Banezak to attend Manning passing academy this summer!
https://www.si.com/college/indiana/...lak-to-participate-in-manning-passing-academy
https://www.si.com/college/indiana/...lak-to-participate-in-manning-passing-academy
Tuttle and Bazelak quarterback battle
- Thread starter KevinVera
- Start date
Brohm has fired two DCs while at PU, I don't keep up on their coaching staff so there may be more examples of hiring people Brohm had to fire. We get it, you hate coach Allen and love coach Brohm.
If you could remove your crimson shades for just a moment….there is zero comparison between the two.
Brohm was a great ROI for them.
He just had a 9 win season. The guy has 2 bowl wins. He gave Ohio State it’s only loss of the year in 2018 and knocked them out of the playoffs convincingly. Beat Iowa multiple seasons. Lands elite players in this state. Literally started from a dumpster fire.
That speculation on the Bucket loss for 2020 is pure speculation. Allen turned around and got schooled by Ole Miss a few weeks later. Anything could happen in that game.
As an IU fan, if I had a choice, I would have hired Brohm in a heartbeat. He had years as a head coach. Allen had never been a head coach at the college level.
I stand by my prediction that Allen will not beat Brohm for however long the two remain at their respective schools. If you wouldn’t take what he did at Purdue with the big wins and bowl victories, let alone a 9 win season, then you’re full of it.
No comparison, IU has an eight win season where eight wins don't happen very often, nine win season at a school that historically has had bigger season. IU has wins against Michigan, Wisconsin, Penn State, Nebraska, and MSU; it is a shame you don't value those wins. Purdue got run out of their bowl game against Auburn giving up 56 points in the first half while scoring 7 points. Yes, Brohm has done a nice job at PU but your assessment is clouded with your attitude about coach Allen and Brohm, so maybe it is you that are full of it..
B.R.CrimsonB. IS completely full of it (but that's already been clearly established by his hero not having broken .500 yet at p u, while consistently looking for every opportunity to bail as soon as he can finagle a decent retirement package at "the Ville")... By the way, there's three coaches that were actually responsible for p u's decent record last Fall (plus a couple of refs in their m$u game) and all of those coaches have left (to get the hell away from J. B.)... I'd suggest our phony INDIANA fan wait until he sees how his hero fares against the Easiest schedule in the league This Fall before anointing him as a Hall of Famer...
Now back to INDIANA Football:
Here's an article that covers the original posts topic of who might be Our QB this Fall and why:
Now back to INDIANA Football:
Here's an article that covers the original posts topic of who might be Our QB this Fall and why:
My vision is quite clear in this situation. About the respective programs, coaches, fans and posters.
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Thx for the link. Biggest concern i have regardless of TA's decision is that neither is all that mobile when a play breaks down and our OL has yet to prove it can hold the pocket. The up tempo makes sense here to get the ball out whether on the ground or in the air.
Yeah..., that's a valid concern... Their lack of running ability negates a couple of plays (QB keepers) that Bell used to like to run at prior stops and gives the D less to worry about... 😞
Again, step away from the crimson kool-aid for a moment.
If I’m the AD in 2016 and I get rid of Wilson, I don’t just walk down the hall to grab a cup of coffee and offer up the position to my DC.
Wilson was toxic but had IU in a position to build off 2 back-to-back bowls, so it was somewhat appealing for a new coach. Had they actually done a search, I think a guy like Brohm might have listened. And if you had both guys to choose from, it’s a no-brainer to take the guy who has an entire coaching staff under him to bring with him and has prolific offenses. But Glass chose to do what Glass always did (whether it was Allen or Crean) and that is get too caught up in his emotions and make spontaneous decisions on hires or contract extensions.
He’s a good coach who gets more out of his personnel than Allen, quite frankly. You can still acknowledge that the rival got a better coach than our own program and still be an IU fan wanting the best possible leadership for your team. If Brohm is so awful to play for or coach with, why would a guy like Hagen go there? Why would multiple players from IU transfer there? It’s not like Allen has everything stable. He just lost a ton of staff.
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You are too biased against coach Allen that has done as good a job as Brohm and won more big games than Brohm like I pointed out earlier. Go to Purdue's site to tell them Brohm is better and not here. You don't consider the good things coach Allen has done and made changes in the coaching staff to make it better. Brohm fired two DCs so he did judge DC very well coaches either. IU's coaches have moved on to other jobs and one move to HC at his former school.
