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We have a black President and a black Attorney General

davegolf

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Sep 18, 2001
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and all major cites are controlled by democrats and mostly minority leadership.

According to a NBC/Wall Street Journal polls 96% of Americans are braced for summer of race riots.

"Americans are bracing for a summer of racial disturbances around the country, such as those that have wracked Baltimore, with African Americans and whites deeply divided about why the urban violence has occurred, a new Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll has found.

A resounding 96% of adults surveyed said it was likely there would be additional racial disturbances this summer, a signal that Americans believe Baltimore’s recent problems aren’t a local phenomenon but instead are symptomatic of broader national problems."

Shouldn't those in leadership take a stand on the bloody pulpit and stop this in its tracks. I see the threat of this unrest as a top priority - do you - or am I concerned about nothing as I have been accused in the past.
 
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and all major cites are controlled by democrats and mostly minority leadership.

According to a NBC/Wall Street Journal polls 96% of Americans are braced for summer of race riots.

"Americans are bracing for a summer of racial disturbances around the country, such as those that have wracked Baltimore, with African Americans and whites deeply divided about why the urban violence has occurred, a new Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll has found.

A resounding 96% of adults surveyed said it was likely there would be additional racial disturbances this summer, a signal that Americans believe Baltimore’s recent problems aren’t a local phenomenon but instead are symptomatic of broader national problems."

Shouldn't those in leadership take a stand on the bloody pulpit and stop this in its tracks. I see the threat of this unrest as a top priority - do you - or am I concerned about nothing as I have been accused in the past.
Those blacks. You can't trust 'em. They are all lazy and want free stuff. And I agree that, um, those people should keep their own in check. Why can't we all just be white...dammit, this country used to be white.
 
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Those blacks. You can't trust 'em. They are all lazy and want free stuff. And I agree that, um, those people should keep their own in check. Why can't we all just be white...dammit, this country used to be white.
Your response is sad. We need leadership from those with access to the pulpit to standup and stop this nonsense.
 
Your response is sad. We need leadership from those with access to the pulpit to standup and stop this nonsense.
What do you want, Dave? It's not enough that our leaders condemn them as "criminals and thugs?"

You want Obama to personally lead any army into battle on horseback to quell the uprising? At least then, he'd be playing the part of emperor you have always been so confident he has assumed.
 
What do you want, Dave? It's not enough that our leaders condemn them as "criminals and thugs?"

You want Obama to personally lead any army into battle on horseback to quell the uprising? At least then, he'd be playing the part of emperor you have always been so confident he has assumed.
I want Obama to take the lead and control and preach peace not hatred. My solution would be to pass a federal civil rights provision that would promote peaceful protest but incarcerate anyone for 5 years that causes harm to a third person's body or property. Throw a brick thru a window or punch/harm an innocent bystander or anyone operating with authority get a go to jail card. No exceptions but with the right of parole for good behavior.
 
I want Obama to take the lead and control and preach peace not hatred. My solution would be to pass a federal civil rights provision that would promote peaceful protest but incarcerate anyone for 5 years that causes harm to a third person's body or property. Throw a brick thru a window or punch/harm an innocent bystander or anyone operating with authority get a go to jail card. No exceptions but with the right of parole for good behavior.
Congress doesn't have the right to pass legislation defining the limits of the 1st Amendment. Only the courts can do that. And at any rate, this seems to fall squarely within the states' police power.

Look at you, Dave, supporting federal overreach! Odd day...
 
What do you want, Dave? It's not enough that our leaders condemn them as "criminals and thugs?"

You want Obama to personally lead any army into battle on horseback to quell the uprising? At least then, he'd be playing the part of emperor you have always been so confident he has assumed.
Condemning them as "criminals and thugs" isn't close to being enough

I expect the president to act like the president of all of us, not just of those who he considers his "base" who are protesting. He cant unify the country and move us forward out of these problems with his continual bashing of "white privilege" while continually telling other people they are victims of oppression. We need to restore a modicum of respect for the authorities and first responders while at the same time reassure people that we will always strive to make governmental authority better and more responsive.

He can:

1. Stop the knee jerk reflexive reaction that the white cops, or law enforcement in general, is a problem that needs attention.

