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"Hopefully, you will give me credit."

The Air Force (along with SecDef Jim Mattis) deserves credit for a major "assist" by purposely (or inadvertently [unlikely]) allowing their Stealth bomber exercise radio traffic to be monitored by ham operators while over Kansas. Those exercises were interpreted as "bunker busting" operations...;):D

///It has been openly discussed in the press that an attack was scheduled for sometime in April.///
 
Well, I know the Armistice didn’t allow Marines to be stationed in the Country permanently. I was with a 5-7 man team that was stationed in Pohang which was part of the Pusan perimeter (I trained Korean Marines for a year and worked/moved with UN assets around the country). Our cook Mr. Cho , was a child during the Korean War and watched from the hills as both sides artilleried each other.... it was interesting to hear him talk.

EDIT: we lived for an entire year with the 2nd Korean Marine Division on their base


Marines to this day are like movie stars there. I know I’m on many a mantle... I gave a pre-written speech for a dinner in my Blues with the ambassador and Korean commandant in attendance. I still have the personal gifts..... I met my wife that weekend.

Have to chuckle a bit that the Armistice Agreement didn't allow Marines to be stationed in country. ;) The North Koreans knew Marines on the Pusan Perimeter (now known as "Busan") by the color of their "leggings"(we call them "gaiters" these days). The NK's rapidly learned to avoid the the "yellow legs" (their bleached out leggings/gaiters that kept gravel+ out of your boot tops). Guess the NK's had literally "had enough"... Nobody ever said they were stupid...:D
 
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Thanks, I will add it to my kindle.
Hijack:

I just finished this book and I highly recommend it. A great read:

https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/209254/rise-and-kill-first-by-ronen-bergman/9781400069712/

9781400069712
 
Having direct talks with the President of the US is a win for North Korea and makes Kim look strong with his people.

http://www.newsweek.com/trumps-meet...korean-dictator-look-more-powerful-say-837799

Newsweek said:
Yet “Kim is not inviting Trump so that he can surrender North Korea's weapons,” wrote Jeffrey Lewis, a nuclear nonproliferation expert at the Middlebury Institute of Strategic Studies, on Twitter. “Kim is inviting Trump to demonstrate that his investment in nuclear and missile capabilities has forced the United States to treat him as an equal.”

“This is literally how the North Korean film The Country I Saw ends. An American President visits Pyongyang, compelled by North Korea's nuclear and missile programs to treat a Kim as an equal,” Lewis wrote. The 1988 propaganda film was made during the reign of Kim’s father Kim Jong Il.

They're just not testing nukes/missiles until the meeting, so they haven't given up anything really yet.

I'm glad there's a chance to avert a war, but so far Trump is getting played. Given he agrees with the last person he talks to, I'm not sure the summit will go well for the US if it happens.

The only realistic long-term way out I see is a peace treaty to end the Korean War officially, with North Korea giving up nukes, the border being demilitarized, free movement for North Koreans, sanctions being dropped, and the US eventually withdrawing its troops (assuming compliance by North Korea over a decade-long timeframe or so). Not sure that's enough for either side to agree.
 
Having direct talks with the President of the US is a win for North Korea and makes Kim look strong with his people.

http://www.newsweek.com/trumps-meet...korean-dictator-look-more-powerful-say-837799



They're just not testing nukes/missiles until the meeting, so they haven't given up anything really yet.

I'm glad there's a chance to avert a war, but so far Trump is getting played. Given he agrees with the last person he talks to, I'm not sure the summit will go well for the US if it happens.

The only realistic long-term way out I see is a peace treaty to end the Korean War officially, with North Korea giving up nukes, the border being demilitarized, free movement for North Koreans, sanctions being dropped, and the US eventually withdrawing its troops (assuming compliance by North Korea over a decade-long timeframe or so). Not sure that's enough for either side to agree.

