Balanced thoughts on last nights game

[IUNorth]

Well, I'll try to stay balanced.

Starting with something good... We allowed someone to go off on us, but were still able to largely control much of the game. That means, for the most part, we guarded and rebounded fairly well, and overall, we were good offensively. In the past, someone having a game like Bailey had, would have doomed us. Good sign we overcame it and won.

The flip side of that one... Bailey hit a lot of really, really tough shots to get his 39. But for very long stretches, he was being guarded by Luke Goode, then Anthony Leal. No knock on either of their efforts, they were playing their ass off. Its just a potential liability when you think those 2 guys give you the best chance of slowing down or stopping the obvious offensive focal point on the other team. There are lots of really good, long perimeter players in our conference...

I liked the spacing and the attempts to use the paint area as much or more for kickouts, as they did dumping it down to a big, to have them make post moves. We've seen more of that the last few games. I like it, a lot. Its about damn time. We have capable shooters in Mack, Trey, Luke, Myles, and Anthony when he plays. I think it was one of the Peacock studio announcers, maybe Hummel?, that said in today's game, you have to show a threat of being willing and able to make outside shots. Defenders are longer and faster, you have to be able to spread defenses out. And it appears IU is starting to do that more. It will help Rice have more room going to the basket. It will help Ballo and/or Reneau finish more easily with their post attempts. And obviously the more comfortable guys like Like and Trey get shooting the ball, they'll make more of them.

The flip side of that...we still took way too many long shots off the dribble, and still had way too many ISO situations. I think Malik and Myles are probably the only guys on our roster that can be effective by isolating and letting go 1 on 1. We did it, a lot, for Mack, Omar, and even Trey a few times. Omar finished a couple of them, and he was a mismatch a lot of the time. But he isn't comfortable in that situation. He can get just as many post touches, and probably be more effective, with just pick and rolls, duck ins, etc...

We got some help from our bench. I don't consider Ballo a bench player, but Goode has been, so both of them contributing was good to see. Anthony, while not a big stat line, was huge in this game.

The flip side of the bench players contribution...Woodson's astonishing persistence in running out "2nd units". The evidence couldn't be more clear, at this point, that he shouldn't be doing it. Yet, he keeps going back to it. I have zero issues with any of the bench guys that played last night, getting minutes. But he needs to be fitting them in with the starters, not playing them all together, or with only 1 of the starters, for long stretches. Even if they do some positive things, it completely screws up the flow of the game. But it usually just flat out isn't effective.

The outcome was a good one. But I come away feeling a little better about this team because of HOW we won, not that we won. Much more balance on offense. Defense wasn't great, but it was better than it has been, overall. We were very active attacking the glass. I would say there was more good, than bad, from last nights game. Unfortunately, the context and expectation for this team is pretty low right now. Obviously, if the expectation were still to be competing for a B10 title, one would probably have to look a little differently at this game.

 

[bdhman]

Nice summary. It’s counterfactual, but we’ll never know how this game would have turned out with Harper and Reaneu playing. Other than Bailey the rest of the Rutgers team last night was bottom half of the B10 caliber.

 

[jopajackson]

Well, I'll try to stay balanced.

Starting with something good... We allowed someone to go off on us, but were still able to largely control much of the game. That means, for the most part, we guarded and rebounded fairly well, and overall, we were good offensively. In the past, someone having a game like Bailey had, would have doomed us. Good sign we overcame it and won.

The flip side of that one... Bailey hit a lot of really, really tough shots to get his 39. But for very long stretches, he was being guarded by Luke Goode, then Anthony Leal. No knock on either of their efforts, they were playing their ass off. Its just a potential liability when you think those 2 guys give you the best chance of slowing down or stopping the obvious offensive focal point on the other team. There are lots of really good, long perimeter players in our conference...

I liked the spacing and the attempts to use the paint area as much or more for kickouts, as they did dumping it down to a big, to have them make post moves. We've seen more of that the last few games. I like it, a lot. Its about damn time. We have capable shooters in Mack, Trey, Luke, Myles, and Anthony when he plays. I think it was one of the Peacock studio announcers, maybe Hummel?, that said in today's game, you have to show a threat of being willing and able to make outside shots. Defenders are longer and faster, you have to be able to spread defenses out. And it appears IU is starting to do that more. It will help Rice have more room going to the basket. It will help Ballo and/or Reneau finish more easily with their post attempts. And obviously the more comfortable guys like Like and Trey get shooting the ball, they'll make more of them.

