He should be a serious candidate. What he has done at Clemson with less talent is impressive. I know it took him a while but Clemson doesn't have the resources/ NIL IU has for basketball.
Brad Brownell
- Thread starter Pazhoosier85
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I think if I were going after a coach who was showing ability to compete without talent it would be Chris Collins. Northwestern's academic standards prevents them from competing the way most Big Ten schools do.
I don't watch a lot of Clemson basketball, but I can't remember a time when I was particularly impressed with their coach- other than the fact they advanced a few rounds once or twice.
I don't watch a lot of Clemson basketball, but I can't remember a time when I was particularly impressed with their coach- other than the fact they advanced a few rounds once or twice.
Elite 8 last year for Clemson and a good team this year. Have beaten Duke and Kentucky.
I'd take Buzz Williams over Brownell.
Why does he have “less” or minimal talent? Hes in the ACC…I’m sure they have decent NIL money. Hes never really accomplished anything. And he’s been at it a while.
Better than Woody. But meh.
Better than Woody. But meh.
Yeah. This isn't the 1970's anymore. Coaches can win anywhere these days. Brownell could come here and maybe he'd do well. I don't know. But I don't automatically buy into the notion that someone who is just OK at one school will automatically do much better here because It's Indiana.
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If we have to go this far down the list, we’re officially done as a program.
I'll say the same until I'm blue in the face: form a small committee with specific skills (a bball guy, and an HR/interviewing specialist) and to prevent interviewer bias, and then interview all reasonable candidates and hire the best one. If Brownell is interested, he should be one of those interviewed.
Northwestern blew a 20 point lead to lose to Nebraska just now
Clemson historically has been a bottom tier ACC team. They are primarily a football school and basketball is an afterthought.
So? They have a top tier athletic program. They’re in arguably the top bball conference the last 20 years. And they actually have pretty good support. Little John arena is a tough place to play.
Brownell is a solid coach. Hed probably be the best coach we’ve had since RMK (besides Sampson). But if we land on him, that means we likely passed or didn’t pursue some guys like McCollum. Which I think would be a mistake.
Not sure Brownell would be the type of guy to maximize what IU could be.
Clemson bball is an ACC backwater. It's in the middle of nowhere and football is KING there. Basketball is something they do between football season and spring practice. I would guess not much NIL at all, because donors are giving to football, not bball. Press Maravich was the Clemson coach and Pete would have gone there, but he left to become the Asst at NC St and heir apparent to Everett Case. I don't think that much as changed honestly. Brownell is doing more with less; a lot less than top tier ACC programs (probably mid-tier) and IU.
Ehhh... Lots of "football" schools have done a lot more than he's done at Clemson since he arrived. One Elite 8 run doesn't get me overly excited. He's won less than 60% of his games since he arrived at Clemson...and he's been there what? 15 years. The types of coaches we're all pining for, would have turned Clemson in to a contending team, because they were really good basketball coaches.
He has a very long track record of mediocrity at Clemson. If we end up landing on Brad Brownell...ugh...
I'm just trying to be fair. I think I have a pretty good handle on Clemson's situation and NIL, living in the Carolinas. You implied they probably had "competitive NIL" for the ACC. I doubt it and would guess they are in the bottom handful of teams. Maybe the hardest ACC school to build a winning bball program, imo. I may be wrong because a single donor can change that outlook, but if I were picking ACC schools to coach bball at and build a winning program, Clemson would be at the bottom of the list. You can argue Brownell, or a better coach, could have done more, but I don't think your description of Clemson as a bball program was accurate.
I'm guessing you don't have any idea what an exciting, and more successful coach, would get NIL wise at Clemson.
Ironically, pre NIL, his teams were mediocre at best, often actually bad. He isn't nearly as good an overall coach as some on this board have consistently given him credit for throughout the years. If he hadn't played with Cheaney, and had the IU connections there and coached with Jim Crews...I can't fathom anyone on this board would ever even talk about him.
I will talk about him b/c I see how his teams have been playing on the court the last two years. Not sure why it took him 13 years to get success like this but he has sure figured it out. Look at the talent on his team this year. There are a couple of guys who might be attractive to other schools but that's it. He has been getting WAY more out of this team than the sum of it's parts, which is something we could use at IU b/c we have been getting the parts. Is he my first choice? No. Would I be disappointed if that's who we ended up with? No. Is he the "sexy" hire. No. I would take him over Scott Drew in a heart beat, tho, b/c of the way Drew has treated IU in the past. I put Brownell on par with a Cronin, McDermott, Tony Bennett hire.
