We have a black President and a black Attorney General

[Rockfish1]

I don't know who TNC is, nor do I care

QED

 

[Rockfish1]

Rockfish1 said: "Shorter mjvcaj: 'I don't blame black people individually, just collectively.'"

mjvcaj responded: "The fact that you don't shows a complete misunderstanding of the situation."

Shorter mjvcaj: "I blame black people."

QED

 

[meridian]

Please link to any examples of Obama preaching hatred.

To Dave, anything Obama says is "hatred."

 

[AEgley]

"You aint seen nothing yet...." BTO....

 

[bawlmer]

What? Isn't this a big problem in itself? Even black leaders cannot get people to change their behavior. Until that happens, our premise is that throwing more money at the problem isn't going to cause a difference.

Imagine you've been elected to the office of Mayor of Baltimore. What do you do to get people to begin to change their behavior?

The reality is Black flight out of those neighborhoods for families who have the means. And that suggests the solution is what it always is, jobs.

Black leadership does have the benefit of helping communities feel they are represented and understood. But the political leadership necessary to bring jobs is what's needed now more than representation.

 

[davegolf]

To Dave, anything Obama says is "hatred."

Not "anything" he says just the divisive and class warfare ones.

 

[Ladoga]

Congress doesn't have the right to pass legislation defining the limits of the 1st Amendment. Only the courts can do that. And at any rate, this seems to fall squarely within the states' police power.

Look at you, Dave, supporting federal overreach! Odd day...

Your Freudian slip is showing. Courts have power to pass legislation? Spoken like a true extreme anti-Constitutionalist.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Your Freudian slip is showing. Courts have power to pass legislation? Spoken like a true extreme anti-Constitutionalist.

Ha! I knew you'd catch that and have a cow. Seriously, when I posted it, I thought "Ladoga isn't gonna like that."

Don't always have time to phrase things properly on a phone. I'm sure you knew what I meant.

 

[mjvcaj]

Imagine you've been elected to the office of Mayor of Baltimore. What do you do to get people to begin to change their behavior?

The reality is Black flight out of those neighborhoods for families who have the means. And that suggests the solution is what it always is, jobs.

Black leadership does have the benefit of helping communities feel they are represented and understood. But the political leadership necessary to bring jobs is what's needed now more than representation.

How do better jobs change the current state? If good jobs are the solution, you will see more flight out of those neighborhoods.

 

[DrHoops]

and all major cites are controlled by democrats and mostly minority leadership.

According to a NBC/Wall Street Journal polls 96% of Americans are braced for summer of race riots.

"Americans are bracing for a summer of racial disturbances around the country, such as those that have wracked Baltimore, with African Americans and whites deeply divided about why the urban violence has occurred, a new Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll has found.

A resounding 96% of adults surveyed said it was likely there would be additional racial disturbances this summer, a signal that Americans believe Baltimore’s recent problems aren’t a local phenomenon but instead are symptomatic of broader national problems."

Shouldn't those in leadership take a stand on the bloody pulpit and stop this in its tracks. I see the threat of this unrest as a top priority - do you - or am I concerned about nothing as I have been accused in the past.

I agree. Something needs to be done to stop these rogue cops! Snapping an unarmed man's spine, choking someone to death, etc. lead to riots. I hope President Obama and AG Lynch take a tough stand.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

You're right. Let's start with how the police treat minorities overall.


Oh now he's preaching hatred. Ok Dave. Take your meds and relax. We'll have a white person in the White House soon enough. I can't guarantee it will be a southern white Christian male, but odds are the person will be white, so that's gotta count for something. You've managed to stay alive and keep your guns for seven years now, I'm sure you'll be alright just a little while longer.

Imagine you've been elected to the office of Mayor of Baltimore. What do you do to get people to begin to change their behavior?

The reality is Black flight out of those neighborhoods for families who have the means. And that suggests the solution is what it always is, jobs.

Black leadership does have the benefit of helping communities feel they are represented and understood. But the political leadership necessary to bring jobs is what's needed now more than representation.

Jobs schmobs

You sound like our state department when it said we can fix the Middle East with more economic opportunity and jobs.

Here's the problem. the jobs aren't in the inner city because there is no supply of labor to do those jobs. Why is that? Poor education. Poor family support/structure. Politicians treating them like victims and voting blocks instead of people. We have lots of skilled labor job openings in the US for machinists, tool and die makers, I.T. workers and more. I don't think I'm too far off by saying less than 5% of the black inner city young people are qualified to do those jobs.

The Denver post ran a story in the last week about a Mexican immigrant (don't know if he is legal or illegal) making his own job by buying and ice cream push cart and pushing it around Denver neighborhoods selling ice cream. He was robbed twice--by black kids. The second time he didn't have much cash so they took his day's supply of ice cream and threw it in the gutter. My question is this. The chances of seeing a black young man do what the Mexican did for a job is nil. If a black young man did that, he would probably be bullied and laughed out of the 'hood. Why is that? When you can answer that question, you'll have a clue.