Another gem for the "no shit" file. So the "nuclear nonproliferation expert at the Middlebury Institute of Strategic Studies," has tweeted that "Kim is inviting Trump to demonstrate that his investment in nuclear and missile capabilities has forced the United States to treat him as an equal.” So what? I can assure said "expert" that the notion that Kim sees a one-on-one with POTUS as a means to elevate himself on the world stage was my very first reaction to this news. Likely millions of people see it the same way.

But that isn't the point. And I don't think Trump is being played. Trump traded Kim bombast for bombast and Trump won the bombast battle. If Rocket Man thinks he can out shine Trump, he'd better think again. Moreover, parts of Asia seem to be more willing to do something about NK than before. This is not only the result of Kim firing missiles over the heads of the Japanese and others; it is also the result of Trump's focus and bombast. The North Koreans are malnourished and some are starving. Sanctions are working. This is probably the real reason for the offer to meet. Previous administrations provided food and aid to NK because we thought that would payoff with a more peaceful NK. That didn't work. IMO, Trump won't make that mistake.
 
Another gem for the "no shit" file. So the "nuclear nonproliferation expert at the Middlebury Institute of Strategic Studies," has tweeted that "Kim is inviting Trump to demonstrate that his investment in nuclear and missile capabilities has forced the United States to treat him as an equal.” So what? I can assure said "expert" that the notion that Kim sees a one-on-one with POTUS as a means to elevate himself on the world stage was my very first reaction to this news. Likely millions of people see it the same way.

But that isn't the point. And I don't think Trump is being played. Trump traded Kim bombast for bombast and Trump won the bombast battle. If Rocket Man thinks he can out shine Trump, he'd better think again. Moreover, parts of Asia seem to be more willing to do something about NK than before. This is not only the result of Kim firing missiles over the heads of the Japanese and others; it is also the result of Trump's focus and bombast. The North Koreans are malnourished and some are starving. Sanctions are working. This is probably the real reason for the offer to meet. Previous administrations provided food and aid to NK because we thought that would payoff with a more peaceful NK. That didn't work. IMO, Trump won't make that mistake.
“In 2011, the Institute produced more Fulbright Fellows per capita than any other graduate school in the US.[2] In 2015, Foreign Policymagazine ranked the Institute #21 on its list of "Top Master's Programs for a Policy Career in International Relations."[3]

They probably know what they’re talking about. But sure, put sarcastic quotes around anyone associated with them while you post away on thehoosier.com pretending to be an “expert” on every subject known to man, whether it be climate change, physics, whatever.
 
Sanctions are working. This is probably the real reason for the offer to meet.

Absolutely no evidence to support this.

My slightly less uninformed, but still uninformed opinion is that the elections in South Korea have had the by far the largest impact on the change in posture.

Previous administrations provided food and aid to NK because we thought that would payoff with a more peaceful NK.

We provided aid because we wanted to minimize a humanitarian catastrophe. Do you think that regime gives a damn when millions starve?
 
“In 2011, the Institute produced more Fulbright Fellows per capita than any other graduate school in the US.[2] In 2015, Foreign Policymagazine ranked the Institute #21 on its list of "Top Master's Programs for a Policy Career in International Relations."[3]

They probably know what they’re talking about. But sure, put sarcastic quotes around anyone associated with them while you post away on thehoosier.com pretending to be an “expert” on every subject known to man, whether it be climate change, physics, whatever.

Middlebury is top-notch. I went to a talk of one of their NK missle experts not too long ago. Apparently, an attorney on this board knows more about NK than actual experts. We are clearly in phenomenal company.
 
“In 2011, the Institute produced more Fulbright Fellows per capita than any other graduate school in the US.[2] In 2015, Foreign Policymagazine ranked the Institute #21 on its list of "Top Master's Programs for a Policy Career in International Relations."[3]

They probably know what they’re talking about. But sure, put sarcastic quotes around anyone associated with them while you post away on thehoosier.com pretending to be an “expert” on every subject known to man, whether it be climate change, physics, whatever.
Absolutely no evidence to support this.