The flip side of that...we still took way too many long shots off the dribble, and still had way too many ISO situations. I think Malik and Myles are probably the only guys on our roster that can be effective by isolating and letting go 1 on 1. We did it, a lot, for Mack, Omar, and even Trey a few times. Omar finished a couple of them, and he was a mismatch a lot of the time. But he isn't comfortable in that situation. He can get just as many post touches, and probably be more effective, with just pick and rolls, duck ins, etc...

We got some help from our bench. I don't consider Ballo a bench player, but Goode has been, so both of them contributing was good to see. Anthony, while not a big stat line, was huge in this game.

The flip side of the bench players contribution...Woodson's astonishing persistence in running out "2nd units". The evidence couldn't be more clear, at this point, that he shouldn't be doing it. Yet, he keeps going back to it. I have zero issues with any of the bench guys that played last night, getting minutes. But he needs to be fitting them in with the starters, not playing them all together, or with only 1 of the starters, for long stretches. Even if they do some positive things, it completely screws up the flow of the game. But it usually just flat out isn't effective.

The outcome was a good one. But I come away feeling a little better about this team because of HOW we won, not that we won. Much more balance on offense. Defense wasn't great, but it was better than it has been, overall. We were very active attacking the glass. I would say there was more good, than bad, from last nights game. Unfortunately, the context and expectation for this team is pretty low right now. Obviously, if the expectation were still to be competing for a B10 title, one would probably have to look a little differently at this game.

When it comes to how Woodson uses his bench, I just don't understand it. He was interviewed last night as he was walking off the floor and he said something along the lines of, "I gotta figure out how to help our bench keep things rolling when they come in the game." I'm thinking JFC Mike.... maybe by playing a couple of them at a time you could help them out a bit. But based on that comment I think we'll contine to see the "2nd unit."

 

[IUNorth]

Nice summary. It’s counterfactual, but we’ll never know how this game would have turned out with Harper and Reaneu playing. Other than Bailey the rest of the Rutgers team last night was bottom half of the B10 caliber.

Maybe... Williams and Acuff are both pretty high level players though...Not Bailey or Harper high level, but good college players. I do think they probably missed more open looks than they normally do. But when you're missing someone like Harper, who controls and directs so much for them, it can mess with the flow. And as IU fans, we should fully understand what shooting woes from players not feeling comfortable is like.

 

[IUNorth]

When it comes to how Woodson uses his bench, I just don't understand it. He was interviewed last night as he was walking off the floor and he said something along the lines of, "I gotta figure out how to help our bench keep things rolling when they come in the game." I'm thinking JFC Mike.... maybe by playing a couple of them at a time you could help them out a bit. But based on that comment I think we'll contine to see the "2nd unit."

The correct, and obvious answer is, bring each of them in individually, and play them with multiple starters.

 

[jiouhyu]

The correct, and obvious answer is, bring each of them in individually, and play them with multiple starters.

good summary. sadly, i have zero doubt an egg will be laid by us on wed in philly. its just how we roll under this coach

 

[kurt cloverdales]

Well, I'll try to stay balanced.

Starting with something good... We allowed someone to go off on us, but were still able to largely control much of the game. That means, for the most part, we guarded and rebounded fairly well, and overall, we were good offensively. In the past, someone having a game like Bailey had, would have doomed us. Good sign we overcame it and won.

The flip side of that one... Bailey hit a lot of really, really tough shots to get his 39. But for very long stretches, he was being guarded by Luke Goode, then Anthony Leal. No knock on either of their efforts, they were playing their ass off. Its just a potential liability when you think those 2 guys give you the best chance of slowing down or stopping the obvious offensive focal point on the other team. There are lots of really good, long perimeter players in our conference...

I liked the spacing and the attempts to use the paint area as much or more for kickouts, as they did dumping it down to a big, to have them make post moves. We've seen more of that the last few games. I like it, a lot. Its about damn time. We have capable shooters in Mack, Trey, Luke, Myles, and Anthony when he plays. I think it was one of the Peacock studio announcers, maybe Hummel?, that said in today's game, you have to show a threat of being willing and able to make outside shots. Defenders are longer and faster, you have to be able to spread defenses out. And it appears IU is starting to do that more. It will help Rice have more room going to the basket. It will help Ballo and/or Reneau finish more easily with their post attempts. And obviously the more comfortable guys like Like and Trey get shooting the ball, they'll make more of them.