I'd forgotten he played with Cheaney (if I ever knew that), and never knew he coached with Crews, so neither of those have any bearing for me and I'd guess many others here, but do think he's a solid coach. He was really good at UNCW and Wright St, before going to Clemson. I agree, he's not been overwhelming there, but good, and within the ACC it's a very difficult gig. All I said is that he's worth talking to, especially if we don't get a guy from Stevens, May or Beard. Agreed, he's not in the top tier, but if we strike out there (and we already have with Stevens, and many don't even want to consider Beard, so it's basically May or bust), it make sense to at least talk to him with guys like McCasland, McCollum, etc...
I don't think most here appreciate how hard it is to win at Clemson. Not a huge school and it is 1,000% all about football there. I I were trying to pick a B10 equivalent, I'd say Northwestern (for very different reasons), PSU or MN. 4 NCAAT's in 15 years compares favorably with those schools. Like with everyone, there is a risk, but if you have watched how hard his teams play, you can tell he's a good coach.
I would say Auburn is a pretty fair comparison and obviously what Pearl has done is amazing. Could that be done at Clemson with the right guy? I don't know. I don't think SC produces as much talent as AL and it feels more remote. I just don't know if their fans would turn out like Auburn fans have even if they had a really, really good product to watch.
If I were contemplating a coaching candidate with a less than stellar career winning % I'd look at Byington, Georgia Southern and James Madison were both crap programs in the years before he arrived, and he's doing well at Vandy. To be fair, Old Dominion's new arena opened the year he got there). He's at 63% career while Brownell is at 62%. Not saying I'd consider him because I know nothing about him except for his record. Cig was very smart not to "endorse" him, but if I was Dull Son I'd ask him for an honest appraisal and at least talk to him, if Cig was 100% positive.
Brownell is somewhat interesting because of the Indiana connection and his recent success. Over the last three years only, he's 71%, which is pretty good there. Maybe he's figured things out at age 56. I do note that career wise he's less than 60% at Clemson and was only 66% or so in 5 years at UNC Wilmington & Wright St.
McCullom before these guys and others, and only McCullom if you can't get Stevens or May and aren't allowed to get Beard. If that's the case I doubt he'd face the fan's ire for hiring guys with 62-63% winning %s.
He's been a.coach for 20+ years. Wright St, UNCW, amd now Clemson. Jobs of better stature have came amd gone..Never see his name attached.
Probably a reason for that.
Pearl winning at AU...Beard @ Ole Miss. 100% football country. And baseball. Byington winning at VU...where basketball is behind baseball. Much less football.
If he gets IU job, that's very telling of where this program is.
Vandy has way more bball support than Clemson. As I said, Press Maravich left the HC position at Clemson to become the top assistant and heir apparent to Everett Case at NC St. Think about that. And, I know it was 50+ years ago, but things haven't changed that much. The bball support and interest at Auburn and AL dwarf anything Clemson's ever had in basketball. Basketball is behind Football, Spring Football, Touch Football, Flag Football, Intramural Football, and baseball at Clemson.
Solid. Better than Woody. It'll bum me out if we end up landing on Brownell. I'd rather have a guy that has potential to be great, than a guy that's proven, for a long time now, that he's not great.
Well, I think you're already starting to see what the climate is for hiring a coach. Even with the advantages and resources of an IU; it's tough. Saying you'd pass on someone as accomplished at this level as Chris Beard without investigating is just dumb. Thankfully I don't think Dolson is dumb, but I don't think we'll hire CB. But, I'd imagine like UL and UK before us, we're gonna see hiring a good coach is tough and we might go through a few candidates. Great candidates are not falling out of the trees.
Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. Both UK and UL have coaches that are decidedly better RIGHT NOW, and having more success immediately because of that, right now, than what the coach they replaced had been showing. There are dozens of good, smart, coaches that will put us on a better path than we're on right now.
Hiring someone for a position as high level, and as important as the IU mens basketball coach will always be arduous and stressful. And just because Dolson WILL have plenty of quality candidates to consider, doesn't mean his task of picking one of them is easy. Obviously.
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