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Civil war, armed fighting: is this a real possibility, just fear mongering, or something in between?

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There is a lot of speculation and fear mongering in this Newsweek article.

Are there any here on the right who think there IS a possibility of armed conflict in a 2024 close race involving Trump?

Are there any here on the left who think this is irresponsible fear mongering about the Trump faction of the Republican party?

Or will this discussion go down party lines with people calling each other idiots and fascists and communists again?

 
There is a lot of speculation and fear mongering in this Newsweek article.

Are there any here on the right who think there IS a possibility of armed conflict in a 2024 close race involving Trump?

Are there any here on the left who think this is irresponsible fear mongering about the Trump faction of the Republican party?

Or will this discussion go down party lines with people calling each other idiots and fascists and communists again?

There is so much wrong with that article that it is hard to know where to start...biased doesn't seem to do justice so it makes jumping into the conversation hard.

No, I don't think a Civil War is coming in 2024 because none of these people talking wants to be the one to fire the first shot. That being said, I do believe we are on a powder keg...if someone does fire that first shot and it begins to escalate, I think that there is a fairly large group of people who would be willing to jump in. Things will have to get really squirrelly to get to that point though. And I don't think there are enough people on either side who are willing to see their lives upended to get that far...so I guess shorter answer is no, nothing like the article suggests is likely to happen.

I know people will claim location but it is somewhat interesting to have all this handwringing over one protest and a claim of disenfranchisement relating to an election when so much of that has occurred on the side of this author for the majority of my adult life. The first presidential election I voted in had hanging chads and there have been protests, riots, claims of cheating, voter suppression, etc. in pretty much every election since then.
 
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There is a lot of speculation and fear mongering in this Newsweek article.

Are there any here on the right who think there IS a possibility of armed conflict in a 2024 close race involving Trump?

Are there any here on the left who think this is irresponsible fear mongering about the Trump faction of the Republican party?

Or will this discussion go down party lines with people calling each other idiots and fascists and communists again?

That really is a terrible piece. Freedman pressureized his anti-Trump and anti-Republican sentiment to such a level that his pressure relief valve failed and he blew his uncontrollable bullshit all over the internet.

If he really wants to show how dangerous Trump and Trumpists are, the first thing he needs to do is establish the goodness of all the things Trump fights against, including the pandemic election rule changes the Democrats hastily cobbled together. Then he can move on to the border, race obsession, crime, big tech, and the rest of it. He can’t make that case. This makes Trump stronger. The best way to neuter Trump and his gun-loving followers is for Biden/Harris et al to stop f*cking up everything.
 
There is a lot of speculation and fear mongering in this Newsweek article.

Are there any here on the right who think there IS a possibility of armed conflict in a 2024 close race involving Trump?

Are there any here on the left who think this is irresponsible fear mongering about the Trump faction of the Republican party?

Or will this discussion go down party lines with people calling each other idiots and fascists and communists again?

If these guys are concerned, I'm concerned.

 
If there is one you can lay it at the hands of the media for publishing all the crap to get people in an uproar.
Our own 200+ year experience provides a pretty clear antidote to armed civil conflict:

1. Unqualified free expression.
2. A free and independent judicial system.
3. A honest, free and fair press.

I think all three are weakened by politics and the often irresistible appetite to silence certain ideas. We can’t allow the hubris of viewing opposing points of view as “misinformation” or those who espouse them as being “undemocratic“ to prevail.
 
I never served, so I'm not going to disparage 3 generals who are falling in line with the narrative of returning vets being domestic terrorism risks. With that said, I know a lot of guys who did serve and most of them are pissed off about where we're headed. There's very little Trump support for the sake of Trump, but plenty of concern about where shift left is taking us.
 
That really is a terrible piece. Freedman pressureized his anti-Trump and anti-Republican sentiment to such a level that his pressure relief valve failed and he blew his uncontrollable bullshit all over the internet.

If he really wants to show how dangerous Trump and Trumpists are, the first thing he needs to do is establish the goodness of all the things Trump fights against, including the pandemic election rule changes the Democrats hastily cobbled together. Then he can move on to the border, race obsession, crime, big tech, and the rest of it. He can’t make that case. This ma up everythingkes Trump stronger. The best way to neuter Trump and his gun-loving followers is for Biden/Harris et al to stop f*cking.
"If he really wants to show how dangerous Trump and Trumpists are, the first thing he needs to do is establish the goodness of all the things Trump fights against, including the pandemic election rule changes the Democrats hastily cobbled together."

