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A definition of cancel culture

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TMFT said:
I certainly agree with that.

I also think one of the most concerning things happening is on college campuses. On one side you've had people going from protesting campus speakers to trying to dis-invite campus speakers. When Obama was president I recall him making a statement at one time or another saying that this was not what college is supposed to be about. On the other side, there are moves to cancel whole areas of scholarship from all schools because they disagree with the real or perceived worldview associated with it.
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I don't think state's should (or can) ban certain academic subjects from university campuses and DeSantis goes too far if he tries that.

But I think universities would be better served by eliminating some of the stupid stuff that passes for "scholarship" in some of these departments in the humanities. I consider the level of thinking and scholarship behind some of the crtical-theory influenced areas on par with Flat Earth theory and Creationism in science. A lot of academics believe this, too, but are too scared to say or do anything and I don't think that's going to change.
 
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larsIU said:
White liberal guilt is a real and powerful thing. Misguided? Sometimes, maybe most times. I don't know. So we while liberals have done some kind of service to the identity politics we see today obviously. We can't seem to find a gropu we won't champion, though I think we're getting pretty close to having covered 99% of the groups out there which have been historically disadvantaged.

Furries are probably next. Or the body modifiers. who knows.

And while I can note the thinness of the scholarship involved here, there was a part of the article re: Ms. Hannah-Jones which did hit me right in the feelz and forced me to ponder my own biases.



I think she has a point about white liberal's "curated diversity".
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I like that she dismissed "diversity." Good for her. It is a useless word.

But I'm not sure I understand her complaint--those 30% of white kids in the NYC schools group together in a neighborhoods, I guess? So what? Is she arguing that poor black NYC students would be better off with more white kids in their schools? Why?
 
BradStevens said:
DeBoer floats this definition and I think it fits with how most people think of the term (with the corollary that the wrongdoers should often suffer permanently):

“a culture where social norms are enforced with repeated and vociferous public shaming”

open.substack.com

Do You Want Cancel Culture to Exist?

So apparently Louis CK played Madison Square Garden again. People had a lot of thoughts to share about it. I post this tweet simply as an example of a broad genre. I see this thought expressed fairly often, and I think the essential logic is a little weird. The argument is that, because someone...
open.substack.com open.substack.com
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I would edit that to say "where rotating social norms are selectively enforced..."
 
TMFT said:
the biggest problem with the term “cancel culture” is that it’s become too often used.

Neither side has any high ground on the issue. There were no shortage of conservative boycotts and movements when I was growing up. My church wouldn’t watch the Super Bowl halftime show after ZZ Top because it was too risqué. Disney boycotts in the 90s about being too gay friendly. Dixie Chicks CDs being smashed. Beatles records being burned. Keurig machines being destroyed. Notably, liberals are trying to deplatform or boycott any number of people that offend them these days.

If we go back farther in time, sit ins and the Montgomery Bus Boycott had an effect of hurting the financial situation of the targets. Hell, “buy local” campaigns have an effect of “hurting” big business because of their predation on local business.

It’s all really two sides of the same coin. Every “cancel” to one person is a righteous use by another to vote with their wallet to that person.

I think cancel culture has gone too far. I often think of the kid at U of Iowa who got a bunch of money Venmoed to him because of a sign on Gameday, gave it to the children’s hospital, got famous, then got burned hard by a reporter. Trying too hard to tear down and cancel people is bad for the country.
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This
 
BradStevens said:
I like that she dismissed "diversity." Good for her. It is a useless word.

But I'm not sure I understand her complaint--those 30% of white kids in the NYC schools group together in a neighborhoods, I guess? So what? Is she arguing that poor black NYC students would be better off with more white kids in their schools? Why?
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When there is segregation, I'm guessing the white kids were at a wealthier school and able to pay/attract the better teacher. The end result being the good/more accomplished teachers were at their school and not the school with the poor black students.

I think the other point was made that both white and black kids benefit from being around kids with different backgrounds than themselves and are better off for it.
 
BradStevens said:
I like that she dismissed "diversity." Good for her. It is a useless word.

But I'm not sure I understand her complaint--those 30% of white kids in the NYC schools group together in a neighborhoods, I guess? So what? Is she arguing that poor black NYC students would be better off with more white kids in their schools? Why?
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I think she just sees white schools as being, generally, better. I think she's right. I'm not certain her reasoning is always sound.

But "curated diversity" smacks the white liberal guilt right in the face. I think she is right about that. To your point, I'm not sure how to fix that.

I suspect we're in a transitional period as humans where we've done identified everybody on the planet and now we're learning to live with one another. To be fair, historically (consider Homo Sapiens vs. Neanderthals) we're doing this better than we used to. But it still isn't perfect by a long shot.
 
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larsIU said:
I think she just sees white schools as being, generally, better. I think she's right. I'm not certain her reasoning is always sound.

But "curated diversity" smacks the white liberal guilt right in the face. I think she is right about that. To your point, I'm not sure how to fix that.