2. In those areas where targeted reforms are needed, talk specifically about those and cut out the talk about systemic law enforcement problems.

3. Stop acting like African Americans are victims just because of skin color.

4. Stop constantly offering centuries-old history of Christianity, or of United States citizens, as an excuse or as an "understanding" of atrocities and thuggery in today's world, including within our borders.

5. Give all the people who live in the United States reasons to believe that the United States is a good place instead of constantly reminding them that "we have a lot of work to do" and that only he can fix things.

6. Stop acting like some people don't "pay their fair share" (whatever the hell that is supposed to mean) is the root of all the problems and we can fix our problems with more taxes on the rich.

7. Stop acting like a narcissistic and self-referential leader who sets himself as the only one with ideas to move us forward. A little humbleness would be in order to actually show the country that political opponents have good ideas too. A good leader doesn't care who gets the credit for accomplishments. A good leader doesn't need to "build" a legacy. A good leader has a legacy as a byproduct of leadership.

The objective should always be to move us forward together; not to divide us into the good guys and bad guys.

Yeah, I know. In my dreams. Obama has absolutely no idea what this means. He can never pull it off.

 
Are Democrat Black Leaders the Reason for Riots?

Stated another way, if the country, attorney general, and large city mayors were White Republicans would the probability of unrest in large urban centers be less likely this summer?

The poll cited by Dave also had some interesting results illustrating how blacks and whites see the causes for disturbances differently,

Asked to choose between two possible explanations for recent events, 60% of blacks said they reflected “long-standing frustrations about police mistreatment of African Americans.” Some 27% of black respondents said the disturbances were caused by people who used protests over an African American man dying in police custody “as an excused to engage in looting and violence.”

But among whites, the balance of opinion flipped: 58% said people were seizing an excuse to loot, while 32% said the events reflected long-standing frustrations with police.


It is also interesting to note that respondents to the poll didn't think disturbances would be as likely close to where they lived,

While most people in the survey predicted further racial disturbances this summer, a smaller share expected them to hit close to home. The poll found that 53% of whites and 46% of African Americans said it was likely there would be a racial disturbance in the metropolitan area nearest to them.
 
Here's the thing tough

Many black leaders talk about the recent examples of cop mistreatment of blacks in Ferguson and Staten Island. Those cases were investigated and no criminal charges brought. I am not aware of any black leader supporting those decisions. Those leaders have the effect of undermining due process and the law. Many black leaders and politicians STILL say those incidents reveal problems, implying that the system is defective. They say things like a need to reform the grand jury system, or, as Holder said, the burden of proof is too high. That is crazy. Strict burdens of proof and grand juries are there to protect the rights of the accused, which according to many, are mostly blacks. It seems as though they want one set of rules of whites and a different set of rules for blacks.

It is becoming obvious that in some cases intentionally, and in other cases as a by-product of politics, racial tensions are exploited to benefit the exploiters by maintaining their power and influence and maybe also their electability.
 
CO Hoosier:
"I think that if you look at what's happened over the course of the last year, you've just got to scratch your head," . "Public servants should not violate the law. If these charges are true, it's outrageous and it's unacceptable."

Quote from House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH).

Is he being reflexive, too?
 
Scienter is the difference maker

Scienter: is a legal term that refers to intent or knowledge of wrongdoing.

Ferguson and Staten Island don't qualify. Baltimore might. The presence of intent or knowledge of law breaking as it is happening is indeed outrageous and unacceptable.

But even in those circumstance when a cop breaks the law with intent or knowledge, it is indeed reflexive to believe that circumstance in and of itself shows that we have systemic problems with law enforcement, that people should run from the cops, that they shouldn't cooperate with the cops, or that wholesale reforms are needed.
 
In the case of Baltimore, 6 cops charged with criminal wrongdoing may well represent a systemic issue.

Both sides, white and black, are too quick to take a position. If people mistrust cops, both sides need to take some responsibility.
 