Can you provide us with an itemization of all those "changes", esp distinguishing which ones were only implemented AFTER the primaries and/or successfully challenged in the judiciary PRIOR to the 2020 election...
 
Our own 200+ year experience provides a pretty clear antidote to armed civil conflict:

1. Unqualified free expression.
2. A free and independent judicial system.
3. A honest, free and fair press.

I think all three are weakened by politics and the often irresistible appetite to silence certain ideas. We can’t allow the hubris of viewing opposing points of view as “misinformation” or those who espouse them as being “undemocratic“ to prevail.
None of these actually ever existed. Seriously. Never. It’s just romanticizing the past. But you got the last part right. The diff now is technology — it actually takes away both choice and analysis. IMO we are in the dystopian Marshall McLuhan-esque info wars era of civilization. And it’s eventually gonna suck way worse than this.
 
That really is a terrible piece. Freedman pressureized his anti-Trump and anti-Republican sentiment to such a level that his pressure relief valve failed and he blew his uncontrollable bullshit all over the internet.

If he really wants to show how dangerous Trump and Trumpists are, the first thing he needs to do is establish the goodness of all the things Trump fights against, including the pandemic election rule changes the Democrats hastily cobbled together. Then he can move on to the border, race obsession, crime, big tech, and the rest of it. He can’t make that case. This makes Trump stronger. The best way to neuter Trump and his gun-loving followers is for Biden/Harris et al to stop f*cking up everything.
Most Americans identified as Trumpsters aren’t gun toting idiots blindly following Trump like the followers of Bob Jones massacred in Guyana.

In fact they aren’t following Trump at all. It’s Americans sick of the Crowd who are the puppet masters of Biden.
 
None of these actually ever existed. Seriously. Never. It’s just romanticizing the past. But you got the last part right. The diff now is technology — it actually takes away both choice and analysis. IMO we are in the dystopian Marshall McLuhan-esque info wars era of civilization. And it’s eventually gonna suck way worse than this.
Can we agree that all three were more robust in the past than they now are?

The lawyer who defended the British troops for the Boston Massacre became our second President. That wouldn’t happen today.

Thomas Jefferson, the one who brought reality to the concept of “consent of the governed,“ the POTUS who stopped international slave trade in the US, who stopped the expansion of slavery into the new US territory, who advocated for abolition in different representative bodies and who was looked upon with favor for more than two centuries is now being cancelled because he wasn’t perfect on the issue.

We are hollowing out the glorious past and those who created it because we weren’t perfect. This is a greater threat than Trump.
 
Most Americans identified as Trumpsters aren’t gun toting idiots blindly following Trump like the followers of Bob Jones massacred in Guyana.

In fact they aren’t following Trump at all. It’s Americans sick of the Crowd who are the puppet masters of Biden.

Look at the concept of sentence one, (not everyone on MY side is a stereotype) then look at sentence two, (everyone on YOUR side is)

You and people like you are the problem. Fear of change, fear of difference is at the core of your lack of reason and logic. Fear is making you angry, and fear is making you dumb

Quit being a such a pussy...
 
There is so much wrong with that article that it is hard to know where to start...biased doesn't seem to do justice so it makes jumping into the conversation hard.

No, I don't think a Civil War is coming in 2024 because none of these people talking wants to be the one to fire the first shot. That being said, I do believe we are on a powder keg...if someone does fire that first shot and it begins to escalate, I think that there is a fairly large group of people who would be willing to jump in. Things will have to get really squirrelly to get to that point though. And I don't think there are enough people on either side who are willing to see their lives upended to get that far...so I guess shorter answer is no, nothing like the article suggests is likely to happen.