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

You know all your post in this thread amount to blatant accusations of racism because someone dares to point to simply facts. It appears on this topic of discussion and others in the past that anyone who might disagree with your position or opinion is a racist. Personally I think Obama is an empty suit but it has nothing to do with his skin color. I think Hillary would make a terrible president and not because of her skin color either. Truth be known I didn't thing much of the Bush admin either and he is and old white guy and a Republican.

CO made some excellent points in this thread and was spot on. One of the comments he made was: "It is becoming obvious that in some cases intentionally, and in other cases as a by-product of politics, racial tensions are exploited to benefit the exploiters by maintaining their power and influence and maybe also their electability."

In line with the above thought, today Chris Wallace interviewed MD Democratic Rep Donna Edwards and her comments illustrate a large part of the problem. Wallace pointed out the simple fact that Baltimore has been governed by Democrats and liberal policies for decades and during the interview Edwards placed part of the blame on the Republican Governor Larry Hogan who has been the Governor since Jan of this year. Wow! In general her position and comments illustrate the point CO was making. Liberal policies of treating blacks as victims and thinking more money is always the answer is a huge part of the problem. Education was an element of the discussion. And the exploiters and many of them are in public offices do in fact create and amplify racial tensions to keep themselves in power. This is a huge part of all our problems....politics, power, and keeping their voting block intact.

Conservatives don't feel that blacks are lazy and free loaders as you often imply and did in this thread. The comment stating why can't we all be white is simply BS and throwing the racism charges at anyone pointing out the simple facts is BS as well. We do in fact need to quit treating blacks as victims because of their skin color. Those with similar attitudes of yours are a huge part of the problems. They do create racial tension when race has nothing to do with it.

Mjvcaj commented: "Hard to argue this is a racist issue given the involvement in black officers and some of the detail behind past incidents. Perhaps it is a race issue, but by definition, it is not a racism issue."

He to is correct.

In closing I have pasted some simple facts I spotted about Baltimore. They have nothing to do with race or my personal opinions on race. Just some facts that are to often ignored. Frankly not often ignored but in general always ignored and certainly by our current admin. It's apparent that policies aren't working and haven't for a long time. This points tend to illustrate that the problems aren't a result of race so much and a lot to do with government policies, initiatives, education, and management.

Do conservatives have all the answers....no they don't but it would be hard to do worse. Perhaps if all sides of the political spectrum would realize the true heart of the problems and work together to solve them some positive results could be achieved. A lot could be accomplished if those in power quit treating blacks as victims and as voting blocks and instead tackled the problems with reforms etc we could see some very positive results. And more importantly quit supporting the race hustlers and exploiters.

●Citizens of this metropolis have not elected a Republican as mayor since 1963, before the War on Poverty began. That mayor’s 4 year term is the only interruption in Democrat rule since 1947. They have had Democrat control for 64 of the last 68 years, and sole control for the last 48 years straight.

●Their mayor is black. ●Their previous mayor, Sheila Dixon, was black. ●She was convicted of embezzlement in 2010 and couldn’t finish her term. They had a white mayor (current Democratic Presidential hopeful Martin O’Malley) for eight years. ●The mayor before him was black.

●Their City Council consists of 15 members. ●All fifteen are Democrats. ●The Council President is black.

●Democrats have had control of legislation in Baltimore for the last 50 years. ●Every program, policy, initiative, or school curriculum that exists in Baltimore was enacted by liberal Democrats.

●The Police Commissioner is black. ●Approximately 50% of the police force is black.

●The School Superintendent is black, along with the School Board. The district has an annual budget of $1.32 billion to teach 84,000 kids. The Baltimore school system ranks second among the nation’s 100 largest school districts in how much it spent per pupil at $15,700 per student. Only NYC spends more.

●Only two thirds of students graduate high school, despite this high level of spending.

The average SAT scores of Baltimore City public school students are: 379 in Reading; 376 in Math; 381 in Writing. These are the scores of the best of the best in Baltimore schools who actually think they should get into college. The average scores in the country, which still suck, are around 500. Students with these scores have about a 15% chance of graduating college. This is the Return on Investment (ROI) you get after spending $188,000 per student over their 12 year academic career.

●The population of Baltimore is 623,000 and 63% are black. Median household income is $41,000, with 24% living below the poverty line. The home ownership rate is 48%. The percentage of college graduates is 27%.

The population was 950,000 in 1950, so it has fallen by 35% in the last 65 years. The population was 24% black in 1950. ●Decades of liberal Democrat policies drove most of the white population out of the city.

●Baltimore’s violent crime rate is 370% higher than the U.S. rate. ●They have over 200 murders, 300 rapes, 3,600 robberies, 4,600 assaults, 7,800 burglaries, and 22,000 thefts per year. ●These are all 2 to 4 times the U.S. averages per 100,000 people.

●Over 35% of all Baltimore residents get food stamps. ●Over 85% of the kids get free breakfasts and lunches at school. ●More than 60% of Baltimore residents are receiving some form of government assistance.

●Baltimore’s welfare paradise is paid for by outrageously high taxes. It’s income tax rate of 3.2% is on top of the state rate of 4.75%. ●It’s property tax rate is more than double the other counties in Maryland. The sales tax rate is 6%. Corporations pay an income tax rate of 8.25%.