Your response is sad. We need leadership from those with access to the pulpit to standup and stop this nonsense.
You're right. Let's start with how the police treat minorities overall.
I want Obama to take the lead and control and preach peace not hatred. My solution would be to pass a federal civil rights provision that would promote peaceful protest but incarcerate anyone for 5 years that causes harm to a third person's body or property. Throw a brick thru a window or punch/harm an innocent bystander or anyone operating with authority get a go to jail card. No exceptions but with the right of parole for good behav
I want Obama to take the lead and control and preach peace not hatred. My solution would be to pass a federal civil rights provision that would promote peaceful protest but incarcerate anyone for 5 years that causes harm to a third person's body or property. Throw a brick thru a window or punch/harm an innocent bystander or anyone operating with authority get a go to jail card. No exceptions but with the right of parole for good behavior.
Oh now he's preaching hatred. Ok Dave. Take your meds and relax. We'll have a white person in the White House soon enough. I can't guarantee it will be a southern white Christian male, but odds are the person will be white, so that's gotta count for something. You've managed to stay alive and keep your guns for seven years now, I'm sure you'll be alright just a little while longer.
 
In the case of Baltimore, 6 cops charged with criminal wrongdoing may well represent a systemic issue.

Hard to argue this is a racist issue given the involvement in black officers and some of the detail behind past incidents. Perhaps it is a race issue, but by definition, it is not a racism issue.
 
Hard to argue this is a racist issue given the involvement in black officers and some of the detail behind past incidents. Perhaps it is a race issue, but by definition, it is not a racism issue.
The problem is the relationship of the black community to law enforcement, not the relationship of the black community to white officers. Certainly the racial makeup of a police department can be part of the issue, but it goes deeper than that.

Although this wasn't necessarily true in Ferguson, in Baltimore, it seems so far to me to primarily be whites who are making this a black-white issue. I'm not sure if that's simply ironic, or if it means something, i.e., highlights the fact that in any difficult situation, many of us will tend toward the simpler explanation.
 
The problem is the relationship of the black community to law enforcement, not the relationship of the black community to white officers. Certainly the racial makeup of a police department can be part of the issue, but it goes deeper than that.

Although this wasn't necessarily true in Ferguson, in Baltimore, it seems so far to me to primarily be whites who are making this a black-white issue. I'm not sure if that's simply ironic, or if it means something, i.e., highlights the fact that in any difficult situation, many of us will tend toward the simpler explanation.
In addition to the racial disparities in both the likelihood and the brutality of police enforcement activities, relations between the police and the policed are also undermined by municipalities that see poor people as a revenue source.
 
Finally a set of posts which address the issue and not attack the messenger(except for maybe one) I think there can be bipartisan consensus to address the issue. We need leaders to step to the plate.
 
The Mayor finally spoke to the situation and it was a great response -
"Baltimore Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake (D) on Sunday vowed that anyone who had committed crimes during recent riots in her city would suffer the consequences of their actions.

“I’m going to make sure they are brought to justice,” Rawlings-Blake said of violent demonstrators who damaged the city last Monday evening.

“I don’t condone it and I will make sure those individuals are held accountable,” she told host Chuck Todd on NBC’s “Meet the Press.”
 
The problem is the relationship of the black community to law enforcement, not the relationship of the black community to white officers. Certainly the racial makeup of a police department can be part of the issue, but it goes deeper than that.

Although this wasn't necessarily true in Ferguson, in Baltimore, it seems so far to me to primarily be whites who are making this a black-white issue. I'm not sure if that's simply ironic, or if it means something, i.e., highlights the fact that in any difficult situation, many of us will tend toward the simpler explanation.

But there were plenty of #blacklivesmatter protesters in Baltimore. If you scroll through pictures, news stories, blogs, etc. you will find plenty of examples.

What evidence is there of white people making a black-white issue, other than pointing out the obvious (majority of rioters were black)?
 
Scienter is the difference maker

Scienter: is a legal term that refers to intent or knowledge of wrongdoing.

Ferguson and Staten Island don't qualify. Baltimore might. The presence of intent or knowledge of law breaking as it is happening is indeed outrageous and unacceptable.