I know people will claim location but it is somewhat interesting to have all this handwringing over one protest and a claim of disenfranchisement relating to an election when so much of that has occurred on the side of this author for the majority of my adult life. The first presidential election I voted in had hanging chads and there have been protests, riots, claims of cheating, voter suppression, etc. in pretty much every election since then.
It's not wrong, these wackos would be suppressed though by the military. It's like Nazi Germany, but these nut jobs are suggesting allegiance towards their God, their chosen former president pussygrabber, who lost and should return to being Richard Dawson, and if he we're alive I'd probably vote for him over Trump. Trump and his people are the opposite of American values. Against the rule of law, making up lies, telling white suburban people he is the only thing protecting them from the LA Riots, sick , sick individual
 
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It's not wrong, these wackos would be suppressed though by the military. It's like Nazi Germany, but these nut jobs are suggesting allegiance towards their God, their chosen former president pussygrabber, who lost and should return to being Richard Dawson, and if he we're alive I'd probably vote for him over Trump. Trump and his people are the opposite of American values. Against the rule of law, making up lies, telling white suburban people he is the only thing protecting them from the LA Riots, sick , sick individual
You already voted for a brain dead old man , Richard Dawson would be an upgrade.
 
It's not wrong, these wackos would be suppressed though by the military. It's like Nazi Germany, but these nut jobs are suggesting allegiance towards their God, their chosen former president pussygrabber, who lost and should return to being Richard Dawson, and if he we're alive I'd probably vote for him over Trump. Trump and his people are the opposite of American values. Against the rule of law, making up lies, telling white suburban people he is the only thing protecting them from the LA Riots, sick , sick individual
It was about who Mike Pence protected us suburban people from is why I voted for Trump.
 
Look at the concept of sentence one, (not everyone on MY side is a stereotype) then look at sentence two, (everyone on YOUR side is)

You and people like you are the problem. Fear of change, fear of difference is at the core of your lack of reason and logic. Fear is making you angry, and fear is making you dumb

Quit being a such a pussy...
We agree again, which is unusual on basketball talk, is this person so damn stupid? It was Jim Jones in Guyana, at least if you're going to reference that, know you're facts! He was from Indy, not too hard to know the story. They killed government officials and then all committed suicide, can you imagine if these people were alive in Guyana watching Crean ball all doped up? It's a damn good thing they didn't have nukes and glad we are and Adidas school ...

 
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It was about who Mike Pence protected us suburban people from is why I voted for Trump.
Then you have a lot to worry about, mental health wise. Mike Pence, to his credit and though I hate his politics, protected democracy while Richard Dawson laughed from the Oval Office, sorta like Nero or Hitler!
 
Then you have a lot to worry about, mental health wise. Mike Pence, to his credit and though I hate his politics, protected democracy while Richard Dawson laughed from the Oval Office, sorta like Nero or Hitler!
I liked Mike because he was no friend of the Gay Community.
 
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No matter who he voted for in the last election it was a brain dead old man. Those were the two choice.
One is psychotic, narcissist, habitual sex offender and criminal. One is maybe eccentric and older, I'll stay in the eccentric lane till he tries to create another coup ... is there really anything more to be discussed ...

 
Maybe , due to small pockets that ignite the powder keg MM66 mentions. The question is, who are the targets? It’s supposed that trumpers are the aggressors but 1) they’ve done no violence yet, while BLM and ANTIFA ruined cities. 2) who gets shot first?

yes

yes
 
It's not wrong, these wackos would be suppressed though by the military. It's like Nazi Germany, but these nut jobs are suggesting allegiance towards their God, their chosen former president pussygrabber, who lost and should return to being Richard Dawson, and if he we're alive I'd probably vote for him over Trump. Trump and his people are the opposite of American values. Against the rule of law, making up lies, telling white suburban people he is the only thing protecting them from the LA Riots, sick , sick individual
I don't think the 70ish year old vet is representative of "the right". I do think that we are facing some pretty existential questions as to how our civic life should look going forward. That is exacerbated by a once in a century contagion, the response to it, the encroachment of the surveillance state, the encroachment of the nanny state, inability to accept differences on either side, the ubiquitous nature of technology and its intrusion into the political and social processes of this country, and a host of other issues that divide us.

Those hot button issues will, in my opinion, lead to some type of conflict if they are not addressed to everyone's satisfaction. That conflict does not necessarily have to be an armed conflict, but it is clear that on some topics we are all sick of each other's shit.
 
