Are Trump's beautiful tariffs

[Marvin the Martian]

One of the repeated MAGA arguments I keep seeing is that “you don’t need that ___”. First, that certainly does not show that these tariffs are beneficial in any way.

But more to the point, it’s telling people to lower their standard of living. It’s a loser argument. It’s anti progress. It’s PETA nuts telling you not to eat a ribeye. It’s climate change pushers telling you not to drive that big truck. But it’s actually worse. At least in those examples the lowering of your standard of living has some connection to the cause. Here, telling someone they don’t need a new iPhone or TV has no relation to these stupid blanket tariffs. There is not cause for anti consumerism. In fact, if that is the cause, it will undoubtedly destroy our economy. So again, why are we telling people to lower their standard of living? What do we get out of the deal?

Yes, how does it differ from, "you don't need that giant SUV that drinks gas and should buy a Prius"?

 

[BCCHoosier]

You ever been to https://dnr.illinois.gov/parks/park.kickapoo.html

I have. Awesome area. Not long ago took my wife to the Kickapoo Rail Trail Trestle Bridge. Pretty neat.

Also like to make the drive to Shades State Park in Indiana. Great trails and low crowds.

 

[CriticArisen]

There are individual cases to be made for tariffs. Great points were made here in advance about pharma and DIB. Yes, if countries have unfair laws restricting America we have an obligation to respond.

That is not close to what happened. We put restrictions on islands with no humans and no trade. We have restrictions on Bangladesh, a country far too poor to buy much from America. We have restrictions on countries we have surpluses with

A 9/11 comparison. Bush could have that afternoon said, "we do not know who did this and I do not want to be bothered finding out, so we declare war on all other nations, territories, uninhabited islands, and planets."

That is basically what Trump did because actually thinking something through is far too hard.

We had to destroy the village to save it.

I wasn’t speaking to the execution but just to the principle. Hopefully it will get other parties to the bargaining table.

 

[Cortez88]

I have. Awesome area. Not long ago took my wife to the Kickapoo Rail Trail Trestle Bridge. Pretty neat.

Also like to make the drive to Shades State Park in Indiana. Great trails and low crowds.

Shades is an underrated gem. It’s a lot like Turkey Run with almost no people.

 

[Cortez88]

I wasn’t speaking to the execution but just to the principle. Hopefully it will get other parties to the bargaining table.

But at what cost? Could we have tried this without lopping 10% off of AMERICAN markets?

 

[CriticArisen]

But at what cost? Could we have tried this without lopping 10% off of AMERICAN markets?

Maybe but I I tend to think as another poster answered Aloha above-it needed to be heavy handed or it would have never gotten done. It would have been whittled down to the usual hot air exchange in DC. It’s not like this just happened-these tariffs have been in place for US goods for quite some time and outsourcing of critical manufacturing has been ongoing for a long time. The import shortages during Covid were just a taste of what it would be in an all out conflict. You need to rip the band aid off and be done with it. But I have no basis to say it couldn’t have been done better.

 

[Cortez88]

Yes, how does it differ from, "you don't need that giant SUV that drinks gas and should buy a Prius"?

There’s a lot of irony in the “you’re not the boss of me” crowd telling everyone we should just do without and not ask questions.

 

[sweetsilence]

Shades is an underrated gem. It’s a lot like Turkey Run with almost no people.

You had me at no people.

 

[Spartans9312]

I agree with these comments and others that don’t conclude tariffs are a certain disaster. My reasoning is something like the following-

1) Outsourcing manufacturing results in a weakness that can be exploited by strategic opponents.
2) There are in fact strategic adversaries that seek to displace the US and will happily use any and all advantages in this pursuit. Globalization is in fact but not in spirit.
3) Tariffs have built the great economies of the world by protecting local industries. Corporations have no national interests and so are not principally concerned with employing US workers nor US manufacturing but other countries do have tariffs on US goods to protect their local industries and corporations rationally take advantage of this.
4) Tariffs will serve to level the playing field and support US industry.
5) The status quo supports the long term trend of outsourcing to strategic opponents and so further strengthens strategic adversaries.
6) Changing the status quo is difficult but necessary to support the long term strategic interests of the US.
7) imposition of tariffs is more in tune with the strategic interests of the US than the status quo
8) Economists like Friedman were incorrect that increased international trade would result in globalization in spirit rather than just in fact. His idea that all the parts for helicopters would be sourced outside the country with only final assembly in the US is flawed for several reasons.
9) There are strategic opponents that will gladly screw you and the horse you rode in on and pretending that isn’t so will result in a far worse day of reckoning.

