If you follow it closely, coaching transitions generally produce a step back. Even IU, with the entire defensive staff still in place, took a step back in the transition from Wilson tin allen, and that was with 17 returning starters. What you’re seeing at UCLA is actually the norm, not the exception.
PU/Brohm Season on the Brink?
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Exactly. Which is why those who suggest that Tom Allen was the wrong hire and that hiring a "big name" head coach would have meant a bowl appearance are using faulty logic.
The other part of that equation is that we probably would have lost all or part of the 2016 (spring 2017) recruiting class. Guys that are playing pretty prominent roles in our 3-0 start this season. Given how bare our cupboard was, it's possible that we might have followed a 5-or-6-win season last year with a 2 or3-win season this year. Look no farther than W. Lafayette for evidence of what can happen when you completely flip a staff.
Most people have argued not that Allen was necessarily the wrong hire but that the process that led to his hire was poorly conceived and executed. I think we all agree on that.
As for the cupboard, it was far from bare, and no one has seriously suggested it was.
As for Purdue, that’s what can happen in a coaching change, but it’s far and away the exception rather than the rule. Look no farther than Bloomington for evidence of that.
We don't ALL agree because I think the right guy was already here. IMO there was no need to look elsewhere or conduct a national search. Time will tell if I'm correct or if I'm dead wrong but until I see otherwise I am a firm believer that this was a case of no search necessary.
I'm not a guy who routinely claims to have any inside information, but I heard from two different people with inside connections to the AD that Glass was distressed upon finding out that Tom Allen was leaving at the end of the season in 2016. With KW already in hot water, Glass was determined to keep TA in Bloomington. Nothing sinister, just a problem whose solution presented itself.
As cougar says, we don't all agree on that. If Allen is the right hire, it's tough to say that the process was flawed. If Allen is the right hire, who cares what the process was?
Agreed, and I shudder to think where we'd be if he had left. (Back to giving up 40+ points a game is where we'd be).
Why did you never respond to my questions regarding this position? I will repost it for you.
"And what would that process be? The fact that there was not a long national search?
Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe Glass saw what kind of coach Allen was up close and with the consultation of football people he knows, thought THIS is the guy that can coach young men up, build a winning football program and do it in a way that IU fans can be proud of? A guy that after he builds the program will not bolt for the first offer from the SEC? That he is an Indiana guy kind of like TH?
Naah, that would be impossible. What was I thinking."
After the turnaround our defense made his first year, I said Allen might be our next coach if Wilson were to leave for another job. My acceptance of Allen grew after he proved his ability to coach defense wasn't a one year perfect storm.
I was concerned when Lagow was our answer at QB. Ramsey, Penix, and the ability to put a kid in that wasn't on the depth chart at RB and not miss a beat has me believing in Allen again.
He is building on what Wilson had started. He is doing it on both sides of the ball.
I too did not agree Allen was the wrong hire or process was wrong b/c IU had been a doormat of defense for so long and he turned them around in one season and has maintained a much higher baseline now. Plus he was an enthusiastic Indiana guy, who reminded me always of the best of Hep + Mallory.
What I don't know is the case that Allen was "definitely leaving at the end of the year" for what, Ol Miss DC job? Not sure why he'd have moved the family again for a lateral move, when SEC isn't "that" much higher than B10, but maybe his DC pay scale would have been.
Regardless, I think like Brad Stevens showed at Butler Mens BB and now Celtics, great coaches are great coaches. Allen rose in 10 years from HS HC to College HC and he got a bit of a late start on his college track. But he's got the combo of intensity, focus, drive, passion and caring. Players/coaches love him. He knows where he wants to go and the players are following him there!
Don’t doubt your scenario of Allen’snhire, but it confirms how poorly Glass managed the hiring and firing of Wilson which, given his background, was hardly a surprise.
Glass has no credibility when it came to coaching hires, so not doing a national search was, in my view, the wrong move. It’s a done deal, but that doesn’t mean it was done the right way, though Glass’s lack of experience likely contributed to that.
Well, the right process nearly always produces a superior result, even if there are very occasional exceptions. Mike Davis was hired permanently after a flawed process. So was Bill Lynch. Do you believe those outcomes might have been different had the approach been more disciplined?
What none of us here knows is exactly what process FG went through or who he consulted in the Tom Allen hire.
Additionally, I don't think there is such a thing as a sure-fire process that produces a guaranteed result. Butler basketball kept plugging in the "next guy in line" from their staff with tremendous success. I don't think anyone could make a rational argument the Pat Fitzgerald was a bad hire even if the AD didn't talk to another living soul.
