Archie's recruiting

[Paterfamilias]

Since we never really discuss recruiting, star rankings and the like, I thought I'd stir it up a bit to get some discussion going.

The chart below lists the recruits that Miller has landed to date along with some 2020 guys that he may still have some shot at. The color coding goes like this

Bold Red & Yellow = McD AA or Top 25 ranking
Bold Red = Top 75 (26-75)
Bold Blue = Top 100 (76-100)
Blue = 4* (101-125 or ESPN 81+)
Orange = Low 4* and High 3* (126-150)
Black = Unrated 3* and N/A's

I also included a column that shows each recruits highest 247 composite ranking over the past year or two. I think you'll notice (if you can bear to look at my ugly chart) that the Geronimo is the only unheralded player of the bunch... and I really want him Galloway will take a big leap in the next Rivals installment and Thompson likely would have ranked higher had he not reclassified.

 

[ORG]

Thank you for putting this all into an easily digetable formats!

 

[TommyCracker]

Your right on Race, I remember him being a consensus top 80ish 4 star for the class of 2018, which was his real class.

Thanks for putting this together.

The other thing I like about Archie's recruiting so far is he tends to get on guys before the rankers do...or it seems that way.

I remember him watching and then offering the unranked or low ranked Cole Swider, who shot up to a near five star, was a burger boy and committed to Villanova.

The two guys he supposedly entertained bringing over from Dayton were unranked Naz Carter and McKinley Wright. Carter started at Washington last year and Wright is considered one of the best players in the conference coming into his junior year.

He was also crazy for TJD before he blew up.

He loved Aaron Henry last year, who was a lowly 3 star who we were the favorite until Anderson jumped.

Anyway, I have confidence in his ability to evaluate talent which is why I don't freak out over recruiting rankings with him.

 

[Paterfamilias]

Your right on Race, I remember him being a consensus top 80ish 4 star for the class of 2018, which was his real class.

Thanks for putting this together.

The other thing I like about Archie's recruiting so far is he tends to get on guys before the rankers do...or it seems that way.

I remember him watching and then offering the unranked or low ranked Cole Swider, who shot up to a near five star, was a burger boy and committed to Villanova.

The two guys he supposedly entertained bringing over from Dayton were unranked Naz Carter and McKinley Wright. Carter started at Washington last year and Wright is considered one of the best players in the conference coming into his junior year.

He was also crazy for TJD before he blew up.

He loved Aaron Henry last year, who was a lowly 3 star who we were the favorite until Anderson jumped.

Anyway, I have confidence in his ability to evaluate talent which is why I don't freak out over recruiting rankings with him.

That goofy Kentucky thread had me shaking my head. Archie's recruiting/roster building and overall philosophy are great imo... not just good. Every fan has their own preferences though, so reasonable people can still hate the recruiting etc. and think I'm the goofy one. It's just a bit aggravating when people suggest that Galloway is a reach because he's a 3 Star on Rivals... end of story... don't look at any other rankings or consider any other factors. Just watch some clips! Dude looks like a baller to me

Why ignore the fact that Rivals scouts themselves have said that they muffed the Galloway ranking and that he'll take a major jump in the next update. Why ignore the fact that prior to the injury season he was Top 75 in the 247 composite. Why ignore the fact that the kid has offers from Izzo, Brey and Painter.

I know a lot of Kentucky fans who are really good guys and love the game as much as I do, but lets be real... they don't know jack about recruiting outside of the Top 40 or so. Pointing to a Rupp Rafters thread about the nuances of recruiting philosophy is one of the more ludicrous things I've seen here in years, but maybe that's just me.

 

[ufo33]

That goofy Kentucky thread had me shaking my head. Archie's recruiting/roster building and overall philosophy are great imo... not just good. Every fan has their own preferences though, so reasonable people can still hate the recruiting etc. and think I'm the goofy one. It's just a bit aggravating when people suggest that Galloway is a reach because he's a 3 Star on Rivals... end of story... don't look at any other rankings or consider any other factors. Just watch some clips! Dude looks like a baller to me

Why ignore the fact that Rivals scouts themselves have said that they muffed the Galloway ranking and that he'll take a major jump in the next update. Why ignore the fact that prior to the injury season he was Top 75 in the 247 composite. Why ignore the fact that the kid has offers from Izzo, Brey and Painter.

I know a lot of Kentucky fans who are really good guys and love the game as much as I do, but lets be real... they don't know jack about recruiting outside of the Top 40 or so. Pointing to a Rupp Rafters thread about the nuances of recruiting philosophy is one of the more ludicrous things I've seen here in years, but maybe that's just me.