But even in those circumstance when a cop breaks the law with intent or knowledge, it is indeed reflexive to believe that circumstance in and of itself shows that we have systemic problems with law enforcement, that people should run from the cops, that they shouldn't cooperate with the cops, or that wholesale reforms are needed.
I can't imagine that you'd ever run from the police. But then again, if a cop saw you run away he'd never chase you. Nor would he arrest you for making eye contact or possessing a not-switchblade. Nor would he take you for a "rough ride" in the paddy wagon after roughing you up and arresting you for no reason. People like you never ever die mysteriously in police custody.

Since your risk of being subjected to impolite (let alone fatal) treatment by the police is essentially zero, maybe you're in no position to say what someone who faced those threats daily might reasonably do.
 
I'm not even going to spend my time reading some plea for reparations.
That's why you remain ignorant. TNC is a must-read whenever he writes. This piece is provocative -- and I don't support reparations -- but if you don't get outside your comfort zone you won't ever learn anything that other hedgies don't tell you.
 
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and all major cites are controlled by democrats and mostly minority leadership.

According to a NBC/Wall Street Journal polls 96% of Americans are braced for summer of race riots.

"Americans are bracing for a summer of racial disturbances around the country, such as those that have wracked Baltimore, with African Americans and whites deeply divided about why the urban violence has occurred, a new Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll has found.

A resounding 96% of adults surveyed said it was likely there would be additional racial disturbances this summer, a signal that Americans believe Baltimore’s recent problems aren’t a local phenomenon but instead are symptomatic of broader national problems."

Shouldn't those in leadership take a stand on the bloody pulpit and stop this in its tracks. I see the threat of this unrest as a top priority - do you - or am I concerned about nothing as I have been accused in the past.
We can't give in to fear. If we do then the supposed fix to the problem will only make things worse. We need level heads to prevail, and the conviction to stand up against anyone who is for anarchy. I don't know the statistics,but I wonder if a lot of the rioters in Baltimore were actually from there. It could be people with a different agenda or maybe they are like the Joker in the Dark Night? They just want to see the city burn.
 
But there were plenty of #blacklivesmatter protesters in Baltimore. If you scroll through pictures, news stories, blogs, etc. you will find plenty of examples.

What evidence is there of white people making a black-white issue, other than pointing out the obvious (majority of rioters were black)?

Well, forgive me, but your post is a pretty decent example. My point is that #blacklivesmatter doesn't have to be about white people, and in Baltimore, it's not. In Ferguson, the general tenor was a little different.
 
You're right. Let's start with how the police treat minorities overall.


Oh now he's preaching hatred. Ok Dave. Take your meds and relax. We'll have a white person in the White House soon enough. I can't guarantee it will be a southern white Christian male, but odds are the person will be white, so that's gotta count for something. You've managed to stay alive and keep your guns for seven years now, I'm sure you'll be alright just a little while longer.
You know all your post in this thread amount to blatant accusations of racism because someone dares to point to simply facts. It appears on this topic of discussion and others in the past that anyone who might disagree with your position or opinion is a racist. Personally I think Obama is an empty suit but it has nothing to do with his skin color. I think Hillary would make a terrible president and not because of her skin color either. Truth be known I didn't thing much of the Bush admin either and he is and old white guy and a Republican.

CO made some excellent points in this thread and was spot on. One of the comments he made was: "It is becoming obvious that in some cases intentionally, and in other cases as a by-product of politics, racial tensions are exploited to benefit the exploiters by maintaining their power and influence and maybe also their electability."

In line with the above thought, today Chris Wallace interviewed MD Democratic Rep Donna Edwards and her comments illustrate a large part of the problem. Wallace pointed out the simple fact that Baltimore has been governed by Democrats and liberal policies for decades and during the interview Edwards placed part of the blame on the Republican Governor Larry Hogan who has been the Governor since Jan of this year. Wow! In general her position and comments illustrate the point CO was making. Liberal policies of treating blacks as victims and thinking more money is always the answer is a huge part of the problem. Education was an element of the discussion. And the exploiters and many of them are in public offices do in fact create and amplify racial tensions to keep themselves in power. This is a huge part of all our problems....politics, power, and keeping their voting block intact.