Look at the concept of sentence one, (not everyone on MY side is a stereotype) then look at sentence two, (everyone on YOUR side is)

You and people like you are the problem. Fear of change, fear of difference is at the core of your lack of reason and logic. Fear is making you angry, and fear is making you dumb

Quit being a such a pussy...
You should read better. Sentence two doesn’t say everyone.

Being an incel seems to have you fixated on pussies.
 
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There is a lot of speculation and fear mongering in this Newsweek article.

Are there any here on the right who think there IS a possibility of armed conflict in a 2024 close race involving Trump?

Are there any here on the left who think this is irresponsible fear mongering about the Trump faction of the Republican party?

Or will this discussion go down party lines with people calling each other idiots and fascists and communists again?

Civil war is not a realistic possibility. Approximately 99.99% of these wannabe rebels will find when the shit really hits the fan, the only thing they discharge is in their pants.

But, it's not out of the realm of possibility that we could see individual acts of terrorism from some of the craziest of the crazy.
 
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I still can't get over why there is even mention of a supposed 'civil war'.

It's beyond stupid.

We're in a now 12 year bull market and historically, things are as good as they've ever been when you really look at it (unemployment is still historically on the low side).

What are we so pissed about that there is talk of a damn civil war?

The abolition of slavery was presumably going to completely wreck the southern economy. I'm sorry it wasn't about slavery, it was states rights (lol) or northern aggressors (even though it was the south the split and fired the first shot). But slavery was believed to be crucial to the southern economy so I can at least understand why the south would be pissed.

The point being, we're at each other's throats right now even thought technically it's pretty much the 'good times'. Lord help us if we go into hyperinflation along with a market crash and severe unemployment of over 30% (which is what Germany was dealing with in the 1930's when they turned to a dictator to get them out).
 
One is psychotic, narcissist, habitual sex offender and criminal. One is maybe eccentric and older, I'll stay in the eccentric lane till he tries to create another coup ... is there really anything more to be discussed ...

Reading all your postings , perhaps you should consider some mental health evaluations yourself. You seem to live inside some strange fantasy world of your own making.
 
There is a lot of speculation and fear mongering in this Newsweek article.

Are there any here on the right who think there IS a possibility of armed conflict in a 2024 close race involving Trump?

Are there any here on the left who think this is irresponsible fear mongering about the Trump faction of the Republican party?

Or will this discussion go down party lines with people calling each other idiots and fascists and communists again?

LOL newsweek. Just more feal mongering and trying to push a narrative so Trump does not run in 2024. I do not know of one Trump voter who would ever up arms over an election but whatever they are going to stick with this narrative to try and deflect from the disater of Biden. This will be the whole narrative of the leftist media in 2024 if Trump runs and nothing to do with issues. They will just claim if he runs there will be a civil war, etc.

The only gunning down I have yet to see was when the Bernie supporter shot he the congressmean during the softball game. I have yet to see a Trump supporter attack anyone with a weapon. But newsweek will fire up the left wing and have them really believe this could happen now. Such a sad state of affairs that real journalism is totally dead.
 
I still can't get over why there is even mention of a supposed 'civil war'.

It's beyond stupid.

We're in a now 12 year bull market and historically, things are as good as they've ever been when you really look at it (unemployment is still historically on the low side).

What are we so pissed about that there is talk of a damn civil war?

The abolition of slavery was presumably going to completely wreck the southern economy. I'm sorry it wasn't about slavery, it was states rights (lol) or northern aggressors (even though it was the south the split and fired the first shot). But slavery was believed to be crucial to the southern economy so I can at least understand why the south would be pissed.

The point being, we're at each other's throats right now even thought technically it's pretty much the 'good times'. Lord help us if we go into hyperinflation along with a market crash and severe unemployment of over 30% (which is what Germany was dealing with in the 1930's when they turned to a dictator to get them out).
How bad were things for the colonists in the 1760's? The various taxes were a nuisance but it was the idea behind those things that led them to revolt...and really that was also a civil war between England proper and its subjects.

You have a laundry list of things you say are going great right now and ask why people would want to fight. My question to you then would be why if things are going so well is there a huge push from the "Progressive" (I put in quotes because I think that is a misnomer) wing of one party to change so much right now? From additional government programs in your self described time of plenty to a complete overhaul of how this country's history is viewed (straight down to a b.s. theory pushed by an idiot reporter for one of the nation's most influential newspaper).