Trey Galloway is under-rated

 

[.Gerdis]

Thanks for putting this together, Pater.

When we signed Coach Miller, what I hoped to see was a coach that could do more with less. I wasn’t concerned about recruiting at all. Often times we spend so much time looking at the players that we forget about the coach. Or, we assume that talent exists in a vacuum. For example, I have no doubt, and this is merely MY opinion, Bo Ryan makes the NCAA tournament with Coach Creans year 3 roster, and each successive Indiana roster.

It’s so frustrating.

Listen, the B10 hasn’t won an NCAA title in almost 20 years. And here we are, a conference afterthought that can’t even seem to string together a trio of NCAA APPEARANCES.

(It’s here that I apologize for going off into multiple ranting tangents).

Did, I mention that it’s so frustrating?

Every season during the Crean era I discounted my expectations for coaching. I am sick of doing that. Slap me in the face, but why can’t we be like Purdue? Painter seems to have built a resume that is as good as Keady’s. And he seems to be doing more with less. He’s a damn good coach.

I hope coach miller can show that he can do more with less. He has the roster for us to have a very, very good season. When I look at your above summary, it’s clear that we have the talent. It’s clear that the roster is being constructed in a thoughtful manner. This isn’t Tom Crean putting together a team like I draft my fantasy football team (no thoughts towards the next season, unlimited waiver moves, stash high upside RBs I get on the cheap). No, he seems to be recruiting just fine.

But, coaching?

Can we honestly say that our team last year seemed to be better than the sum of its parts? Did it seem like Romeo (an excellent player, who had a great season for a freshman), was being coached? Too much standing around. Not enough offensive movement without the ball. It just didn’t seem like our players were being put into a position to mask their weaknesses and accentuate their strengths.

I hope this season is much different.

My patience is running out.....and all that ends up remaining is lowered expectations and higher apathy.

We have The talent. Wouldn’t it be nice to finally start putting a premium on our expectations each year based on our coach? That’s what I hoped for with miller. It’s time.

 

[TommyCracker]

That goofy Kentucky thread had me shaking my head. Archie's recruiting/roster building and overall philosophy are great imo... not just good. Every fan has their own preferences though, so reasonable people can still hate the recruiting etc. and think I'm the goofy one. It's just a bit aggravating when people suggest that Galloway is a reach because he's a 3 Star on Rivals... end of story... don't look at any other rankings or consider any other factors. Just watch some clips! Dude looks like a baller to me

Why ignore the fact that Rivals scouts themselves have said that they muffed the Galloway ranking and that he'll take a major jump in the next update. Why ignore the fact that prior to the injury season he was Top 75 in the 247 composite. Why ignore the fact that the kid has offers from Izzo, Brey and Painter.

I know a lot of Kentucky fans who are really good guys and love the game as much as I do, but lets be real... they don't know jack about recruiting outside of the Top 40 or so. Pointing to a Rupp Rafters thread about the nuances of recruiting philosophy is one of the more ludicrous things I've seen here in years, but maybe that's just me.

I agree wholeheartedly and went from like to love Galloway after his past summer with Indy Elite that he led statistically and emotionally to a great summer season (a team that features several high major prospects and I believe won the national adidas guantlet tournament to end the season).

When you watch his clips he's balling. He shot over 60% from the field and over 40% from three in 17 games this summer.

Also if you watch he finished well in traffic and was extremely impressive using both hands.

Hell one of the beefs on Romeo was that he was so right handed dominant. Galloway is strong with both.

I expect him to jump into that 50-80 four star range, especially if the gooroos consider his broken wrist last HS season.

 

[snarlcakes]

That goofy Kentucky thread had me shaking my head. Archie's recruiting/roster building and overall philosophy are great imo... not just good. Every fan has their own preferences though, so reasonable people can still hate the recruiting etc. and think I'm the goofy one. It's just a bit aggravating when people suggest that Galloway is a reach because he's a 3 Star on Rivals... end of story... don't look at any other rankings or consider any other factors. Just watch some clips! Dude looks like a baller to me

Why ignore the fact that Rivals scouts themselves have said that they muffed the Galloway ranking and that he'll take a major jump in the next update. Why ignore the fact that prior to the injury season he was Top 75 in the 247 composite. Why ignore the fact that the kid has offers from Izzo, Brey and Painter.

I know a lot of Kentucky fans who are really good guys and love the game as much as I do, but lets be real... they don't know jack about recruiting outside of the Top 40 or so. Pointing to a Rupp Rafters thread about the nuances of recruiting philosophy is one of the more ludicrous things I've seen here in years, but maybe that's just me.