It wasn't Glass' inexperience that produced Dinardo, who everyone thought at the time would produce program-changing results. And both Tom Crean and Kevin Wilson came via a nation-wide and extensive search.
My feeling is that Fred Glass has done as well in his hires as many other ADs who came from extensive coaching backgrounds. At this point it looks like his FB, MBB, WBB, baseball, and softball hires have been solid. Though it might be too early to declare any of them unequivocal successes, it would also be incredibly premature to dismiss any of them as failures. We won't know about most of them for a couple of years, but I'm not sure his lack of coaching background has been detrimental. I don't think having been a great coach makes one a great AD, any more than having been a great player makes one a great coach.
What I do know is that FG has made it clear that he will replace coaches hired by past ADs or himself when he feels they cannot achieve at the level of expectation, both on and off the field. And while he might have been too slow on the trigger to replace Tom Crean, I think there are plenty of examples where ADs with a coaching background have made more egregious mistakes.
Most reasonable people would disagree with your use of "nearly always" and "very occasional". More like "is more likely to" and "frequent". The list of failures following what you are calling the right process is very, very long. Longer than the list of successes, in fact.
Besides, you didn't answer my question. I will answer yours, though. Davis was undoubtedly a poor decision. Lynch turned out to be but it was difficult to fire the man who just took you to your first bowl game in 14 years. It's easy to use hindsight to call out what didn't work. Two examples aren't all of them and neither of those were Glass' decisions.
So far, Glass has a pretty solid track record of hiring coaches. Even Wilson elevated the program and there's no denying that. Until it's obvious that Glass is failing at hiring coaches, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. If Allen keeps winning, it was a good call regardless of how well it meets your personal aesthetic.
I think you can add women’s soccer and volleyball to his list of successful hires. Don’t know if it was correct process or not and could care less how we arrived at these people but does appear to be right choices.
Against my better judgment, I'm going to give you one more shot, Larry. Please keep it civil and try to avoid condescension.
First, let's clear up one fact. Glass hardly lacks experience. He's been in the job for 10 years, eight when he promoted Allen to HC.
I'm sure you'd agree that running an athletics department is a multi-faceted job, and much more complex than 20+ years ago when schools would often simply move a burned-out head coach over to the AD position. Contract negotiation, risk management, compliance and related matters are a much bigger deal than they used to be. That's why we're seeing more ADs with business and even legal (e.g. Glass; Hobbs at Rutgers) backgrounds. With the budgets they manage and the staffing they oversee, it's really a CEO job now.
I can point to a number of successes that strongly suggest Glass has been a very good CEO - - and AD. Of course, as the largest revenue sports (although IU certainly doesn't seem to be hurting for cash these days), football and basketball must be considered. As a result, the hiring of Wilson and the extensions of both Wilson's and Crean's contracts deserve scrutiny. I don't think it's a reach for anyone to argue that mistakes were made in those areas. But Glass strikes me as a bright guy and I have little doubt he's learned from those mistakes. Most people, regardless of the nature or level of the job, learn on the job. Allen is doing that now, I know I've done it in various positions, and I suspect you have as well. Based on a lot that I've read, I believe Glass has become much more of a "football guy" since the day he first stepped into the AD's office. I also think it's quite possible that, for the first time since Mallory/Knight, we've got two highly qualified HCs simultaneously leading our two biggest sports.
Instead of continually griping about the "process," why don't we give this some time to play out. Glass may have hit a home run with Miller and Allen. Let's see what happens.
And this is where individual standards vary, sometimes significantly. Wilson doesn’t seem like a successful hire when his known personal behaviors follow him to Bloomington and create problems that eventually contributed to his departure less than a year after his contract was both extended and substantially increased. Sharon Versyp (sp) abruptly quit to return to alma mater without any contractual protection for IU, and was replaced by a coach who wasn’t ready for the big stage. And Curt Miller happened. And Crean’s extension happened, which Hirt them until Glass’s hand was forced internally. Those all seem pretty egregious to me, and a lack of experience was likely a contributor to those failings.
A reasonable post. Here’s hoping that those things you’re hoping for actually come to fruition.
Thought I answered your question but I’ll clarify it further. The process matters because that sort of disciplined approach is far more likely to produce favorable outcomes than an undisciplined one, especially after a “failure”. Allen may work out great but, if he doesn’t, it’s not hindsight to make the point that the failure to consider other candidates was negligent and a large contributor to the unfavorable results that occurred.