Not seeing people post that Brohm is "awful to play for or coach with", so why say this?
What people are saying, and correctly so, is that so far their is not nearly the difference between the two coaches that would warrant your trashing Allen and slobbering on Brohm.
As I said before, I still believe that unlike your twin sister here, you are an IU fan and go/went to games and follow the team. You are just over the top negative over small and even non-existant issues.
If I remember correctly, Gremel showed some ability to scramble. I still think he looked like our best QB last year.
you can learn an offense and reads, and accuracy can be improved just as shooting can, and often is, in basketball..
you can't learn athleticism and arm strength.
while maybe not ready this yr, i have a hard time believing we've given up on McCulley at QB.
and as i've said before, imo the way QBs are protected in practice gives the best thrower a big advantage in practice over a more athletic less accurate guy, than is going to be realized in a real game.
and we fans have absolutely zero idea what Williams looks like.
imo, picking your starter pre season, in non real game conditions, is like the golf team picking the top 4 or 5 strictly off driving range performance.
i personally absolutely hate opening the season with a B10 game, as it locks in your starter that was picked in practice, in non real game conditions.
i also hate how bowl game eligibility and playoff eligibility is handled, and would love to see a conference season only formula for bowl game and playoff eligibility.
that would allow B10 and other schools far more flexibility in scheduling non con opponents, where fan enjoyment, attendance, and matchups, take precedent in scheduling, without having to make scheduling wins against schools fans don't want to see or pay to see, a top priority.
this would also allow schools to let QB battles to be fought out in real game situations in the non con season, being that real game situations no longer exist much, if any, in practice to my knowledge.
and until the lights go on, and a real game environment exists against other big schools, imo you can't really judge how competing QBs will fair in a real game against a competitive school.
currently, the starting QB is picked in different conditions than games are played in.
and once that starter is picked, absent total calamity, only an injury removes him, as coaches are terrified of one bad play leading to one extra loss knocking them out of bowl eligibility, or playoff eligibility.
you can't learn athleticism and arm strength.
while maybe not ready this yr, i have a hard time believing we've given up on McCulley at QB.
and as i've said before, imo the way QBs are protected in practice gives the best thrower a big advantage in practice over a more athletic less accurate guy, than is going to be realized in a real game.
and we fans have absolutely zero idea what Williams looks like.
imo, picking your starter pre season, in non real game conditions, is like the golf team picking the top 4 or 5 strictly off driving range performance.
i personally absolutely hate opening the season with a B10 game, as it locks in your starter that was picked in practice, in non real game conditions.
i also hate how bowl game eligibility and playoff eligibility is handled, and would love to see a conference season only formula for bowl game and playoff eligibility.
that would allow B10 and other schools far more flexibility in scheduling non con opponents, where fan enjoyment, attendance, and matchups, take precedent in scheduling, without having to make scheduling wins against schools fans don't want to see or pay to see, a top priority.
this would also allow schools to let QB battles to be fought out in real game situations in the non con season, being that real game situations no longer exist much, if any, in practice to my knowledge.
and until the lights go on, and a real game environment exists against other big schools, imo you can't really judge how competing QBs will fair in a real game against a competitive school.
currently, the starting QB is picked in different conditions than games are played in.
and once that starter is picked, absent total calamity, only an injury removes him, as coaches are terrified of one bad play leading to one extra loss knocking them out of bowl eligibility, or playoff eligibility.
McCulley supposedly asked to move for this season so I don't see that as IU giving up on him more IU accommodating a player that was unhappy with his spot on the team. That is much better than losing him to the portal. A good QB/OC puts QBs through drills to determine who handles pressure the best. One reason QBs improved so much under DeBoer was scheme but also how he challenged QBs in practice with game like conditions. There will be a separation at QB before the first game so fans just need to calm down and let it happen.
i'm not privy to the McCulley situation other than what's been reported, so i'll pass on commenting on it other than what i already have.
i'll disagree that the QBs improved that much more under DeBoer, just that we had good QBs to begin with that were healthy.
as for any "separation" before the first game, if so, that would still be "separation" based in a not hitting the QB, not having to perform with sht coming down on you, situation.
not a real live game situation.
and once a starter is picked based on that practice world rather than a game world, absent an injury, often that guy is embedded in that starter role, and the others in their role.