Conservatives don't feel that blacks are lazy and free loaders as you often imply and did in this thread. The comment stating why can't we all be white is simply BS and throwing the racism charges at anyone pointing out the simple facts is BS as well. We do in fact need to quit treating blacks as victims because of their skin color. Those with similar attitudes of yours are a huge part of the problems. They do create racial tension when race has nothing to do with it.

Mjvcaj commented: "Hard to argue this is a racist issue given the involvement in black officers and some of the detail behind past incidents. Perhaps it is a race issue, but by definition, it is not a racism issue."

He to is correct.

In closing I have pasted some simple facts I spotted about Baltimore. They have nothing to do with race or my personal opinions on race. Just some facts that are to often ignored. Frankly not often ignored but in general always ignored and certainly by our current admin. It's apparent that policies aren't working and haven't for a long time. This points tend to illustrate that the problems aren't a result of race so much and a lot to do with government policies, initiatives, education, and management.

Do conservatives have all the answers....no they don't but it would be hard to do worse. Perhaps if all sides of the political spectrum would realize the true heart of the problems and work together to solve them some positive results could be achieved. A lot could be accomplished if those in power quit treating blacks as victims and as voting blocks and instead tackled the problems with reforms etc we could see some very positive results. And more importantly quit supporting the race hustlers and exploiters.

●Citizens of this metropolis have not elected a Republican as mayor since 1963, before the War on Poverty began. That mayor’s 4 year term is the only interruption in Democrat rule since 1947. They have had Democrat control for 64 of the last 68 years, and sole control for the last 48 years straight.

●Their mayor is black. ●Their previous mayor, Sheila Dixon, was black. ●She was convicted of embezzlement in 2010 and couldn’t finish her term. They had a white mayor (current Democratic Presidential hopeful Martin O’Malley) for eight years. ●The mayor before him was black.

●Their City Council consists of 15 members. ●All fifteen are Democrats. ●The Council President is black.

●Democrats have had control of legislation in Baltimore for the last 50 years. ●Every program, policy, initiative, or school curriculum that exists in Baltimore was enacted by liberal Democrats.

●The Police Commissioner is black. ●Approximately 50% of the police force is black.

●The School Superintendent is black, along with the School Board. The district has an annual budget of $1.32 billion to teach 84,000 kids. The Baltimore school system ranks second among the nation’s 100 largest school districts in how much it spent per pupil at $15,700 per student. Only NYC spends more.

●Only two thirds of students graduate high school, despite this high level of spending.

The average SAT scores of Baltimore City public school students are: 379 in Reading; 376 in Math; 381 in Writing. These are the scores of the best of the best in Baltimore schools who actually think they should get into college. The average scores in the country, which still suck, are around 500. Students with these scores have about a 15% chance of graduating college. This is the Return on Investment (ROI) you get after spending $188,000 per student over their 12 year academic career.

●The population of Baltimore is 623,000 and 63% are black. Median household income is $41,000, with 24% living below the poverty line. The home ownership rate is 48%. The percentage of college graduates is 27%.

The population was 950,000 in 1950, so it has fallen by 35% in the last 65 years. The population was 24% black in 1950. ●Decades of liberal Democrat policies drove most of the white population out of the city.

●Baltimore’s violent crime rate is 370% higher than the U.S. rate. ●They have over 200 murders, 300 rapes, 3,600 robberies, 4,600 assaults, 7,800 burglaries, and 22,000 thefts per year. ●These are all 2 to 4 times the U.S. averages per 100,000 people.

●Over 35% of all Baltimore residents get food stamps. ●Over 85% of the kids get free breakfasts and lunches at school. ●More than 60% of Baltimore residents are receiving some form of government assistance.

●Baltimore’s welfare paradise is paid for by outrageously high taxes. It’s income tax rate of 3.2% is on top of the state rate of 4.75%. ●It’s property tax rate is more than double the other counties in Maryland. The sales tax rate is 6%. Corporations pay an income tax rate of 8.25%.

●The percentage of out of wedlock births to black women in Baltimore exceeds 72%. ●Baltimore and Detroit are the two cities with populations over 600,000 with the highest percentage of single parent households – 59% to 61%.

