My current take on Woody...version 173 or so...

[IUNorth]

This'll be a long one...fair warning...

Short version is I think he's a really, really good man, that isn't a good basketball coach.

Longer version...

The good man part...there are just too many stories and examples of people, on and off the basketball court, that use words like "love" and "friend" when describing Woody, that I think its ridiculous for any of us on this board to start questioning his character, or the type of man he is.

The basketball coach part... The more I think of it, I think he's just another example of a great basketball player, that isn't able to relate and/or teach the game of basketball. Michael Jordan comes to mind, Isaiah Thomas...there aren't a lot of good basketball coaches that were great basketball players. I think a lot of that is because its very difficult for those types of people to relate to players that aren't, in any way, on their level. I'm sure its frustrating for Woody that a kid like Mack can't step over into a gap and help, and then react and recover back to his man. I can see/hear Woody yelling at him in practices and in game huddles..."Why can't you figure this out? Help and recover, help and recover!"... An effective coach would have spent long periods of time from August to the start of the season teaching Mack...1) proper defensive stance (he rarely goes that correctly or effectively)...2)What it looks and feels like to attack the gap from helpside (Mack likely has no idea, and thinks he's doing it properly)...3)How to move and react to recover back on to his man (this is something that absolutely needs tought, and through lots of repetition). The evidence is showing that Woody has not invested the time teaching Mack the gritty details of effective help and recover defense.

I used this example because I think it covers a ton of other detail level issues, that I just don't think Woody knows how to, has the patience to, or feels like he should have to...teach his players at IU. Mack is one of the more gifted and talented players we've had at IU in a while, pure skill wise. But we're seeing that he's pretty raw, likely hasn't really ever been taught these fundamental things that we're seeing exposed right now. For that, I think its probably been very difficult, and frustrating, for Woody coaching him.

I also think this is why TJD, and JHS to a smaller extent, appeared to have blossomed or thrived under Woody. Trayce is on Woody's level...physically, skill wise, and probably his mentality as well. So it makes sense that he would have taken Woody's direction differently, and better, than a Mack would.

This brings me to what I think is probably Woody's biggest problem, as a basketball coach. His greatness as a player likely stemmed in no small part from being supremely confident in his own abilities. And I have no doubt he thinks that way about himself as a basketball coach too. You can here it in the way he talks in press conferences at times. Even though he does regularly say things like "Its on me..." or "I've got to be better..."...there are many, many other comments that scream that he doesn't believe those things, at all. And I think he has a HUGE lack of self awareness on all these shortcomings...or else he'd fix them!

So where do I go from here? And where should IU go from here?

I continue to follow IU basketball, and hope that Woody ends up being more like Larry Bird, than like Michael Jordan. Bird, one of the more confident basketball players to ever play the game, also learned when he got in to coaching, and in to managing basketball programs, that humility is very important. And because of that, I think, he was able to recognize that people below him needed help. Jordan, when it comes to coaching and managing, never found the humility side of things. And he's never been successful because of it. Jordan's success on the court, and with his own Jordan brand, is from his own force of nature skill and willpower. But managing a basketball program, either by coaching or deciding on the players, can't be done through osmosis, or by association.

IU decision makers need to decide what they want IU basketball to be. Obviously what we're seeing right now isn't it. But that doesn't automatically mean Woody should be fired. If there's any level of contrition on Woody's part, when he's talking with Dolson...ANY level of curiosity on how he can be better, on what needs to be done for the program to be better... Woodson has enough good things about him, that keeping him on wouldn't necessarily be a horrible decision. The BEST thing that could happen for IU basketball, right now, is for Woodson to "figure it out", and turn it around next year. And it wouldn't take a huge change for that to happen. A little bit of self awareness would lead to Woody knowing he needs help...good, go find a proven college basketball coach at some lower level, and hire him as an assistant coach. And then hit the recruiting trail...and use your awareness of your own shortcomings, and what's needed to be successful in college bball, to guide you on the kids you go after. You need proven leaders...you need proven winners...you need dynamic perimeter players...hell, you need players that have proven they can play consistently at a high level, on both ends of the court, for coaches and programs similar to yourself...OR, you need players that have played multiple years already for programs that you know will have drilled in to them core fundamental basketball principles. There's a reason why top Ivy League players often thrive as portal guys.

If Woodson doesn't show any contrition, doesn't show any signs of curiosity, between now and the end of the basketball season...I think you have to let him go. Another year like this will do quite a lot more harm to IU basketball's brand...and will further separate it from the wonderful legacy that McCracken and Knight built. Whatever the backlash, whatever the financial ramifications, you have to take those on by making the move immediately.

And if that's the move you make...the next hire needs to be a proven COLLEGE basketball coach. Someone that's widely lauded as a teacher of the game. Someone who's teams are solid and efficient. But that has shown an ability to adapt and change with the times. So someone that has shown an ability to improve their team in the portal, as an example. Someone that focuses heavily on perimeter play. That doesn't need to be any sort of "IU guy". If he comes and continues to do all those things effectively, he'll quickly become an "IU guy". He'll become a part of our rich history. And if he teaches and coaches the game the right way..."Knight's guys" will naturally all gravitate towards him and the program.

The only thing that's holding this very thin thread together right now between the team today, and all the rich history, former players, etc... Is the memory of Woodson playing for Knight in the early 80s. Its time for more than a thin thread. We need gorilla glue...and that will ONLY come from a basketball program that gets back to playing high level basketball, the right way. Efficient basketball on both ends of the court. Gritty, team oriented basketball that the fans can all recognize and be proud of.

If Woody is aware of that, and open to changing to get to that...keep him. If he's not, or if he's not, move on and find someone that will.

 

[bsmitty08]

This'll be a long one...fair warning...

Short version is I think he's a really, really good man, that isn't a good basketball coach.

Longer version...

The good man part...there are just too many stories and examples of people, on and off the basketball court, that use words like "love" and "friend" when describing Woody, that I think its ridiculous for any of us on this board to start questioning his character, or the type of man he is.

The basketball coach part... The more I think of it, I think he's just another example of a great basketball player, that isn't able to relate and/or teach the game of basketball. Michael Jordan comes to mind, Isaiah Thomas...there aren't a lot of good basketball coaches that were great basketball players. I think a lot of that is because its very difficult for those types of people to relate to players that aren't, in any way, on their level. I'm sure its frustrating for Woody that a kid like Mack can't step over into a gap and help, and then react and recover back to his man. I can see/hear Woody yelling at him in practices and in game huddles..."Why can't you figure this out? Help and recover, help and recover!"... An effective coach would have spent long periods of time from August to the start of the season teaching Mack...1) proper defensive stance (he rarely goes that correctly or effectively)...2)What it looks and feels like to attack the gap from helpside (Mack likely has no idea, and thinks he's doing it properly)...3)How to move and react to recover back on to his man (this is something that absolutely needs tought, and through lots of repetition). The evidence is showing that Woody has not invested the time teaching Mack the gritty details of effective help and recover defense.