The flip side of that...we still took way too many long shots off the dribble, and still had way too many ISO situations. I think Malik and Myles are probably the only guys on our roster that can be effective by isolating and letting go 1 on 1. We did it, a lot, for Mack, Omar, and even Trey a few times. Omar finished a couple of them, and he was a mismatch a lot of the time. But he isn't comfortable in that situation. He can get just as many post touches, and probably be more effective, with just pick and rolls, duck ins, etc...

We got some help from our bench. I don't consider Ballo a bench player, but Goode has been, so both of them contributing was good to see. Anthony, while not a big stat line, was huge in this game.

The flip side of the bench players contribution...Woodson's astonishing persistence in running out "2nd units". The evidence couldn't be more clear, at this point, that he shouldn't be doing it. Yet, he keeps going back to it. I have zero issues with any of the bench guys that played last night, getting minutes. But he needs to be fitting them in with the starters, not playing them all together, or with only 1 of the starters, for long stretches. Even if they do some positive things, it completely screws up the flow of the game. But it usually just flat out isn't effective.

The outcome was a good one. But I come away feeling a little better about this team because of HOW we won, not that we won. Much more balance on offense. Defense wasn't great, but it was better than it has been, overall. We were very active attacking the glass. I would say there was more good, than bad, from last nights game. Unfortunately, the context and expectation for this team is pretty low right now. Obviously, if the expectation were still to be competing for a B10 title, one would probably have to look a little differently at this game.

Leal actually did a good job on him; Goode had no chance. the natural match up should have been MM , but he couldn't guard a tree. Bailey was impressive threw in some crazy shots, but I've seen way better performances by opponents in the hall, no doubt in my mind if Harper plays, we lose, that kid is a star. sometimes teams are better than their parts, we are the opposite our parts are better than our team.

I think we're looking at a complete collapse coming up to end the woody era, if this team wins a road game id be shocked

 

[IUNorth]

good summary. sadly, i have zero doubt an egg will be laid by us on wed in philly. its just how we roll under this coach

Maybe. PSU is a team that plays a style that Woodson's teams have largely struggled against. But we have been a little better against the more wide open, guard oriented teams we've played thus far...for the most part. I think it'd be a really good win to go over there and beat them. But it does seem unlikely.

 

[Seyton]

It helped a lot that Reneau wasn't available. Sad, but true.

 

[IndyResident16]

It helped a lot that Reneau wasn't available. Sad, but true.

Why?

 

[RegionHoosiers]

Because Woody couldn't play 2 bigs at once

 

[IUNorth]

It helped a lot that Reneau wasn't available. Sad, but true.

Maybe, maybe not. I guess if it forced us to play more 4 around 1, and that is what caused the more balanced attack...sure.

But Malik would have had a huge game last night, I'm sure. They didn't have anyone that could have matched up with him. It would have been at the expense of some of Ballo's numbers. But we still played a fair bit of ISO stuff with guys other than Ballo...and it largely didn't work. Put Reneau in there instead of Mack and Tucker doing it, and it would have worked more.

Maybe...just maybe...fingers crossed...pretty please...having to play more 4 out, will open Woodson's eyes more, and we'll see less double post when Malik returns. He and Ballo have both shown enough, for me, that we don't "have" play anything close to double post with them both in the game. Malik might be our 3rd or 4th best outside shooter, as an example.

 

[IndyResident16]

Because Woody couldn't play 2 bigs at once

Reneau would have had 35 last night. Rutgers had absolutely nobody that could have guarded him. IU's gotten the same perimeter shots it got last night all year with two bigs...team simply made them last night. IU shot 39% from the field last night and was terrible inside the arc. I wouldn't put a substantial amount of money on IU going 12/28 from 3 most games the rest of the year.

The issue with Reneau and Ballo is on the defensive end, especially the scheme. That didn't really change last night as Rutgers had plenty of open looks. Thankfully they aren't a good shooting team. IU is a dead team walking if Reneau is out for any significant period of time.

