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Bucket Getter

Bucket Getter

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Apr 9, 2023
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That's actually some incredibly lousy work by Woody and staff of crack recruiters. How the heck can anyone justify that? Even the former ball boy who stands behind the bench clapping (remind you of anyone?) and the gap-toothed goofball who announces Pacers games can't believe this is going to end well.

KenPom 8 to 100 - Lickety Split!
 
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Bucket Getter said:
That's actually some incredibly lousy work by Woody and staff of crack recruiters. How the heck can anyone justify that? Even the former ball boy who stands behind the bench clapping (remind you of anyone?) and the gap-toothed goofball who announces Pacers games can't believe this is going to end well.

KenPom 8 to 100 - Lickety Split!
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woodson needs tons and tons top talent to win big. Sure he scrap out a couple in the sping but the last two summer he got one recruit period. Just not that impressed he is not building a base he needs.
 
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Tammany Hall said:
And Dolson gave Woody a $1M raise this season to take us to #100.

Another example of IU athletic department incompetence.
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No one was predicting, or could have predicted, the drop off that we've seen this year.

I'm going to give Dolson the benefit of the doubt, and think that bonus was an understanding that if he got us back to being an NCAA tournament team in the first couple years, he'd get rewarded for it financially.

Dolson felt the need to bring Matta and Fife in initially, for a reason. He didn't have to take those steps, so it seems obvious, to me, that he had some concerns with Woody on some levels. And I doubt our first two years completely erased those concerns. And even if they did, this season would have to be bringing them back to the front of his mind.
 
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Bucket Getter said:
That's actually some incredibly lousy work by Woody and staff of crack recruiters. How the heck can anyone justify that? Even the former ball boy who stands behind the bench clapping (remind you of anyone?) and the gap-toothed goofball who announces Pacers games can't believe this is going to end well.

KenPom 8 to 100 - Lickety Split!
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you noticed every team in the big at one point has been top 25 at some point in the last 10 years. this isn't the RMK league of years ago where before the season you could pencil in about 6 gimmies.
 
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bsmitty08 said:
The BIG is a lousy basketball conference. For us to be the worst out of a bad league is embarrassing
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You have to be blind to think the BIG is a lousy conference. Your act is getting very old and juvenile. We have a great swimming and diving team if you're looking for a winner to cheer on.
 
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bsmitty08 said:
The BIG is a lousy basketball conference. For us to be the worst out of a bad league is embarrassing
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I'd say we're probably "middle of the pack" in terms of overall program standing in the B10 right now.

With regards to Woody, whether he should be our coach or not, and if and when the decision should be made to move on. I hope Dolson is looking at more than just wins/losses, where we stand versus the rest of the conference, etc... Scoreboards are helpful, and should always be factored in. But for those that are using our current scoreboards situation as justification for canning Woody...he's less than a year removed from having a very solid year by scoreboard standards. Near the top of the B10, swept Purdue, easily made the NCAA tournament... And he does have a 5 star recruit inked for next season. And as bad as it seems right now, he is 6-6 in the conference. The scoreboard alone doesn't likely lead to firing Woody any time soon.

If you're pining for Woody to be gone, you should be talking about style of play, lack of planning, roster management, player behavior on and off the court... All of these things are more interesting to talk about anyways. And if you're good in all those areas, the wins will take care of themselves.

I'm not pining for Woody to be gone, necessarily. I just want the style to improve, the planning to improve, the roster to be more balanced, and to have kids that play hard all the time. Seems like a lot of things for a coach to change in his program, in quick order...so if Woody can't/won't/isn't willing to make major changes...THEN yeah, next man up.
 
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IUNorth said:
I'd say we're probably "middle of the pack" in terms of overall program standing in the B10 right now.

With regards to Woody, whether he should be our coach or not, and if and when the decision should be made to move on. I hope Dolson is looking at more than just wins/losses, where we stand versus the rest of the conference, etc... Scoreboards are helpful, and should always be factored in. But for those that are using our current scoreboards situation as justification for canning Woody...he's less than a year removed from having a very solid year by scoreboard standards. Near the top of the B10, swept Purdue, easily made the NCAA tournament... And he does have a 5 star recruit inked for next season. And as bad as it seems right now, he is 6-6 in the conference. The scoreboard alone doesn't likely lead to firing Woody any time soon.

If you're pining for Woody to be gone, you should be talking about style of play, lack of planning, roster management, player behavior on and off the court... All of these things are more interesting to talk about anyways. And if you're good in all those areas, the wins will take care of themselves.

I'm not pining for Woody to be gone, necessarily. I just want the style to improve, the planning to improve, the roster to be more balanced, and to have kids that play hard all the time. Seems like a lot of things for a coach to change in his program, in quick order...so if Woody can't/won't/isn't willing to make major changes...THEN yeah, next man up.
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Well said.
 