I used this example because I think it covers a ton of other detail level issues, that I just don't think Woody knows how to, has the patience to, or feels like he should have to...teach his players at IU. Mack is one of the more gifted and talented players we've had at IU in a while, pure skill wise. But we're seeing that he's pretty raw, likely hasn't really ever been taught these fundamental things that we're seeing exposed right now. For that, I think its probably been very difficult, and frustrating, for Woody coaching him.

I also think this is why TJD, and JHS to a smaller extent, appeared to have blossomed or thrived under Woody. Trayce is on Woody's level...physically, skill wise, and probably his mentality as well. So it makes sense that he would have taken Woody's direction differently, and better, than a Mack would.

This brings me to what I think is probably Woody's biggest problem, as a basketball coach. His greatness as a player likely stemmed in no small part from being supremely confident in his own abilities. And I have no doubt he thinks that way about himself as a basketball coach too. You can here it in the way he talks in press conferences at times. Even though he does regularly say things like "Its on me..." or "I've got to be better..."...there are many, many other comments that scream that he doesn't believe those things, at all. And I think he has a HUGE lack of self awareness on all these shortcomings...or else he'd fix them!

So where do I go from here? And where should IU go from here?

I continue to follow IU basketball, and hope that Woody ends up being more like Larry Bird, than like Michael Jordan. Bird, one of the more confident basketball players to ever play the game, also learned when he got in to coaching, and in to managing basketball programs, that humility is very important. And because of that, I think, he was able to recognize that people below him needed help. Jordan, when it comes to coaching and managing, never found the humility side of things. And he's never been successful because of it. Jordan's success on the court, and with his own Jordan brand, is from his own force of nature skill and willpower. But managing a basketball program, either by coaching or deciding on the players, can't be done through osmosis, or by association.

IU decision makers need to decide what they want IU basketball to be. Obviously what we're seeing right now isn't it. But that doesn't automatically mean Woody should be fired. If there's any level of contrition on Woody's part, when he's talking with Dolson...ANY level of curiosity on how he can be better, on what needs to be done for the program to be better... Woodson has enough good things about him, that keeping him on wouldn't necessarily be a horrible decision. The BEST thing that could happen for IU basketball, right now, is for Woodson to "figure it out", and turn it around next year. And it wouldn't take a huge change for that to happen. A little bit of self awareness would lead to Woody knowing he needs help...good, go find a proven college basketball coach at some lower level, and hire him as an assistant coach. And then hit the recruiting trail...and use your awareness of your own shortcomings, and what's needed to be successful in college bball, to guide you on the kids you go after. You need proven leaders...you need proven winners...you need dynamic perimeter players...hell, you need players that have proven they can play consistently at a high level, on both ends of the court, for coaches and programs similar to yourself...OR, you need players that have played multiple years already for programs that you know will have drilled in to them core fundamental basketball principles. There's a reason why top Ivy League players often thrive as portal guys.

If Woodson doesn't show any contrition, doesn't show any signs of curiosity, between now and the end of the basketball season...I think you have to let him go. Another year like this will do quite a lot more harm to IU basketball's brand...and will further separate it from the wonderful legacy that McCracken and Knight built. Whatever the backlash, whatever the financial ramifications, you have to take those on by making the move immediately.

And if that's the move you make...the next hire needs to be a proven COLLEGE basketball coach. Someone that's widely lauded as a teacher of the game. Someone who's teams are solid and efficient. But that has shown an ability to adapt and change with the times. So someone that has shown an ability to improve their team in the portal, as an example. Someone that focuses heavily on perimeter play. That doesn't need to be any sort of "IU guy". If he comes and continues to do all those things effectively, he'll quickly become an "IU guy". He'll become a part of our rich history. And if he teaches and coaches the game the right way..."Knight's guys" will naturally all gravitate towards him and the program.

The only thing that's holding this very thin thread together right now between the team today, and all the rich history, former players, etc... Is the memory of Woodson playing for Knight in the early 80s. Its time for more than a thin thread. We need gorilla glue...and that will ONLY come from a basketball program that gets back to playing high level basketball, the right way. Efficient basketball on both ends of the court. Gritty, team oriented basketball that the fans can all recognize and be proud of.

If Woody is aware of that, and open to changing to get to that...keep him. If he's not, or if he's not, move on and find someone that will.

His coaching and roster construction leave a lot to be desired. I have no doubt he is a good man but he is not a good college basketball coach.
His teams are terrible fundamentally, they dont play hard, and they do not play smart basketball.
As far as recruiting goes…what is his plan? He does t recruit a team, he recruits individuals.
If I’m looking at current roster and everyone is coming back that can or should be back. I guarantee I have a PG and a playing guard in this class. Instead he chases all the 5 star kids instead of adding key pieces to a roster that will win and sustain winning. We are going to have a massive roster turnover next year and it will be refilled by all portal guys. This is not a plan for long term success.

 

[IUNorth]

His coaching and roster construction leave a lot to be desired. I have no doubt he is a good man but he is not a good college basketball coach.
His teams are terrible fundamentally, they dont play hard, and they do not play smart basketball.
As far as recruiting goes…what is his plan? He does t recruit a team, he recruits individuals.
If I’m looking at current roster and everyone is coming back that can or should be back. I guarantee I have a PG and a playing guard in this class. Instead he chases all the 5 star kids instead of adding key pieces to a roster that will win and sustain winning. We are going to have a massive roster turnover next year and it will be refilled by all portal guys. This is not a plan for long term success.

Agreed...do you think if he were even a little bit aware of the mistakes and shortcomings, that he could turn IU around?

I actually don't think we're THAT far off, and that it wouldn't take him completely changing who he is, to dramatically turn IU around.

To me, that's what makes my decision on Woody, right now, if I'm Dolson. Does Woody see there's a problem? Is he showing he's willing to fix the problems?

We all assume he doesn't see it, and/or isn't willing to change...I even used that as one of my main points. But do any of us really KNOW that?

Maybe Woody already has all these plans in place for this offseason? Maybe he's been open with Dolson about all this?

College coaches change their styles and roster construction all the time, especially these days with the portal. Maybe Woody is just a year later than he should have been recognizing and reacting?

I guess simply put...If Dolson feels Woody isn't going to change...let him go. If he genuinely feels like he's open to it, give him some more time.