 

[IUNorth]

Reneau would have had 35 last night. Rutgers had absolutely nobody that could have guarded him. IU's gotten the same perimeter shots it got last night all year with two bigs...team simply made them last night. IU shot 39% from the field last night and was terrible inside the arc. I wouldn't put a substantial amount of money on IU going 12/28 from 3 most games the rest of the year.

The issue with Reneau and Ballo is on the defensive end, especially the scheme. That didn't really change last night as Rutgers had plenty of open looks. Thankfully they aren't a good shooting team. IU is a dead team walking if Reneau is out for any significant period of time.

We won't be competitive with the top teams without Reneau, for sure.

And I think I agree with the rest. But I think there is something to how those 3's were setup, how they came, and maybe even the expectation and anticipation that they'd be shooting more of them with Reneau out...that might have made them more comfortable and in rhythm, than they would have been with them being straight kickouts from space away action from more double post stuff. There was a lot more driving in the lane, kicking across, shot fakes and shots after run bys, etc... It seemed like the defenses were spread out more, and having to chase more than normal.

I strongly believe all our "shooters" hit a very high clip of their shots in practices. And you're right, we've had open looks in many games, and missed a lot of them... Tells me they were more comfortable last night, for whatever reason. I can't really quantify it well, but I think the necessity to play more 4 around 1, helped facilitate that comfort more.

Having said all that...I'll circle back...we can't consistently compete with the top teams without Reneau. Woodson, and all the guys challenge, is to find that rhythm and comfort with him and Ballo in the game together, somehow. That's how we get back to our potential.

 

[13thman]

Reneau would have had 35 last night. Rutgers had absolutely nobody that could have guarded him. IU's gotten the same perimeter shots it got last night all year with two bigs...team simply made them last night. IU shot 39% from the field last night and was terrible inside the arc. I wouldn't put a substantial amount of money on IU going 12/28 from 3 most games the rest of the year.

The issue with Reneau and Ballo is on the defensive end, especially the scheme. That didn't really change last night as Rutgers had plenty of open looks. Thankfully they aren't a good shooting team. IU is a dead team walking if Reneau is out for any significant period of time.

Fouls would have kept Reneau from getting 35. Or hockey line substitutions.

 

[BusdriverE]

good summary. sadly, i have zero doubt an egg will be laid by us on wed in philly. its just how we roll under this coach

I know for a fact we will not lay an egg on Wednesday in Philly……since we will be playing at home against USC on Wednesday 😉

 

[IndyResident16]

We won't be competitive with the top teams without Reneau, for sure.

And I think I agree with the rest. But I think there is something to how those 3's were setup, how they came, and maybe even the expectation and anticipation that they'd be shooting more of them with Reneau out...that might have made them more comfortable and in rhythm, than they would have been with them being straight kickouts from space away action from more double post stuff. There was a lot more driving in the lane, kicking across, shot fakes and shots after run bys, etc... It seemed like the defenses were spread out more, and having to chase more than normal.

I strongly believe all our "shooters" hit a very high clip of their shots in practices. And you're right, we've had open looks in many games, and missed a lot of them... Tells me they were more comfortable last night, for whatever reason. I can't really quantify it well, but I think the necessity to play more 4 around 1, helped facilitate that comfort more.

Having said all that...I'll circle back...we can't consistently compete with the top teams without Reneau. Woodson, and all the guys challenge, is to find that rhythm and comfort with him and Ballo in the game together, somehow. That's how we get back to our potential.

Rutgers is an awful defensive team this year. They played a ton of 2-3 zone last night and IU made the simple, necessary plays to beat a zone. IU didn't really do anything differently offensively than they've done all year to generate different looks because Reneau wasn't in the lineup with Ballo. At least that's the way I felt being at the game. Haven't seen any tape but my initial gut tells me that IU finally made shots that most competent D1 teams should be making.

 

[IndyResident16]

Fouls would have kept Reneau from getting 35. Or hockey line substitutions.

Perhaps, we'll never know

Reneau being out for an extended period of time is definitely not a good thing however.

 

[IUNorth]

Rutgers is an awful defensive team this year. They played a ton of 2-3 zone last night and IU made the simple, necessary plays to beat a zone. IU didn't really do anything differently offensively than they've done all year to generate different looks because Reneau wasn't in the lineup with Ballo. At least that's the way I felt being at the game. Haven't seen any tape but my initial gut tells me that IU finally made shots that most competent D1 teams should be making.