From the article I linked from National Review discussing Reagan’s import quota….it was never imposed due to the Japanese self-imposing a “voluntary export restraint”. Why did they do this? Reagan had threatened more aggressive measures…tariffs included.

“It worked. Detroit turned around, and the Japanese firms invested tens of billions of dollars in a massive new manufacturing base in the South that created hundreds of thousands of American jobs - the single, exceptional example of significant foreign manufacturing capacity relocating to America instead of the other way around. Anyone hoping for more of the same today should take note.”

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I wasn’t speaking to the execution but just to the principle. Hopefully it will get other parties to the bargaining table.

I do not know how many are pure free trade, they exist, but many accept limits. I think many realize importing so much of our pharma from China is bad and we need to make our own fighters.

I am just a big believer in picking one's battles, and that is far from what we are doing.

 

[CriticArisen]

From the article I linked from National Review discussing Reagan’s import quota….it was never imposed due to the Japanese self-imposing a “voluntary export restraint”. Why did they do this? Reagan had threatened more aggressive measures…tariffs included.

“It worked. Detroit turned around, and the Japanese firms invested tens of billions of dollars in a massive new manufacturing base in the South that created hundreds of thousands of American jobs - the single, exceptional example of significant foreign manufacturing capacity relocating to America instead of the other way around. Anyone hoping for more of the same today should take note.”

I agree that Japanese auto assembly has worked well in the US but still Japanese automakers have outsourced manufacturing of components to third parties I believe.

 

[Bill4411]

It's rumored that Bessent is looking to get out of the Trump administration in the very near future.

It's just a movie, Ferris Bueller's Day Off, but this scene was how people used to pretty much view tariffs, and I believe most economists still do.

 

[CriticArisen]

I do not know how many are pure free trade, they exist, but many accept limits. I think many realize importing so much of our pharma from China is bad and we need to make our own fighters.

I am just a big believer in picking one's battles, and that is far from what we are doing.

I agree with picking your battles but for some reason this is a battleground that no one wanted to pick. I agree that a lot of this is just chaff but there is some serious wheat mixed in.

 

[snarlcakes]

I wasn’t speaking to the execution but just to the principle. Hopefully it will get other parties to the bargaining table.

If the objective was chaos, he accomplished it🤣

 

[sweetsilence]

One of the repeated MAGA arguments I keep seeing is that “you don’t need that ___”. First, that certainly does not show that these tariffs are beneficial in any way.

But more to the point, it’s telling people to lower their standard of living. It’s a loser argument. It’s anti progress. It’s PETA nuts telling you not to eat a ribeye. It’s climate change pushers telling you not to drive that big truck. But it’s actually worse. At least in those examples the lowering of your standard of living has some connection to the cause. Here, telling someone they don’t need a new iPhone or TV has no relation to these stupid blanket tariffs. There is not cause for anti consumerism. In fact, if that is the cause, it will undoubtedly destroy our economy. So again, why are we telling people to lower their standard of living? What do we get out of the deal?

Now that I've sobered up, dammit had 46 days, anyway...day 1 again.

I'm not maga and not entirely anti consumerism. I guess it comes from boy scouts and a lifetime of being an outdoors man. I repurpose and suck the usable life out of everything.

I hate car payments. In 24 years of driving I've had a car payment 5 of those years. $240 a month, for an 07 Silverado I bought from a leasing company. Still have it. It's to the point I'm probably not able to avoid it anymore because all the bullshit people think they need now. Heated seats are great, not a necessity. Backup camera, turn your head.

I had a 2013 Ford Fusion. BTW at 6'4" great car for a tall person. Had to take the goddamm bumper off to change a headlight bulb. It's shit like that thas unnecessary. The dumbass stuff on my truck. Ugh.

 

[sweetsilence]

I have. Awesome area. Not long ago took my wife to the Kickapoo Rail Trail Trestle Bridge. Pretty neat.

Also like to make the drive to Shades State Park in Indiana. Great trails and low crowds.

Right after I graduated college I packed up and moved in with my wife, fiancee at the time. She was renting a house in Tilton on the Southside of Danville.

I had a boat and fished Kickapoo almost everyday while waiting on a job offer. I ate Gross' Burgers and Custard Cup way more than she knew about.

 

[sweetsilence]

If the objective was chaos, he accomplished it🤣

Trump is like Stiffler from American Pie. Here to F shit up.