 

[YOTHN]

Nothing is about him or his character or his place in the program lore. It's about the bottom line....winning. As a fan of the program, he should clearly understand where those expectations lie. I know he'd like to be the one to restore the program but it's becoming clear, he's not cut out for it at this time. Why turn a fanbase against you by forcing them to prolong this pain? It helps no one.

 

[Tammany Hall]

I actually don't think we're THAT far off, and that it wouldn't take him completely changing who he is, to dramatically turn IU around.

Great post, I don’t know though, I think we are really far off. Being ranked #100 and maybe not in the NIT, with one recruit signed and Ware and others probably others leaving is looking pretty grim. If Woody changes his approach are we really jumping 50-75 spots? And that’s just to be okay, not even close to elite. I think he would have to change too many things about his approach to fix everything.

I agree we need Woody (the coach) to change. I just can’t help but think the easiest way to change the coach, is to change the coach. If Woody could have adjusted he would have already.

Who knows. We’ll see what Dolson does.

 

[bsmitty08]

Agreed...do you think if he were even a little bit aware of the mistakes and shortcomings, that he could turn IU around?

I actually don't think we're THAT far off, and that it wouldn't take him completely changing who he is, to dramatically turn IU around.

To me, that's what makes my decision on Woody, right now, if I'm Dolson. Does Woody see there's a problem? Is he showing he's willing to fix the problems?

We all assume he doesn't see it, and/or isn't willing to change...I even used that as one of my main points. But do any of us really KNOW that?

Maybe Woody already has all these plans in place for this offseason? Maybe he's been open with Dolson about all this?

College coaches change their styles and roster construction all the time, especially these days with the portal. Maybe Woody is just a year later than he should have been recognizing and reacting?

I guess simply put...If Dolson feels Woody isn't going to change...let him go. If he genuinely feels like he's open to it, give him some more time.

Depends what Woody has in mind. I don’t see someone with long term goals at Iu by the way he is recruiting. If he was a long term guy at IU he would be making guys like Sisley a priority. Fill a roster that has 3-4 year players that want to wear the crimson and Cream. Not guys that give zero care how IU does as long as they get theirs

 

[IUNorth]

Nothing is about him or his character or his place in the program lore. It's about the bottom line....winning. As a fan of the program, he should clearly understand where those expectations lie. I know he'd like to be the one to restore the program but it's becoming clear, he's not cut out for it at this time. Why turn a fanbase against you by forcing them to prolong this pain? It helps no one.

In my opinion, its obvious Woody isn't the long term answer for IU. But could he be an effective bridge to that long term solution? Right now, its not looking great. But my main point is he's likely not as far off from being an effective bridge for another couple years, than it seems right now. And all it would take is awareness and willingness of the need to change some things.

Heck...find the MOST successful D2/D3/NAIA younger coach and bring him in for a couple years as a lead assistant. Tonegal at IWU, Moore at Grace, and/or whoever the top young D2/D3 coaches are that have shown consistent success as a coach and program builder. Bring in a couple of those guys as assistant coaches.

Nothing else has worked the last 30 years.

I just worry about canning Woody and moving to "the next guy" as an approach. Watching May's team get down by 25 to South Florida, by playing sloppy, uninspired basketball...looked familiar. Watching and seeing Beard's Ole Miss teams not able to beat ranked teams, or largely even be competitive with them...looks familiar. Seeing my main candidate, Matta's Butler team get destroyed at home to Creighton...looks familiar. Schertz at ISU losing 2 games after getting ranked...

I have no doubt those guys are better college coaches than Woody is, but are they THE long term answer?

Again...my premise on keeping him revolves around him seeing his shortcomings, and being open to fixing them. THAT is something worth prolonging, in my opinion...if only for another year or two.

 

[IUNorth]

Depends what Woody has in mind. I don’t see someone with long term goals at Iu by the way he is recruiting. If he was a long term guy at IU he would be making guys like Sisley a priority. Fill a roster that has 3-4 year players that want to wear the crimson and Cream. Not guys that give zero care how IU does as long as they get theirs

Not sure that route is necessary. And I do think he's recruited guys like that pretty consistently. Sisley is likely cooling on IU right now the same way everyone else is.

I think its very possible Woody had the same view many on this board had, including me...that X and Trey would lead this team a heck of a lot better than they have this year. Combine that with what one of my main premises was, that he isn't equipped yet to recognize, and then teach, the proper level of fundamentals...and we're seeing what a huge swing and a miss looks like.

Bring the right assistant in, that helps him recognize and teach the core fundamentals...AND if this past offseason ends up being a lesson Woody never forgets...and IU could turn it around very quickly.

Malik, Trey, Gabe, Kaleb, Payton, Jakai return...

McNeeley comes...

Woody gets 2 starter level perimeter players in the portal...that fit what I laid out as needs and what their makeup would need to be...

And he gets a couple good late HS signees that can either help, or solidify the program the next few years...

The biggest thing in all of this though, is whether or not Woody recognizes what he's doing now, and even up until this point, isn't working and he needs to change and fix it. If that isn't the case, he needs replaced immediately.

 

[Tammany Hall]

I would love for the next coach to have big school experience. Takes away the risk of making the leap from mid-major or smaller school to the more complex world of IUBB. Sampson has been our only hire with that experience, and he would have done well if he was smarter (and IU was a little more realistic about text msgs).

 

[bsmitty08]

Not sure that route is necessary. And I do think he's recruited guys like that pretty consistently. Sisley is likely cooling on IU right now the same way everyone else is.

I think its very possible Woody had the same view many on this board had, including me...that X and Trey would lead this team a heck of a lot better than they have this year. Combine that with what one of my main premises was, that he isn't equipped yet to recognize, and then teach, the proper level of fundamentals...and we're seeing what a huge swing and a miss looks like.

Bring the right assistant in, that helps him recognize and teach the core fundamentals...AND if this past offseason ends up being a lesson Woody never forgets...and IU could turn it around very quickly.

Malik, Trey, Gabe, Kaleb, Payton, Jakai return...

McNeeley comes...

Woody gets 2 starter level perimeter players in the portal...that fit what I laid out as needs and what their makeup would need to be...

And he gets a couple good late HS signees that can either help, or solidify the program the next few years...

The biggest thing in all of this though, is whether or not Woody recognizes what he's doing now, and even up until this point, isn't working and he needs to change and fix it. If that isn't the case, he needs replaced immediately.

Word is out that Woody isn’t hitting the recruiting trail hard. Especially Indiana high school coaches. He needs to win them over because Painter is kicking his butt on that front.
As far as roster, I dont see Banks back. There is a reason he is getting zero minutes and I’m guessing it’s because he has stated his intentions.
I think the experiment with Woody is over. This isn’t a long term fit. My “only” worry is who will IU get because OSU, Michigan and even Louisville will look like better jobs than IU.