I don’t put much stock in anyone’s opinions on the lower ranked recruits. Each year I read about how good so and so is going to be and a lot of the time they don’t live up to the expectations. Then posters start dogging them for not living up to the predictions. Two examples from last year are Forrester and Anderson. I would prefer to let it play out.

If Galloway is as good as you say he is, why didn’t Archie offer right away? He was in his backyard and still held off on offering until May. That’s my biggest concern with Galloway (and Leal).

 

[Paterfamilias]

Thanks for putting this together, Pater.

When we signed Coach Miller, what I hoped to see was a coach that could do more with less. I wasn’t concerned about recruiting at all. Often times we spend so much time looking at the players that we forget about the coach. Or, we assume that talent exists in a vacuum. For example, I have no doubt, and this is merely MY opinion, Bo Ryan makes the NCAA tournament with Coach Creans year 3 roster, and each successive Indiana roster.

It’s so frustrating.

Listen, the B10 hasn’t won an NCAA title in almost 20 years. And here we are, a conference afterthought that can’t even seem to string together a trio of NCAA APPEARANCES.

(It’s here that I apologize for going off into multiple ranting tangents).

Did, I mention that it’s so frustrating?

Every season during the Crean era I discounted my expectations for coaching. I am sick of doing that. Slap me in the face, but why can’t we be like Purdue? Painter seems to have built a resume that is as good as Keady’s. And he seems to be doing more with less. He’s a damn good coach.

I hope coach miller can show that he can do more with less. He has the roster for us to have a very, very good season. When I look at your above summary, it’s clear that we have the talent. It’s clear that the roster is being constructed in a thoughtful manner. This isn’t Tom Crean putting together a team like I draft my fantasy football team (no thoughts towards the next season, unlimited waiver moves, stash high upside RBs I get on the cheap). No, he seems to be recruiting just fine.

But, coaching?

Can we honestly say that our team last year seemed to be better than the sum of its parts? Did it seem like Romeo (an excellent player, who had a great season for a freshman), was being coached? Too much standing around. Not enough offensive movement without the ball. It just didn’t seem like our players were being put into a position to mask their weaknesses and accentuate their strengths.

I hope this season is much different.

My patience is running out.....and all that ends up remaining is lowered expectations and higher apathy.

We have The talent. Wouldn’t it be nice to finally start putting a premium on our expectations each year based on our coach? That’s what I hoped for with miller. It’s time.

Always love your post and agree 100%. Love the philosophy, but it's time to win!

 

[Paterfamilias]

I don’t put much stock in anyone’s opinions on the lower ranked recruits. Each year I read about how good so and so is going to be and a lot of the time they don’t live up to the expectations. Then posters start dogging them for not living up to these made up standards. Two examples from last year are Forrester and Anderson. I would prefer to let it play out.

If Galloway is as good as you say he is, why didn’t Archie offer right away? He was in his backyard and still held off on offering until May. That’s my biggest concern with Galloway (and Leal).

I hear ya man! I really liked Forrester too (and maybe he'll still develop like I thought), so I'm no great shakes at scouting. I'm just saying there's much more to his story than his current Rivals rating. When people don't like a recruit they hang their hat on the lowest rating they can find... and vice versa. It would be nice to see people try to be a little bit more thorough, before downplaying an IU recruit on his commitment day.

 

[darkhawk returns]

Can you show me a Bo Ryan roster or Matt Painter roster that compares to what Archie took over? Ryan took over a Wisconsin program with a ready made roster. Dick Bennett was forced out because they had their successor for him picked not because he was a bad coach (see his kids). Even Knight took over a program with players he knew were going to be here left by an already solid program. This is the closest thing to a real Big Ten roster Archie will have had (more than one healthy post player, mostly players he actually recruited, more than one possible PG, a capable starting PG who isn't a freshman....the only thing left is shooters/scorers, which remains to be seen). Tommy liked wingy too much to care about building a roster. I agree I like coaches who "do more with less", but that comes from having players capable of playing their roles at every position. Starting 6'7 and 6'8 down low, not to mention freshmen in both key guard spots, does not really allow one to do that. Its revisionist history to make any claim about Davis filling that role, as he wasn't healthy even at the end of the season. To complicate the matter of our, by far, best post player wearing himself out and picking up fouls defending guys he gave up 4+ inches and 30+lbs to every night, nobody could hit wide open jump shots frequently enough to bring the defense out and create space.