Yeah...seemed like a lot more cross court stuff than we normally see. The zone thing would lead more to that though, definitely.

But as you said, we've generated as many, or more, open looks in other games this year, and just missed them. Last night we just looked more comfortable. Bad defense, and zone, might have been the main cause for that. But I'd be pulling at that thread if I were Woody and the staff, to see if there aren't things they can work to force and emulate, even against better defensive teams.

 

[bailey777]

I know for a fact we will not lay an egg on Wednesday in Philly……since we will be playing at home against USC on Wednesday 😉

We are going to see what Woodson is really made up starting a week from Saturday when he plays 5 of the next 7 on the road when he starts to play top half competition. There is zero reason they should not have won last night vs a not very good Rutgers team without its best player at home. Sunday will be telling though that's not really a true road game. Iu will probably have 50% of the fans.

 

[IndyResident16]

Yeah...seemed like a lot more cross court stuff than we normally see. The zone thing would lead more to that though, definitely.

But as you said, we've generated as many, or more, open looks in other games this year, and just missed them. Last night we just looked more comfortable. Bad defense, and zone, might have been the main cause for that. But I'd be pulling at that thread if I were Woody and the staff, to see if there aren't things they can work to force and emulate, even against better defensive teams.

Just watched the 8 minute extended highlights on YouTube where they showed 9 out of the 12 made 3's. By my count, three directly came came off offensive rebounds/scrambles (including Leal's last second heave), three against a 2-3 zone, and then two on outbounds plays under the basket. Reinforces what I thought I saw. Glad to see the team make a good volume, hopefully it's a confidence gainer.

 

[IUNorth]

Just watched the 8 minute extended highlights on YouTube where they showed 9 out of the 12 made 3's. By my count, three directly came came off offensive rebounds/scrambles (including Leal's last second heave), three against a 2-3 zone, and then two on outbounds plays under the basket. Reinforces what I thought I saw. Glad to see the team make a good volume, hopefully it's a confidence gainer.

We've faced zones in other games, and will continue to see them, I'm sure. Especially when Malik comes back. I haven't rewatched the game...maybe we attacked the zone differently...From memory, I remember a couple of our threes being off baseline penetration, with baseline kicks to the corner. I don't remember us doing that as much in other games. And that play can be more difficult when you have more defenders in the paint with double post...zone or not. Inherently more hands to through through or around.

The Nebraska game was another one of our more high volume 3 point attempt games. And Malik was in foul trouble a lot of that game. But we missed a TON of open looks that game... The only thing I take from that, with regards to Malik, is it looks like we take more threes when he's out, than we do when he's in. Very unscientific, could be wrong. But I don't think there's any question the ball doesn't move as much when Malik is in the game.

Woodson needs to figure out how to use Malik's immense talents, without having the ball dying in his hands. Its a similar argument I made with regards to TJD. TJD was efficient, historically so. But the overall offense usually wasn't. Malik is our best, and most reliable scorer. But running things through him for long stretches hasn't produced a good offense.

 

[Seyton]

We've faced zones in other games, and will continue to see them, I'm sure. Especially when Malik comes back. I haven't rewatched the game...maybe we attacked the zone differently...From memory, I remember a couple of our threes being off baseline penetration, with baseline kicks to the corner. I don't remember us doing that as much in other games. And that play can be more difficult when you have more defenders in the paint with double post...zone or not. Inherently more hands to through through or around.

The Nebraska game was another one of our more high volume 3 point attempt games. And Malik was in foul trouble a lot of that game. But we missed a TON of open looks that game... The only thing I take from that, with regards to Malik, is it looks like we take more threes when he's out, than we do when he's in. Very unscientific, could be wrong. But I don't think there's any question the ball doesn't move as much when Malik is in the game.

Woodson needs to figure out how to use Malik's immense talents, without having the ball dying in his hands. Its a similar argument I made with regards to TJD. TJD was efficient, historically so. But the overall offense usually wasn't. Malik is our best, and most reliable scorer. But running things through him for long stretches hasn't produced a good offense.