My slightly less uninformed, but still uninformed opinion is that the elections in South Korea have had the by far the largest impact on the change in posture.



We provided aid because we wanted to minimize a humanitarian catastrophe. Do you think that regime gives a damn when millions starve?
Middlebury is top-notch. I went to a talk of one of their NK missle experts not too long ago. Apparently, an attorney on this board knows more about NK than actual experts. We are clearly in phenomenal company.

I have no beef with Middlebury. But that doesn’t mean everything they Tweet is important or even relevant.

There are a number of reasons Kim asked for a meeting. SK elections could be among those.
 
If this works, then that would be a very good thing, but as explained by Tom Nichols, a professor of national security affairs at the Naval War College and an instructor at the Harvard Extension School, it's likely to fail:

Most likely, however, is that the White House is about to walk right into a trap the North Koreans have been laying for American presidents since the 1990s. A one-on-one summit between a U.S. president and one of the world’s weirdest and most irresponsible leaders would be a huge reward for a regime that has long chided other rogues and dictators for their weakness in dealing with the United States.

. . . This isn’t to say that direct meetings are not a good idea. Sanctions are biting deeply in North Korea, and China is clearly fed up with its bizarre ally. But a summit should be a reward for months, even years, of careful work and actual progress. Meetings at lower levels should progress to more senior principals, and then to the heads of state.

Instead, we have yet another decision, much like the recent and incoherent announcement of tariffs, that looks like sheer impulse from a commander-in-chief who seems frustrated that his advisers keep telling him that nuclear diplomacy is more complicated than running a hotel or a golf course.

Worse yet, the short fuse for a meeting in May — and why the hurry?— means that this will be a summit without an agenda and with no time to devise one, which always increases the chances of a diplomatic train wreck. There is no evidence that this move was given any kind of serious analysis by military or diplomatic advisers. The Pentagon seems to be in the dark, and Secretary of State Rex Tillerson made clear just hours before the announcement that no such meeting was even on the horizon.

Given North Korea’s track record, here is what is more likely to happen. Kim and Trump will meet, and Kim’s regime will reap hours of footage of an American president shaking the hand of the Supreme Leader that will run forever in North Korea and go viral around the world. Kim will play the gracious host, and agree to everything, knowing that this kind of flattery will trigger a torrent of praise from Trump and perhaps even elicit reckless talk about lifting sanctions. (The North Koreans will surely have done their homework on the president’s psyche, which is on display all day, every day, on social media.)

After the summit, Pyongyang will then dig in on further talks. When those talks fail, Kim will blame Trump, leaving the president bewildered and angry. Trump will go back to his insulting ways, which will pave the way for Kim to exit any preliminary agreements. The whole business will fall apart, and North Korea will look like the sure winner: the co-equal of a United States president who has been humbled in front of America’s allies and embarrassed in front of its enemies. The unveiling of a functional, nuclear-armed North Korean ICBM will follow.
Again, we'd all be better off if Trump's impulsive decision to grant Kim a summit paid off. There just isn't any reason to expect this will happen.
 
Absolutely no evidence to support this.

My slightly less uninformed, but still uninformed opinion is that the elections in South Korea have had the by far the largest impact on the change in posture.



We provided aid because we wanted to minimize a humanitarian catastrophe. Do you think that regime gives a damn when millions starve?

I doubt the sanctions are having an effect on Un’s day-to-day life. Un doesn’t give a shit about the everyday NK citizen.
 
If this works, then that would be a very good thing, but as explained by Tom Nichols, a professor of national security affairs at the Naval War College and an instructor at the Harvard Extension School, it's likely to fail:

Most likely, however, is that the White House is about to walk right into a trap the North Koreans have been laying for American presidents since the 1990s. A one-on-one summit between a U.S. president and one of the world’s weirdest and most irresponsible leaders would be a huge reward for a regime that has long chided other rogues and dictators for their weakness in dealing with the United States.