To sum it up: You are comparing apples to oranges, unless you want to give examples and compare situations/rosters. You can't beat complete teams with so many playing out of position. The team was picked to finish in the bottom 8 of the B10 by every reputable service for good reasons. Stop with revisionist history bs...

Thanks for putting this together, Pater.

When we signed Coach Miller, what I hoped to see was a coach that could do more with less. I wasn’t concerned about recruiting at all. Often times we spend so much time looking at the players that we forget about the coach. Or, we assume that talent exists in a vacuum. For example, I have no doubt, and this is merely MY opinion, Bo Ryan makes the NCAA tournament with Coach Creans year 3 roster, and each successive Indiana roster.

It’s so frustrating.

Listen, the B10 hasn’t won an NCAA title in almost 20 years. And here we are, a conference afterthought that can’t even seem to string together a trio of NCAA APPEARANCES.

(It’s here that I apologize for going off into multiple ranting tangents).

Did, I mention that it’s so frustrating?

Every season during the Crean era I discounted my expectations for coaching. I am sick of doing that. Slap me in the face, but why can’t we be like Purdue? Painter seems to have built a resume that is as good as Keady’s. And he seems to be doing more with less. He’s a damn good coach.

I hope coach miller can show that he can do more with less. He has the roster for us to have a very, very good season. When I look at your above summary, it’s clear that we have the talent. It’s clear that the roster is being constructed in a thoughtful manner. This isn’t Tom Crean putting together a team like I draft my fantasy football team (no thoughts towards the next season, unlimited waiver moves, stash high upside RBs I get on the cheap). No, he seems to be recruiting just fine.

But, coaching?

Can we honestly say that our team last year seemed to be better than the sum of its parts? Did it seem like Romeo (an excellent player, who had a great season for a freshman), was being coached? Too much standing around. Not enough offensive movement without the ball. It just didn’t seem like our players were being put into a position to mask their weaknesses and accentuate their strengths.

I hope this season is much different.

My patience is running out.....and all that ends up remaining is lowered expectations and higher apathy.

We have The talent. Wouldn’t it be nice to finally start putting a premium on our expectations each year based on our coach? That’s what I hoped for with miller. It’s time.

 

[darkhawk returns]

That said, I totally agree we need to see more masking of weaknesses and using each players strengths. However, there are only so many weaknesses you can mask (especially when one of those weaknesses is giving up so much size on the inside....again without including the freshman/freshman/sophomore backcourt). High expectations is one thing. Expecting miracles is something totally different.

Thanks for putting this together, Pater.

When we signed Coach Miller, what I hoped to see was a coach that could do more with less. I wasn’t concerned about recruiting at all. Often times we spend so much time looking at the players that we forget about the coach. Or, we assume that talent exists in a vacuum. For example, I have no doubt, and this is merely MY opinion, Bo Ryan makes the NCAA tournament with Coach Creans year 3 roster, and each successive Indiana roster.

It’s so frustrating.

Listen, the B10 hasn’t won an NCAA title in almost 20 years. And here we are, a conference afterthought that can’t even seem to string together a trio of NCAA APPEARANCES.

(It’s here that I apologize for going off into multiple ranting tangents).

Did, I mention that it’s so frustrating?

Every season during the Crean era I discounted my expectations for coaching. I am sick of doing that. Slap me in the face, but why can’t we be like Purdue? Painter seems to have built a resume that is as good as Keady’s. And he seems to be doing more with less. He’s a damn good coach.

I hope coach miller can show that he can do more with less. He has the roster for us to have a very, very good season. When I look at your above summary, it’s clear that we have the talent. It’s clear that the roster is being constructed in a thoughtful manner. This isn’t Tom Crean putting together a team like I draft my fantasy football team (no thoughts towards the next season, unlimited waiver moves, stash high upside RBs I get on the cheap). No, he seems to be recruiting just fine.

But, coaching?

Can we honestly say that our team last year seemed to be better than the sum of its parts? Did it seem like Romeo (an excellent player, who had a great season for a freshman), was being coached? Too much standing around. Not enough offensive movement without the ball. It just didn’t seem like our players were being put into a position to mask their weaknesses and accentuate their strengths.

I hope this season is much different.

My patience is running out.....and all that ends up remaining is lowered expectations and higher apathy.

We have The talent. Wouldn’t it be nice to finally start putting a premium on our expectations each year based on our coach? That’s what I hoped for with miller. It’s time.