●The reported unemployment rate for Baltimore is 8.2%, one of the highest in the country. ●In reality, 42% of the working age population is not working. ■Young black men between the ages of 20 and 24 have a reported unemployment rate of 37%. ■But in reality, it is north of 60%. The number of employees in 1990 totaled 475,000. Today they total 365,000, down 23%
 
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Cajun54: In a word, this is complicated. Baltimore's poor Black neighborhoods are troubled and need a police presence. No one seriously expected Black leadership to resolve the issues, and it hasn't.

What's unfortunate and misguided is the number of Whites who dismiss the whole episode by saying it wouldn't have occurred if Gray didn't run from the police.
 
That's why you remain ignorant. TNC is a must-read whenever he writes. This piece is provocative -- and I don't support reparations -- but if you don't get outside your comfort zone you won't ever learn anything that other hedgies don't tell you.

But it is nonsense. You talk about all of the right wing BS coming out, this is an example of the opposite.
 
Cajun54: No one seriously expected Black leadership to resolve the issues, and it hasn't.

What? Isn't this a big problem in itself? Even black leaders cannot get people to change their behavior. Until that happens, our premise is that throwing more money at the problem isn't going to cause a difference.
 
That's why you remain ignorant. TNC is a must-read whenever he writes. This piece is provocative -- and I don't support reparations -- but if you don't get outside your comfort zone you won't ever learn anything that other hedgies don't tell you.

The TNC piece received multiple awards for top long for essay in 2014. Everyone one this board should read it.
 
But it is nonsense.
Said the guy who refused to read it because he rejected the headline. You should Google "invincible ignorance". It's a logical fallacy by which one persists in error by rejecting anything that might contradict the error.
 
What? Isn't this a big problem in itself? Even black leaders cannot get people to change their behavior. Until that happens, our premise is that throwing more money at the problem isn't going to cause a difference.
One more bad way to frame the question: Should we throw more money at it, or are black people dysfunctional?

Here's a question for you: Is it closer to Cleveland, or by train? Maybe the problem is that you persist in asking the wrong questions.
 
Said the guy who refused to read it because he rejected the headline. You should Google "invincible ignorance". It's a logical fallacy by which one persists in error by rejecting anything that might contradict the error.

Not just the headline, but the biblical bullshit at the beginning and the laughable table of contents. It isn't reality, so I'm not going to bother wasting my time.
 
Those blacks. You can't trust 'em. They are all lazy and want free stuff. And I agree that, um, those people should keep their own in check. Why can't we all just be white...dammit, this country used to be white.
Good reply to Dave; I think that is the answer he was looking for.
 
One more bad way to frame the question: Should we throw more money at it, or are black people dysfunctional?

Here's a question for you: Is it closer to Cleveland, or by train? Maybe the problem is that you persist in asking the wrong questions.

What wrong question is that? You are confused on what I am suggesting is dysfunctional. Not black people. Black communities. I don't understand how the question regarding black people failing to change their own culture and communities is irrelevant. That is a big part of the reason things are how they are. It's much easier to find other scapegoats though.
 
I want Obama to take the lead and control and preach peace not hatred. My solution would be to pass a federal civil rights provision that would promote peaceful protest but incarcerate anyone for 5 years that causes harm to a third person's body or property. Throw a brick thru a window or punch/harm an innocent bystander or anyone operating with authority get a go to jail card. No exceptions but with the right of parole for good behavior.
When did Obama preach hatred? News to me!
 
Not just the headline, but the biblical bullshit at the beginning and the laughable table of contents. It isn't reality, so I'm not going to bother wasting my time.
Invincible ignorance from a hedgie who only cares what other hedgies think and won't read anything that challenges his preconceptions. If TNC is out of bounds for you, then you will necessarily be without a clue. Hint: you've wasted a lot of time -- not including yours -- in this thread.
 
Invincible ignorance from a hedgie who only cares what other hedgies think and won't read anything that challenges his preconceptions. If TNC is out of bounds for you, then you will necessarily be without a clue. Hint: you've wasted a lot of time -- not including yours -- in this thread.

I don't know who TNC is, nor do I care. And why do you keep calling me a "hedgie"? Not sure how that term possibly applies.

Shorter mjvcaj: "I don't blame black people individually, just collectively."

The fact that you don't shows a complete misunderstanding of the situation.
 
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