. . . This isn’t to say that direct meetings are not a good idea. Sanctions are biting deeply in North Korea, and China is clearly fed up with its bizarre ally. But a summit should be a reward for months, even years, of careful work and actual progress. Meetings at lower levels should progress to more senior principals, and then to the heads of state.

Instead, we have yet another decision, much like the recent and incoherent announcement of tariffs, that looks like sheer impulse from a commander-in-chief who seems frustrated that his advisers keep telling him that nuclear diplomacy is more complicated than running a hotel or a golf course.

Worse yet, the short fuse for a meeting in May — and why the hurry?— means that this will be a summit without an agenda and with no time to devise one, which always increases the chances of a diplomatic train wreck. There is no evidence that this move was given any kind of serious analysis by military or diplomatic advisers. The Pentagon seems to be in the dark, and Secretary of State Rex Tillerson made clear just hours before the announcement that no such meeting was even on the horizon.

Given North Korea’s track record, here is what is more likely to happen. Kim and Trump will meet, and Kim’s regime will reap hours of footage of an American president shaking the hand of the Supreme Leader that will run forever in North Korea and go viral around the world. Kim will play the gracious host, and agree to everything, knowing that this kind of flattery will trigger a torrent of praise from Trump and perhaps even elicit reckless talk about lifting sanctions. (The North Koreans will surely have done their homework on the president’s psyche, which is on display all day, every day, on social media.)

After the summit, Pyongyang will then dig in on further talks. When those talks fail, Kim will blame Trump, leaving the president bewildered and angry. Trump will go back to his insulting ways, which will pave the way for Kim to exit any preliminary agreements. The whole business will fall apart, and North Korea will look like the sure winner: the co-equal of a United States president who has been humbled in front of America’s allies and embarrassed in front of its enemies. The unveiling of a functional, nuclear-armed North Korean ICBM will follow.
Again, we'd all be better off if Trump's impulsive decision to grant Kim a summit paid off. There just isn't any reason to expect this will happen.

I don't understand the trap. What's Uncle Sam's downside? Is it we can be swindled out of food and aid? Been there done that. Obviously these talks increase Kim's stature. So what? His stature depends more on the media than anything that will happen at the meetings anyway. One thing we already know, Trump, who imposed additional sanctions only several weeks ago, has said no sanctions relief until agreement is finished. That is a positive change from the mistake of previous administration which relaxed Iranian sanctions before final agreement and which cost us leverage.

I also don't understand the criticism of the pace of the negotiations and summit. The US, and Trump have known the deal breakers for years. If Kim can't overcome those, sanctions continue. I don't think that will happen. China, and maybe also SK are likely very concerned with the NK refugee issues which they want to head off. I think all details come after the summit, not before.
 
I don't understand the trap. What's Uncle Sam's downside? Is it we can be swindled out of food and aid? Been there done that. Obviously these talks increase Kim's stature. So what? His stature depends more on the media than anything that will happen at the meetings anyway. One thing we already know, Trump, who imposed additional sanctions only several weeks ago, has said no sanctions relief until agreement is finished. That is a positive change from the mistake of previous administration which relaxed Iranian sanctions before final agreement and which cost us leverage.

I also don't understand the criticism of the pace of the negotiations and summit. The US, and Trump have known the deal breakers for years. If Kim can't overcome those, sanctions continue. I don't think that will happen. China, and maybe also SK are likely very concerned with the NK refugee issues which they want to head off. I think all details come after the summit, not before.

I don't see how it increases his stature with anyone not living in North Korea and they've already been brainwashed to believe he's infallible.

Those outside North Korea can see it for what it is: the fat weasel is terrified he's about the get the Saddam Hussain treatment and doesn't want to find out what the picture looks like from the other side of the camera feed on a "smart" bomb...
 
I don't see how it increases his stature with anyone not living in North Korea and they've already been brainwashed to believe he's infallible.