Things are great. Why the rioting when Trump was elected? Why did we need a "resistance" that claimed to be in control and able to thwart the political will of half the voting populace? Now after the election when people think that a faction of those who basically run the country (and we aren't just talking the government) helped to steal it, they are crazy. However, it was bragged about. It was discussed from Day 1....before Day 1 of the Trump presidency. The largest public squares in this country are run by the left and they pick and choose what is true with "fact checkers" that one of them was forced to admit are anything but.

That is just politics. We haven't even gotten to the major social upheaval. IN 2008 Obama was against gay marriage. Less than 14 years later, not only do we have that but we also have one party that has pushed so far on that and related topics that we now have teachers at school pushing pronouns on children and a man threatening to break women's swimming records because he changed his name and took some different hormones after having gone through puberty as a guy (thus obtaining all the benefits that testosterone gives to an athlete...particularly one competing against biological females.) The race scab has been picked. Statues of founding fathers were getting yanked down in the summer of 2020 and there is a fight about how that topic is to be approached in elementary schools. The list goes on and on.

And I will end this to say that from the side of the aisle I occupy, the "Progressive" scolds are basically religious zealots when it comes to the topic of masks, race, sex, gender, and just about anything else. They are pushy. They cannot stand that you would have a difference of opinion. When the topic comes up and you tell them you know that you disagree and you'd rather not go there, they cannot let it go. They shun like the Puritans. They threaten your job when you get out of line by tracking you down and hounding you in the public square (Twitter, Facebook, etc.). Every argument that is made in that article on why it is a good idea to hate those who do not vote like you has a counter-argument on the other side. "They are taking away our bodily autonomy." Well, you think killing babies is the highest sacrament and the bodily autonomy and forcing medical decisions on people stops when it comes to vaccines doesn't it? "Well your lack of a vaccine impacts me." No, with the virus being discussed it clearly does not. And round and round we could go with every topic. Threatening democracy or the republic? Says the court attackers, electoral college destroyers, and filibuster nukers.

So why a Civil War talk? Because we hate each other. All this "pushing for change" has morphed a sizable portion of the right in this country from conservative to reactionary. When you are wanting to keep the status quo, you tend to do that through the system and eschew more "in your face" tactics. When you want change, that looks more messy. Pushing for change used to be an endeavor almost wholly owned by the left. So it was mostly them doing the rioting, protesting, "organizing", etc. around pushing for changes. Well, the pushing went far and fast enough that people were convinced that pushing back was the only response. As the salon article makes clear, the left has nothing to gain from the right and the right is starting to catch up to that thought process. Why the talk of Civil War? See the Salon article. If you don't value me as a person beyond a vote and brag about it, don't be surprised when that hate is returned. And if 2 people in a marriage hate each other, what is the likely outcome of that marriage?

And when you get to the root of this, you have a laundry list for why I am at fault as well. And neither of us will ever truly agree to the others framing of the discussion so how do you move forward from that?

Finally, I don't think things are going as great as you are trying to pretend either.
 
So why a Civil War talk? Because we hate each other.
I don't hate you, and I don't think you hate me. We disagree. And I think 99% of people are like us. Hell, my mom is a hard Right Winger, and my dad is a Liberal from generations of Liberals, and the only time they talk about politics is when I come over to stir the pot before I leave.

3mn1ab.png


This "Civil War" will be attended by the craziest of the crazies, and will be put down by the real military in short order.
 
How bad were things for the colonists in the 1760's? The various taxes were a nuisance but it was the idea behind those things that led them to revolt...and really that was also a civil war between England proper and its subjects.

You have a laundry list of things you say are going great right now and ask why people would want to fight. My question to you then would be why if things are going so well is there a huge push from the "Progressive" (I put in quotes because I think that is a misnomer) wing of one party to change so much right now? From additional government programs in your self described time of plenty to a complete overhaul of how this country's history is viewed (straight down to a b.s. theory pushed by an idiot reporter for one of the nation's most influential newspaper).

Things are great. Why the rioting when Trump was elected? Why did we need a "resistance" that claimed to be in control and able to thwart the political will of half the voting populace? Now after the election when people think that a faction of those who basically run the country (and we aren't just talking the government) helped to steal it, they are crazy. However, it was bragged about. It was discussed from Day 1....before Day 1 of the Trump presidency. The largest public squares in this country are run by the left and they pick and choose what is true with "fact checkers" that one of them was forced to admit are anything but.