 

[IUNorth]

Great post, I don’t know though, I think we are really far off. Being ranked #100 and maybe not in the NIT, with one recruit signed and Ware and others probably others leaving is looking pretty grim. If Woody changes his approach are we really jumping 50-75 spots? And that’s just to be okay, not even close to elite. I think he would have to change too many things about his approach to fix everything.

I agree we need Woody (the coach) to change. I just can’t help but think the easiest way to change the coach, is to change the coach. If Woody could have adjusted he would have already.

Who knows. We’ll see what Dolson does.

Obviously possible that you, and many others, including myself at times, are right...that Woody just isn't cut out for the job, and never will be.

And maybe its just that literally ALL the other, most talked about lately, replacement candidates have had some bad games recently...

I just can't help but wonder if a Woody that's open to change, isn't still the best choice for IU basketball, right now.

 

[Tammany Hall]

Obviously possible that you, and many others, including myself at times, are right...that Woody just isn't cut out for the job, and never will be.

And maybe its just that literally ALL the other, most talked about lately, replacement candidates have had some bad games recently...

I just can't help but wonder if a Woody that's open to change, isn't still the best choice for IU basketball, right now.

Beats me. I don't know what a changed Woody would look like or do.

 

[steelyvan]

In my opinion, its obvious Woody isn't the long term answer for IU. But could he be an effective bridge to that long term solution? Right now, its not looking great. But my main point is he's likely not as far off from being an effective bridge for another couple years, than it seems right now. And all it would take is awareness and willingness of the need to change some things.

Heck...find the MOST successful D2/D3/NAIA younger coach and bring him in for a couple years as a lead assistant. Tonegal at IWU, Moore at Grace, and/or whoever the top young D2/D3 coaches are that have shown consistent success as a coach and program builder. Bring in a couple of those guys as assistant coaches.

Nothing else has worked the last 30 years.

I just worry about canning Woody and moving to "the next guy" as an approach. Watching May's team get down by 25 to South Florida, by playing sloppy, uninspired basketball...looked familiar. Watching and seeing Beard's Ole Miss teams not able to beat ranked teams, or largely even be competitive with them...looks familiar. Seeing my main candidate, Matta's Butler team get destroyed at home to Creighton...looks familiar. Schertz at ISU losing 2 games after getting ranked...

I have no doubt those guys are better college coaches than Woody is, but are they THE long term answer?

Again...my premise on keeping him revolves around him seeing his shortcomings, and being open to fixing them. THAT is something worth prolonging, in my opinion...if only for another year or two.

May and FAU lost to South Florida and their coach who we should keep on our target list.

 

[CriticArisen]

I dunno about your thesis North-it doesn’t sound right to me. If just a matter of deciding to change and changing then surely Davis, Crean, or Archie would have stumbled on the magic transformation. I think there are baked in qualities that contribute significantly to being a top level coach. When I consider CMW so far it seems to me that he is already acting like a college coach rather than actually being a college coach. I don’t believe changing his acting role a bit will lead to national success.

Archie as an example could market coaching videos but he couldn’t coach, same issue with CMW but without the videos.

 

[Bucket Getter]

This'll be a long one...fair warning...

Short version is I think he's a really, really good man, that isn't a good basketball coach.

Longer version...

The good man part...there are just too many stories and examples of people, on and off the basketball court, that use words like "love" and "friend" when describing Woody, that I think its ridiculous for any of us on this board to start questioning his character, or the type of man he is.

The basketball coach part... The more I think of it, I think he's just another example of a great basketball player, that isn't able to relate and/or teach the game of basketball. Michael Jordan comes to mind, Isaiah Thomas...there aren't a lot of good basketball coaches that were great basketball players. I think a lot of that is because its very difficult for those types of people to relate to players that aren't, in any way, on their level. I'm sure its frustrating for Woody that a kid like Mack can't step over into a gap and help, and then react and recover back to his man. I can see/hear Woody yelling at him in practices and in game huddles..."Why can't you figure this out? Help and recover, help and recover!"... An effective coach would have spent long periods of time from August to the start of the season teaching Mack...1) proper defensive stance (he rarely goes that correctly or effectively)...2)What it looks and feels like to attack the gap from helpside (Mack likely has no idea, and thinks he's doing it properly)...3)How to move and react to recover back on to his man (this is something that absolutely needs tought, and through lots of repetition). The evidence is showing that Woody has not invested the time teaching Mack the gritty details of effective help and recover defense.

I used this example because I think it covers a ton of other detail level issues, that I just don't think Woody knows how to, has the patience to, or feels like he should have to...teach his players at IU. Mack is one of the more gifted and talented players we've had at IU in a while, pure skill wise. But we're seeing that he's pretty raw, likely hasn't really ever been taught these fundamental things that we're seeing exposed right now. For that, I think its probably been very difficult, and frustrating, for Woody coaching him.

I also think this is why TJD, and JHS to a smaller extent, appeared to have blossomed or thrived under Woody. Trayce is on Woody's level...physically, skill wise, and probably his mentality as well. So it makes sense that he would have taken Woody's direction differently, and better, than a Mack would.

This brings me to what I think is probably Woody's biggest problem, as a basketball coach. His greatness as a player likely stemmed in no small part from being supremely confident in his own abilities. And I have no doubt he thinks that way about himself as a basketball coach too. You can here it in the way he talks in press conferences at times. Even though he does regularly say things like "Its on me..." or "I've got to be better..."...there are many, many other comments that scream that he doesn't believe those things, at all. And I think he has a HUGE lack of self awareness on all these shortcomings...or else he'd fix them!

So where do I go from here? And where should IU go from here?

I continue to follow IU basketball, and hope that Woody ends up being more like Larry Bird, than like Michael Jordan. Bird, one of the more confident basketball players to ever play the game, also learned when he got in to coaching, and in to managing basketball programs, that humility is very important. And because of that, I think, he was able to recognize that people below him needed help. Jordan, when it comes to coaching and managing, never found the humility side of things. And he's never been successful because of it. Jordan's success on the court, and with his own Jordan brand, is from his own force of nature skill and willpower. But managing a basketball program, either by coaching or deciding on the players, can't be done through osmosis, or by association.