I have no doubt Glass has learned on the job, but his lack of experience in hiring coaches likely caused the bumps in the road that we’ve seen (Wilson had a certain reputation that preceded his arrival, which was thought to be the reason he’d never sniffed another head coaching job). And I’m not sure the list of failures after doing it “right” is lengthier than the number of successes. Just seems like IU has enough challenges without hamstringing themselves further.
Fair enough, though I don't agree that the hiring process of Allen was "negligent". Expedient, maybe but Glass may have been convinced he had the right coach and didn't need to look any further. There's nothing wrong with that.
I meant it would be considered “negligent” if Allen’s tenure turns out to be less than successful.
So let me get this straight. Tom Allen is probably the right guy for the job. He is on campus and has done a good job. He is from Indiana his dad is a very respected coach. He is respected by Indiana high school coaches and by Florida high school coaches. But we spend millions of dolllars to have someone do a national search and pay for these guys to come to campus or fly to meet them. Then turn around and hire the guy we liked all the time.
Everybody keeps talking about these “17 returning starters.” That doesn’t ever account for the fact that by the last quarter of the season, when we needed to win games, the guys who were actually playing DID NOT constitute 17 returning starters. Many of the starters from 2016 were battling injuries the last quarter of the season.
So, while the cupboard was not bare, there were a ton of freshman playing at RB, WR, OL, Secondary.
Millions of dollars? For a search firm for a couple weeks? Must be a good business.
it is a pretty lucrative business. Ok tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars that did not need to be squandered.
Are you making excuses? It does not matter that IU was dealing with injuries. That was coaches fault those kids got injured. Stop making excuse for IU underachieving.
The use of a false premise is the hallmark of a guy who just wants to start a fight. Not in real life, where his nose would be at risk on the playground. Just in cyber world, where the stupid comment/false premise can be stated as a fact without consequence.
If we hadn’t of hired Allen, we’d have lost our whole staff, not just the offensive staff.
We’d have lost many players too. History - she no lie.
We’d have won 1 or 2, and the same folks bitching about hiring Allen would have been bitching about whoever we hired.
And every agent for every “big name” the bitchers won’t name as someone they wanted (since they have to back it up and cant) would have said “not at any price.”
Hiring Allen was a stroke of genius, and winning 5 after firing Wilson and his offense and his offensive staff was a college football miracle.
And when Allen is finally recognized as the right guy, I’m gonna hound his detractors to the edge of hell - drive them into hiding and new fake names for fear of being recognized as the fools they have shown themselves to be. Wouldn’t hire them to wash jocks. Not qualified.
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Can you tell us how you really feel and stop sugar coating it. We could have had Les Miles damn it.
So much for search firms, huh?
Search firms are paid big money to find guys like.....Wilson. Yes, Wilson was found with the input of a search firm. You would think, at a minimum, if they properly vetted the guy they would have uncovered these “known” problems. Hell, I’d ask for a damn refund!
You can’t have it both ways, Larry. You want a national search with the help of input from firms that do this for a living but then bemoan the hire saying we “should have caught this or that.”
Cannot have it both ways in your argument.
It’s not about having it both ways. AD’s with experience hiring coaches have contacts in the industry who either offer endorsements or words of caution. Which coaching friends and contacts do you think Glass consulted with prior to hiring Wilson?
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Sometimes it is better to be lucky than good. IU ended up with the right guy. It was about time IU football caught a break with its coaching staff.
I know for fact that he consulted with Bill Polian and Tony Dungy. Glass has some connections in the sports world. More than you think.
Hey, your own Morgan Burke consulted Jim Tressel who put a big ol’ stamp of endorsement on Darrell Hazell. How did that turn out?
You know that he consulted with two pro guys about a college offensive coordinator? That makes my point about the cost of his inexperience.
Both of those guys have a huge network of guys throughout the football world, pro and college ranks.
If you don’t know that, I cannot help you here.
How close are you to Burke and Bobinski on your end?
How much experience and networking in college coaching do you think Sandy Barbour, Jennifer Cohen, Heather Lyke and Debbie Yow have?
You do know who these women are, right?
I wasn’t asking who Polian and Dungy are connected to, I was asking who Glass is / was connected to. If you don’t know that, I can’t help you here. And it remains that you continue to try and tie me to Purdue because I want IU to actually build a winning program. Such a strange reaction to what should be a common goal.
Maybe you should read your posts. True you don’t have to agree with everything that happens but you can’t disagree with everything and call yourself a fan. Maybe you are not s Purdue fan but it is easy to question being an IU fan.
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