●The percentage of out of wedlock births to black women in Baltimore exceeds 72%. ●Baltimore and Detroit are the two cities with populations over 600,000 with the highest percentage of single parent households – 59% to 61%.

●The reported unemployment rate for Baltimore is 8.2%, one of the highest in the country. ●In reality, 42% of the working age population is not working. ■Young black men between the ages of 20 and 24 have a reported unemployment rate of 37%. ■But in reality, it is north of 60%. The number of employees in 1990 totaled 475,000. Today they total 365,000, down 23%

"Treating" blacks as victims because of their skin color? I think you mean "making" black people victims because of their skin color.

 

[davegolf]

Your Freudian slip is showing. Courts have power to pass legislation? Spoken like a true extreme anti-Constitutionalist.

I don't think it is overreach to do everything possible to stop the rioting, destruction of property and personal injuries caused by the rioters.

 

[Ladoga]

Ha! I knew you'd catch that and have a cow. Seriously, when I posted it, I thought "Ladoga isn't gonna like that."

Don't always have time to phrase things properly on a phone. I'm sure you knew what I meant.

You're sure? I am afraid what you meant is what you said. Typical of liberals, they want the courts to legislate as they have no chance at all of enacting their pet desires via legislative enactment or Constitutional amendment. I'm afraid your slip is what liberals actually believe should be done and the only way liberalism can achieve the policy goals they espouse. Well, there is that other wretched avenue - legislation by executive order. Another liberal favorite.

 

[bawlmer]

If a black young man did that, he would probably be bullied and laughed out of the 'hood. Why is that? When you can answer that question, you'll have a clue.

Thankfully, I can honestly say I reject your hypothesis and therefore avoid your conclusion that black people hate hard work.

Do you really think there are no kids in northwest Baltimore walking through neighborhoods on their way to or from work wearing uniforms signifying they're working at menial jobs?

And I thought you would support jobs. So what is the Republican solution for Baltimore?

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Thankfully, I can honestly say I reject your hypothesis and therefore avoid your conclusion that black people hate hard work.

Do you really think there are no kids in northwest Baltimore walking through neighborhoods on their way to or from work wearing uniforms signifying they're working at menial jobs?

And I thought you would support jobs. So what is the Republican solution for Baltimore?

Good grief

I didn't say black people hate hard work. Nor did I say there are no kids who want to work. You are just stupidly picking at generalities that apply in all large cities for the sole purposes of advancing your own generalities. Yeah, I do support jobs. But your posts about jobs are just more meaningless banality. You need to go deeper.

There are many social forces present that inhibit good jobs in a number of different ways in the cities. As I watched the riots in Ferguson, New York, and now Baltimore, I asked my stoker how many Ben Carson's are in those mobs who might never live to adulthood let alone have a good job. The horrendous drop-out rates, the stigma attached to working for the MAN, an the family failure puts downward pressure on our entire economy, not just on the minority communities in particular.

 

[bawlmer]

stupidly picking at generalities that apply in all large cities for the sole purposes of advancing your own generalities.

Well put. Though I'll let the readers decide to whom it applies.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

You're sure? I am afraid what you meant is what you said. Typical of liberals, they want the courts to legislate as they have no chance at all of enacting their pet desires via legislative enactment or Constitutional amendment. I'm afraid your slip is what liberals actually believe should be done and the only way liberalism can achieve the policy goals they espouse. Well, there is that other wretched avenue - legislation by executive order. Another liberal favorite.

Sigh....

Please don't get caught up in this nonsense. Defining the scope of the first amendment IS the job of the courts. That's no liberal fantasy. That's the constitution.

 

[Cajun54]

"Treating" blacks as victims because of their skin color? I think you mean "making" black people victims because of their skin color.

Another typical racist charge made by you. People with the attitude you so often display here regarding topics of this nature are in fact part of the problem. Amplify your opinion by many thousands and the result is the problems we face currently. Politicians and those in power "treat" them as a voting block and in doing so they have to create the victim identity. Creating the welfare paradise in Baltimore and other large inner cities isn't helping them in reality. It breeds a culture that isn't helping. ●Over 35% of all Baltimore residents get food stamps. ●Over 85% of the kids get free breakfasts and lunches at school. ●More than 60% of Baltimore residents are receiving some form of government assistance.

All this assistance, policies, initiatives etc in Baltimore isn't working and the liberal solution of throwing more money at it isn't the answer. ●Democrats have had control of legislation in Baltimore for the last 50 years. ●Every program, policy, initiative, or school curriculum that exists in Baltimore was enacted by liberal Democrats. All of this and employment sucks, the education sucks, crime is out of control, the family structure almost nonexistent and on and on.

●The School Superintendent is black, along with the School Board. The district has an annual budget of $1.32 billion to teach 84,000 kids. The Baltimore school system ranks second among the nation’s 100 largest school districts in how much it spent per pupil at $15,700 per student. Only NYC spends more.

●Only two thirds of students graduate high school, despite this high level of spending.