Those outside North Korea can see it for what it is: the fat weasel is terrified he's about the get the Saddam Hussain treatment and doesn't want to find out what the picture looks like from the other side of the camera feed on a "smart" bomb...
The summit is extremely valuable to Kim. It's foolish to give it to him in exchange for nothing. It's also foolish to make such a decision impulsively, without consulting subject matter experts and without having in place a capable team of people who will be prepared to negotiate for us. Trump thinks this is all about him and his magical ability to bend Kim to his view by force of his personality. That's also foolish.

International diplomacy is hard work, and that's never more true than when dealing with North Korea. It isn't the sort of thing you lurch into unprepared on a whim, as Trump has here. The summit should come at the end, and not at the beginning.
 
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I don't see how it increases his stature with anyone not living in North Korea and they've already been brainwashed to believe he's infallible.

Those outside North Korea can see it for what it is: the fat weasel is terrified he's about the get the Saddam Hussain treatment and doesn't want to find out what the picture looks like from the other side of the camera feed on a "smart" bomb...



So now every dictator around the world just should behave belligerently, threatening war endlessly, until they get personal attention from a US President?

Prediction: this meeting never occurs once the adults walk Trump back off the ledge.
 
So now every dictator around the world just should behave belligerently, threatening war endlessly, until they get personal attention from a US President?

Prediction: this meeting never occurs once the adults walk. Trump back off the ledge.
A summit that failed would make things worse. Talks are a good idea, but we need to have our shit together.
 
The summit is extremely valuable to Kim. It's foolish to give it to him in exchange for nothing. It's also foolish to make such a decision impulsively, without consulting subject matter experts and without having in place a capable team of people who will be prepared to negotiate for us. Trump thinks this is all about him and his magical ability to bend Kim to his view by force of his personality. That's also foolish.

International diplomacy is hard work, and that's never more true than when dealing with North Korea. It isn't the sort of thing you lurch into unprepared on a whim, as Trump has here. The summit should come at the end, and not at the beginning.

Well to be fair, you are making a leap saying Trump has entered into this on a whim and is unprepared. You have no idea what kind of discussions have been going on internally since all this has started.....

Do we not remember the all wise and omnipotent President Barrack Hussien Obama when this was said in a debate, “The sparring began Monday at the CNN/YouTube debate, in which a viewer asked candidates if they would be willing to meet with leaders of Iran, Syria, Cuba, Venezuela and North Korea -- whom the United States has called rogue leaders.
Obama said he would, adding "it is a disgrace that we have not spoken to them." He added: "The notion that somehow not talking to countries is punishment to them -- which has been the guiding diplomatic principle of this administration -- is ridiculous."
Obama cited the diplomacy of late presidents John F. Kennedy and Ronald Reagan, who engaged the Soviet Union even as he called it the "evil empire."


A little consistency please......
 
Well to be fair, you are making a leap saying Trump has entered into this on a whim and is unprepared. You have no idea what kind of discussions have been going on internally since all this has started.....

Do we not remember the all wise and omnipotent President Barrack Hussien Obama when this was said in a debate, “The sparring began Monday at the CNN/YouTube debate, in which a viewer asked candidates if they would be willing to meet with leaders of Iran, Syria, Cuba, Venezuela and North Korea -- whom the United States has called rogue leaders.
Obama said he would, adding "it is a disgrace that we have not spoken to them." He added: "The notion that somehow not talking to countries is punishment to them -- which has been the guiding diplomatic principle of this administration -- is ridiculous."
Obama cited the diplomacy of late presidents John F. Kennedy and Ronald Reagan, who engaged the Soviet Union even as he called it the "evil empire."


A little consistency please......
.

So are you unable to read news yourself?

Nothing is ever planned with Trump.

https://nypost.com/2018/03/09/tillerson-says-it-was-all-trumps-idea-to-meet-with-kim-jong-un/
 
Well to be fair, you are making a leap saying Trump has entered into this on a whim and is unprepared. You have no idea what kind of discussions have been going on internally since all this has started.....
According to numerous published reports, this is exactly what happened.
 