 

[fpeaugh]

That goofy Kentucky thread had me shaking my head. Archie's recruiting/roster building and overall philosophy are great imo... not just good. Every fan has their own preferences though, so reasonable people can still hate the recruiting etc. and think I'm the goofy one. It's just a bit aggravating when people suggest that Galloway is a reach because he's a 3 Star on Rivals... end of story... don't look at any other rankings or consider any other factors. Just watch some clips! Dude looks like a baller to me

Why ignore the fact that Rivals scouts themselves have said that they muffed the Galloway ranking and that he'll take a major jump in the next update. Why ignore the fact that prior to the injury season he was Top 75 in the 247 composite. Why ignore the fact that the kid has offers from Izzo, Brey and Painter.

I know a lot of Kentucky fans who are really good guys and love the game as much as I do, but lets be real... they don't know jack about recruiting outside of the Top 40 or so. Pointing to a Rupp Rafters thread about the nuances of recruiting philosophy is one of the more ludicrous things I've seen here in years, but maybe that's just me.

Do you really think people on here know any more (or less) than UK fans?

 

[IndyResident16]

I don’t put much stock in anyone’s opinions on the lower ranked recruits. Each year I read about how good so and so is going to be and a lot of the time they don’t live up to the expectations. Then posters start dogging them for not living up to the predictions. Two examples from last year are Forrester and Anderson. I would prefer to let it play out.

If Galloway is as good as you say he is, why didn’t Archie offer right away? He was in his backyard and still held off on offering until May. That’s my biggest concern with Galloway (and Leal).

Oh get over yourself. I’ll take someone’s opinion who has actually watched somebody play vs the morons who simply dismiss a player because Rivals or 247 says he’s #101 instead of #99 or a 4* vs a 3*. Recruiting ain’t a science. Look at the number of non top 100 recruits or 3*/unranked players who dominate the NBA.

There’s 5-10 freshman in any given year who clearly superior to everyone in their class and capable of being the best player on their collegiate team. Then there’s another 20-30 ahead of the rest good enough to start or contribute immediately. After that, it’s an absolute crapshoot. You can’t tell the difference between somebody ranked 85th and somebody ranked 120th. The dumb perception that the top 100 is some kind of magical pedestal is a complete farce. Give me a 3*, top 150 guy who has bought in and is an upperclassman over a 4* freshman kid ranked 75th or whatever any day of the week. Unless you’re Duke or Kentucky who loses 5-6 guys to the draft each year and your livelihood depends on signing the best possible talent each year, give me the older, more experienced group of guys who have all bought in, ANY.DAMN.DAY.OF.THE.WEEK

 

[Wall2Boogie]

That goofy Kentucky thread had me shaking my head. Archie's recruiting/roster building and overall philosophy are great imo... not just good. Every fan has their own preferences though, so reasonable people can still hate the recruiting etc. and think I'm the goofy one. It's just a bit aggravating when people suggest that Galloway is a reach because he's a 3 Star on Rivals... end of story... don't look at any other rankings or consider any other factors. Just watch some clips! Dude looks like a baller to me

Why ignore the fact that Rivals scouts themselves have said that they muffed the Galloway ranking and that he'll take a major jump in the next update. Why ignore the fact that prior to the injury season he was Top 75 in the 247 composite. Why ignore the fact that the kid has offers from Izzo, Brey and Painter.

I know a lot of Kentucky fans who are really good guys and love the game as much as I do, but lets be real... they don't know jack about recruiting outside of the Top 40 or so. Pointing to a Rupp Rafters thread about the nuances of recruiting philosophy is one of the more ludicrous things I've seen here in years, but maybe that's just me.

I know I’m one of the good ky fans you are referring to. I still stand by my comment that Archie will get it done, and build Indiana to where it once was

 

[snarlcakes]

Oh get over yourself. I’ll take someone’s opinion who has actually watched somebody play vs the morons who simply dismiss a player because Rivals or 247 says he’s #101 instead of #99 or a 4* vs a 3*. Recruiting ain’t a science. Look at the number of non top 100 recruits or 3*/unranked players who dominate the NBA.

There’s 5-10 freshman in any given year who clearly superior to everyone in their class and capable of being the best player on their collegiate team. Then there’s another 20-30 ahead of the rest good enough to start or contribute immediately. After that, it’s an absolute crapshoot. You can’t tell the difference between somebody ranked 85th and somebody ranked 120th. The dumb perception that the top 100 is some kind of magical pedestal is a complete farce. Give me a 3*, top 150 guy who has bought in and is an upperclassman over a 4* freshman kid ranked 75th or whatever any day of the week. Unless you’re Duke or Kentucky who loses 5-6 guys to the draft each year and your livelihood depends on signing the best possible talent each year, give me the older, more experienced group of guys who have all bought in, ANY.DAMN.DAY.OF.THE.WEEK

I definitely don't care about your opinion. Troll someone else.