That is just politics. We haven't even gotten to the major social upheaval. IN 2008 Obama was against gay marriage. Less than 14 years later, not only do we have that but we also have one party that has pushed so far on that and related topics that we now have teachers at school pushing pronouns on children and a man threatening to break women's swimming records because he changed his name and took some different hormones after having gone through puberty as a guy (thus obtaining all the benefits that testosterone gives to an athlete...particularly one competing against biological females.) The race scab has been picked. Statues of founding fathers were getting yanked down in the summer of 2020 and there is a fight about how that topic is to be approached in elementary schools. The list goes on and on.

And I will end this to say that from the side of the aisle I occupy, the "Progressive" scolds are basically religious zealots when it comes to the topic of masks, race, sex, gender, and just about anything else. They are pushy. They cannot stand that you would have a difference of opinion. When the topic comes up and you tell them you know that you disagree and you'd rather not go there, they cannot let it go. They shun like the Puritans. They threaten your job when you get out of line by tracking you down and hounding you in the public square (Twitter, Facebook, etc.). Every argument that is made in that article on why it is a good idea to hate those who do not vote like you has a counter-argument on the other side. "They are taking away our bodily autonomy." Well, you think killing babies is the highest sacrament and the bodily autonomy and forcing medical decisions on people stops when it comes to vaccines doesn't it? "Well your lack of a vaccine impacts me." No, with the virus being discussed it clearly does not. And round and round we could go with every topic. Threatening democracy or the republic? Says the court attackers, electoral college destroyers, and filibuster nukers.

So why a Civil War talk? Because we hate each other. All this "pushing for change" has morphed a sizable portion of the right in this country from conservative to reactionary. When you are wanting to keep the status quo, you tend to do that through the system and eschew more "in your face" tactics. When you want change, that looks more messy. Pushing for change used to be an endeavor almost wholly owned by the left. So it was mostly them doing the rioting, protesting, "organizing", etc. around pushing for changes. Well, the pushing went far and fast enough that people were convinced that pushing back was the only response. As the salon article makes clear, the left has nothing to gain from the right and the right is starting to catch up to that thought process. Why the talk of Civil War? See the Salon article. If you don't value me as a person beyond a vote and brag about it, don't be surprised when that hate is returned. And if 2 people in a marriage hate each other, what is the likely outcome of that marriage?

And when you get to the root of this, you have a laundry list for why I am at fault as well. And neither of us will ever truly agree to the others framing of the discussion so how do you move forward from that?

Finally, I don't think things are going as great as you are trying to pretend either.
To drive people to an actual civil war you would need the government to suppress them so much they are forced to take up arms. That is the only way I see it happening and Covid restrictions so far are not crazy enought to drive people to take up arms.
 
I don't hate you, and I don't think you hate me. We disagree. And I think 99% of people are like us. Hell, my mom is a hard Right Winger, and my dad is a Liberal from generations of Liberals, and the only time they talk about politics is when I come over to stir the pot before I leave.

3mn1ab.png


This "Civil War" will be attended by the craziest of the crazies, and will be put down by the real military in short order.
I don't hate you as an individual either. I still recognize that most people are more than a political stance. If we are being honest though, we probably both have a dislike for the nebulous idea of those we politically disagree with. You don't hate those you have built some rapport with or have a familiarity with because even though you may disagree on abortion, there is usually a host of other things you can bond on. To that end, the poll mentioned by Salon should be extremely troubling to everyone. If you refuse to even be friends with someone who thinks differently from you politically, then there is no opportunity to separate the individual from the nebulous idea of their politics.

I still don't think there is going to be a shooting Civil War but I do believe we are going to see social upheaval that could eventually approach the 60's. There is an anger that is boiling beneath the surface in this country and we do not have a leadership or "elite" class that are up to snuff to handle or lead through these issues.

One last thought on the crazies as well, the last two world wars were started because the small amount of crazies did things that drug everyone else with them. Crazies make it easier for the process I mentioned above to get out of control. Crazies have the loudest voices. If we are not talking to each other, crazies become the voice of the other team because they are the only voice being heard.
 
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