Thanks, GOP & NRA! 5 Mass Shooting in 2024; 656 last year (UPDATED 01/05/24)

[CO. Hoosier]

There are competing ideas on fighting guerilla warfare, soft power vs hard power. You are advocating hard power. I am not sold on soft power alone, but I am even more sure hard power alone doesn't work. We need some form of hearts and minds here in the US.

Agree. That’s why I keep advocating for better education. I guess you could say I am advocating hard power in education too.

I remember when GWB proposed a stronger government role in preserving traditional famiky structure and the liberals laughed him off the stage. That was when many liberals were beginning their attack on all thing’s traditional. I think we are also now seeing the wages of destroying and mocking the building blocks of a cohesive society.

But, people need to feel a measure of safety and security before you can really use soft power.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Amazing skiing in Montana (you should try Big Sky) and Wyoming. Not too shabby in the summer either. Red states. I think you'd be less miserable there.

You just don’t get this happiness thing do you?

 

[CO. Hoosier]

I am growing of the opinion we are watching 2 different cultures respond to the same stimuli. The stimuli being disillusionment,
anger, and resentment. The urban culture is striking outward, the rural culture inward with the opioid crisis. The rural culture has had generations of British/German "stiff upper lip" so they try to hide the response and internalize.

I am thinking we need a national hearts and minds campaign to restore trust in the system and the belief it is possible to escape these conditions.

In another thread, Mark mentions national service. I am thinking of a voluntary CCC plan where volunteers get paid, and either get training in heavy equipment, construction, welding, culinary, truck driving or get college credits while working.

I am thinking of Deep Springs, a 2 year college that is a working ranch. Kids work the ranch, take turns cooking, cleaning, being administrative assistants all while taking classes. The kids that finish this program are the most sought after students of elite universities.

Get kids into this new type of CCC either getting traditional college credits or trade learning/experience. The idea being after 2 years any kid leaving has a competitive edge for a truck driving job or university admission.

Studies do show that conservatives are generally happier than liberals, and conservatives spend less time with mental health therapists than liberals. So there is that.

 

[outside shooter]

It's a multifaceted problem without a simple one-fix solution.

But preventing people with diagnosed serious mental illnesses, past felony convictions, past known violent behavior, etc. from obtaining instruments that have been optimized for mass killing must be, AT MININIUM, a part of the solution.

Can we at least agree on that?

 

[CO. Hoosier]

There are exceptions to what I am about to say because quite a few of the mass shootings have been suburban kids, but...we have an urban cultural issue that impacts poor people, particularly the black community. If you could wave a wand and turn the black crime and murder rate comparable to the white one, this country becomes vastly improved overnight. And it isn't a systemic racism problem. The problem got worse when systemic racism was removed from the system.

Single moms are generally bad for society. Hook up culture is bad for society. If you don't grow up in a traditional nuclear family and you turn out as good as a kid who did, you beat the odds. The worst thing Progressives have done is remove the concept of shame from the culture.

The urban street violence is a different problem than mass shooting violence. The Democrats only address the mass shooting problem because that can be made a white problem. Much more death and ruined lives result from street violence, drugs, and guns. We don’t seem to care about that. Because to care means we must see it as a Black issue. There is abject poverty and drugs in white Appalachia too. But not the violenc.. Why?

When. a pretty white girl is murdered, it’s national news. In Jon Benet’s case it’s news for decades. When a black girl is murdered, nobody gives a damn. Ignoring Black crime and black violence is the real systemic racism.

 

[outside shooter]

Ignoring Black crime and black violence is yet another example (among many) of pervasive, systemic racism.

I inserted some words to make your assertion substantially less ridiculous.

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

i hate to wade in on this, but can't help myself.
Before you condemn the legal law abiding gun owners -which, in full disclosure, includes me- have you watched what Hollywood and the video game industry has been putting out in recent years? (and I won't even touch some side streets of the music industry). The entertainment industry has glamorized gun use to the point where we don't even flinch seeing drive by shootings on the big screen, or even our own TVs. Pair that with social media, and the root cause is not the availability of guns. They've been here since the pilgrims. It's a societal, mental health issue. A lack of respect for human life.

