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Sorry, but Sanders is beating Bush/Walker/Trump in H2H

Plenty of successful western countries find a way to make college affordable for everyone. I'm sure if we put our american ingenuity to work, we could find a way to do it.

You say this as if we haven't tried. We've had a general outlook that everybody should be entitled to a college education for quite some time. And this is the chief reason it's become (a) very expensive, and (b) no particular guarantee of a good-paying job.

In a whole, whole lot of cases, I'm convinced that people would be better off without the low-value degree and debts that paid for them. I don't see how expanding and transferring this burden onto the backs of taxpayers would be a good thing.
 
Plenty of successful western countries find a way to make college affordable for everyone. I'm sure if we put our american ingenuity to work, we could find a way to do it.

That's simply not true. It's becoming less and less affordable in those countries too. And those countries also encourage high schoolers to consider trade school and don't have an everyone goes to college attitude. The entry standards are a bit more rigourous.
 
That's simply not true. It's becoming less and less affordable in those countries too. And those countries also encourage high schoolers to consider trade school and don't have an everyone goes to college attitude. The entry standards are a bit more rigourous.
So? What's your point? We should pay for CC and trade school too.

The problem isn't people who get turned away. I agree, not everyone can get a Ph.D. The problem is how much we charge the ones who do.
 
Why is it ignorant?
There are many reasons, but here are 3:

1. $18 trillion national debt. We will have to pay for it without adding to the debt. Tax increases to fund this would be a burden on everyone. It would be a bargain for those that need to send their children to college, but they would pay for it for their entire working career. To everyone else, the tax would be like paying interest only on a loan for something you never received.
2. A college degree isn't needed by everyone. Not everyone is college material. IVY Tech is losing funding because their graduation rate is abysmal. It isn't that the school is bad, they are accepting everyone, including those that are getting grants that can't do college level work. Providing funding to 100% of high school graduates is a huge waste.
3. Skin in the game. I am almost as proud of the way I paid for my education as the diplomas I earned. I worked extremely hard to pay as I went. It impressed my first employer when they found out that I worked to pay for my education and still maintained a good GPA. I used the benefit of employer paid tuition to get my advanced degree. I never dropped a class. I would have thrown away my own money. My nephew qualified as a Hoosier Scholar.Because of his families income, he only needed to maintain a 2.0 at a community college and then transfer to IU, Purdue, or another state school. He is a smart kid that used his free money to waste 2 years only to flunk out and now pretends to be taking online courses. Still doesn't have enough credits to be close to even an Associates degree in his field of Psychology.

I am all for college. It doesn't bother me that college graduates are doing jobs that don't require a college education.Getting the education allows them the potential to get a better job in the future. For those that are capable, an education is something that will help them throughout life. I would rather not see universities have to build up their facilities to house and educate a larger number of kids that won't last a year.
 
There are many reasons, but here are 3:

OK, that's fair, but that's not how free education actually works. I get your economic argument.

1. $18 trillion national debt. We will have to pay for it without adding to the debt. Tax increases to fund this would be a burden on everyone. It would be a bargain for those that need to send their children to college, but they would pay for it for their entire working career. To everyone else, the tax would be like paying interest only on a loan for something you never received.

We could argue all day about where the funding would come from and never come to a conclusion. I would start with the defense budget, but that is an endless debate. Virtually all if Europe does it, so someone figured it out.

2. A college degree isn't needed by everyone. Not everyone is college material. IVY Tech is losing funding because their graduation rate is abysmal. It isn't that the school is bad, they are accepting everyone, including those that are getting grants that can't do college level work. Providing funding to 100% of high school graduates is a huge waste.

Don't disagree and neither does the 'free' education system. Not everybody is eligible for university. There are many benchmarks that have to be met to achieve a college education. Those that don't qualify have other educational opportunities that meet their abilities and interests. No program accepts you if you don't prove the ability to complete it.

3. Skin in the game. I am almost as proud of the way I paid for my education as the diplomas I earned. I worked extremely hard to pay as I went. It impressed my first employer when they found out that I worked to pay for my education and still maintained a good GPA. I used the benefit of employer paid tuition to get my advanced degree. I never dropped a class. I would have thrown away my own money. My nephew qualified as a Hoosier Scholar.Because of his families income, he only needed to maintain a 2.0 at a community college and then transfer to IU, Purdue, or another state school. He is a smart kid that used his free money to waste 2 years only to flunk out and now pretends to be taking online courses. Still doesn't have enough credits to be close to even an Associates degree in his field of Psychology.

That's fine. People need all kinds of ways to be motivated. Many are just motivated by personal ambition. If you don't achieve in your choosen school school, you will not be allowed to continue. It doesn't mean you can just go if you want, you have to pass. If you fail, then you are gone.

I am all for college. It doesn't bother me that college graduates are doing jobs that don't require a college education.Getting the education allows them the potential to get a better job in the future. For those that are capable, an education is something that will help them throughout life. I would rather not see universities have to build up their facilities to house and educate a larger number of kids that won't last a year.

On average the schools here are far ahead of US schools in most areas. My son has a shitload of work to do and he is only entering 4th grade. Schooling is taken quite seriously and it is expected that kids will work hard at it. Free or not.
 
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