Malik is not a post up type player. He can't handle the ball and he's not good with quick decision making. He neither swings the ball quickly nor passes out of the post well (if at all). He gets the ball knocked out of his hands a lot, though a lot of that might be dribbling and/or trying to force going somewhere there is zero space available - again, decision making). Not only that, but he takes forever - everyone sees what's coming.

He needs to be coming off some kind of motion where he can use momentum for his sweeping half hooks off the glass or stop and pop face up jumpers. I mean, that's just easy analysis. The way they use him is mostly bad.

Defensively, he's awful.

I'm not a huge Reneau fan... and the way they use him does him no favors.

 

[T.M.P.]

He needs to be coming off some kind of motion where he can use momentum for his sweeping half hooks off the glass or stop and pop face up jumpers. I mean, that's just easy analysis. The way they use him is mostly bad.

Ugh that's the way they've generally been using him in a majority possessions. His actual post ups are down from previous years. He doesn't have a face up jumper. Why would he shoot a shot he doesn't have?

Defensively, he's awful.

I would bet that per possession he's been one of our top two defenders. Checking stats...

His DWS, DBPM and DRtg backs that up where he's first/second or third in all three. Would need a full breakdown of his defensive possessions to be sure but those three stats point to him as not being awful at all .. if he were actually awful those stats would look like Mack's and Goode's.

Hmmm .. when the eye test doesn't match the stats .. means the eyes are generally fogged by biased emotion.

It's obvious you don't like him and the bias is infecting your reasoning. Did he hate on sweater vests or something? Or is it his hair?

 

[bawlmer]

Ugh that's the way they've generally been using him in a majority possessions. His actual post ups are down from previous years. He doesn't have a face up jumper. Why would he shoot a shot he doesn't have?


I would bet that per possession he's been one of our top two defenders. Checking stats...

His DWS, DBPM and DRtg backs that up where he's first/second or third in all three. Would need a full breakdown of his defensive possessions to be sure but those three stats point to him as not being awful at all .. if he were actually awful those stats would look like Mack's and Goode's.

Hmmm .. when the eye test doesn't match the stats .. means the eyes are generally fogged by biased emotion.

It's obvious you don't like him and the bias is infecting your reasoning. Did he hate on sweater vests or something? Or is it his hair?

My biggest hope for Malik was to return this season with a short jumper. He's got the soft touch for it, but at this stage it's not likely to happen. His only path to the NBA otherwise is to start averaging at least 8 rebounds per game, preferably with 2 more offensive rebounds per game. He could do it if he set his mind to it. And it would make us a helluva better team. We saw last night what it means to get more offensive rebounds.

 

[IU FAN IN W. NC]

Well, I'll try to stay balanced.

Starting with something good... We allowed someone to go off on us, but were still able to largely control much of the game. That means, for the most part, we guarded and rebounded fairly well, and overall, we were good offensively. In the past, someone having a game like Bailey had, would have doomed us. Good sign we overcame it and won.

The flip side of that one... Bailey hit a lot of really, really tough shots to get his 39. But for very long stretches, he was being guarded by Luke Goode, then Anthony Leal. No knock on either of their efforts, they were playing their ass off. Its just a potential liability when you think those 2 guys give you the best chance of slowing down or stopping the obvious offensive focal point on the other team. There are lots of really good, long perimeter players in our conference...

I liked the spacing and the attempts to use the paint area as much or more for kickouts, as they did dumping it down to a big, to have them make post moves. We've seen more of that the last few games. I like it, a lot. Its about damn time. We have capable shooters in Mack, Trey, Luke, Myles, and Anthony when he plays. I think it was one of the Peacock studio announcers, maybe Hummel?, that said in today's game, you have to show a threat of being willing and able to make outside shots. Defenders are longer and faster, you have to be able to spread defenses out. And it appears IU is starting to do that more. It will help Rice have more room going to the basket. It will help Ballo and/or Reneau finish more easily with their post attempts. And obviously the more comfortable guys like Like and Trey get shooting the ball, they'll make more of them.

The flip side of that...we still took way too many long shots off the dribble, and still had way too many ISO situations. I think Malik and Myles are probably the only guys on our roster that can be effective by isolating and letting go 1 on 1. We did it, a lot, for Mack, Omar, and even Trey a few times. Omar finished a couple of them, and he was a mismatch a lot of the time. But he isn't comfortable in that situation. He can get just as many post touches, and probably be more effective, with just pick and rolls, duck ins, etc...

