3rd and 4th down playcalls

[Middawg]

Early in the 3rd quarter, Hoosiers had a chance to take back momentum while still up 27-26.

3rd and 2 from Illinois 36, Howland gets pushed back 2 yards.

4th and 4 from the Illinois 38, Allen shows again he has no balls and punts instead of going for it.

Hell, a 55 yard FG attempt has way more football logic than that punt.

Net 24 yard punt, Illinois goes 86 yards in 5 plays to take the 6 point lead.

It's like Allen didn't see the 300+ passing yards his D gave up in the first half.

This game was about out scoring Illinois and Allen punted.

 

[Bowlmania]

Early in the 3rd quarter, Hoosiers had a chance to take back momentum while still up 27-26.

3rd and 2 from Illinois 36, Howland gets pushed back 2 yards.

4th and 4 from the Illinois 38, Allen shows again he has no balls and punts instead of going for it.

Hell, a 55 yard FG attempt has way more football logic than that punt.

Net 24 yard punt, Illinois goes 86 yards in 5 plays to take the 6 point lead.

It's like Allen didn't see the 300+ passing yards his D gave up in the first half.

This game was about out scoring Illinois and Allen punted.

Are you effing kidding me? 4th and 4 conversions are statistically unlikely, and then you're giving Illinois the ball practically at midfield. No, it didn't work out but you're looking at it after the fact. It was the right call at the time.

And you're going after Howland and the O? We scored 42 fvcking points in regulation. This loss is on the D. I can't believe I even have to say that.

 

[kmathum]

Are you effing kidding me? 4th and 4 conversions are statistically unlikely, and then you're giving Illinois the ball practically at midfield. No, it didn't work out but you're looking at it after the fact. It was the right call at the time.

And you're going after Howland and the O? We scored 42 fvcking points in regulation. This loss is on the D. I can't believe I even have to say that.

This loss is on you know who. Don't pass the buck.

 

[OpenWheels]

The 38 not midfield. And we're giving it to Illini only if we dont make it. And if we do make it, WE have chance for 7, rather than fear them getting one from 20 yards better field position.

It was a terrible decision. In poker terms WEAK. TIGHT.

 

[Fenny72]

McCulley was unstoppable, until we stopped going to him as much. I know Illinois shaded him with a safety more often second half, but when we threw his way it was a catch or interference. I saw him coming off the field in the second half several times, wonder if he was gassed, dinged up?

A run and two QB draws in OT when you McCulley had been dominating and Sorsby just led a full length drive in regulation and you don't pass once in OT?

 

[Hoosiers Rising]

As far as McCulley goes I think it was both. We went back to him late as he was getting his second wind.

 

[Middawg]

Are you effing kidding me? 4th and 4 conversions are statistically unlikely, and then you're giving Illinois the ball practically at midfield. No, it didn't work out but you're looking at it after the fact. It was the right call at the time.

And you're going after Howland and the O? We scored 42 fvcking points in regulation. This loss is on the D. I can't believe I even have to say that.

I don't think reading comprehension is your strong suit.

My point above was that Allen's decision making there was weak with no balls as others have restated.

Throwing on 3rd down would have been better knowing if it goes to 4th down you have confidence in your offense to run it for 2 yards.

I can't imagine a winning football team ever punting on 4th and 4 from the opponents 38.

There's enough posts concerning the D. Piling on those adds nothing to the wrapup of this game.

 

[TMFT]

I don't think reading comprehension is your strong suit.

My point above was that Allen's decision making there was weak with no balls as others have restated.

Throwing on 3rd down would have been better knowing if it goes to 4th down you have confidence in your offense to run it for 2 yards.

I can't imagine a winning football team ever punting on 4th and 4 from the opponents 38.

There's enough posts concerning the D. Piling on those adds nothing to the wrapup of this game.

I’m glad you saved me the trouble of writing this thread. I just got back from Champaign and was going to do the same.

I didn’t like the choice to punt there at the time. If you do t have reason to believe your defense can stop Illinois, might as well take your shot on 4th down. I said the same thing when Illinois had a 1st down ineligible player downfield, we’d almost be better off with declining and being 2nd and 10 vs 1 and 15.

 

[4IUSox2]

That 3rd down call was weak. Needed to throw on 3rd/2. Instead got whipped up front, losing 2. A Throw there even Incomplete and we are in 4th/2, which is makable.

OT Play calling was way too conservative. Both Sorsby and McCulley were having big days,
Really in sync. Use your best playmaker!!

 

[Jackskip23]

I don't think reading comprehension is your strong suit.