 

[Spartans9312]

I agree that Japanese auto assembly has worked well in the US but still Japanese automakers have outsourced manufacturing of components to third parties I believe.

https://www.cars.com/american-made-index/

Toyota Camry, 3 Hondas, and a Volkswagen are more American-made than any of Detroit’s Big Three

 

[sweetsilence]

https://www.cars.com/american-made-index/

Toyota Camry, 3 Hondas, and a Volkswagen are more American-made than any of Detroit’s Big Three

My cousin works at Toyota in Princeton, IN.

I'm starting a job Monday as quality inspector at a Japanese owned car part manufacturer in Washington, IN my hometown. Guess who one of their customers are.

My grandpa served 20 years in the Army. 47-67. His first duty station was Hiroshima, 3 years in Korea. Owned mostly Toyotas. If he lived long enough Probably Kia too

 

[Spartans9312]

My cousin works at Toyota in Princeton, IN.

I'm starting a job Monday as quality inspector at a Japanese owned car part manufacturer in Washington, IN my hometown. Guess who one of their customers are.

My grandpa served 20 years in the Army. 47-67. His first duty station was Hiroshima, 3 years in Korea. Owned mostly Toyotas. If he lived long enough Probably Kia too

There is a lot of confusion about why and what the administration is doing. A lot of the fault resides with the Trump administration failing to communicate clearly. I go back to the story of Reagan and the VER….I believe that is most likely where we are headed next

 

[BCCHoosier]

My cousin works at Toyota in Princeton, IN.

I'm starting a job Monday as quality inspector at a Japanese owned car part manufacturer in Washington, IN my hometown. Guess who one of their customers are.

My grandpa served 20 years in the Army. 47-67. His first duty station was Hiroshima, 3 years in Korea. Owned mostly Toyotas. If he lived long enough Probably Kia too

My grandpa served in the South Pacific as a Marine in WW2. Would never buy a Japanese car most his life, but slowly evolved. His last car before he died was the small Lexus SUV.

 

[CriticArisen]

https://www.cars.com/american-made-index/

Toyota Camry, 3 Hondas, and a Volkswagen are more American-made than any of Detroit’s Big Three

They will be least affected by the Tariffs.

 

[twenty02]

We are all living in a Veep episode.

View embedded media

The morons in this administration couldn't complete a long division problem.

They literally are just making shit up on the fly for a color by numbers, illiterate boss.

 

[sweetsilence]

View embedded media

There is a lot of confusion about why and what the administration is doing. A lot of the fault resides with the Trump administration failing to communicate clearly. I go back to the story of Reagan and the VER….I believe that is most likely where we are headed next

I'm not a Trump sycophant. I can't stand the way he communicates, but he's spent a lifetime dealing with American society and the lowest common denominator. Get through the chaff and some of what he's doing makes sense.

Im also somewhat of an insolationist, although can't really be 100% today, and Jeffersonian in my beliefs.

I'm the kind of guy that wondes if God used evolution as a mechanism for creation.

 

[sweetsilence]

My grandpa served in the South Pacific as a Marine in WW2. Would never buy a Japanese car most his life, but slowly evolved. His last car before he died was the small Lexus SUV.

My wife's grandpa was a gunner on a Battleship in the Pacific WW2. He'll be 100 this year.

I posted links to the Judy house.

Times were different back then. I respect asain culture. They're a lot like traditional Americans. Family oriented, great food.

 

[CriticArisen]

My cousin works at Toyota in Princeton, IN.

I'm starting a job Monday as quality inspector at a Japanese owned car part manufacturer in Washington, IN my hometown. Guess who one of their customers are.

My grandpa served 20 years in the Army. 47-67. His first duty station was Hiroshima, 3 years in Korea. Owned mostly Toyotas. If he lived long enough Probably Kia too

Good luck with your new job. I guess Japanese manufacturing still puts a lot of importance on quality.

 

[sweetsilence]

Good luck with your new job. I guess Japanese manufacturing still puts a lot of importance on quality.

Thanks. I'll find out when I start. I applied for quality inspector.

Dress code is Khaki pants, blue t shirt and steel toes.

 

[CriticArisen]

Thanks. I'll find out when I start. I applied for quality inspector.

Dress code is Khaki pants, blue t shirt and steel toes.

They had crap quality until MacArthur brought in Deming and then it all changed.

 

[Spartans9312]

I'm not a Trump sycophant. I can't stand the way he communicates, but he's spent a lifetime dealing with American society and the lowest common denominator. Get through the chaff and some of what he's doing makes sense.

Im also somewhat of an insolationist, although can't really be 100% today, and Jeffersonian in my beliefs.

I'm the kind of guy that wondes if God used evolution as a mechanism for creation.

The 10% global tariff seems intended to be permanent. I believe that because he exempted Canada and Mexico. I think he wants to renegotiate USMCA.