The average SAT scores of Baltimore City public school students are: 379 in Reading; 376 in Math; 381 in Writing. These are the scores of the best of the best in Baltimore schools who actually think they should get into college. The average scores in the country, which still suck, are around 500. Students with these scores have about a 15% chance of graduating college. This is the Return on Investment (ROI) you get after spending $188,000 per student over their 12 year academic career.

Proofs in the puddin'. It isn't working. Why the blacks keep putting liberals in office when in reality their policies hurt them and deny them opportunities is beyond me. They keep throwing money at them and creating a welfare paradise and push the victim agenda to keep them voting in their direction without tackling and working on solutions that would actually improve their lives and futures.

 

[meridian]

Not "anything" he says just the divisive and class warfare ones.

Sorry, not anything. I meant, and you meant as well, everything.

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

Another typical racist charge made by you. People with the attitude you so often display here regarding topics of this nature are in fact part of the problem. Amplify your opinion by many thousands and the result is the problems we face currently. Politicians and those in power "treat" them as a voting block and in doing so they have to create the victim identity. Creating the welfare paradise in Baltimore and other large inner cities isn't helping them in reality. It breeds a culture that isn't helping. ●Over 35% of all Baltimore residents get food stamps. ●Over 85% of the kids get free breakfasts and lunches at school. ●More than 60% of Baltimore residents are receiving some form of government assistance.

All this assistance, policies, initiatives etc in Baltimore isn't working and the liberal solution of throwing more money at it isn't the answer. ●Democrats have had control of legislation in Baltimore for the last 50 years. ●Every program, policy, initiative, or school curriculum that exists in Baltimore was enacted by liberal Democrats. All of this and employment sucks, the education sucks, crime is out of control, the family structure almost nonexistent and on and on.

●The School Superintendent is black, along with the School Board. The district has an annual budget of $1.32 billion to teach 84,000 kids. The Baltimore school system ranks second among the nation’s 100 largest school districts in how much it spent per pupil at $15,700 per student. Only NYC spends more.

●Only two thirds of students graduate high school, despite this high level of spending.

The average SAT scores of Baltimore City public school students are: 379 in Reading; 376 in Math; 381 in Writing. These are the scores of the best of the best in Baltimore schools who actually think they should get into college. The average scores in the country, which still suck, are around 500. Students with these scores have about a 15% chance of graduating college. This is the Return on Investment (ROI) you get after spending $188,000 per student over their 12 year academic career.

Proofs in the puddin'. It isn't working. Why the blacks keep putting liberals in office when in reality their policies hurt them and deny them opportunities is beyond me. They keep throwing money at them and creating a welfare paradise and push the victim agenda to keep them voting in their direction without tackling and working on solutions that would actually improve their lives and futures.

Don't forget to clean that sheet.

Another typical racist charge made by you. People with the attitude you so often display here regarding topics of this nature are in fact part of the problem. Amplify your opinion by many thousands and the result is the problems we face currently. Politicians and those in power "treat" them as a voting block and in doing so they have to create the victim identity. Creating the welfare paradise in Baltimore and other large inner cities isn't helping them in reality. It breeds a culture that isn't helping. ●Over 35% of all Baltimore residents get food stamps. ●Over 85% of the kids get free breakfasts and lunches at school. ●More than 60% of Baltimore residents are receiving some form of government assistance.

All this assistance, policies, initiatives etc in Baltimore isn't working and the liberal solution of throwing more money at it isn't the answer. ●Democrats have had control of legislation in Baltimore for the last 50 years. ●Every program, policy, initiative, or school curriculum that exists in Baltimore was enacted by liberal Democrats. All of this and employment sucks, the education sucks, crime is out of control, the family structure almost nonexistent and on and on.

●The School Superintendent is black, along with the School Board. The district has an annual budget of $1.32 billion to teach 84,000 kids. The Baltimore school system ranks second among the nation’s 100 largest school districts in how much it spent per pupil at $15,700 per student. Only NYC spends more.

●Only two thirds of students graduate high school, despite this high level of spending.

The average SAT scores of Baltimore City public school students are: 379 in Reading; 376 in Math; 381 in Writing. These are the scores of the best of the best in Baltimore schools who actually think they should get into college. The average scores in the country, which still suck, are around 500. Students with these scores have about a 15% chance of graduating college. This is the Return on Investment (ROI) you get after spending $188,000 per student over their 12 year academic career.

Proofs in the puddin'. It isn't working. Why the blacks keep putting liberals in office when in reality their policies hurt them and deny them opportunities is beyond me. They keep throwing money at them and creating a welfare paradise and push the victim agenda to keep them voting in their direction without tackling and working on solutions that would actually improve their lives and futures.

You're absolutely right. The proof's in the puddin'. How else do explain that the states most "dependent" on the gubment titty are GOP run states? You can pick and choose cities. I can pick and choose entire states. Looks like neither republicans nor democrats know what the f*ck they're doing, which is why I don't adhere to either party. However I do believe republicans are slightly more insane.

 

[DrHoops]

Don't forget to clean that sheet.


