Of course not. But at some point in this thread people are trying to convince themselves that entry level jobs in a business - doing business things - are attainable without a business or Econ degree.
IU is a middling academic school
- Thread starter BradStevens
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Big Ten schools ranked academically by U.S. News for 2024
Ranking Big Ten schools by most recent academic supremacy!wolverineswire.usatoday.com
To me, this is more disappointing than our decades of irrelevance in athletics.
I'm sorry, what is the criteria exactly in this article? Iowa is ranked higher by USNWR than IU, but lower on this chart.
There's also the issue of lacking context. For example, I probably know more successful USC guys in business than UCLA (not by much, but noticeably). UCLA's acceptance rate is going to be smaller because of demand for the best public school in SoCal.
Similarly, Illinois is the only worthwhile public school in the entire state. There is a dramatic fall off before you hit ISU, UIC or the directionals.
That doesn't mean that I don't wish IU wasn't better, but the state has a smaller population than Chicagoland and better public schools.
Kids will usually do pretty well in life when they leave college knowing how to work hard with an understanding of something they love to do other than watching Tik Toks or drinking beer. Kids very often end up as unhappy adults when they do something just because it's what their parents wanted them to do.
FYI, from what I hear, teachers in Indiana have a pretty good retirement system. As you know, they have a monthly pension based on a formula of years of experience and top 5 years of salary. Then, on top of that, districts pay into a lump sum annuity.
Now, back in the day, TRF didn't really educate its members about the annuity, and many didn't know that if they placed a percentage of it in an aggressive investment situation, then forgot about it for a couple of decades (especially around 2008) and the market did well, they would be better off than going with the default setting, which was very safe, but low returns. If the person put, say 90% in aggressive investments, they would notice pretty decent growth when the later 50s rolled around...maybe not retire at 50 money, but certainly, say, 58. And teachers in Indiana, unlike some states, also pay into SS.
TRF has since made sure to include much more education on the advantages of not just letting your annuity sit there and make minimal gains. And, if a married couple are both teachers, then they will technically have 4 sources of income (pensions and SS), as well as two pretty good sized annuities, which they can roll over and continue to invest upon retirement, especially if they both went the 90% route and left it all alone.
Or, at least I have been told. I don't understand all that fancy talk, but I think that's the gist of it.
Now, teachers will never be millionaires like most of the posters here, but it sounds like a comfortable retirement is possible at an early enough age to enjoy it.
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Depends on what you are seeking. Undergrad B-Schools (Ross is probably the best at UofM) do a great job preparing kids to actually make an impact. No question some of the other kids are better on paper, but in terms of picking things up quickly and getting the job done in the first year, lib arts isn't always the right way.
They aren't hiring a Northwestern business major. It doesn't have an undergrad one. Somehow those NU kids get hired. Lots of recruiting out of history, poli-sci, econ, MMSS, sociology, communication studies, etc. Humanities education offers a ton of different opportunities if you are smart about the courses you take and do well at them.
That's been my experience as well. Nobody hires somebody to do "business". They get hired into specific roles that require different specific skill sets. Expecting kids to have it all figured out by 22 is a recipe for disaster.
I was 50 when I retired from the Navy. I didn’t have to work after, but I wasn’t ready to not work and I got offered too much to turn down.
My crowd hate law
I went to Naval Engineering school before my first ship because my first assignment was in the ship’s Engineering Department. It didn’t result in a degree, but it was three months of classes 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. It wasn’t a walk in the park and I’ve had many conversations with those that have Engineering degrees and I’m on the same playing field most of the time.
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I think your numbers are a little high. It's like 10k undergrad and another 2500 in post grad (MBA). Something like 2300-2500 undergrad degrees per year. Avg starting salary is almost $80k, which ain't a bad ROI.
a well educated person can think, write, and talk systematically and clearly, is creative, is a problem solver, can conceptualize complexities and organize and simplify them. Law schools certainly provide the opportunity to learn those skills, but it isn’t the only discipline to do that. And not every law student gets it. Math, philosophy, and literature also come to mind.Why are the lawyers on this site dissing those of us with business undergraduate degrees?I have two postgraduate degrees too, and based on what I've seen here I don't think it would be too tough to add a law degree too, just for grins and giggles because I plan to retire-retire (military-civilian) in August.
I think many college disciplines are actually trade schools, the focus is not on educating, but in delivering skills important to be a successful employee in the chosen discipline. Those with the education I mentioned above are the ones who rise to the highest levels and are employers, not employees.
This isn’t to put down business degrees, I just think the educational mission is different. And this is also not intended to put a law degree on a higher level, there are many bums who have a JD.
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Until the Boomers hit college, any college degree could get you in the door of most companies. It's an entirely different world now. I still believe a liberal arts major makes you more 'educated', but you'd better be prepared to go to grad school if you want to be financially secure. Unless your dad owns the company or you have another 'in'.