We got some help from our bench. I don't consider Ballo a bench player, but Goode has been, so both of them contributing was good to see. Anthony, while not a big stat line, was huge in this game.

The flip side of the bench players contribution...Woodson's astonishing persistence in running out "2nd units". The evidence couldn't be more clear, at this point, that he shouldn't be doing it. Yet, he keeps going back to it. I have zero issues with any of the bench guys that played last night, getting minutes. But he needs to be fitting them in with the starters, not playing them all together, or with only 1 of the starters, for long stretches. Even if they do some positive things, it completely screws up the flow of the game. But it usually just flat out isn't effective.

The outcome was a good one. But I come away feeling a little better about this team because of HOW we won, not that we won. Much more balance on offense. Defense wasn't great, but it was better than it has been, overall. We were very active attacking the glass. I would say there was more good, than bad, from last nights game. Unfortunately, the context and expectation for this team is pretty low right now. Obviously, if the expectation were still to be competing for a B10 title, one would probably have to look a little differently at this game.

Very well done. My feeling watching the game but you outlined it way better than any attempt by me😀

 

[Seyton]

Ugh that's the way they've generally been using him in a majority possessions. His actual post ups are down from previous years. He doesn't have a face up jumper. Why would he shoot a shot he doesn't have?


I would bet that per possession he's been one of our top two defenders. Checking stats...

His DWS, DBPM and DRtg backs that up where he's first/second or third in all three. Would need a full breakdown of his defensive possessions to be sure but those three stats point to him as not being awful at all .. if he were actually awful those stats would look like Mack's and Goode's.

Hmmm .. when the eye test doesn't match the stats .. means the eyes are generally fogged by biased emotion.

It's obvious you don't like him and the bias is infecting your reasoning. Did he hate on sweater vests or something? Or is it his hair?

Dude, I'll give you Malik Reneau as a defender 100% of the time. 110%. Lol. Thinking he's a good defender is crazy. I don't put a lot int

 

[BA47591]

Your 5 best players are rarely, if ever, your best line-up. This thing is working itself out right in front of Woodys eyes if he'll just do it. Ballo, Mgbako, Rice and Galloway should be constant. Tucker is my choice for the last spot but Leal looked good too.

 

[BA47591]

We may have the 3 worst defenders in the conference in Goode, Mgbako and Reneau.

 

[hozo4ultimate]

Reneau would have had 35 last night. Rutgers had absolutely nobody that could have guarded him. IU's gotten the same perimeter shots it got last night all year with two bigs...team simply made them last night. IU shot 39% from the field last night and was terrible inside the arc. I wouldn't put a substantial amount of money on IU going 12/28 from 3 most games the rest of the year.

The issue with Reneau and Ballo is on the defensive end, especially the scheme. That didn't really change last night as Rutgers had plenty of open looks. Thankfully they aren't a good shooting team. IU is a dead team walking if Reneau is out for any significant period of time.

Good post. Bailey wouldn't have tip toed to the rim as much with MR on the floor. Regardless, Rutgers isn't a good team and IU handled them.

 

[TR32]

I thought it was poor basketball by both teams for much of them game. Good individual effort by Ace Bailey, of course- he looks like a top 5 draft pick, and with about 7-8 min left in the game I thought IU finally started playing better.

But for me, everythingbI need to know about this team was on display somewhere between the 18.5 to 17min mark of the first half when we saw Mgbako catch the ball on the wing, immediately put it on the floor and start trying to back his guy down, and then deciding to errant jump, spin and launch an ill-fated baseline fade away jumper, that missed, of course.

There is nothing that resembles what I consider "Indiana basketball" in that play and nothing that appears like a team on the up and up. It's unfortunate. I'll post about this upcoming PSU game because I consider that the pivot point for this team's future.

 

[jopajackson]

We may have the 3 worst defenders in the conference in Goode, Mgbako and Reneau.

Mgbako is completely clueless on defense. At one point during the game he was guarding on the wing and the player from the opposite wing drove to the nail, picked up his dribble, did a full 360 pivot. Then threw it to Mack’s man for a wide open layup on a back cut. How in the holy hell do you get back cut when the basketball is dead. That’s something that I yell at middle school kids for doing. Unreal.