My point above was that Allen's decision making there was weak with no balls as others have restated.

Throwing on 3rd down would have been better knowing if it goes to 4th down you have confidence in your offense to run it for 2 yards.

I can't imagine a winning football team ever punting on 4th and 4 from the opponents 38.

There's enough posts concerning the D. Piling on those adds nothing to the wrapup of this game.

Those are Carey’s calls, not Allen’s.

 

[td75]

I thought they should've gone for it, too. Punting didn't solve a damn thing.

 

[Bowlmania]

I don't think reading comprehension is your strong suit.

My point above was that Allen's decision making there was weak with no balls as others have restated.

Throwing on 3rd down would have been better knowing if it goes to 4th down you have confidence in your offense to run it for 2 yards.

I can't imagine a winning football team ever punting on 4th and 4 from the opponents 38.

There's enough posts concerning the D. Piling on those adds nothing to the wrapup of this game.

No. Your problem is that you can't see the forest for the trees. Or the elephant in the room.

We shouldn't have to score 50 points to beat Illinois. We shouldn't have been torched for 500 freaking yards by their backup QB.

Can we point to mistakes on offense? Of course. Two turnovers, some costly penalties, a couple of misfires by the QB. And, for the sake of argument, you can add the decision to punt on 4th and 4 if that makes you feel better. And special teams had a PAT blocked. But, overall, our offense stepped up in a huge way today, for the first time all season. The offensive production and scoring should have been more than enough to secure a W.

This loss falls squarely on our D. Explosive plays by the Illini. The inability to pressure Paddock or get to him until late in the game. Wide open Illinois receivers all afternoon. Missed tackles by the Hoosiers all afternoon. That's not "piling on." That's the reality.

 

[Bucket Getter]

No. Your problem is that you can't see the forest for the trees. Or the elephant in the room.

We shouldn't have to score 50 points to beat Illinois. We shouldn't have been torched for 500 freaking yards by their backup QB.

Can we point to mistakes on offense? Of course. Two turnovers, some costly penalties, a couple of misfires by the QB. And, for the sake of argument, you can add the decision to punt on 4th and 4 if that makes you feel better. And special teams had a PAT blocked. But, overall, our offense stepped up in a huge way today, for the first time all season. The offensive production and scoring should have been more than enough to secure a W.

This loss falls squarely on our D. Explosive plays by the Illini. The inability to pressure Paddock or get to him until late in the game. Wide open Illinois receivers all afternoon. Missed tackles by the Hoosiers all afternoon. That's not "piling on." That's the reality.

All good arguments. None of which offsets the fact that two weeks in a row we have wilted when we had a chance to pounce. Weakness personified.

 

[Palmbeachhoosier]

This whole is hilarious. Earlier people on this board have shredded Allen for going for it too much on 4th down. Now we are clinging to a one point lead and they have momentum. It was not fourth and 1 or 2. It was 4 th and 4. The right thing to do is line up and try to draw them offsides. Yes I realize it almost never works. Take the 5 yard penalty and try to pin them deep and hope your defense can finally find itself and get a stop. I know instead the punter puts it in the end zone I know the special teams coach’s fault because he probably did not tell the punter to not punt the ball in the end zone. Even with the ball going to the 20 there is a big difference between making them go 80 as opposed to 68. There is enough other things to criticize but this one is ridiculous.

 

[Middawg]

Those are Carey’s calls, not Allen’s.

As usual, you are again absurdly incorrect.

The head coach would 100% be making the call whether to go for it on 4th down.

The head coach would also be the one communicating to the OC that the offense has two plays to pickup the first down just outside of field goal range.

 

[Middawg]

This whole is hilarious. Earlier people on this board have shredded Allen for going for it too much on 4th down. Now we are clinging to a one point lead and they have momentum. It was not fourth and 1 or 2. It was 4 th and 4. The right thing to do is line up and try to draw them offsides. Yes I realize it almost never works. Take the 5 yard penalty and try to pin them deep and hope your defense can finally find itself and get a stop. I know instead the punter puts it in the end zone I know the special teams coach’s fault because he probably did not tell the punter to not punt the ball in the end zone. Even with the ball going to the 20 there is a big difference between making them go 80 as opposed to 68. There is enough other things to criticize but this one is ridiculous.

Regaining some momentum that was completely lost was the most important factor at that point in time.

It was a big time momentum opportunity decision in the game.

What you describe is not the mentality of winning football teams nor should be how desperate teams think.

 

[4IUSox2]

I took more issue with the 3rd/2 run call that the OL got whipped on making it 4th/4 (should have been a quick slant or roll out keeper with the Illini D mostly in the box) than punting on 4th/4. I do agree at that point though, try getting them to jump, take the penalty if they don’t, then punt.