The Waukesha dude killed a bunch of kids in a parade with a car. What do we do, ban automobiles?
9/11 was pulled off using airplanes.
How many stabbing deaths occur each year? Do we ban knives?
Paul Pelosi was almost killed with a hammer. What's the solution? Close down Home Depot?
Most of the shootings in Chicago are gang/drug related, and I'm willing to bet the perps are not FOID card holders using registered guns. So new laws aren't going to change the problem regardless.

We tried banning alcohol. All it did was make criminals like Capone more powerful.
Drugs are illegal. But the market thrives and cartels are more powerful than the Mexican government. Sad truth, as long as there is a demand...there will be a market, whether you legalize it or not.

I don't know what the answer is. But toning down the gun violence our kids see on TV, movies, video games, youtube, etc.....might be a good start.

Don't expect solutions for any major problems to come from the DC swamp. That's just a never ending power struggle and they'll use anything to gain points. Mayor Lightfoot doesn't seem too concerned with all the toe tags counted on the south side each weekend.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

I love mountains and snow as much as anyone. It seems to be a minority position, I think of retiring to Colorado but most people I know think that is crazy and Florida is the place to go. I cannot imagine enjoying Florida.

Many people agree with you. I run into a lot if retirees who move to ski areas, or at least have a second home there. There is something very soothing and peaceful about a blanket of fresh snow. One of the reasons I took that photo was the solitude it represents. Not another skier in sight. That’s the Ten-Mike range in the background, a stunning backdrop for skiing at Copper.

 

[outside shooter]

How many stabbing deaths occur each year? Do we ban knives?
Paul Pelosi was almost killed with a hammer. What's the solution? Close down Home Depot?

Post the stats on mass knifing incidents (say, 5+ injured or dead)

Post the stats on mass hammer attack incidents (say, 5+ injured or dead)

Or stop making stupid comparisons

 

[Stuffshot]

The "cars kill people" argument has always been stupid. Guns have one purpose, to kill or maim. Sure you can use them for target practice, and that's fun. But they are designed solely to kill.

Obviously cars are not designed to kill people.

And, cars are not used to kill dozens of schoolchildren at their grade school or to kill dozens of fans at a country music festival across the street from their hotel or dozens of people at a gay night club or at a videogame tournament and on and on.

But ...... cars are definitely used by the gunlovers as a false equivalency argument to defeat efforts to restrict guns in this country despite the fact that it's absolutely obvious that guns are not being used responsibly by the gunlovers.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Many people agree with you. I run into a lot if retires who move to ski areas, or at least have a second home there. There is something very soothing and peaceful about a blanket of fresh snow. One of the reasons I took that photo was the solitude it represents. Not another skier in sight. That’s the Ten-Mike range in the background, a stunning backdrop for skiing at Copper.

@Marvin the Martian fla was doable. Affordable. You could get a trailer. Ski towns are expensive. New Yorkers are changing fla. I don’t know where people will go

 

[Stuffshot]

Is staying in the NRA and pushing for reform not an option?

I’m appalled by the sexual abuse in the Catholic Church. Am I an idiot for being a Catholic?

Or are you an idiot for painting with such a broad brush?

If you push within the NRA for reform to low restriction of firearms, you will be shouted down.

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

Post the stats on mass knifing incidents (say, 5+ injured or dead)

Post the stats on mass hammer attack incidents (say, 5+ injured or dead)

Or stop making stupid comparisons

if this is a political argument, we can vector off into a discussion about fentanyl deaths and the open border. There are some pretty scary numbers to post. My point was regarding human life in general. I noticed you chose to avoid commenting on the Hollywood violence influence in American society.

This problem is much deeper than 'blame the guns'. It's the people pulling the trigger. Whether they are holding a gun, knife.....or selling fentanyl to our kids on the corner down the street from the local middle school.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

@Marvin the Martian fla was doable. Affordable. You could get a trailer. Ski towns are expensive. New Yorkers are changing fla. I don’t know where people will go

I'm not really a skier, more a hiker. Frankly I'll stay in Indiana as attending IU sporting events is much more difficult in CO and FL.

 

[Stuffshot]

When it comes to gun control issues the Liberal Democrats are just f*cking dumb. There is no other way to describe them.

Case in point: the heavily Liberal Democrat Colorado state legislature is about to pass a bill allowing local county authorities to ban shooting on any and all private land. If you want to shoot a beer cans on your ranch, that could be illegal. The mostly urban (remember that one man one vote thing) legislature believes that gun fire is such an issue that we must have tools to ban it. That ol’ “one more tool in the toolbox“platitude. The reports of gunfire deaths in rural Colorado are as rare as plant-based meat.