IU decision makers need to decide what they want IU basketball to be. Obviously what we're seeing right now isn't it. But that doesn't automatically mean Woody should be fired. If there's any level of contrition on Woody's part, when he's talking with Dolson...ANY level of curiosity on how he can be better, on what needs to be done for the program to be better... Woodson has enough good things about him, that keeping him on wouldn't necessarily be a horrible decision. The BEST thing that could happen for IU basketball, right now, is for Woodson to "figure it out", and turn it around next year. And it wouldn't take a huge change for that to happen. A little bit of self awareness would lead to Woody knowing he needs help...good, go find a proven college basketball coach at some lower level, and hire him as an assistant coach. And then hit the recruiting trail...and use your awareness of your own shortcomings, and what's needed to be successful in college bball, to guide you on the kids you go after. You need proven leaders...you need proven winners...you need dynamic perimeter players...hell, you need players that have proven they can play consistently at a high level, on both ends of the court, for coaches and programs similar to yourself...OR, you need players that have played multiple years already for programs that you know will have drilled in to them core fundamental basketball principles. There's a reason why top Ivy League players often thrive as portal guys.

If Woodson doesn't show any contrition, doesn't show any signs of curiosity, between now and the end of the basketball season...I think you have to let him go. Another year like this will do quite a lot more harm to IU basketball's brand...and will further separate it from the wonderful legacy that McCracken and Knight built. Whatever the backlash, whatever the financial ramifications, you have to take those on by making the move immediately.

And if that's the move you make...the next hire needs to be a proven COLLEGE basketball coach. Someone that's widely lauded as a teacher of the game. Someone who's teams are solid and efficient. But that has shown an ability to adapt and change with the times. So someone that has shown an ability to improve their team in the portal, as an example. Someone that focuses heavily on perimeter play. That doesn't need to be any sort of "IU guy". If he comes and continues to do all those things effectively, he'll quickly become an "IU guy". He'll become a part of our rich history. And if he teaches and coaches the game the right way..."Knight's guys" will naturally all gravitate towards him and the program.

The only thing that's holding this very thin thread together right now between the team today, and all the rich history, former players, etc... Is the memory of Woodson playing for Knight in the early 80s. Its time for more than a thin thread. We need gorilla glue...and that will ONLY come from a basketball program that gets back to playing high level basketball, the right way. Efficient basketball on both ends of the court. Gritty, team oriented basketball that the fans can all recognize and be proud of.

If Woody is aware of that, and open to changing to get to that...keep him. If he's not, or if he's not, move on and find someone that will.

1. I’d like to agree with most of this, but have serious doubts whether Woody has the humility to change much. Regardless of the 40 years in the NBA that has clearly shaped who he is and how he goes about his business, he’s 65+ years old. Never forget about old dogs and new tricks. It’s a timeless reminder steeped in truth.

2. Woody actually played in the late 70’s, not the early 80’s. But that point is 100% spot on. Without that thread connecting him to a better day, he’d be gone at midnight of the final game day this season. Dolson has the toughest call he’s ever been faced with coming soon. Does he have his scissors in his back pocket?

 

[kurt cloverdales]

Obviously possible that you, and many others, including myself at times, are right...that Woody just isn't cut out for the job, and never will be.

And maybe its just that literally ALL the other, most talked about lately, replacement candidates have had some bad games recently...

I just can't help but wonder if a Woody that's open to change, isn't still the best choice for IU basketball, right now.

to continue on this path is the worst choice. he's in his mid 60s how are you going to change him. if he was 40 maybe so, just need to rip the band aid off. if I don't need to see Ware goal tend another shot into the 15th row, or Walker coming into a game and immediately shooting a 3. or MM out reaching in near half court and players going right around him. watching this team trying to score in the half court is painful. is that all on the players or the system? Woodson needs to go at the end of the season I've seen enough.

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

before yesterday I didn't think there was snowballs chance in hell we'd lose out. This morning....I'm not so sure. We better beat Nebraska at home, because the rest of the schedule doesn't look good, especially when you factor in the effort yesterday. And losing out might be the only thing that brings change at the end of the year. We're dangerously close now to not even making it into the NIT. I don't think anyone would have accepted those results back in Sept....XJ injury or otherwise. X wasn't tearing it up when he was healthy and playing.

The early struggles against Cupcake U now make total sense. We have a respectable ensemble of talent but were never going to make a good team. The whole is actually LESS than the sum of the parts.

 

[CriticArisen]

I would agree with you about CMW as a person, and I loved him as a player, but something in the CMW, Dolson, Buckner triumvirate doesn’t seem right to me. I have a hard time understanding how everyone could have been acting in good faith for such an important decision and the incoming coach being clueless about what would be required to return to national contention and just embarking on an extended game of musical chairs and the quest for the hump.

 

[Bucket Getter]

I would agree with you about CMW as a person, and I loved him as a player, but something in the CMW, Dolson, Buckner triumvirate doesn’t seem right to me. I have a hard time understanding how everyone could have been acting in good faith for such an important decision and the incoming coach being clueless about what would be required to return to national contention and just embarking on an extended game of musical chairs and the quest for the hump.

Those final 5 words will be the movie title if they ever make a film of this season. 😂

 

[Ty Webb iu]

This'll be a long one...fair warning...

Short version is I think he's a really, really good man, that isn't a good basketball coach.

Longer version...

The good man part...there are just too many stories and examples of people, on and off the basketball court, that use words like "love" and "friend" when describing Woody, that I think its ridiculous for any of us on this board to start questioning his character, or the type of man he is.

The basketball coach part... The more I think of it, I think he's just another example of a great basketball player, that isn't able to relate and/or teach the game of basketball. Michael Jordan comes to mind, Isaiah Thomas...there aren't a lot of good basketball coaches that were great basketball players. I think a lot of that is because its very difficult for those types of people to relate to players that aren't, in any way, on their level. I'm sure its frustrating for Woody that a kid like Mack can't step over into a gap and help, and then react and recover back to his man. I can see/hear Woody yelling at him in practices and in game huddles..."Why can't you figure this out? Help and recover, help and recover!"... An effective coach would have spent long periods of time from August to the start of the season teaching Mack...1) proper defensive stance (he rarely goes that correctly or effectively)...2)What it looks and feels like to attack the gap from helpside (Mack likely has no idea, and thinks he's doing it properly)...3)How to move and react to recover back on to his man (this is something that absolutely needs tought, and through lots of repetition). The evidence is showing that Woody has not invested the time teaching Mack the gritty details of effective help and recover defense.

I used this example because I think it covers a ton of other detail level issues, that I just don't think Woody knows how to, has the patience to, or feels like he should have to...teach his players at IU. Mack is one of the more gifted and talented players we've had at IU in a while, pure skill wise. But we're seeing that he's pretty raw, likely hasn't really ever been taught these fundamental things that we're seeing exposed right now. For that, I think its probably been very difficult, and frustrating, for Woody coaching him.