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IUNorth said:
No one was predicting, or could have predicted, the drop off that we've seen this year.

I'm going to give Dolson the benefit of the doubt, and think that bonus was an understanding that if he got us back to being an NCAA tournament team in the first couple years, he'd get rewarded for it financially.

Dolson felt the need to bring Matta and Fife in initially, for a reason. He didn't have to take those steps, so it seems obvious, to me, that he had some concerns with Woody on some levels. And I doubt our first two years completely erased those concerns. And even if they did, this season would have to be bringing them back to the front of his mind.
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Agree to disagree. We were unranked in every ranking, so it was clear we weren’t exactly trending towards elite. It’s fair this sort of decline was tough to see coming (at least for us outsiders), but a lot was uncertain.

Making the tourney and winning one game with TJD and a lotto pick is okay. I guess you could one-time bonus $1M to Woody for his first two years. That’s generous since he is just fulfilling the duties of his contract he gets paid $3M + defined incentives to do. I don’t like the permanent raise given his accomplishments at the time. Was Woody going to leave? No.

I know I am arguing something that is not important in the big picture. To me it’s more poor mgmt from Dolson which annoys me. Spend that $1M to do something with better ROI for the athletic department — I can think of many different ways to spend it to help grow IUBB or other sports.
 
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hickorytree1 said:
You have to be blind to think the BIG is a lousy conference. Your act is getting very old and juvenile. We have a great swimming and diving team if you're looking for a winner to cheer on.
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The BIG is not good in basketball. Just look at the overall performance of the conference. The BIG, 12, SEC and ACC are all far superior basketball conferences.
 
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IUNorth said:
I'd say we're probably "middle of the pack" in terms of overall program standing in the B10 right now.

With regards to Woody, whether he should be our coach or not, and if and when the decision should be made to move on. I hope Dolson is looking at more than just wins/losses, where we stand versus the rest of the conference, etc... Scoreboards are helpful, and should always be factored in. But for those that are using our current scoreboards situation as justification for canning Woody...he's less than a year removed from having a very solid year by scoreboard standards. Near the top of the B10, swept Purdue, easily made the NCAA tournament... And he does have a 5 star recruit inked for next season. And as bad as it seems right now, he is 6-6 in the conference. The scoreboard alone doesn't likely lead to firing Woody any time soon.

If you're pining for Woody to be gone, you should be talking about style of play, lack of planning, roster management, player behavior on and off the court... All of these things are more interesting to talk about anyways. And if you're good in all those areas, the wins will take care of themselves.

I'm not pining for Woody to be gone, necessarily. I just want the style to improve, the planning to improve, the roster to be more balanced, and to have kids that play hard all the time. Seems like a lot of things for a coach to change in his program, in quick order...so if Woody can't/won't/isn't willing to make major changes...THEN yeah, next man up.
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Woody’s “program/culture” won’t lead to long term success. It’s time to move on, his roster construction is terrible
 
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bsmitty08 said:
Woody’s “program/culture” won’t lead to long term success. It’s time to move on, his roster construction is terrible
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Hard to argue with those things, right now.

If IU sticks with him through this offseason...how he handles the roster will say a lot on where his heads at, and his intentions for next year...obviously.
 
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IUNorth said:
Hard to argue with those things, right now.

If IU sticks with him through this offseason...how he handles the roster will say a lot on where his heads at, and his intentions for next year...obviously.
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It already has to be a short term solution. He only has 1 recruit and he could possibly be a one and done
 
bsmitty08 said:
The BIG is not good in basketball. Just look at the overall performance of the conference. The BIG, 12, SEC and ACC are all far superior basketball conferences.
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It depends how you define good. I think it’s fair to say that the B10 has not been elite nationally at the top of the league for decades.

Perhaps it is deeper than it was 25 years ago, but you could make a fortune fading the conference in the NCAAs.
 
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IUNorth said:
I'd say we're probably "middle of the pack" in terms of overall program standing in the B10 right now.

With regards to Woody, whether he should be our coach or not, and if and when the decision should be made to move on. I hope Dolson is looking at more than just wins/losses, where we stand versus the rest of the conference, etc... Scoreboards are helpful, and should always be factored in. But for those that are using our current scoreboards situation as justification for canning Woody...he's less than a year removed from having a very solid year by scoreboard standards. Near the top of the B10, swept Purdue, easily made the NCAA tournament... And he does have a 5 star recruit inked for next season. And as bad as it seems right now, he is 6-6 in the conference. The scoreboard alone doesn't likely lead to firing Woody any time soon.

If you're pining for Woody to be gone, you should be talking about style of play, lack of planning, roster management, player behavior on and off the court... All of these things are more interesting to talk about anyways. And if you're good in all those areas, the wins will take care of themselves.