The real gun problem is found on the urban streets of every city. It’s largely a juvenile problem. It’s largely a Black problem. It’s largely an illegally possessed gun problem. It’s a gang problem. It is largely a drug problem. Gun fights are a regular occurrence in Denver. Gun deaths are only slightly less common. The gun problem significantly increased in the wake of the George Floyd riots. That was the time when the Liberals and Democrats worked overtime to convince Black youngsters cops were out to kill them. That was a time the liberal legislature stripped some of the public official protections afforded to cops. That was the time when cops were removed from schools. That was a time when cops were removed from public transportation. That was the time cops were so disrespected that the employment plummeted and is yet to recover.

We all are paying the wages of that liberal anti-cop sentiment today.

There are laws that could be passed to address the black-juvenile-gun-drug problem. There are procedures (like random stop and frisk) that could be employed. But none of that will happen because we cannot stigmatize black youngsters. We will just turn them into violent gangbangers instead.

So keep on believing we can stop everyday gun problems with bans of certain kinds of rifles, more background checks, and shooting bans where shooting is not a problem. Meanwhile street guns, street shooters, street drugs, go along unabated. After all guns are a white bubba problem.

Your "black youngster" theory is not a rational justification for your opposition to solutions to the "white bubba problem"?

And, I believe there may well be significant support among the black community for far more restrictive gun laws.

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

It's a multifaceted problem without a simple one-fix solution.

But preventing people with diagnosed serious mental illnesses, past felony convictions, past known violent behavior, etc. from obtaining instruments that have been optimized for mass killing must be, AT MININIUM, a part of the solution.

Can we at least agree on that?

I do agree with that but most of those conditions already exist to some degree.

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

110,000+ reported fentanyl deaths in the USA, 2022.

667 mass shooting deaths in the USA, 2022.

Aren't statistics a bitch?

Last I checked, the importation and private distribution of fentanyl was illegal in the USA.

So explain to me how your draconian gun laws are going to provide positive results? And why aren't we, as a nation, more concerned about fentanyl distribution?

One reason only. Politics.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

I inserted some words to make your assertion substantially less ridiculous.

A white liberal would say.

 

[Baller23Boogie]

110,000+ reported fentanyl deaths in the USA, 2022.

667 mass shooting deaths in the USA, 2022.

Aren't statistics a bitch?

Last I checked, the importation and private distribution of fentanyl was illegal in the USA.

So explain to me how your draconian gun laws are going to provide positive results? And why aren't we, as a nation, more concerned about fentanyl distribution?

One reason only. Politics.

Why can't both be a priority?

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Many people agree with you. I run into a lot if retirees who move to ski areas, or at least have a second home there. There is something very soothing and peaceful about a blanket of fresh snow. One of the reasons I took that photo was the solitude it represents. Not another skier in sight. That’s the Ten-Mike range in the background, a stunning backdrop for skiing at Copper.

I think mountains are soothing, snow or no snow. As long as there is no lightning, not a fan when I'm over a mile closer. But snow enhances the soothing feeling. I'd much rather deal with the cold than the humidity of Florida, the FL crowds, and I'm not a fan of sand. When we married we strongly considered moving to Bolder long ago in a galaxy far far away. It has a similar vibe to Bloomington, but with mountains.

I see Golden has a day for golden retrievers. I'm thinking of taking my girl next year, they had like 1400 goldens there this year. She would go absolutely crazy. Since one can't hike with dogs in RMNP, I'll have to find somewhere else to take her. She needs a bit more work before I could trust her.

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

Why can't both be a priority?

based on the numbers, one should be a much, much....MUCH bigger priority.
But it's not. And we all know why, whether anyone wants to admit it or not.
Politics.

I'll answer your question with a question. Looking at those numbers, why isn't controlling the border and influx of fentanyl into this country a TOP priority? I see no actions from Washington to convince me it is, or will be in the foreseeable future. Because to get on top of it, they'll have to address the much broader situation at our southern border. And that's political poison in DC.

 

[.Gerdis]

110,000+ reported fentanyl deaths in the USA, 2022.

667 mass shooting deaths in the USA, 2022.