You're absolutely right. The proof's in the puddin'. How else do explain that the states most "dependent" on the gubment titty are GOP run states? You can pick and choose cities. I can pick and choose entire states. Looks like neither republicans nor democrats know what the f*ck they're doing, which is why I don't adhere to either party. However I do believe republicans are slightly more insane.

When the Governor of Texas activates the State Guard to monitor th U.S. Military because he fears they may invade Texas and instutute martial law and a bunch of mainstream Repubicans agree with him, I'd say the Republican Party is quite a bit more insane. In fact, it's not even close. Benghazi!!! Is another prime example.

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

When the Governor of Texas activates the State Guard to monitor th U.S. Military because he fears they may invade Texas and instutute martial law and a bunch of mainstream Repubicans agree with him, I'd say the Republican Party is quite a bit more insane. In fact, it's not even close. Benghazi!!! Is another prime example.

It's sad that those are considered "mainstream" republicans.

 

[Cajun54]

Don't forget to clean that sheet.


You're absolutely right. The proof's in the puddin'. How else do explain that the states most "dependent" on the gubment titty are GOP run states? You can pick and choose cities. I can pick and choose entire states. Looks like neither republicans nor democrats know what the f*ck they're doing, which is why I don't adhere to either party. However I do believe republicans are slightly more insane.

Your are correct about one thing and that being that neither party knows what to do and in general a large part of what they do is in their own interest of retaining power. In the purest sense you are correct about the economy and the political parties in power but having said that the difference between average economic growth when Democrats controlled Congress and when Republicans controlled Congress is negligible. And yes Pub states do have more on the gov titty as you suggest but in reality this fact is in part due to large population centers and inner cities etc controlled by Democrats within the states with Republican admins such as in the case of Baltimore in Maryland or Detroit in Michigan......

But as you pointed out neither party has much going for it in the positive results category related to problems related to the topic of this whole thread for one. Like you I try to vote for the best person for the job or in my opinion anyway and I do cross party lines to vote but I consider myself conservative in most areas.

 

[hoot1]

Your are correct about one thing and that being that neither party knows what to do and in general a large part of what they do is in their own interest of retaining power.

It is hard to find a consensus on a solution when all sides see different causes while at the same time trying to appeal to constituencies which come from completely backgrounds.

For example, one side sees economic inequality due to a lack of jobs, and the other side thinks government has already wasted way too much money on wrongheaded policies. One side sees over aggressive law enforcement, and the other side sees thugs who don't respect the police.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

It is hard to find a consensus on a solution when all sides see different causes while at the same time trying to appeal to constituencies which come from completely backgrounds.

For example, one side sees economic inequality due to a lack of jobs, and the other side thinks government has already wasted way too much money on wrongheaded policies. One side sees over aggressive law enforcement, and the other side sees thugs who don't respect the police.

That's not just seeing different causes; it's seeing different problems.

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

Your are correct about one thing and that being that neither party knows what to do and in general a large part of what they do is in their own interest of retaining power. In the purest sense you are correct about the economy and the political parties in power but having said that the difference between average economic growth when Democrats controlled Congress and when Republicans controlled Congress is negligible. And yes Pub states do have more on the gov titty as you suggest but in reality this fact is in part due to large population centers and inner cities etc controlled by Democrats within the states with Republican admins such as in the case of Baltimore in Maryland or Detroit in Michigan......

But as you pointed out neither party has much going for it in the positive results category related to problems related to the topic of this whole thread for one. Like you I try to vote for the best person for the job or in my opinion anyway and I do cross party lines to vote but I consider myself conservative in most areas.

The only real difference between democrats and republicans is who they give money/breaks to. Democrats by and large give money to programs that help poorer people and/or people going through rough patches, like unemployment insurance.

Republicans want to give money/breaks to millionaires and billionaires while spouting that this will somehow help poor people. Corporate welfare is still welfare and poor people end up picking up the tab with things like austerity.

Both parties spend ungodly amounts of money, the difference is where it goes.

 

[Rusty G]

The only real difference between democrats and republicans is who they give money/breaks to. Democrats by and large give money to programs that help poorer people and/or people going through rough patches, like unemployment insurance.

Republicans want to give money/breaks to millionaires and billionaires while spouting that this will somehow help poor people. Corporate welfare is still welfare and poor people end up picking up the tab with things like austerity.

Both parties spend ungodly amounts of money, the difference is where it goes.

I think it's worse than that. We have the "bread and circus" component which is close to what you state. Pander to constituencies with lots of noise signifying nothing, while taking care of me. Both sides are beholden to folks with money, both sides pander to Wall Street and the military-industrial complex, both sides aspire to be counted among the elite, do everything they can to join that minority club, and then to protect the membership once they're inside.

 

[iubud]

and all major cites are controlled by democrats and mostly minority leadership.

According to a NBC/Wall Street Journal polls 96% of Americans are braced for summer of race riots.

"Americans are bracing for a summer of racial disturbances around the country, such as those that have wracked Baltimore, with African Americans and whites deeply divided about why the urban violence has occurred, a new Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll has found.

A resounding 96% of adults surveyed said it was likely there would be additional racial disturbances this summer, a signal that Americans believe Baltimore’s recent problems aren’t a local phenomenon but instead are symptomatic of broader national problems."