I suspect we're in a transitional period as humans where we've done identified everybody on the planet and now we're learning to live with one another. To be fair, historically (consider Homo Sapiens vs. Neanderthals) we're doing this better than we used to. But it still isn't perfect by a long shot.
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One of my biggest frustrations with the Meridian-Kessler parents here in Indy is the promotion of diversity that I think is more curated than legitimate. Their hearts are in the right place but it doesn't ring true to me in practice.

Like, they get into the curated diverse school, as that author puts it, and feel good about it. It's still super skewed relative to total IPS enrollment. So they want to bring more kids of color into the school, once their kids are already locked in of course. My stock response to the line of thinking of those parents is "how many of you are sending your kids to Tech once they graduate Middle School?" Because if they're sending them to one of the local Private Schools for HS or up to North Central, they're doing a lot more "talk about it" than "be about it."
 
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Question for the Coolerites.

Isn't blaming a group or person of using cancel culture an example of cancel culture ?
 
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hoot1 said:
Question for the Coolerites.

Isn't blaming a group or person of using cancel culture an example of cancel culture ?
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If people agree with something being "cancelled" then it is not "cancel culture"

Cancel culture and woke are just new buzzwords used to focus people's ire. It saves time when they want their viewers/listeners fired up about something. It's very efficient.
 
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BradStevens said:
I don't think state's should (or can) ban certain academic subjects from university campuses and DeSantis goes too far if he tries that.

But I think universities would be better served by eliminating some of the stupid stuff that passes for "scholarship" in some of these departments in the humanities. I consider the level of thinking and scholarship behind some of the crtical-theory influenced areas on par with Flat Earth theory and Creationism in science. A lot of academics believe this, too, but are too scared to say or do anything and I don't think that's going to change.
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Sort of any interesting deal. It’s a public university in Sarasota where they allege enrollment is down etc full of wokees. I think it’s a dumb version of The New School which is also full of wokees, but smart ones. Kind of the other side of the Claremont schools on the west coast
 
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Bulk VanderHuge said:
Well, stoll did attempt to get someone fired by contacting his employer, so there's that. When asked, he proudly admitted it.
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I didn’t contact any employer so go fk yourself. You overeducated underachieving libs would do well to come to Daviess and do some learnin from eighth grade educated smart folks.

And Mark can go fk himself too.
 
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stollcpa said:
I didn’t contact any employer so go fk yourself. You overeducated underachieving libs would do well to come to Daviess and do some learnin from eighth grade educated smart folks.

And Mark can go fk himself too.
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Ha!! They wouldn't last twenty minutes in Daviesss!!!!. They can raise a stink, not a barn! Paper pushers with soft hands!!!!
 
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stollcpa said:
I didn’t contact any employer so go fk yourself. You overeducated underachieving libs would do well to come to Daviess and do some learnin from eighth grade educated smart folks.

And Mark can go fk himself too.
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popcorn-gif-8.gif
 
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stollcpa said:
I didn’t contact any employer so go fk yourself. You overeducated underachieving libs would do well to come to Daviess and do sone learnin from eight grade educated smart folks.

And Mark can go fk himself too.
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I don't know anything about this story. Employers? Stoll v. UncleMark and it doesn't relate to being a Mod? What in the wide, wide world of sports is going on here?
 
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stollcpa said:
I didn’t contact any employer so go fk yourself. You overeducated underachieving libs would do well to come to Daviess and do sone learnin from eight grade educated smart folks.

And Mark can go fk himself too.
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*some ;)

I think that was something taught in 1st grade. Your English teacher would be most proud.
 
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BradStevens said:
I don't know anything about this story. Employers? Stoll v. UncleMark and it doesn't relate to being a Mod? What in the wide, wide world of sports is going on here?
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Do you remember McM vs. Noodle?

12 round classic one night. Like a drunken brawl where they kiss and make up afterwards.
 
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larsIU said:
Do you remember McM vs. Noodle?

12 round classic one night. Like a drunken brawl where they kiss and make up afterwards.
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Don't think I caught that one, either. I've seen some McM v. IUHickory and Outside Shooter, though.

I hate these continuing spats. Zeke v. Cray and Danc, Goat v. MTIOF. Hell, I've blocked so many people at this point because I got tired of reading people personally insulting each other, I don't see half the posts anymore.

Say what you will about CoH--he takes a lot of personal insults from people but he usually keeps his cool and just posts arguments (some of which I take issue with). I don't think he gets enough credit for that. I don't think the eye-for-an-eye justification that some give for their behavior is very compelling, I guess.
 
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BradStevens said:
Don't think I caught that one, either. I've seen some McM v. IUHickory and Outside Shooter, though.

I hate these continuing spats. Zeke v. Cray and Danc, Goat v. MTIOF. Hell, I've blocked so many people at this point because I got tired of reading people personally insulting each other, I don't see half the posts anymore.

Say what you will about CoH--he takes a lot of personal insults from people but he usually keeps his cool and just posts arguments (some of which I take issue with). I don't think he gets enough credit for that. I don't think the eye-for-an-eye justification that some give for their behavior is very compelling, I guess.
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You have to let it fly sometimes. good for the soul. plus it prevents you from taking it out on your spouse.
 