Aren't statistics a bitch?

Last I checked, the importation and private distribution of fentanyl was illegal in the USA.

So explain to me how your draconian gun laws are going to provide positive results? And why aren't we, as a nation, more concerned about fentanyl distribution?

One reason only. Politics.

110k?

where does that place in terms of cause of death?

 

[Baller23Boogie]

based on the numbers, one should be a much, much....MUCH bigger priority.
But it's not. And we all know why, whether anyone wants to admit it or not.
Politics.

I'll answer your question with a question. Looking at those numbers, why isn't controlling the border and influx of fentanyl into this country a TOP priority? I see no actions from Washington to convince me it is, or will be in the foreseeable future. Because to get on top of it, they'll have to address the much broader situation at our southern border. And that's political poison in DC.

Drug Enforcement Administration Announces the Seizure of Over 379 million Deadly Doses of Fentanyl in 2022

www.dea.gov

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

I do agree with that but most of those conditions already exist to some degree.

they do...I went through the Illinois FOID card process; had to disclose all that info. Then the ATF does a background check. If I had a prior felony charge, under psych eval on meds...history of domestic violence, mental illness blah blah...I would not have been issued a FOID card, and could not legally purchase a firearm. I have no problem with extensive background checks to legally own a handgun. And I keep my two handguns in a biometric safe in my den. So unless my kids (who are now old enough to respect it) can steal my thumbprint, no one but I can access my 9mm or .22.

Problem is, at least in the Chicago area and most major cities, the gun violence is tied to other illegal activities, ie...the gang wars and /or drug trade, and those people aren't carrying FOID cards or legal guns anyways. And they never will be. Only thing more restrictive gun laws do is prevent people like me from being legally able to defend myself and family from the law breakers.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

based on the numbers, one should be a much, much....MUCH bigger priority.
But it's not. And we all know why, whether anyone wants to admit it or not.
Politics.

I'll answer your question with a question. Looking at those numbers, why isn't controlling the border and influx of fentanyl into this country a TOP priority? I see no actions from Washington to convince me it is, or will be in the foreseeable future. Because to get on top of it, they'll have to address the much broader situation at our southern border. And that's political poison in DC.

The fentanyl is mostly brought in by Americans driving across the border. The next biggest source are shipping containers. We lack the resources to open every shipping container.

https://www.cato.org/blog/fentanyl-smuggled-us-citizens-us-citizens-not-asylum-seekers

Sone believe the migrant issue is planned by the cartels to distract from these other routes.

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

110k?

where does that place in terms of cause of death?

not sure, I'm sure not in same range as cancer, heart disease, covid.
But those are internal medicine related deaths (or whatever you want to call them).

I view drugs, guns, etc. as external (ie not caused by some disease or failing internal health).
In that rather broad category, 110K has to place pretty high up on the ladder.

 

[FarvaLarva]

This is why I stay in Colorado. Took this about 3 this afternoon

Good. Stick to those blues and greens old man.

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

The fentanyl is mostly brought in by Americans driving across the border. The next biggest source are shipping containers. We lack the resources to open every shipping container.

https://www.cato.org/blog/fentanyl-smuggled-us-citizens-us-citizens-not-asylum-seekers

Sone believe the migrant issue is planned by the cartels to distract from these other routes.

to be clear, I'm not blaming migrants. I'm blaming the porous nature of the southern border. And our lack of resources to detect the flow of the drugs.

If we really want to dig deep, and I mean....really deep...trace it back to the source- where the fentanyl is coming from originally (ie manufactured). Now we face the red elephant in the room. And the point where Wash DC loses its balls.

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

Good. Stick to those blues and greens old man.

nothing wrong with gliding down a nicely groomed blue with no one in front of you, on a nice sunny afternoon. Could think of worse ways to spend a day.

 

[mcmurtry66]

The fentanyl is mostly brought in by Americans driving across the border. The next biggest source are shipping containers. We lack the resources to open every shipping container.

https://www.cato.org/blog/fentanyl-smuggled-us-citizens-us-citizens-not-asylum-seekers

Sone believe the migrant issue is planned by the cartels to distract from these other routes.

Pete. Always comes back to Pete. My God

 

[Marvin the Martian]

to be clear, I'm not blaming migrants. I'm blaming the porous nature of the southern border. And our lack of resources to detect the flow of the drugs.

