Can the Left save itself?

[crazed_hoosier2]

Modern liberal ends tend to be better outcomes for lower class people, minorities, etc., not to mention all the environmental stuff. I think. I wouldn't imagine this is controversial at all, so maybe I'm describing it poorly.

I’m not asking so much to cross swords with you. Just curious what you meant.

And I’m interested if a company like Aldi meets that definition, too. If their business model is to offer staples at low prices, allowing people to get more bang for the buck, I think you could make a very strong argument that this leads to better outcomes for lower class people.

So, would you say it (and other similar enterprises) counts?

And what would you say conservative ends are?

 

[hoot1]

Providing more access to transportation (and thus jobs and shopping) to the poor, combined with the environmental impacts, are undoubtedly "liberal ends."

"Liberal ends" in my book are about using government to balance the interests of those who manage and own the income producing assets while at the same time assisting consumers and workers who rely on the owners and managers for their basic needs.

Balance of course being the operative word. Political parties can compete to offer choice. However, when politics divide us to point that government loses the balance required to reach consensus we lose faith in our system of governing.

 

[snarlcakes]

 

[mattndallas]

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Sounds like processing an FHA/HUD loan. 😄

 

[The Original Happy Goat]

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It's amazing how tiny little word choices can turn a truth into a blatant lie. Biden didn't spend the 42 billion. That's why it was such a boondoggle. They spent too much time arguing with states over their applications, by the time they could actually send out any money, it was too late to accomplish anything before his term was over.

 

[GooglyMooglyWooglyBoogly]

Modern liberal ends tend to be better outcomes for lower class people, minorities, etc., not to mention all the environmental stuff. I think. I wouldn't imagine this is controversial at all, so maybe I'm describing it poorly.

Yeah. You are describing it poorly. Because it is wrong. Hard to describe falsehoods well.

 

[The Original Happy Goat]

"Liberal ends" in my book are about using government to balance the interests of those who manage and own the income producing assets while at the same time assisting consumers and workers who rely on the owners and managers for their basic needs.

Balance of course being the operative word. Political parties can compete to offer choice. However, when politics divide us to point that government loses the balance required to reach consensus we lose faith in our system of governing.

I think that's a good description of the economic end of things, but modern liberalism seems to be focused on a lot more than just economics.

 

[The Original Happy Goat]

I’m not asking so much to cross swords with you. Just curious what you meant.

And I’m interested if a company like Aldi meets that definition, too. If their business model is to offer staples at low prices, allowing people to get more bang for the buck, I think you could make a very strong argument that this leads to better outcomes for lower class people.

So, would you say it (and other similar enterprises) counts?

And what would you say conservative ends are?

I think the Aldi business plan could very well lead to liberal ends. That doesn't mean it's intended to, and a plan isn't an end in and of itself.

Conservative ends (I'm speaking traditionally here, ignoring the current populist climate) would be freer market-based economic systems, security, social order and cohesion, and a few other things I'm sure I will think about after I hit post. Seem fair?

 

[snarlcakes]

It's amazing how tiny little word choices can turn a truth into a blatant lie. Biden didn't spend the 42 billion. That's why it was such a boondoggle. They spent too much time arguing with states over their applications, by the time they could actually send out any money, it was too late to accomplish anything before his term was over.

I didn't even read the dudes comments. I posted it for the video.

 

[The Original Happy Goat]

I didn't even read the dudes comments. I posted it for the video.

That's funny, because I didn't bother to watch the video, I just launched at the dude's comments. 🤣

 

[mcmurtry66]

Modern liberal ends tend to be better outcomes for lower class people, minorities, etc., not to mention all the environmental stuff. I think. I wouldn't imagine this is controversial at all, so maybe I'm describing it poorly.

I’m not sure. In the short term yes. Long term. Dependency. Complacency. I’ve watched a city be destroyed by many of those policies

 

[The Original Happy Goat]

I’m not sure. In the short term yes. Long term. Dependency. Complacency. I’ve watched a city be destroyed by many of those policies

Perhaps the problem here is I'm just too archaic for you modern folks. In the usage here, "ends" is a synonym of "goals." I'm describing what liberals are trying to achieve. No one is trying to achieve complacency or dependency.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Perhaps the problem here is I'm just too archaic for you modern folks. In the usage here, "ends" is a synonym of "goals." I'm describing what liberals are trying to achieve. No one is trying to achieve complacency or dependency.

I’m only skimming

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

I think the Aldi business plan could very well lead to liberal ends. That doesn't mean it's intended to, and a plan isn't an end in and of itself.

Well, any endeavor that sells staple goods for less money than can be had elsewhere does so intentionally. Aldi doesn’t have low prices by accident.

Aldi's motivation is profit. For them, the model is the means, not the end. But, for their customers, stretching their dollars farther would be an end.

Conservative ends...would be freer market-based economic systems

That would be a means. What would a garden-variety conservative say are the desired ends for the freer economy they advocate?

security

Yeah, but I don't see this as being liberal or conservative. I think that anybody who has interest in civil tranquility would seek security, even if they differ on how it's best achieved.

social order and cohesion

I can go for that.

 

[The Original Happy Goat]

Well, any endeavor that sells staple goods for less money than can be had elsewhere does so intentionally. Aldi doesn’t have low prices by accident.

Aldi's motivation is profit. For them, the model is the means, not the end. But, for their customers, stretching their dollars farther would be an end.



That would be a means. What would a garden-variety conservative say are the desired ends for the freer economy they advocate?



Yeah, but I don't see this as being liberal or conservative. I think that anybody who has interest in civil tranquility would seek security, even if they differ on how it's best achieved.



I can go for that.

I think a lot of liberal and conservative ends overlap, and it's more a matter of focus. For example, no one wants there to be poverty, but a liberal is more likely to place the eradication of poverty as the end goal, and advocate for an economic system they think will achieve it, while a conservative is more likely to place a free market as the end goal, and advocate that freer markets will necessarily lead to a reduction in poverty.

 

[UncleMark]

I think a lot of liberal and conservative ends overlap, and it's more a matter of focus. For example, no one wants there to be poverty, but a liberal is more likely to place the eradication of poverty as the end goal, and advocate for an economic system they think will achieve it, while a conservative is more likely to place a free market as the end goal, and advocate that freer markets will necessarily lead to a reduction in poverty.

In our system, it's all about the means. If not, we'd just have a (hopefully) benevolent dictator.