I also think this is why TJD, and JHS to a smaller extent, appeared to have blossomed or thrived under Woody. Trayce is on Woody's level...physically, skill wise, and probably his mentality as well. So it makes sense that he would have taken Woody's direction differently, and better, than a Mack would.

This brings me to what I think is probably Woody's biggest problem, as a basketball coach. His greatness as a player likely stemmed in no small part from being supremely confident in his own abilities. And I have no doubt he thinks that way about himself as a basketball coach too. You can here it in the way he talks in press conferences at times. Even though he does regularly say things like "Its on me..." or "I've got to be better..."...there are many, many other comments that scream that he doesn't believe those things, at all. And I think he has a HUGE lack of self awareness on all these shortcomings...or else he'd fix them!

So where do I go from here? And where should IU go from here?

I continue to follow IU basketball, and hope that Woody ends up being more like Larry Bird, than like Michael Jordan. Bird, one of the more confident basketball players to ever play the game, also learned when he got in to coaching, and in to managing basketball programs, that humility is very important. And because of that, I think, he was able to recognize that people below him needed help. Jordan, when it comes to coaching and managing, never found the humility side of things. And he's never been successful because of it. Jordan's success on the court, and with his own Jordan brand, is from his own force of nature skill and willpower. But managing a basketball program, either by coaching or deciding on the players, can't be done through osmosis, or by association.

IU decision makers need to decide what they want IU basketball to be. Obviously what we're seeing right now isn't it. But that doesn't automatically mean Woody should be fired. If there's any level of contrition on Woody's part, when he's talking with Dolson...ANY level of curiosity on how he can be better, on what needs to be done for the program to be better... Woodson has enough good things about him, that keeping him on wouldn't necessarily be a horrible decision. The BEST thing that could happen for IU basketball, right now, is for Woodson to "figure it out", and turn it around next year. And it wouldn't take a huge change for that to happen. A little bit of self awareness would lead to Woody knowing he needs help...good, go find a proven college basketball coach at some lower level, and hire him as an assistant coach. And then hit the recruiting trail...and use your awareness of your own shortcomings, and what's needed to be successful in college bball, to guide you on the kids you go after. You need proven leaders...you need proven winners...you need dynamic perimeter players...hell, you need players that have proven they can play consistently at a high level, on both ends of the court, for coaches and programs similar to yourself...OR, you need players that have played multiple years already for programs that you know will have drilled in to them core fundamental basketball principles. There's a reason why top Ivy League players often thrive as portal guys.

If Woodson doesn't show any contrition, doesn't show any signs of curiosity, between now and the end of the basketball season...I think you have to let him go. Another year like this will do quite a lot more harm to IU basketball's brand...and will further separate it from the wonderful legacy that McCracken and Knight built. Whatever the backlash, whatever the financial ramifications, you have to take those on by making the move immediately.

And if that's the move you make...the next hire needs to be a proven COLLEGE basketball coach. Someone that's widely lauded as a teacher of the game. Someone who's teams are solid and efficient. But that has shown an ability to adapt and change with the times. So someone that has shown an ability to improve their team in the portal, as an example. Someone that focuses heavily on perimeter play. That doesn't need to be any sort of "IU guy". If he comes and continues to do all those things effectively, he'll quickly become an "IU guy". He'll become a part of our rich history. And if he teaches and coaches the game the right way..."Knight's guys" will naturally all gravitate towards him and the program.

The only thing that's holding this very thin thread together right now between the team today, and all the rich history, former players, etc... Is the memory of Woodson playing for Knight in the early 80s. Its time for more than a thin thread. We need gorilla glue...and that will ONLY come from a basketball program that gets back to playing high level basketball, the right way. Efficient basketball on both ends of the court. Gritty, team oriented basketball that the fans can all recognize and be proud of.

If Woody is aware of that, and open to changing to get to that...keep him. If he's not, or if he's not, move on and find someone that will.

Jordan has never coached. We have no idea how he would have done as a coach. I don't agree with your last paragraph. We know what Woody is. It's time to move on.

 

[Bucket Getter]

Jordan has never coached. We have no idea how he would have done as a coach. I don't agree with your last paragraph. We know what Woody is. It's time to move on.

Who do you think coached the Bulls all those years? 😳

 

[Ty Webb iu]

Who do you think coached the Bulls all those years? 😳

Then he's a great coach. One of the best ever.

 

[Ty Webb iu]

Who do you think coached the Bulls all those years? 😳

Phil Jackson

 

[IUNorth]

I dunno about your thesis North-it doesn’t sound right to me. If just a matter of deciding to change and changing then surely Davis, Crean, or Archie would have stumbled on the magic transformation. I think there are baked in qualities that contribute significantly to being a top level coach. When I consider CMW so far it seems to me that he is already acting like a college coach rather than actually being a college coach. I don’t believe changing his acting role a bit will lead to national success.

Archie as an example could market coaching videos but he couldn’t coach, same issue with CMW but without the videos.

Basically I'm playing the devil's advocate role...and trying to make it make sense.

But I do think there's a pathway to Woody finishing his time at IU as more of a success than its feeling right now.

And that includes him changing his approach, and IU actively working with him and through him to bridging to the next guy.

No matter who the coach is, IU needs to take steps to becoming more "current".

Firing Woody and finding the next guy is an obvious step, and at this point, I think Dolson would be supported by enough people to make it happen.

But I don't think that's the ONLY viable step.

Woody's tenure at IU, likely no matter what he does, isn't going to be more than another year or two. I see potential for those remaining years to be more positive than it seems right now. 1 new assitant, and 2 key portal guys, isn't a monumental change.

 

[Bucket Getter]

Basically I'm playing the devil's advocate role...and trying to make it make sense.

But I do think there's a pathway to Woody finishing his time at IU as more of a success than its feeling right now.

And that includes him changing his approach, and IU actively working with him and through him to bridging to the next guy.

No matter who the coach is, IU needs to take steps to becoming more "current".

Firing Woody and finding the next guy is an obvious step, and at this point, I think Dolson would be supported by enough people to make it happen.

But I don't think that's the ONLY viable step.

Woody's tenure at IU, likely no matter what he does, isn't going to be more than another year or two. I see potential for those remaining years to be more positive than it seems right now. 1 new assitant, and 2 key portal guys, isn't a monumental change.

Which assistant gets canned? I can’t see any value in any of them. And I damn sure can’t see keeping his buddy around any longer. Sell that seat to whoever is the NIL sponsor of the game.

 

[IUNorth]

Jordan has never coached. We have no idea how he would have done as a coach. I don't agree with your last paragraph. We know what Woody is. It's time to move on.