Shouldn't those in leadership take a stand on the bloody pulpit and stop this in its tracks. I see the threat of this unrest as a top priority - do you - or am I concerned about nothing as I have been accused in the past.

I am interested in what black police officers think about the police treatment of black people in Baltimore. 3 of the 6 officers charged in Baltimore were black. That reflects the Baltimore police force being 46% black and 41% white. Why is this a police race issue?

If a local black police chief, mayor DA, and council can't prevent police vs black issues, how is the President and national leaders going to change attitudes?

Being a white male from the suburbs, I am trying to learn what goes into starting the demonstrations and riots. This is what a respected person or group of people need preach to these areas:

1. Stop black on black crime. Don't give the police any reason to come to their area and get out of their cars.
2: When police do investigate, cooperate and help get the bad people off the streets.
3. When we get the bad people off the streets, our courts need to keep the violent offenders and people with violent pasts in jail.

 

[Harrell]

Cajun54: In a word, this is complicated. Baltimore's poor Black neighborhoods are troubled and need a police presence. No one seriously expected Black leadership to resolve the issues, and it hasn't.

What's unfortunate and misguided is the number of Whites who dismiss the whole episode by saying it wouldn't have occurred if Gray didn't run from the police.

Wow.
Why would no one expect any type of leadership to solve a problem? What is their purpose then?
Have you ever run from the police? What do people think is going to happen if you run from the police, they tell you jokes until you agree to be handcuffed? You would be taken down and that becomes your issue as a runner from the police.
Maybe your post is in jest and I missed it.

 

[Harrell]

Jobs schmobs

You sound like our state department when it said we can fix the Middle East with more economic opportunity and jobs.

Here's the problem. the jobs aren't in the inner city because there is no supply of labor to do those jobs. Why is that? Poor education. Poor family support/structure. Politicians treating them like victims and voting blocks instead of people. We have lots of skilled labor job openings in the US for machinists, tool and die makers, I.T. workers and more. I don't think I'm too far off by saying less than 5% of the black inner city young people are qualified to do those jobs.

The Denver post ran a story in the last week about a Mexican immigrant (don't know if he is legal or illegal) making his own job by buying and ice cream push cart and pushing it around Denver neighborhoods selling ice cream. He was robbed twice--by black kids. The second time he didn't have much cash so they took his day's supply of ice cream and threw it in the gutter. My question is this. The chances of seeing a black young man do what the Mexican did for a job is nil. If a black young man did that, he would probably be bullied and laughed out of the 'hood. Why is that? When you can answer that question, you'll have a clue.

I started to post a rant about this, stopped, and cut to the main points. This entire post is the result that government and police have to deal with, after the fact. If this is an African American thing, how and when does it change? It starts from the top down, and no I do not mean the President, but President Obama could help a lot. We can all sit and post articles and stats about this and that, but they don't mean anything because everyone is going to post from one biased view or another. How many of you actually work with youth? How many of you actually know what they talk about or are influenced by? From someone who is a high school teacher who deals with students, their problems, answers their questions, and sees their entire spectrum, they get no help from any political or entertainment figures!
1. What political figure or entertainment figure tells the African American youth to value education?
2. What political figure or entertainment figure tells the African American youth that they need to get married and then have children?
3. What political figure or entertainment figure tells the African American youth that government assistance should only be a temporary fix?
4. What political figure or entertainment figure tells the African American youth to get married and then have children?

And before anyone throws a stat or report at me, know that I have so many examples of REAL life from these kids, conversations and observations that you too can see if you become a teacher or go to a school and mentor a student, you will see too. I highly suggest that anyone that wants real change in ALL kids lives, black, white, or whatever, you step in a school and see what is really going on.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

The fallacy of personal experience

Without belittling your point (which I mostly agree with) there are lots of people with experience of different kinds of troubled kids. I supervised attorneys who represented child protection services in abuse and neglect cases. Kids < 18 were in that system. While the community I worked in didn't have a lot of racial problems, I'd say the issues were similar in many respects. Take away alcohol and drugs (specifically meth) and we'd fix a lot of problems with kids and the community.

Questions for you. Michelle Obama recently suggested that poor black kids are not welcome in many art and other museums in the larger cities. I think that is patently untrue. I also believe that she believes it is true as do millions of kids and adults from the inner cities. I think this attitude stems from what kids are taught in school. There are other examples of similar circumstances. Is there too focus on our horrible racial past and today's "white oppression"? Does this perpetuate racial tension and dysfunction?

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

The fallacy of personal experience

Without belittling your point (which I mostly agree with) there are lots of people with experience of different kinds of troubled kids. I supervised attorneys who represented child protection services in abuse and neglect cases. Kids < 18 were in that system. While the community I worked in didn't have a lot of racial problems, I'd say the issues were similar in many respects. Take away alcohol and drugs (specifically meth) and we'd fix a lot of problems with kids and the community.

Questions for you. Michelle Obama recently suggested that poor black kids are not welcome in many art and other museums in the larger cities. I think that is patently untrue. I also believe that she believes it is true as do millions of kids and adults from the inner cities. I think this attitude stems from what kids are taught in school. There are other examples of similar circumstances. Is there too focus on our horrible racial past and today's "white oppression"? Does this perpetuate racial tension and dysfunction?