Ramsey/Penix, Tre Roberson/Sudfeld, not always is there that separation.
Lol this thread has bounced around it's topics a ton since its creation so Ig I'm kind of off topic responding to the original post, but I would be stunned if it wasn't Bazelak leading the Hoosiers offense week one. I will acknowledge, I have not watched a full game of his, just seen clips so it's hard for me to judge his demeanor as a QB1, but from the limited eye test I've seen, and from their stats he is the best QB on the roster.
Bell was also the one that recruited him to come to Indiana, I'd be shocked if Bell opted to bench the transfer he recruited(who started at an SEC program not named Vandy) for a career backup who has struggled in the several opportunities he's gotten over the past two seasons, most notable Tuttle couldn't even put up 200 passing yards on MSU, the worst passing defense in the B1G, they averaged more than 340 passing yards against per game. Tuttle has gotten chances, you can make a case that his subpar play is the number one reason we lost the aforementioned game against MSU. A terrible pick 6 and one of our FGs would've been a TD if he had gone through his progressions and found a wide open Peyton Hendershot in the corner of the end zone. Bazelak had his struggles at Mizzou, but he has been the more proven QB at the P5 level than Tuttle and it's really not close.
Just knowing CTAs history with these sorts of things, my opinion is that he "doesn't want to give Illinois anything" so he won't name a starter until the end of fall camp, even though him and Bell probably both have a pretty good idea of who they want under center to start the year. I'm tired of hearing that Tuttle was a 4 star coming out of HS so he has some next level we just haven't seen yet. Sometimes the recruiting sites are just wrong on QBs, look at local kids Brandon Peters + Hunter Johnson, both were top 100 recruits coming out of HS, I wouldn't want either taking snaps for the Hoosiers next year. Maybe I'm wrong and either Tuttle has taken a step up in his performance, or Bazelak isn't all he's cracked up to be, but just going off their film alone, it shouldn't be much of a competition.
Bell was also the one that recruited him to come to Indiana, I'd be shocked if Bell opted to bench the transfer he recruited(who started at an SEC program not named Vandy) for a career backup who has struggled in the several opportunities he's gotten over the past two seasons, most notable Tuttle couldn't even put up 200 passing yards on MSU, the worst passing defense in the B1G, they averaged more than 340 passing yards against per game. Tuttle has gotten chances, you can make a case that his subpar play is the number one reason we lost the aforementioned game against MSU. A terrible pick 6 and one of our FGs would've been a TD if he had gone through his progressions and found a wide open Peyton Hendershot in the corner of the end zone. Bazelak had his struggles at Mizzou, but he has been the more proven QB at the P5 level than Tuttle and it's really not close.
Just knowing CTAs history with these sorts of things, my opinion is that he "doesn't want to give Illinois anything" so he won't name a starter until the end of fall camp, even though him and Bell probably both have a pretty good idea of who they want under center to start the year. I'm tired of hearing that Tuttle was a 4 star coming out of HS so he has some next level we just haven't seen yet. Sometimes the recruiting sites are just wrong on QBs, look at local kids Brandon Peters + Hunter Johnson, both were top 100 recruits coming out of HS, I wouldn't want either taking snaps for the Hoosiers next year. Maybe I'm wrong and either Tuttle has taken a step up in his performance, or Bazelak isn't all he's cracked up to be, but just going off their film alone, it shouldn't be much of a competition.
@i’vegotwinners “we had good QBs to begin with that were healthy”.
I can’t argue about healthy… but I think it’s fair to say DeBoer is a top tier QB Coach … and the performance on the field reflected the coaching. And, it was that performance which made the talent ‘good’ … not just the relative arm talent. (DeBoer was clearly missed when he left).
Arm talent alone doesn’t get the job done. Peyton Ramsey had an average arm at best … and outplayed better arm talent all over the P5 Conferences. He nearly beat Penn State in Happy Valley by passing just shy of 400 yards. Jamarkus Russell had out of this world arm talent … and was a bigger bust than even Ryan Leaf.
The most important QB skill of all is making the right decision with the ball. Do that well and even average arm talent can succeed. Joe Montana made good decisions (with anticipation) for Bill Walsh and succeeded with “average” NFL arm talent. Dan Marino had superior arm talent, made decent decisions, and only made the Super Bowl his rookie year. Arm talent is a necessary trait, but falls way short of sufficient.