I'm not pining for Woody to be gone, necessarily. I just want the style to improve, the planning to improve, the roster to be more balanced, and to have kids that play hard all the time. Seems like a lot of things for a coach to change in his program, in quick order...so if Woody can't/won't/isn't willing to make major changes...THEN yeah, next man up.
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Your last paragraph says it all. I’m incredibly negative on the prospects of those things happening. Woody reminds me a little bit of Chris Ballard (Colts GM). Seems to think he’s got a 10-year contract - so no big hurry to win now.

I honestly believe the only way this gets fixed is for Woody to bring in all new assistants. Do what Bird did with the Pacers: have an OC and a DC. Make sure both have plenty of experience at this level and understand the importance of fundamentals. Turn it over to them completely.

The 3rd assistant needs to be a real recruiter. The dudes we have now seem to think they only can find players at one school. That’s ridiculous and lazy as hell.

There’s an enormous amount of work to be done between Feb 8, 2024 and September 1, 2024. I don’t ever want to see a roster with and open scholarship and 2 permanently injured players again.
 
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IUNorth said:
Portal era...he can completely change IU basketball's philosophy and direction in about 2-3 months, if he wants to.
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That is NOT how you build a program that is a one year fix at best. Look at Minnesota he is turning it around and most all his players he recruited out of hs not the portal.
 
hickorytree1 said:
You have to be blind to think the BIG is a lousy conference. Your act is getting very old and juvenile. We have a great swimming and diving team if you're looking for a winner to cheer on.
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The BIG isn’t very good. Wisconsin was widely considered to be 2nd or 3rd best and they lost at Michigan last night.

Purdue is the only serious contender on a national stage.
 
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Sobchak_Security said:
That $1 million raise I will never understand. Where was Woody going to leave Indiana for?
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I guess two tourney appearances and one tourney win (with TJD, a lotto PG, and all our NIL $), and being unranked going into this season, was sufficient outperformance of the expectations laid out when he signed two seasons ago to warrant a 33% base salary increase of $1M. Lol. As you said he isn’t going anywhere.

Spend $1M on facilities, or get some local kids some bball or ball tickets, or buy a Super Bowl ad for IU football, or do anything else.
 
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Tammany Hall said:
I guess two tourney appearances and one tourney win (with TJD, a lotto PG, and all our NIL $), and being unranked going into this season, was sufficient outperformance of the expectations laid out when he signed two seasons ago to warrant a 33% base salary increase of $1M. Lol. As you said he isn’t going anywhere.

Spend $1M on facilities, or get some local kids some bball or ball tickets, or buy a Super Bowl ad for IU football, or do anything else.
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STRONGLY guess the raise was a performance incentive.

Before it, he was one of the lower paid coaches in the conference. Going to the NCAA's in his first two years is a decent metric for a performance incentive...maybe top 5 finish in the regular season too...?? After the raise, he's one of the higher paid coaches in the conference.

IU's basketball coach should be one of the higher paid coaches in the conference.

Its becoming much more clear that he probably doesn't deserve to be one of the higher paid coaches in the conference...which is why I'm choosing to believe the raise was an automatic, performance triggered incentive of some sort.
 
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bsmitty08 said:
The BIG is not good in basketball. Just look at the overall performance of the conference. The BIG, 12, SEC and ACC are all far superior basketball conferences.
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Well, PU is the best team in the country, and lost to Nebraska and Northwestern (almost twice). The conference rankings I've seen show the BIG as no. 3 in the country behind the Big 12 and SEC. The BIG has obviously been better, but not bad based on rankings. Definitely not lousy.
 
IUNorth said:
STRONGLY guess the raise was a performance incentive.

Before it, he was one of the lower paid coaches in the conference. Going to the NCAA's in his first two years is a decent metric for a performance incentive...maybe top 5 finish in the regular season too...?? After the raise, he's one of the higher paid coaches in the conference.

IU's basketball coach should be one of the higher paid coaches in the conference.

Its becoming much more clear that he probably doesn't deserve to be one of the higher paid coaches in the conference...which is why I'm choosing to believe the raise was an automatic, performance triggered incentive of some sort.
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If this $1M raise was in his original contract then I am fine with it.

I don’t think the raise was in the original contract when I look at the 2021 MOU linked below. Not in the incentives list. I think Scott decided to do this last summer, which is wild.

And what’s even more wild is he only gets a $685K bonus if he wins the friggin’ national title! It’s just a $25K bonus for making the dance and $25K bonus for winning a first round game. Yet we just gave him an extra $1M per year! That’s a final four/natty type season to get an extra $1M in various bonuses.

If there was some undocumented agreement that’s even worse for Scott.

I’ll just say again, I know it doesn’t really matter, it’s just fun to discuss on a slow day.

MOU
 
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