 

[IndyResident16]

I definitely don't care about your opinion. Troll someone else.

Good call. You’re not versed enough to have this conversation anyway.

 

[Paterfamilias]

Do you really think people on here know any more (or less) than UK fans?

Maybe not, but I've had the pleasure of knowing some pretty hard core Cat fans, and I'm telling you that they take pride in the fact that they don't follow recruiting much outside of the McD's AA zone. It's a cocky brand of self imposed ignorance. Maybe most fans are like that everywhere, but I always thought that hoops fans from Indiana (not necessarily IU) had a lot more interest in the game on a national level than UK fans.

 

[kkott]

Maybe not, but I've had the pleasure of knowing some pretty hard core Cat fans, and I'm telling you that they take pride in the fact that they don't follow recruiting much outside of the McD's AA zone. It's a cocky brand of self imposed ignorance. Maybe most fans are like that everywhere, but I always thought that hoops fans from Indiana (not necessarily IU) had a lot more interest in the game on a national level than UK fans.

it's kind of amazing to me that IU even gets into UK fan's thoughts, because they've been so much better than us. I think the Wat shot was as hurtful to them as it was joyous for us. So unexpected as they seemed to have the game in the bag and then they were gutted on national TV. I have to question if it's not as simple as that. Other than that moment, we haven't felt nationally relevant since 2002 and even that was a flash in the pan season.

 

[kkott]

Thanks for putting this together, Pater.

When we signed Coach Miller, what I hoped to see was a coach that could do more with less. I wasn’t concerned about recruiting at all. Often times we spend so much time looking at the players that we forget about the coach. Or, we assume that talent exists in a vacuum. For example, I have no doubt, and this is merely MY opinion, Bo Ryan makes the NCAA tournament with Coach Creans year 3 roster, and each successive Indiana roster.

It’s so frustrating.

Listen, the B10 hasn’t won an NCAA title in almost 20 years. And here we are, a conference afterthought that can’t even seem to string together a trio of NCAA APPEARANCES.

(It’s here that I apologize for going off into multiple ranting tangents).

Did, I mention that it’s so frustrating?

Every season during the Crean era I discounted my expectations for coaching. I am sick of doing that. Slap me in the face, but why can’t we be like Purdue? Painter seems to have built a resume that is as good as Keady’s. And he seems to be doing more with less. He’s a damn good coach.

I hope coach miller can show that he can do more with less. He has the roster for us to have a very, very good season. When I look at your above summary, it’s clear that we have the talent. It’s clear that the roster is being constructed in a thoughtful manner. This isn’t Tom Crean putting together a team like I draft my fantasy football team (no thoughts towards the next season, unlimited waiver moves, stash high upside RBs I get on the cheap). No, he seems to be recruiting just fine.

But, coaching?

Can we honestly say that our team last year seemed to be better than the sum of its parts? Did it seem like Romeo (an excellent player, who had a great season for a freshman), was being coached? Too much standing around. Not enough offensive movement without the ball. It just didn’t seem like our players were being put into a position to mask their weaknesses and accentuate their strengths.

I hope this season is much different.

My patience is running out.....and all that ends up remaining is lowered expectations and higher apathy.

We have The talent. Wouldn’t it be nice to finally start putting a premium on our expectations each year based on our coach? That’s what I hoped for with miller. It’s time.

The team last year was 2 different teams in one season: pre-B10 and post B10. Pre-B10 we were solid and had some nice wins. Post B-10 we were putrid. I still do think there was some internal issue with the team that went beyond coaching... some internal issue. That NB game, not 1 IU player looked like they were ready or wanted to play and it was the same for several games thereafter.

 

[fpeaugh]

Maybe not, but I've had the pleasure of knowing some pretty hard core Cat fans, and I'm telling you that they take pride in the fact that they don't follow recruiting much outside of the McD's AA zone. It's a cocky brand of self imposed ignorance. Maybe most fans are like that everywhere, but I always thought that hoops fans from Indiana (not necessarily IU) had a lot more interest in the game on a national level than UK fans.

I just disagree. I think every fanbase thinks this. In reality I don’t think IU fans know any more (or less) on average than UK fans, UNC fans, or South Dakota State fans.

 

[h20pls]

Thanks for putting this together, Pater.

Can we honestly say that our team last year seemed to be better than the sum of its parts? Did it seem like Romeo (an excellent player, who had a great season for a freshman), was being coached? Too much standing around. Not enough offensive movement without the ball. It just didn’t seem like our players were being put into a position to mask their weaknesses and accentuate their strengths.

