Maybe we are looking at this opposite of its real condition......The administration could perceive that...given the enormous amount of NIL collective cash raised, and ticket sales, as well as marketing and conference receipts in spite of the lack of competitive success.....that CMW's ROI is actually high, not low. IOW.....how can a program this bad be making money.....unless the coach is doing something right? I know what you are thinking.....just trying to check all the boxes.

 

[T.M.P.]

Pat Kelsey - oh wait, only in 1st year, 8-1 in conference, all new roster, beat year 4 Woodson by 28 points

Ever notice the age of that Louisville team? No one mentions this but we recruited two sophomores, a senior, a grad senior and a freshman. While L'ville and UK both filled up with seniors and grad seniors.

UK has 5 grad seniors in their main rotation. L'ville has/had 3, plus 4 four year guys. IU has 3 soph and 1 freshman in theirs. Experience matters ..

This doesn't mean Woodson doesn't suck, just that there's a glaring experience gap between those teams and IU.

 

[bsmitty08]

Wrote this post for premie board, took a while to dig info up, figure I’d share to broader crowd:

I realize Woodson has a well-deserved, long, slack-filled, candy-striped rope thanks to being a former player under RMK, Buckner pal (client?), King of Indiana, under .500 NBA career, business partner with the Cook family… and that hump, man… so I don’t mean to set the bar too high or anything because it makes me uncomfortable to do that… nepotism-factor affects us all…

BUT here are some notable year four performances from some other folks…

Conference-finish, tourney result:

Painter - T2, S16

Coach K - T3, R32

Izzo - 1, FF

Underwood - 2, R32

Gard - 4, R32

Matta - 5, NIT champs, but um, two 1st places and a FF by year 3

Holtmann - (OSU) 5, 1st round, had a 2nd place B10 finish and been to tourney twice in year 1-3, 2nd round exits both times, canned mid-season in year 7 after missing the tourney the prior year and looking likely to miss it again. Just noting.

Chris Collins - 5, R32 (@NORTHWESTERN), to note, has never lost to Woody, 5-straight Ws

Juwan Howard - 5, NIT, recall Howard won the B10 and went to the E8 in year 2 (fired after year 5, after missing tourney for 2nd year). Note: Former UM player, six years as NBA assistant, this was his first and only college coaching job, back now as NBA assistant.

Tom Crean - 5, S16, Crean started his IU career with the entire roster consisting of one walk-on, who was not named Trayce.

Calipari - T2, NIT, but, um, a Natty, a FF and an E8 by year 3 (three things IU hasn’t done in 22 years)

Donovan - T1, Natty Runner-up

Pearl - (Auburn) T1, R32

Few - 1, R32

Self - 1, E8

Scheyer - 2, E8 (oh, wait, that’s just his 2nd year)

Hubert Davis - 1, S16 (oh, wait, that’s just his 3rd year)

Jay Wright - 3, S16

Dan Hurley - 1, NC (his 2nd NC)

Oats - 1, S16

Bob Knight - 1, E8 (undefeated in the B10, his 3rd B10 title in his first four years) 👀

Sampson (Houston) - T2, R32

Rick Barnes (Tennessee) - T2, S16

Buzz Williams (Texas A&M) - 2, R64

Otzelberger - Only been there three years, but has a 2nd place and two S16s in that time, ranked #3 right now

Pat Kelsey - oh wait, only in 1st year, 8-1 in conference, all new roster, beat year 4 Woodson by 28 points

So, yeah… pulling for Woody to deliver

buyout drops in half on 3/31

How many were in their mid 60’s?

 

[GeorgeStrait IU]

How many were in their mid 60’s?

With no upside to the hire.

 

[ndhuntington]

We all know its time for Woodson to go we all knew it was a high risk hire that has backfired. It just sucks we have to wait two months.

 

[Harpo Marxist]

Ever notice the age of that Louisville team? No one mentions this but we recruited two sophomores, a senior, a grad senior and a freshman. While L'ville and UK both filled up with seniors and grad seniors.

UK has 5 grad seniors in their main rotation. L'ville has/had 3, plus 4 four year guys. IU has 3 soph and 1 freshman in theirs. Experience matters ..

This doesn't mean Woodson doesn't suck, just that there's a glaring experience gap between those teams and IU.

Oh, Yeah?.....Well, Woodson's experience makes up for it. So, there!

 

[.Gerdis]

there's a glaring experience gap between those teams and IU.

Our two best players (Ballo and Malik) are plenty experienced. Galloway is a main rotation guy with plenty of years and minutes under his belt. Leal has the years, but not the minutes, and isn’t a main rotation guy, but the leadership should be there.

It seems to me that a hallmark of IU in recent memory is having our best players be our big men. If I could change one thing in relation to roster construction that would be it. When was the last time IU’s best player was a shooting guard or a versatile wing?