McCulley has the athletic skills for all Big Ten, Day 1-2 NFL draft potential at WR. His presence on the field at WR will make coverages more predictable (the’ll roll to his side of the field more often than not). I’m excited to see him at split-end and flanker this fall. He’ll be an every down player at WR.
Let‘s be happy that even the players are trying to put the best 11 on the field. It’s what’s needed to win more games this season.
I can’t argue about healthy… but I think it’s fair to say DeBoer is a top tier QB Coach … and the performance on the field reflected the coaching. And, it was that performance which made the talent ‘good’ … not just the relative arm talent. (DeBoer was clearly missed when he left).
Arm talent alone doesn’t get the job done. Peyton Ramsey had an average arm at best … and outplayed better arm talent all over the P5 Conferences. He nearly beat Penn State in Happy Valley by passing just shy of 400 yards. Jamarkus Russell had out of this world arm talent … and was a bigger bust than even Ryan Leaf.
The most important QB skill of all is making the right decision with the ball. Do that well and even average arm talent can succeed. Joe Montana made good decisions (with anticipation) for Bill Walsh and succeeded with “average” NFL arm talent. Dan Marino had superior arm talent, made decent decisions, and only made the Super Bowl his rookie year. Arm talent is a necessary trait, but falls way short of sufficient.
McCulley has the athletic skills for all Big Ten, Day 1-2 NFL draft potential at WR. His presence on the field at WR will make coverages more predictable (the’ll roll to his side of the field more often than not). I’m excited to see him at split-end and flanker this fall. He’ll be an every down player at WR.
Let‘s be happy that even the players are trying to put the best 11 on the field. It’s what’s needed to win more games this season.
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Look at the completion of passes to see how well DeBoer did with QBs - scheme and increased very well %. Both Ramsey and Penix improved a lot in % and reading defenses. DeBoer ran offense in practice making changes due to putting them in a bad play call to see how they reacted. I don't know how coach Bell is handling QBs in practice but I hope he is doing some of the plays in practice like DeBoer.
By the way, you can practice pressure on QBs without hitting them and making them move their feet and throwing with pressure. Not tackling QBs doesn't mean they don't have pressure like in games; not hitting QBs is like the NFL and look how good they can play.
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My money is on Bazelak nailing down the job. Yesterday I watched his highlights from the MO/UK game that was played in Lexington.
Do yourself a favor and watch those highlights because the kid played his butt off. I don't recall Tuttle making those plays in his appearances at QB. He is a bit like Ramsey in those highlights....
Do yourself a favor and watch those highlights because the kid played his butt off. I don't recall Tuttle making those plays in his appearances at QB. He is a bit like Ramsey in those highlights....
I want whichever guy exhibits Ramsey's Nebraska game level of toughness along with Sudfelds arm strength... 😉😎🍺
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Ramsey took some vicious hits in that Nebraska game and got back up every time. At least a couple were targeting hits that didn't get called.
That was an important game psychologically for IU and Peyton came through.
Then back to 2nd string......
absent a duplicate bridge type scenario, it's difficult to compare coaches ability to elevate players' abilities.
that said, while i think there are some things some coaches are significantly better at than others, bettering a QB's abilities isn't one of them.
what they can do, is better utilize said abilities in various ways, and put the QB in a better position to succeed with the abilities they have.
that said, grasping the offense is one thing QBs can possibly improve on i would think.
as for decision making, no doubt some of that is inherent/instinctive, but i'd think just reps and experience are probably going to matter most there of the things that aren't inherent/instinctive.
all that said, we've never seen Bazelak play other than a highlight video, we've only seen a healthy Tuttle play a limited amount, and has McCulley ever played WR before?
not sure we should elevate McCulley to NFL all pro WR quite yet.
that said, Hardy was the last game changer at IU at WR, but still didn't impact more than Kellen Lewis, because receivers just don't have the impact QBs do, other than maybe a Rondale Moore, who comes along with his impact at a non QB spot maybe once every 10 or 20 yrs.
if we have a couple Penix and Kellen Lewis level Fr or Sophs here, i could see maybe moving McCulley to WR, but do we?
point being, i think it's a little early to be giving up on McCulley at QB, and he isn't going to pick up the things he's weak in at the QB position playing WR.
and yes, McCulley's NFL future may be at WR, but as i've said before here, tons of guys have very successfully made that switch after playing QB or another position, or basketball, in college.