If we really want to dig deep, and I mean....really deep...trace it back to the source- where the fentanyl is coming from originally (ie manufactured). Now we face the red elephant in the room. And the point where Wash DC loses its balls.

We also need to figure out the other half of the equation, why do so many seek out these drugs. We know opioids were over prescribed. But as we have tried to end that, more are still going to them. What works to slow, if not end, demand?

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Pete. Always comes back to Pete. My God

Does Pete play for Arsenal? Not sure why you are referring to a Pete.

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

We also need to figure out the other half of the equation, why do so many seek out these drugs. We know opioids were over prescribed. But as we have tried to end that, more are still going to them. What works to slow, if not end, demand?

many yrs ago I ended up in the hospital due to severe stomach virus or (more likely) ecoli...3 days, high fever, thought i had appendicitis as first...felt like someone was sawing through my gut. First night, I could not sleep due to extreme pain. The nurse offered me morphine, but I refused out of principle. Second night, screw it I gave in...she hit me with a full dose. 10 seconds later, I understood the appeal. Wow. Slept 9 hours like I was laying on a warm fuzzy cloud.

 

[IUCrazy2]

Pete. Always comes back to Pete. My God

Well there was a nice environmental disaster in Ohio involving transportation that he has been pretty quiet about....although he did get in enough time to travel and talk about how awful it is there are so many whites in construction.

Pete is an educated dumb-****.

 

[IUCrazy2]

A white liberal would say.

He really truly was a conservative until Trump donchaknow....

 

[mcmurtry66]

Well there was a nice environmental disaster in Ohio involving transportation that he has been pretty quiet about....although he did get in enough time to travel and talk about how awful it is there are so many whites in construction.

Pete is an educated dumb-****.

WHERE’S BUTTIGIEG!!!!

 

[outside shooter]

Why can't both be a priority?

Hey, we can only do one thing at a time, man! That's the rules. Next you'll be wanting IU to be good at both men's and women's basketball. Hold on there!

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Good. Stick to those blues and greens old man.

Yep! I’ve had my share of blacks and moguls. Now it’s strictly groomers. Nothing like a leisurely cruise down a 2 mile groomed slope with fresh snow for this old man.. I apologize for nothing.

 

[cosmickid]

We have common sense gun laws. They aren't enforced. They often aren't enforced by progressive DAs who, because of equity, don't like throwing the book at criminals.

About that MSU shooter...

Michigan State Shooter Had Prior Felony Gun Charge Dismissed By Progressive Prosecutor

A gunman who killed three and wounded five others at Michigan State University on Monday would have been barred from owning a firearm at the time of the shooting had he not had felony gun charges dismissed by a progressive prosecutor. Anthony McRae was charged in June 2019 with illegally...

freebeacon.com

Serious question... Are you guys as upset with the various state Legislatures that have passed "open carry" provisions, as you are with the "Progressive" Prosecutor who declined to prosecute this case over an issue that would not even be a crime in most "Red" states?

The MI "crime" of the young man having a loaded weapon in his car would not even be a crime in Texas.So why would this prosecutors actions upset you?Pretty sure all of you guys are advocates for open carry. Isn't that exactly what the shooter's "previous crime" basically amounted to?

Hell it's not even a crime in Indiana...

"In short, any proper person, as defined in Ind. Code § 35-47-1-7, may legally carry a handgun, concealed or openly, or have a handgun in their vehicle without a license. Ind. Code 35-47-2-1."

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Serious question... Are you guys as upset with the various state Legislatures that have passed "open carry" provisions, as you are with the "Progressive" Prosecutor who declined to prosecute this case over an issue that would not even be a crime in most "Red" states?

The MI "crime" of the young man having a loaded weapon in his car would not even be a crime in Texas.So why would this prosecutors actions upset you?Pretty sure all of you guys are advocates for open carry. Isn't that exactly what the shooter's "previous crime" basically amounted to?

Hell it's not even a crime in Indiana...

"In short, any proper person, as defined in Ind. Code § 35-47-1-7, may legally carry a handgun, concealed or openly, or have a handgun in their vehicle without a license. Ind. Code 35-47-2-1."

If Michigan makes certain conduct with a gun a crime, why should a prosecutor not press that charge just cuz it isn’t a crime in Texas? I don’t get your logic.