Sure there are other paths... But if the end goal is to be in the corp world why would one choose the much more difficult path?
Same. Gender Studies didn't really do it for me.
Well, first BadWakeBoarder disagrees with you that there are other paths and that's what we were debating.
Second, the corporate world isn't everyone's end goal and it's not the only option if you want to be "in business."
Third, maybe you want all the benefits that a liberal arts education provides.
Fourth, I disagree that getting a non-business degree is a more difficult path. Doesn't seem to be for those who attend Harvard, Yale, Princeton, U of Chicago, etc.
Bitch ask that mother f*ucker down at southeast Missouri State with a communications degree why Centene ain’t writing back.
Go to Princeton doors will open. Part your hair like kush run in the right circle. Wear a bespoke suit no sweat. But for the average Joe at mizzou, IU , FSU I think studying business will be an easier path than humanities. I think ranger twenty are right
You're kind of comparing apples to oranges, though, right?
The proper comp would be the kid coming out of high school with the same SAT, GPA applying to Kelley vs. a better university but not it's biz school.
Is Davidson well regarded?
I was thinking a Kelley grad vs. U of M liberal arts. I agree that not all liberal arts are the same--I don't count woowoo majors and think they, too, should be eliminated from universities (Gender Studies, AA Studies, etc.) and I would strongly advise against them if my kids want to major or minor in them.
All this said, my kids probably won't listen to me. My son talks all the time about how rich he is going to be, and I'm always trying to teach him money doesn't lead to fulfillment, but he doesn't get it. Hopefully, he will one day.
All fair. Yes Davidson is a great school. Probably 15 percent admitted. Snobby smart kids.
You guys are over complicating things. IU’s academic rating started its decline around the same time this board started its ascent. 🤔
My daughter was accepted at Kelley (and offered some money).
She's a freshman at Tennessee in marketing. 4.0 first semester and on her way for the same this semester.
She's a freshman at Tennessee in marketing. 4.0 first semester and on her way for the same this semester.
Of course there are “other paths”. But they’re rare - and rely on an expensive degree or a favor/nepotism or a specialized role.
It’s very simple: a college kid that wants to rise in a large business (on the business side of things doing marketing or finance or accounting) needs to get in on the ground floor. Unless it’s a tech company where an engineering degree is preferred, the business or Econ degree is virtually the only way.
We all end up a pile of dust. The original purpose of undergraduate studies is the arts, sciences, and humanities. Cost has perverted the purpose of undergrad. Pondering the purpose of existence, the universe, and humanity is the essential endeavor of being a human being and what 18-22 year olds in undergrad should be doing. If a person gets out of undergrad without reading Shakespeare, a history book, The Federalist Papers, etc., then their undergrad time was a waste.
You don't need a college degree to engage in business or work an entry level job. Anybody can start their own business. Jobs and Gates were dropouts. If a person wants to work for somebody in the corporate world or specialize, get a master's degree in Business after undergrad.
You don't need a college degree to engage in business or work an entry level job. Anybody can start their own business. Jobs and Gates were dropouts. If a person wants to work for somebody in the corporate world or specialize, get a master's degree in Business after undergrad.
This is 100% true but is not what we’re debating.
Wow, another QBA major from IU. While my world has primarily been in finance, I was told the same thing, that QBA had the highest starting average salary from IUB. While M215/216, and K 325/327 all sucked, I am glad that I stayed with it. Our youngest is currently a Kelley student, and I wouldn't encourage him to change.
Jeebus, you must have come from an affluent family. I grew up in a trailer park. I was a good student and scored over 1200 on the SAT (not Ivy level) and planned to go to college, but I knew it would be on my own dime. Applying to Harvard and Yale wasn’t a possibility. Frankly, I only wanted to go to IU. I thought I could afford it. I thought I’d be a lawyer like you, but it wasn’t practical. I did the logical thing and it worked out very well for me. I think it’s a great choice, especially for those that aren’t coming from affluent families. The reason my daughter didn’t do a more practical degree is likely because it wasn’t on her dime.
Too bad we didn’t learn to think. 😉
IU is not, nor has ever been, in the same class of schools as those.
Like comparing apples and bowling balls. Not really sure what point you are trying to make, but yeah.... If one can get into an ivy (or close) and can afford to go, then one should do so.
Those are basically the only level of institutions that are worth the cost. Beyond those the much better choice is attending the best suited in-state public option. I'd only recommend IU to in-state students too. It's not worth $40k/yr tuition. $11k sure.
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That's a romantic notion... And was based on a time when only the elites of society and/or the most very academically gifted attended university. Prior to 1980 only like 10-15% of the population had a college degree. Prior to 1970 it was like 6%