His first string of years in Charlotte, he was very active with the team...coaching (not officially), roster construction, day to day at practices... Jordan himself spoke publicly numerous times about why he never formally tried coaching. So I guess he did have that awareness...but in reality, he never acted as if he did in his roster construction decisions, coaching decisions, etc...

 

[CriticArisen]

Reminds me of the story that Jerry Krause told MJ the old adage-There is no I in team and Jordan answered but there is in win.

 

[Ty Webb iu]

Basically I'm playing the devil's advocate role...and trying to make it make sense.

But I do think there's a pathway to Woody finishing his time at IU as more of a success than its feeling right now.

And that includes him changing his approach, and IU actively working with him and through him to bridging to the next guy.

No matter who the coach is, IU needs to take steps to becoming more "current".

Firing Woody and finding the next guy is an obvious step, and at this point, I think Dolson would be supported by enough people to make it happen.

But I don't think that's the ONLY viable step.

Woody's tenure at IU, likely no matter what he does, isn't going to be more than another year or two. I see potential for those remaining years to be more positive than it seems right now. 1 new assitant, and 2 key portal guys, isn't a monumental change.

Dude is what, nearly 66 years old. He ain't changing shit at this point. Anyone that thinks that is anything more than a pipe dream is nuts, imo. Change is needed. Bring in the next guy.

 

[steelyvan]

And perhaps not a monumental improvement.

 

[Ty Webb iu]

His first string of years in Charlotte, he was very active with the team...coaching (not officially), roster construction, day to day at practices... Jordan himself spoke publicly numerous times about why he never formally tried coaching. So I guess he did have that awareness...but in reality, he never acted as if he did in his roster construction decisions, coaching decisions, etc...

So, he coached it up in Charlotte and they lost big, but you don't think he coached it up in Chicago, where he was a huge part of a dynasty? That's logical.

 

[Bucket Getter]

So, he coached it up in Charlotte and they lost big, but you don't think he coached it up in Chicago, where he was a huge part of a dynasty? That's logical.

Calm down Ty. It’s a holiday. Enjoy your day off.

 

[IUNorth]

Beats me. I don't know what a changed Woody would look like or do.

He was very resistant to this approach initially at IU...and it didn't work. But maybe after 3 years, the last of which being an abject failure, he'd be more open to something sort of similar to the original setup?

But maybe this time he's the one that gets to choose a "Dane Fife/Phil Martelli" type assistant coach?

Woody himself doesn't have to change a ton. He can be the CEO...he just needs a lot better COO, CFO, etc...

It doesn't always go that way in the business world, and it rarely goes that way in the sporting world. But I think Woody has enough recruiting pull, and the right temperament, that if he were to bring in some more competent assistants below him...he could have a successful finish at IU.

This one won't make sense to most..but it does to me. Archie wasn't capable of leading IU basketball because his personality, energy, etc... wasn't a good fit, at IU. And that infected his teams play. But Archie did effectively teach, and coach, core fundamentals. His teams were solid defensively and offensively. He just didn't have that extra gear, to make them great at anything. Archie was the one that never "got over the hump"...but I think his ability to teach the game of basketball, put them up against that hump regularly. Obviously NOT advocating for Archie as an assistant coach...just that having someone on the bench with that mindset...combined with a guy like Woody as the public leader, lead recruiter, etc... Could work well.

We all liked Woody's personality A LOT more in years 1 and 2, when it appeared we were headed in the right direction.

 

[kraft cheese+macaroni]

This'll be a long one...fair warning...

Short version is I think he's a really, really good man, that isn't a good basketball coach.

Longer version...

The good man part...there are just too many stories and examples of people, on and off the basketball court, that use words like "love" and "friend" when describing Woody, that I think its ridiculous for any of us on this board to start questioning his character, or the type of man he is.

The basketball coach part... The more I think of it, I think he's just another example of a great basketball player, that isn't able to relate and/or teach the game of basketball. Michael Jordan comes to mind, Isaiah Thomas...there aren't a lot of good basketball coaches that were great basketball players. I think a lot of that is because its very difficult for those types of people to relate to players that aren't, in any way, on their level. I'm sure its frustrating for Woody that a kid like Mack can't step over into a gap and help, and then react and recover back to his man. I can see/hear Woody yelling at him in practices and in game huddles..."Why can't you figure this out? Help and recover, help and recover!"... An effective coach would have spent long periods of time from August to the start of the season teaching Mack...1) proper defensive stance (he rarely goes that correctly or effectively)...2)What it looks and feels like to attack the gap from helpside (Mack likely has no idea, and thinks he's doing it properly)...3)How to move and react to recover back on to his man (this is something that absolutely needs tought, and through lots of repetition). The evidence is showing that Woody has not invested the time teaching Mack the gritty details of effective help and recover defense.

I used this example because I think it covers a ton of other detail level issues, that I just don't think Woody knows how to, has the patience to, or feels like he should have to...teach his players at IU. Mack is one of the more gifted and talented players we've had at IU in a while, pure skill wise. But we're seeing that he's pretty raw, likely hasn't really ever been taught these fundamental things that we're seeing exposed right now. For that, I think its probably been very difficult, and frustrating, for Woody coaching him.

I also think this is why TJD, and JHS to a smaller extent, appeared to have blossomed or thrived under Woody. Trayce is on Woody's level...physically, skill wise, and probably his mentality as well. So it makes sense that he would have taken Woody's direction differently, and better, than a Mack would.

This brings me to what I think is probably Woody's biggest problem, as a basketball coach. His greatness as a player likely stemmed in no small part from being supremely confident in his own abilities. And I have no doubt he thinks that way about himself as a basketball coach too. You can here it in the way he talks in press conferences at times. Even though he does regularly say things like "Its on me..." or "I've got to be better..."...there are many, many other comments that scream that he doesn't believe those things, at all. And I think he has a HUGE lack of self awareness on all these shortcomings...or else he'd fix them!

So where do I go from here? And where should IU go from here?

I continue to follow IU basketball, and hope that Woody ends up being more like Larry Bird, than like Michael Jordan. Bird, one of the more confident basketball players to ever play the game, also learned when he got in to coaching, and in to managing basketball programs, that humility is very important. And because of that, I think, he was able to recognize that people below him needed help. Jordan, when it comes to coaching and managing, never found the humility side of things. And he's never been successful because of it. Jordan's success on the court, and with his own Jordan brand, is from his own force of nature skill and willpower. But managing a basketball program, either by coaching or deciding on the players, can't be done through osmosis, or by association.