 

[T.M.P.]

Mgbako is completely clueless on defense. At one point during the game he was guarding on the wing and the player from the opposite wing drove to the nail, picked up his dribble, did a full 360 pivot. Then threw it to Mack’s man for a wide open layup on a back cut. How in the holy hell do you get back cut when the basketball is dead. That’s something that I yell at middle school kids for doing. Unreal.

He plays like he's fairly new to the game. Awareness, court sense.. whatever ... is lacking.

 

[T.M.P.]

But for me, everythingbI need to know about this team was on display somewhere between the 18.5 to 17min mark of the first half when we saw Mgbako catch the ball on the wing, immediately put it on the floor and start trying to back his guy down, and then deciding to errant jump, spin and launch an ill-fated baseline fade away jumper, that missed, of course.

I watched Cheaney do the same thing in 92.

You're nitpicking ..

 

[trailrunner]

Well, I'll try to stay balanced.

Starting with something good... We allowed someone to go off on us, but were still able to largely control much of the game. That means, for the most part, we guarded and rebounded fairly well, and overall, we were good offensively. In the past, someone having a game like Bailey had, would have doomed us. Good sign we overcame it and won.

The flip side of that one... Bailey hit a lot of really, really tough shots to get his 39. But for very long stretches, he was being guarded by Luke Goode, then Anthony Leal. No knock on either of their efforts, they were playing their ass off. Its just a potential liability when you think those 2 guys give you the best chance of slowing down or stopping the obvious offensive focal point on the other team. There are lots of really good, long perimeter players in our conference...

I liked the spacing and the attempts to use the paint area as much or more for kickouts, as they did dumping it down to a big, to have them make post moves. We've seen more of that the last few games. I like it, a lot. Its about damn time. We have capable shooters in Mack, Trey, Luke, Myles, and Anthony when he plays. I think it was one of the Peacock studio announcers, maybe Hummel?, that said in today's game, you have to show a threat of being willing and able to make outside shots. Defenders are longer and faster, you have to be able to spread defenses out. And it appears IU is starting to do that more. It will help Rice have more room going to the basket. It will help Ballo and/or Reneau finish more easily with their post attempts. And obviously the more comfortable guys like Like and Trey get shooting the ball, they'll make more of them.

The flip side of that...we still took way too many long shots off the dribble, and still had way too many ISO situations. I think Malik and Myles are probably the only guys on our roster that can be effective by isolating and letting go 1 on 1. We did it, a lot, for Mack, Omar, and even Trey a few times. Omar finished a couple of them, and he was a mismatch a lot of the time. But he isn't comfortable in that situation. He can get just as many post touches, and probably be more effective, with just pick and rolls, duck ins, etc...

We got some help from our bench. I don't consider Ballo a bench player, but Goode has been, so both of them contributing was good to see. Anthony, while not a big stat line, was huge in this game.

The flip side of the bench players contribution...Woodson's astonishing persistence in running out "2nd units". The evidence couldn't be more clear, at this point, that he shouldn't be doing it. Yet, he keeps going back to it. I have zero issues with any of the bench guys that played last night, getting minutes. But he needs to be fitting them in with the starters, not playing them all together, or with only 1 of the starters, for long stretches. Even if they do some positive things, it completely screws up the flow of the game. But it usually just flat out isn't effective.

The outcome was a good one. But I come away feeling a little better about this team because of HOW we won, not that we won. Much more balance on offense. Defense wasn't great, but it was better than it has been, overall. We were very active attacking the glass. I would say there was more good, than bad, from last nights game. Unfortunately, the context and expectation for this team is pretty low right now. Obviously, if the expectation were still to be competing for a B10 title, one would probably have to look a little differently at this game.

We beat a bad team in our gym without their top 3 draft pick by 10 points. This is what happened. We will have more credible data Sunday afternoon.

 

[kurt cloverdales]

My biggest hope for Malik was to return this season with a short jumper. He's got the soft touch for it, but at this stage it's not likely to happen. His only path to the NBA otherwise is to start averaging at least 8 rebounds per game, preferably with 2 more offensive rebounds per game. He could do it if he set his mind to it. And it would make us a helluva better team. We saw last night what it means to get more offensive rebounds.

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