Why are we reliving this thread?

Your first paragraph is spot-on.

Your second paragraph is nuts.

The problem doesn't have anything to do with the study of "white oppression." We should study history. It's important to examine our past, even the bad parts. But that's not why kids don't go to museums.

Kids don't go to museums because schools no longer expend the resources to take them to museums. Or ballets. Or whatever. Whether it's a lack of funding or poor administration, it doesn't happen as much. If black kids are affected more, it's probably not a race issue, but simply the fact that poor inner city kids, who are disproportionately black, are less likely to have alternative routes to these activities if the schools don't step up. If Canterbury School in SW Fort Wayne decided it couldn't afford a music program (they wouldn't), there would be plenty of rich parents who would step up and make sure it was funded. If Waite High School in east Toledo shut down the music program, the alternative resources to save it wouldn't exist.

Some of it is probably a culture thing - and yes, here race does play a role, as black parents might be less inclined to make a special trip with their kids to a museum showing off all that white people art. Some of it is certainly economic; the opportunities to engage in these types of activities aren't there as often for single-parent households and households where both parents work.

But whatever the causes, this is a serious problem that needs to be fixed. We need to get our kids to museums, theaters, zoos and the like. A lot of our problems would be solved, both black and white, if we put some damn effort into having our children engage the arts and sciences on a personal level.

And yes, I realize you were only claiming that the "white oppression" narrative is only to be blamed for the attitude, and not the (lack of) activity, but the connection is clear, or it's a non sequitur. It's a real problem that kids don't engage in these activities, and we need to do something about it.

Every time a school cuts its music program so it can afford to keep football, God cries a little.

 

[toastedbread]

The fallacy of personal experience

Without belittling your point (which I mostly agree with) there are lots of people with experience of different kinds of troubled kids. I supervised attorneys who represented child protection services in abuse and neglect cases. Kids < 18 were in that system. While the community I worked in didn't have a lot of racial problems, I'd say the issues were similar in many respects. Take away alcohol and drugs (specifically meth) and we'd fix a lot of problems with kids and the community.

Questions for you. Michelle Obama recently suggested that poor black kids are not welcome in many art and other museums in the larger cities. I think that is patently untrue. I also believe that she believes it is true as do millions of kids and adults from the inner cities. I think this attitude stems from what kids are taught in school. There are other examples of similar circumstances. Is there too focus on our horrible racial past and today's "white oppression"? Does this perpetuate racial tension and dysfunction?

Coh:
I'm starting to become afraid that various cultures in this country are simply incompatible. Call it a "clash of culture" instead of a clash of civilizations. The Black/African American culture is highly differentiated from the Western/European culture. Same with the Hispanic culture. There are issues of identity in this country. France is a good example of when this goes wrong. I fear our melting pot is beginning to separate.

 

[toastedbread]

Why are we reliving this thread?

Your first paragraph is spot-on.

Your second paragraph is nuts.

The problem doesn't have anything to do with the study of "white oppression." We should study history. It's important to examine our past, even the bad parts. But that's not why kids don't go to museums.

Kids don't go to museums because schools no longer expend the resources to take them to museums. Or ballets. Or whatever. Whether it's a lack of funding or poor administration, it doesn't happen as much. If black kids are affected more, it's probably not a race issue, but simply the fact that poor inner city kids, who are disproportionately black, are less likely to have alternative routes to these activities if the schools don't step up. If Canterbury School in SW Fort Wayne decided it couldn't afford a music program (they wouldn't), there would be plenty of rich parents who would step up and make sure it was funded. If Waite High School in east Toledo shut down the music program, the alternative resources to save it wouldn't exist.

Some of it is probably a culture thing - and yes, here race does play a role, as black parents might be less inclined to make a special trip with their kids to a museum showing off all that white people art. Some of it is certainly economic; the opportunities to engage in these types of activities aren't there as often for single-parent households and households where both parents work.

But whatever the causes, this is a serious problem that needs to be fixed. We need to get our kids to museums, theaters, zoos and the like. A lot of our problems would be solved, both black and white, if we put some damn effort into having our children engage the arts and sciences on a personal level.

And yes, I realize you were only claiming that the "white oppression" narrative is only to be blamed for the attitude, and not the (lack of) activity, but the connection is clear, or it's a non sequitur. It's a real problem that kids don't engage in these activities, and we need to do something about it.

Every time a school cuts its music program so it can afford to keep football, God cries a little.

I agree with you re: Music and arts... however some cultures place more emphasis on sport vs. academics. Also, the downfall of parenting is a problem imo. Kids need 2 supportive parents, no matter sexual orientation.

Another issue I have is those claiming that if we simply stop locking people up there will be more parents to parent... if they are using dope and getting locked up for dope, I have to question what kind of positive impact they may have on their kids. Releasing people from jail does not necessarily make them more productive or positive individuals.

 

[toastedbread]

Why are we reliving this thread?

Your first paragraph is spot-on.