 

[Palmbeachhoosier]

Regaining some momentum that was completely lost was the most important factor at that point in time.

It was a big time momentum opportunity decision in the game.

What you describe is not the mentality of winning football teams nor should be how desperate teams think.

Are you kidding that is the strategy I see all day every day from all kinds of teams. What I do agree is that winning teams do not jump offsides. Fourth and 1 maybe even 2 I probably go for it but 4 no way.

 

[TMFT]

This whole is hilarious. Earlier people on this board have shredded Allen for going for it too much on 4th down. Now we are clinging to a one point lead and they have momentum. It was not fourth and 1 or 2. It was 4 th and 4. The right thing to do is line up and try to draw them offsides. Yes I realize it almost never works. Take the 5 yard penalty and try to pin them deep and hope your defense can finally find itself and get a stop. I know instead the punter puts it in the end zone I know the special teams coach’s fault because he probably did not tell the punter to not punt the ball in the end zone. Even with the ball going to the 20 there is a big difference between making them go 80 as opposed to 68. There is enough other things to criticize but this one is ridiculous.

I do t usually disagree with you but have to hear.

I think the call was fine from a conventional perspective. I think it was bad given how the day was going. Like you said, you try to bury them and hope your D can find itself. I wouldn’t have had any confidence at that point that they were going to. And if Illinois is highly probable to score either way, might as well see if you can keep possession and/or score again.

 

[Palmbeachhoosier]

I do t usually disagree with you but have to hear.

I think the call was fine from a conventional perspective. I think it was bad given how the day was going. Like you said, you try to bury them and hope your D can find itself. I wouldn’t have had any confidence at that point that they were going to. And if Illinois is highly probable to score either way, might as well see if you can keep possession and/or score again.

I really can’t say that I entirely disagree with you. Just that 4 yards is different than 2 yards. My biggest point is that many on the board would absolutely killed Allen if they went for it and failed. It was loose loose for Allen. But for people to say it was absolutely wrong. The majority of coaches do he did.

 

[TMFT]

I really can’t say that I entirely disagree with you. Just that 4 yards is different than 2 yards. My biggest point is that many on the board would absolutely killed Allen if they went for it and failed. It was loose loose for Allen. But for people to say it was absolutely wrong. The majority of coaches do he did.

I’m 100% with you on that. We’ve gotten to a point that CTA could walk on water and some folks would criticize him for not being able to swim.

 

[OpenWheels]

I’m 100% with you on that. We’ve gotten to a point that CTA could walk on water and some folks would criticize him for not being able to swim.

And a bunch of you (not 'you' necessarily, just it shows up every game...) make this weak claim every.single.time that he makes an in game decision some argue is incorrect.

Debate the call if you want. But lame ad hominem made up bs that the same people would criticize the opposite decision is laughably ridiculous.
Sure, many would criticize if he went for it. Not the same people.

And the decision wasn't all that close in the context of the game. It was pretty obvious, and not 'in hindsight' which is the other laughable arument. It's only one factor in why we lost. But as usual, the in game call was dubious at best.

If you believe the team was going to be helped by gaining 25 yards of field position, more than the team would've been helped by going for it... fine. I think that's way off base, but sure, I could be wrong.

 

[TMFT]

And a bunch of you (not 'you' necessarily, just it shows up every game...) make this weak claim every.single.time that he makes an in game decision some argue is incorrect.

Debate the call if you want. But lame ad hominem made up bs that the same people would criticize the opposite decision is laughably ridiculous.
Sure, many would criticize if he went for it. Not the same people.

And the decision wasn't all that close in the context of the game. It was pretty obvious, and not 'in hindsight' which is the other laughable arument. It's only one factor in why we lost. But as usual, the in game call was dubious at best.

If you believe the team was going to be helped by gaining 25 yards of field position, more than the team would've been helped by going for it... fine. I think that's way off base, but sure, I could be wrong.

I disagree to the extent that some people that want Allen gone want him gone at all costs. I’m confident they would have said he was being reckless and lost the game if they had gone for it on 4th & 4 (like I think he should have) and been unsuccessful. Just like those same ones are saying the punt decision was playing to lose. Not saying that applies to everyone, but some.

They’re the same kind of casual fan that thought Kane was a trash hire in 2019 and a genius in 2020. And that Sheridan was a brilliant hire in 2020 but trash in 2021. And that Allen was taking IU to the moon after 2019 and 2020 and deserved coach of the year but that he’s over his head now.