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hoot1 said:
Question for the Coolerites.

Isn't blaming a group or person of using cancel culture an example of cancel culture ?
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I don't think so. I don't think we are "shaming" them or asking them to be fired or deplatformed.
 
stollcpa said:
I didn’t contact any employer so go fk yourself. You overeducated underachieving libs would do well to come to Daviess and do some learnin from eighth grade educated smart folks.

And Mark can go fk himself too.
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stollcpa said:
I apologized long ago to you. You don’t want to accept it, that’s fine.

I still don’t believe people being paid by an employer should be posting on social media while on the clock without company permission.


@Ohio Guy for your info I am taking a bathroom break from working to post
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You at least threatened, which is still a dick move.

And you don't know shit about where I grew up. Believe me, I lived out where the hoot owls f*** the chickens.
 
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mcmurtry66 said:
Yes i like this definition. There's a cult on the left that this certainly applies to. The notion of social norms as I understand it is that it doesn't have to include everyone; it can be limited to that group. In this case we know what that cult on the left looks and sounds like and that's certainly how they enforce their social norms
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You mean hundreds of 'parent groups' attacking schools and public libraries, trying to get teachers and administrators fired, books removed from shelves, trying to label anything they don't agree with as porn or CRT? You mean like accusing athletes of being un-American for expressing their displeasure with the US justice system? You mean trying to interfere with the validation of elections?

You realize one of these parents group is targeting IU, the Kinsey Institute, calling it perverse and socialistic. Luckily Purple For Parents suck at their 'activism', but they've been going after IU for over 18 months.


It happens on both sides equally.
 
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BradStevens said:
Don't think I caught that one, either. I've seen some McM v. IUHickory and Outside Shooter, though.

I hate these continuing spats. Zeke v. Cray and Danc, Goat v. MTIOF. Hell, I've blocked so many people at this point because I got tired of reading people personally insulting each other, I don't see half the posts anymore.

Say what you will about CoH--he takes a lot of personal insults from people but he usually keeps his cool and just posts arguments (some of which I take issue with). I don't think he gets enough credit for that. I don't think the eye-for-an-eye justification that some give for their behavior is very compelling, I guess.
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Why are you always such a POS?












(jk)
 
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BradStevens said:
Don't think I caught that one, either. I've seen some McM v. IUHickory and Outside Shooter, though.

I hate these continuing spats. Zeke v. Cray and Danc, Goat v. MTIOF. Hell, I've blocked so many people at this point because I got tired of reading people personally insulting each other, I don't see half the posts anymore.

Say what you will about CoH--he takes a lot of personal insults from people but he usually keeps his cool and just posts arguments (some of which I take issue with). I don't think he gets enough credit for that. I don't think the eye-for-an-eye justification that some give for their behavior is very compelling, I guess.
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I've made the cut!!!
 
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TMFT said:
One of my biggest frustrations with the Meridian-Kessler parents here in Indy is the promotion of diversity that I think is more curated than legitimate. Their hearts are in the right place but it doesn't ring true to me in practice.

Like, they get into the curated diverse school, as that author puts it, and feel good about it. It's still super skewed relative to total IPS enrollment. So they want to bring more kids of color into the school, once their kids are already locked in of course. My stock response to the line of thinking of those parents is "how many of you are sending your kids to Tech once they graduate Middle School?" Because if they're sending them to one of the local Private Schools for HS or up to North Central, they're doing a lot more "talk about it" than "be about it."
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I can see both sides of that. When I taught in an urban area, I had many parents ask me about the schools, kids and culture. I honestly thought it was a decent idea to have the kids there through middle school and go someplace else for high school. At least they were exposed and often had friends that weren’t just like them. Stereotypes can often be broken at an early age. But when your school doesn’t provide as many opportunities at the high school and is more dangerous, I’d make a move with my kids. It’s idealistic but not always realistic to sacrifice your child’s best educational opportunities.
 
Bulk VanderHuge said:
I see what you did there, but I doubt he did. :cool:
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Again you can fk off. You can raise a stink but you wouldn’t have any idea where to start to raise a barn. They’d take one look at your candy ass and tell you to go home.

As for Mark, he, Rockfish and others were getting in long discussions during work hours. I made a comment that their employers probably wouldn’t appreciate them stealing time during work hours. One in question was working for the Indiana Department of Revenue which made it particularly bad posting the shit he was posting while being paid by the government.

And again I apologized to Mark for being it up.
 
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stollcpa said:
Again you can fk off. You can raise a stink but you wouldn’t have any idea where to start to raise a barn. They’d take one look at your candy ass and tell you to go home.

As for Mark, he, Rockfish and others were getting in long discussions during work hours. I made a comment that their employers probably wouldn’t appreciate them stealing time during work hours. One in question was working for the Indiana Department of Revenue which made it particularly bad posting the shit he was posting while being paid by the government.

And again I apologized to Mark for being it up.
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Stay in your bubble.
 
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