Your second paragraph is nuts.

The problem doesn't have anything to do with the study of "white oppression." We should study history. It's important to examine our past, even the bad parts. But that's not why kids don't go to museums.

Kids don't go to museums because schools no longer expend the resources to take them to museums. Or ballets. Or whatever. Whether it's a lack of funding or poor administration, it doesn't happen as much. If black kids are affected more, it's probably not a race issue, but simply the fact that poor inner city kids, who are disproportionately black, are less likely to have alternative routes to these activities if the schools don't step up. If Canterbury School in SW Fort Wayne decided it couldn't afford a music program (they wouldn't), there would be plenty of rich parents who would step up and make sure it was funded. If Waite High School in east Toledo shut down the music program, the alternative resources to save it wouldn't exist.

Some of it is probably a culture thing - and yes, here race does play a role, as black parents might be less inclined to make a special trip with their kids to a museum showing off all that white people art. Some of it is certainly economic; the opportunities to engage in these types of activities aren't there as often for single-parent households and households where both parents work.

But whatever the causes, this is a serious problem that needs to be fixed. We need to get our kids to museums, theaters, zoos and the like. A lot of our problems would be solved, both black and white, if we put some damn effort into having our children engage the arts and sciences on a personal level.

And yes, I realize you were only claiming that the "white oppression" narrative is only to be blamed for the attitude, and not the (lack of) activity, but the connection is clear, or it's a non sequitur. It's a real problem that kids don't engage in these activities, and we need to do something about it.

Every time a school cuts its music program so it can afford to keep football, God cries a little.

Another point... while this may not be positive with social conservatives, I think abortion has played a crucial role in preventing more single parent households. I would also like to potentially see a government program of voluntary sterilizations in exchange for cash. That maybe one way to tackle the welfare issue.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

I agree with you re: Music and arts... however some cultures place more emphasis on sport vs. academics. Also, the downfall of parenting is a problem imo. Kids need 2 supportive parents, no matter sexual orientation.

Another issue I have is those claiming that if we simply stop locking people up there will be more parents to parent... if they are using dope and getting locked up for dope, I have to question what kind of positive impact they may have on their kids. Releasing people from jail does not necessarily make them more productive or positive individuals.

I reject the assumption that someone who smokes pot is necessarily a bad influence. And so long as we don't lock up people for being drunks, it's a dumb argument, anyway.

In my opinion, prisons should be reserved for people who are a danger to society. They shouldn't be used to selectively choose which bad influences we are going to separate from children.

I know a lot of people who did very well in life with one parent. But I tend to agree that two parents are better. But, I also think that having two parents each working 50 hours a week is just as bad as having one parent. It would be different if parents were working with their children, say on a farm or in a family-owned shop. But that's just not the norm, anymore.

 

[toastedbread]

I reject the assumption that someone who smokes pot is necessarily a bad influence. And so long as we don't lock up people for being drunks, it's a dumb argument, anyway.

In my opinion, prisons should be reserved for people who are a danger to society. They shouldn't be used to selectively choose which bad influences we are going to separate from children.

I know a lot of people who did very well in life with one parent. But I tend to agree that two parents are better. But, I also think that having two parents each working 50 hours a week is just as bad as having one parent. It would be different if parents were working with their children, say on a farm or in a family-owned shop. But that's just not the norm, anymore.

I'm not talking about pot, but rather serious dope like meth and heroine. I don't see them being better parents if they are suddenly released.

And about pot, there is a huge difference between a guy who lights up a joint socially and someone who is chronic smoking and dealing, and ignoring their kids.

Sure, but if you are poor it sure helps having 2 stable parents and income.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Another point... while this may not be positive with social conservatives, I think abortion has played a crucial role in preventing more single parent households. I would also like to potentially see a government program of voluntary sterilizations in exchange for cash. That maybe one way to tackle the welfare issue.

Abortion is a tough one. First of all, most opposition to abortion isn't based on the socioeconomic effects of unwanted children. It's based on whether or not an unborn person has a right to become a born person.

Second, and unrelated, but still important, I think, is that Americans have about 1.2 million abortions per year. In the United States, if you are born, you have a roughly 99% chance of reaching your 21st birthday. That's almost 1.2 million future potentially productive adults being removed from society each year. We fill that hole with immigrants, which is fine, if you ask me. But a lot of the people who are opposed to abortion are also not very friendly to immigrants.

 

[toastedbread]

Abortion is a tough one. First of all, most opposition to abortion isn't based on the socioeconomic effects of unwanted children. It's based on whether or not an unborn person has a right to become a born person.

Second, and unrelated, but still important, I think, is that Americans have about 1.2 million abortions per year. In the United States, if you are born, you have a roughly 99% chance of reaching your 21st birthday. That's almost 1.2 million future potentially productive adults being removed from society each year. We fill that hole with immigrants, which is fine, if you ask me. But a lot of the people who are opposed to abortion are also not very friendly to immigrants.

I'm fine with immigrants. In my perfect world there would be no borders. They are immoral and illegal. We are all one people.

Well this globe is overpopulated imo. I think the effects to this planet are obvious.