I hope this season is much different.

My patience is running out.....and all that ends up remaining is lowered expectations and higher apathy.

We have The talent. Wouldn’t it be nice to finally start putting a premium on our expectations each year based on our coach? That’s what I hoped for with miller. It’s time.

This post should be it's own...I agree wholeheartedly.

 

[iubud]

Oh get over yourself. I’ll take someone’s opinion who has actually watched somebody play vs the morons who simply dismiss a player because Rivals or 247 says he’s #101 instead of #99 or a 4* vs a 3*. Recruiting ain’t a science. Look at the number of non top 100 recruits or 3*/unranked players who dominate the NBA.

There’s 5-10 freshman in any given year who clearly superior to everyone in their class and capable of being the best player on their collegiate team. Then there’s another 20-30 ahead of the rest good enough to start or contribute immediately. After that, it’s an absolute crapshoot. You can’t tell the difference between somebody ranked 85th and somebody ranked 120th. The dumb perception that the top 100 is some kind of magical pedestal is a complete farce. Give me a 3*, top 150 guy who has bought in and is an upperclassman over a 4* freshman kid ranked 75th or whatever any day of the week. Unless you’re Duke or Kentucky who loses 5-6 guys to the draft each year and your livelihood depends on signing the best possible talent each year, give me the older, more experienced group of guys who have all bought in, ANY.DAMN.DAY.OF.THE.WEEK

I'm sure the really good recruiters do more than look at rankings, measure vertical leap and how well they can dunk, dribble, and shoot. There is an element of grit and determination that all winners have that make them rise above the others.

Crean seemed fascinated by the physical abilities of a player. He seemed to think he could take a kid with awesome athletic ability and mold them into a basketball player. He recruited Tijan Jobe that couldn't score in juco but looked like he should dominate. Hanner was athletic and had all the physical traits you would want in a basketball player. He was successful with Oladipo because the kid had the drive and the work ethic to be a winner.

Archie talks about toughness and being a winner. I can't see him seriously recruiting Jobe, Priller, or April. I imagine the conversations he has with the players count a great deal more towards the eventual scholarship offer than Crean might have done. It might be why he takes time offering some kids

 

[IndyResident16]

I'm sure the really good recruiters do more than look at rankings, measure vertical leap and how well they can dunk, dribble, and shoot. There is an element of grit and determination that all winners have that make them rise above the others.

Crean seemed fascinated by the physical abilities of a player. He seemed to think he could take a kid with awesome athletic ability and mold them into a basketball player. He recruited Tijan Jobe that couldn't score in juco but looked like he should dominate. Hanner was athletic and had all the physical traits you would want in a basketball player. He was successful with Oladipo because the kid had the drive and the work ethic to be a winner.

Archie talks about toughness and being a winner. I can't see him seriously recruiting Jobe, Priller, or April. I imagine the conversations he has with the players count a great deal more towards the eventual scholarship offer than Crean might have done. It might be why he takes time offering some kids

I'm talking about certain posters on here who simply dismiss players (Galloway) because of his ranking over the opinions of people who have actually seen him play, especially when certain sites such as Rivals have come out and said they severely underrated a player such as Galloway.

 

[ufo33]

I'm sure the really good recruiters do more than look at rankings, measure vertical leap and how well they can dunk, dribble, and shoot. There is an element of grit and determination that all winners have that make them rise above the others.

Crean seemed fascinated by the physical abilities of a player. He seemed to think he could take a kid with awesome athletic ability and mold them into a basketball player. He recruited Tijan Jobe that couldn't score in juco but looked like he should dominate. Hanner was athletic and had all the physical traits you would want in a basketball player. He was successful with Oladipo because the kid had the drive and the work ethic to be a winner.

Archie talks about toughness and being a winner. I can't see him seriously recruiting Jobe, Priller, or April. I imagine the conversations he has with the players count a great deal more towards the eventual scholarship offer than Crean might have done. It might be why he takes time offering some kids

Perea and Smith could leap through the roof but could not shoot. Crean liked raw talent. Sometimes the raw talent developed such as Oladipo, OG. But sometimes it did not.

 

[Al Bino]

I just disagree. I think every fanbase thinks this. In reality I don’t think IU fans know any more (or less) on average than UK fans, UNC fans, or South Dakota State fans.

Did you even read his post?

"but I always thought that hoops fans from Indiana (not necessarily IU) had a lot more interest in the game on a national level than UK fans."