IU decision makers need to decide what they want IU basketball to be. Obviously what we're seeing right now isn't it. But that doesn't automatically mean Woody should be fired. If there's any level of contrition on Woody's part, when he's talking with Dolson...ANY level of curiosity on how he can be better, on what needs to be done for the program to be better... Woodson has enough good things about him, that keeping him on wouldn't necessarily be a horrible decision. The BEST thing that could happen for IU basketball, right now, is for Woodson to "figure it out", and turn it around next year. And it wouldn't take a huge change for that to happen. A little bit of self awareness would lead to Woody knowing he needs help...good, go find a proven college basketball coach at some lower level, and hire him as an assistant coach. And then hit the recruiting trail...and use your awareness of your own shortcomings, and what's needed to be successful in college bball, to guide you on the kids you go after. You need proven leaders...you need proven winners...you need dynamic perimeter players...hell, you need players that have proven they can play consistently at a high level, on both ends of the court, for coaches and programs similar to yourself...OR, you need players that have played multiple years already for programs that you know will have drilled in to them core fundamental basketball principles. There's a reason why top Ivy League players often thrive as portal guys.

If Woodson doesn't show any contrition, doesn't show any signs of curiosity, between now and the end of the basketball season...I think you have to let him go. Another year like this will do quite a lot more harm to IU basketball's brand...and will further separate it from the wonderful legacy that McCracken and Knight built. Whatever the backlash, whatever the financial ramifications, you have to take those on by making the move immediately.

And if that's the move you make...the next hire needs to be a proven COLLEGE basketball coach. Someone that's widely lauded as a teacher of the game. Someone who's teams are solid and efficient. But that has shown an ability to adapt and change with the times. So someone that has shown an ability to improve their team in the portal, as an example. Someone that focuses heavily on perimeter play. That doesn't need to be any sort of "IU guy". If he comes and continues to do all those things effectively, he'll quickly become an "IU guy". He'll become a part of our rich history. And if he teaches and coaches the game the right way..."Knight's guys" will naturally all gravitate towards him and the program.

The only thing that's holding this very thin thread together right now between the team today, and all the rich history, former players, etc... Is the memory of Woodson playing for Knight in the early 80s. Its time for more than a thin thread. We need gorilla glue...and that will ONLY come from a basketball program that gets back to playing high level basketball, the right way. Efficient basketball on both ends of the court. Gritty, team oriented basketball that the fans can all recognize and be proud of.

If Woody is aware of that, and open to changing to get to that...keep him. If he's not, or if he's not, move on and find someone that will.

While generally I agree with your post, I have two questions/comments:

1. McTaco has shown more development this year than any other player, from beginning of season to now, so I'm not sure he's exactly the best example to use to make this point.
2. When did Jordan coach? You reference his inability to coach multiple times. He's never coached.

 

[CriticArisen]

Basically I'm playing the devil's advocate role...and trying to make it make sense.

But I do think there's a pathway to Woody finishing his time at IU as more of a success than its feeling right now.

And that includes him changing his approach, and IU actively working with him and through him to bridging to the next guy.

No matter who the coach is, IU needs to take steps to becoming more "current".

Firing Woody and finding the next guy is an obvious step, and at this point, I think Dolson would be supported by enough people to make it happen.

But I don't think that's the ONLY viable step.

Woody's tenure at IU, likely no matter what he does, isn't going to be more than another year or two. I see potential for those remaining years to be more positive than it seems right now. 1 new assitant, and 2 key portal guys, isn't a monumental change.

If not on the path to national contention then for me wrong path but okay, fingers crossed we beat Northwestern at home next year.

 

[IUNorth]

So, he coached it up in Charlotte and they lost big, but you don't think he coached it up in Chicago, where he was a huge part of a dynasty? That's logical.

No...the Chicago team dynamic wasn't, in any way, shape, or form similar to his first few years in Charlotte. He actually had competent management and coaching around him in Chicago...which is my point, obviously.

Not surprising, at all, that you're missing it.

 

[IUNorth]

While generally I agree with your post, I have two questions/comments:

1. McTaco has shown more development this year than any other player, from beginning of season to now, so I'm not sure he's exactly the best example to use to make this point.
2. When did Jordan coach? You reference his inability to coach multiple times. He's never coached.

Its a widely held belief that "coaching" was part of his daily activities in his early years in Charlotte. To the point where he was constantly fielding questions on why he didn't just formally take it over.

 

[IUNorth]

If not on the path to national contention then for me wrong path but okay, fingers crossed we beat Northwestern at home next year.

Its been 30 years...

Just floating that the path back to that might not be canning Woody after this year.

And I've been one of his biggest critics, on and off, since his original hire.

 

[kraft cheese+macaroni]

Its a widely held belief that "coaching" was part of his daily activities in his early years in Charlotte. To the point where he was constantly fielding questions on why he didn't just formally take it over.

meh

 

[IUNorth]

Dude is what, nearly 66 years old. He ain't changing shit at this point. Anyone that things that is anything more than a pipe dream is nuts, imo. Change is needed. Bring in the next guy.

Very possible. But facing being shit canned, and being seen as a complete failure, can change even old dogs.

I worry about this very thing with Woody, it was one of my main points on why he's failing at IU.

But IF he's open to it, IF he's willing to make a few changes...its more than possible he could turn this whole thing around and finish well at IU.

And that finish doesn't have to be a Natty next year, obviously.

 

[YOTHN]

In my opinion, its obvious Woody isn't the long term answer for IU. But could he be an effective bridge to that long term solution? Right now, its not looking great. But my main point is he's likely not as far off from being an effective bridge for another couple years, than it seems right now. And all it would take is awareness and willingness of the need to change some things.

Heck...find the MOST successful D2/D3/NAIA younger coach and bring him in for a couple years as a lead assistant. Tonegal at IWU, Moore at Grace, and/or whoever the top young D2/D3 coaches are that have shown consistent success as a coach and program builder. Bring in a couple of those guys as assistant coaches.

Nothing else has worked the last 30 years.

I just worry about canning Woody and moving to "the next guy" as an approach. Watching May's team get down by 25 to South Florida, by playing sloppy, uninspired basketball...looked familiar. Watching and seeing Beard's Ole Miss teams not able to beat ranked teams, or largely even be competitive with them...looks familiar. Seeing my main candidate, Matta's Butler team get destroyed at home to Creighton...looks familiar. Schertz at ISU losing 2 games after getting ranked...

I have no doubt those guys are better college coaches than Woody is, but are they THE long term answer?

Again...my premise on keeping him revolves around him seeing his shortcomings, and being open to fixing them. THAT is something worth prolonging, in my opinion...if only for another year or two.

Oh I got what you're saying. Woody isn't close and this program isn't close. We need a new leader. End of story. Next topic.