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You stated " while i think there are some things some coaches are significantly better at than others, bettering a QB's abilities isn't one of them." It is possible to improve QB play through techniques, drills, and study. I had a coach telling a QB he needed to shorten his stride to quit overthrowing the ball. I watched the QB and realized the way he gripped the ball was the issue. We changed his grip and the problem disappeared. My coach thought he was a very good QB coach but what he did was follow a guideline for QB coaches instead of really understanding QB mechanics. If you truly understand QB passing then you can analyze and improve their passing. You are absolutely right about "what they can do, is better utilize said abilities in various ways, and put the QB in a better position to succeed with the abilities they have."
Also very important is building the QBs confidence in aforementioned strengths and abilities. If he doesn't believe he can, then he won't. So much of being a good decisive QB is confidence in himself and his skills, and knowing what he physically can and can't do.
How many times have we seen a physically gifted QB be unable to perform because he doesn't have the confidence make the right throws at the right times even if he has the arm talent to make every throw? Too often.
Indeed. Also add competition has much to do with confidence. Starting equal vs. against a recognized starter magnifies repetitions exercising talent into skills develops confidence in both the starter and the 2 and 3. Bell being an underling coach in the QB room and advancing to the leader in the room makes for a stable environment for these competitors to develop. In a few weeks we'll see the positive difference Bell orchestrates.
Yes. Competition breeds confidence. However, at some point, Bell needs to pick an unquestioned starter. I hope Bell has will have his guy by mid camp, and prepares him to be the unquestioned QB1. Give him all first team reps so he can get synced up with all these new receivers, running backs, and a new OL blocking scheme. That will give him confidence.
Not a lot of news, but a nice recap of how things are.
https://www.crimsonquarry.com/2022/...rterbacks-jack-tuttle-connor-bazelak-mcculley
https://www.crimsonquarry.com/2022/...rterbacks-jack-tuttle-connor-bazelak-mcculley
Looking forward to Bazelek pushing the ball downfield this year. I expect to see a lot of RB swing passes and dump offs for positive yardage.
I HATE Purdue with a passion, but they use the short passing game as an extention of their running game masterfully.
If we can channel that, we'll be open things up pretty well, I would imagine.
Fans often don't understand using short passes as part of the running plays despite teams using that way. It is a way to spread defenses out that you can't just by handing the ball off. The short passing game is like a misdirection play as it gives defenders something to defend beside the targeted player.
I hope to see a lot of good things with the new offense, but we will have to wait to see what it will look like this Fall.
I hope to see a lot of good things with the new offense, but we will have to wait to see what it will look like this Fall.
Absolutely believe in any kind of offensive misdirection. To me it's as indispensable as BB's shot fake. Causes defenses to make last second/split second decisions. Over a whole game the defense can make adjustments but mental fatigue initiates sooner and then magnify. I believe Bell utilizes frequent misdirection in his playbook. Could be a scheme IUFB has not seen much of.
My standard for a successful Power 5 QB is one who doesn't throw the "inopportune interception," and I'm not talking about a tipped ball, etc. There are interceptions that serve as a punt, and then there are those that stop a team's momentum cold and reverse the course of the game.
Agree with regard to the knocks on Hiller and some other coaches. People say they’re “bad” and then offer nothing specific to support that, other than extremely generic complaints. Sheridan is a perfect example, especially because his firing was a much more nuanced issue than him just being “bad”.
The prominent problem with Hiller's coaching production is not a large enough % of his charges show resolute defiance and meanness in fighting off a gritty opponent. The very attributes Tom Allen cherishes and admires in players. Don't know much about the distinct coaching demeanor of Bell but most OC's drive their staff to face their weakness and help fix it. HC's and coordinators are both troubleshooters and problem solvers. Hiller is leveraged by that.
Ultimately, isn’t the only way to form an opinion based on the results?
Hiller doesn’t seem to develop guys as evidenced by the OL progression (or lack there of) over his tenure here and last year was rock bottom in ability to open up holes and pass protect. We had the highest number of sacks allowed in the conference in 2021. Sheridan - the lack of roster depth in the QB room was egregious last year. He gambled on Penix being the full year starter despite a history of injury, didn’t prep his backups and has to completely change the playbook for a true frosh who couldn’t throw a 10 yard completion. The management of that room was awful.
The mismanagement of the quarterback room is 99.9% of the reason he got fired.