I put the relevant part in bold and underlined for the reading impaired.

 

[fpeaugh]

Did you even read his post?

"but I always thought that hoops fans from Indiana (not necessarily IU) had a lot more interest in the game on a national level than UK fans."

I put the relevant part in bold and underlined for the reading impaired.

Ok then genius...same principle...I don’t think human beings located in Indiana boundaries have any more or less basketball knowledge (on average) than those domiciled in Kansas, New Mexico, or Massachusetts.

 

[ufo33]

Ok then genius...same principle...I don’t think human beings located in Indiana boundaries have any more or less basketball knowledge (on average) than those domiciled in Kansas, New Mexico, or Massachusetts.

I disagree.

 

[IndyResident16]

Ok then genius...same principle...I don’t think human beings located in Indiana boundaries have any more or less basketball knowledge (on average) than those domiciled in Kansas, New Mexico, or Massachusetts.

Disagree x100. Does the average Indiana resident have the same level of knowledge of hockey that some does living in Ontario? I'm the sure the average person living in New Mexico knows more about green chilli's than the average person living in Indiana. It's all about culture and what people are indoctrinated into.

 

[ufo33]

Disagree x100. Does the average Indiana resident have the same level of knowledge of hockey that some does living in Ontario? I'm the sure the average person living in New Mexico knows more about green chilli's than the average person living in Indiana. It's all about culture and what people are indoctrinated into.

I completely agree.

 

[Hatchets7times]

Phinisee will end up considerably under rated..

 

[IUPaterade724]

Do you really think people on here know any more (or less) than UK fans?

Yes

 

[choptalk]

I'll get blasted for this but here goes. In the past i think the basketball IQ of state kids was higher. Honestly since IU's national prominence hasn't been as pronounced the last few years I'm wondering if it hasn't evened out with the rest of the country. Today's players were not born when IU was at it's peak. Kids grew up with a desire to play for IU and only IU. I think that has changed a little. Look at Steve Alford. He grew up wanting to be Hoosier and his Basketball IQ was through the roof. There are many other examples. Also I think that AAU ball has hurt in that area, probably even more.

 

[cryano]

Ok then genius...same principle...I don’t think human beings located in Indiana boundaries have any more or less basketball knowledge (on average) than those domiciled in Kansas, New Mexico, or Massachusetts.

The rules are the same in each state.

That could be a good thread title/topic for the offseason...

“People born or living in the State of ______ inherently know more than anyone else in the world about ______.”

 

[PranksterMary]

I'm sure the really good recruiters do more than look at rankings, measure vertical leap and how well they can dunk, dribble, and shoot. There is an element of grit and determination that all winners have that make them rise above the others.

Crean seemed fascinated by the physical abilities of a player. He seemed to think he could take a kid with awesome athletic ability and mold them into a basketball player. He recruited Tijan Jobe that couldn't score in juco but looked like he should dominate. Hanner was athletic and had all the physical traits you would want in a basketball player. He was successful with Oladipo because the kid had the drive and the work ethic to be a winner.

Archie talks about toughness and being a winner. I can't see him seriously recruiting Jobe, Priller, or April. I imagine the conversations he has with the players count a great deal more towards the eventual scholarship offer than Crean might have done. It might be why he takes time offering some kids

Really good recruiters pay absolutely no attention to the rankings. They’re primarily for fans with a casual knowledge of players and recruiting.

 

[PranksterMary]

Yes

Why?

 

[ufo33]

The rules are the same in each state.

That could be a good thread title/topic for the offseason...

“People born or living in the State of ______ inherently know more than anyone else in the world about ______.”

Example: I know nothing about Hockey, I grew up in Indiana.
A guy that grows up in Minnesota has a much better chance of playing and knowing a lot about the game of Hockey for example.

 

[cryano]

Example: I know nothing about Hockey, I grew up in Indiana.
A guy that grows up in Minnesota has a much better chance of playing and knowing a lot about the game of Hockey for example.

simple-minded and small world-view...

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

I just disagree. I think every fanbase thinks this. In reality I don’t think IU fans know any more (or less) on average than UK fans, UNC fans, or South Dakota State fans.

Well, if you are an IU fan (which you aren't), you have certainly lowered our class average. So, in a way, you could be right. Throw in cryin'ho and Skankster, and our overall basketball IQ is completely in the toilet.

 

[Al Bino]

simple-minded and small world-view...

I love it when people make blanket statements with no in depth reasons for said statement.

Enlighten us on why his post is "simple-minded and small world view"?

I know I sure as hell wasn't raised with ice hockey.