 

[BradStevens]

One of the repeated MAGA arguments I keep seeing is that “you don’t need that ___”. First, that certainly does not show that these tariffs are beneficial in any way.

But more to the point, it’s telling people to lower their standard of living. It’s a loser argument. It’s anti progress. It’s PETA nuts telling you not to eat a ribeye. It’s climate change pushers telling you not to drive that big truck. But it’s actually worse. At least in those examples the lowering of your standard of living has some connection to the cause. Here, telling someone they don’t need a new iPhone or TV has no relation to these stupid blanket tariffs. There is not cause for anti consumerism. In fact, if that is the cause, it will undoubtedly destroy our economy. So again, why are we telling people to lower their standard of living? What do we get out of the deal?

Do you want a steelman of the argument or are these rhetorical?

 

[Cortez88]

Do you want a steelman of the argument or are these rhetorical?

If I’m missing something, I’d gladly consider it.

 

[sweetsilence]

The 10% global tariff seems intended to be permanent. I believe that because he exempted Canada and Mexico. I think he wants to renegotiate USMCA.

Trumps biggest problem is messaging. Let's be real, hes white trash with money. I'm about as much a gun guy as it gets.

What gets attention? Big capital letters and loudass pastel colored signs.

The thing about trump is as much as people call him a liar he laid it out to play it out. He wasn't an unknown commodity

 

[BradStevens]

My grandpa served in the South Pacific as a Marine in WW2. Would never buy a Japanese car most his life, but slowly evolved. His last car before he died was the small Lexus SUV.

Yeah, mine served in Europe. Would never buy a Japanese car and hated them until the day he died. Still blamed them for us entering the war.

 

[Noodle]

 

[BradStevens]

If I’m missing something, I’d gladly consider it.

You're not missing it, you've heard it before and probably don't agree with it.

The theory is that we get out of the deal a renewed middle class, a renewed manufacturing base, a different, fairer (to the U.S.) international trade system, revenue that can offset income tax cuts, and ultimately a more self-sufficient national economy.

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/04/02/trump-tariffs-what-he-hopes-to-accomplish.html

 

[CriticArisen]

Trumps biggest problem is messaging. Let's be real, hes white trash with money. I'm about as much a gun guy as it gets.

What gets attention? Big capital letters and loudass pastel colored signs.

The thing about trump is as much as people call him a liar he laid it out to play it out. He wasn't an unknown commodity

I agree with you and also a gun guy. The difference maybe that I don’t think either party has a monopoly on stupidity and at least Trump is actually trying to impact problems rather than just talking about them. He is an idiot about technical things but then as a rule politicians are idiots about technical things. My preference is he just keeps his mouth shut and does what he needs to do but then criticism of that would follow just as night follows day.

 

[CriticArisen]

Yeah, mine served in Europe. Would never buy a Japanese car and hated them until the day he died. Still blamed them for us entering the war.

Sounds like mine. My wife is a naturalised American and I told him my wife and I were going to eat sushi and that set off a rant about the Japanese that started at Pear Harbor and ended with Hiroshima. After we left my wife just said-WOW.

 

[Cortez88]

You're not missing it, you've heard it before and probably don't agree with it.

The theory is that we get out of the deal a renewed middle class, a renewed manufacturing base, a different, fairer (to the U.S.) international trade system, revenue that can offset income tax cuts, and ultimately a more self-sufficient national economy.

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/04/02/trump-tariffs-what-he-hopes-to-accomplish.html

Understood. That seems to gloss over the $6T that disappeared the last 2 days.

 

[Spartans9312]

Trumps biggest problem is messaging. Let's be real, hes white trash with money. I'm about as much a gun guy as it gets.

What gets attention? Big capital letters and loudass pastel colored signs.

The thing about trump is as much as people call him a liar he laid it out to play it out. He wasn't an unknown commodity

I don’t mind a 10% global tariff but I think there should be a set adjustment mechanism based on certain parameters. Trump seems to be using a different method

 

[Marvin the Martian]

You're not missing it, you've heard it before and probably don't agree with it.

The theory is that we get out of the deal a renewed middle class, a renewed manufacturing base, a different, fairer (to the U.S.) international trade system, revenue that can offset income tax cuts, and ultimately a more self-sufficient national economy.

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/04/02/trump-tariffs-what-he-hopes-to-accomplish.html

That explains tariffs in general, not tariffs on everything everywhere. Are we really going to gain trade on uninhabited islands? The UK with whom we have a surplus? Sounds like THEY have the complaint, not us, in our relationship.