Well to be fair, you are making a leap saying Trump has entered into this on a whim and is unprepared. You have no idea what kind of discussions have been going on internally since all this has started.....

Do we not remember the all wise and omnipotent President Barrack Hussien Obama when this was said in a debate, “The sparring began Monday at the CNN/YouTube debate, in which a viewer asked candidates if they would be willing to meet with leaders of Iran, Syria, Cuba, Venezuela and North Korea -- whom the United States has called rogue leaders.
Obama said he would, adding "it is a disgrace that we have not spoken to them." He added: "The notion that somehow not talking to countries is punishment to them -- which has been the guiding diplomatic principle of this administration -- is ridiculous."
Obama cited the diplomacy of late presidents John F. Kennedy and Ronald Reagan, who engaged the Soviet Union even as he called it the "evil empire."


A little consistency please......
According to numerous published reports, this is exactly what happened.

Well planned???

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligence...th-korea-meeting-trump-was-just-babbling.html
 
A summit that failed would make things worse. Talks are a good idea, but we need to have our shit together.

This is typical Trump bullshit....spouting off at the mouth, with zero grasp of the policy implications.

White House already walking this back..,saying NK now must meet conditions first regarding denuclearization. Yeah, that'll happen.
 
I don't understand the trap. What's Uncle Sam's downside? Is it we can be swindled out of food and aid? Been there done that. Obviously these talks increase Kim's stature. So what? His stature depends more on the media than anything that will happen at the meetings anyway. One thing we already know, Trump, who imposed additional sanctions only several weeks ago, has said no sanctions relief until agreement is finished. That is a positive change from the mistake of previous administration which relaxed Iranian sanctions before final agreement and which cost us leverage.

I also don't understand the criticism of the pace of the negotiations and summit. The US, and Trump have known the deal breakers for years. If Kim can't overcome those, sanctions continue. I don't think that will happen. China, and maybe also SK are likely very concerned with the NK refugee issues which they want to head off. I think all details come after the summit, not before.

Here is a possible trap, Kim comes off looking more reasonable than Trump causing other nations to drop the sanctions. Not saying it will happen, just possible.

Normally the Pres isn't brought in unless everyone knows what is on the table. That may be why things are being walked back some today.
 
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This is typical Trump bullshit....spouting off at the mouth, with zero grasp of the policy implications.

White House already walking this back..,saying NK now must meet conditions first regarding denuclearization. Yeah, that'll happen.
Yep. No one should forget that (1) Trump has no idea what he's doing; and (2) Trump and Tillerson have decimated our diplomatic corps. From what I've read, it sounds like we no longer have any Korea experts in the government.
 
The summit is extremely valuable to Kim. It's foolish to give it to him in exchange for nothing. It's also foolish to make such a decision impulsively, without consulting subject matter experts and without having in place a capable team of people who will be prepared to negotiate for us. Trump thinks this is all about him and his magical ability to bend Kim to his view by force of his personality. That's also foolish.

International diplomacy is hard work, and that's never more true than when dealing with North Korea. It isn't the sort of thing you lurch into unprepared on a whim, as Trump has here. The summit should come at the end, and not at the beginning.

We've already been through Clinton's "Agreed Framework," and Bush's "Six Party Talks" with the Norks. I suspect that these efforts were well thought out, well staffed, and were the result of hard work. They produced zilch. I don't know what you mean by "hard work" of diplomacy anyway. I think diplomacy, like any negotiation, it takes clear cut objectives, clearly stated deal breakers, and leverage. Leverage means you have something the other side wants or needs. The Norks leverage is a willingness to curtail missiles and bombs. Our leverage is relief from sanctions that are taking a serious civilian toll. Sanctions are weakening Kim. How we play leverage is not necessarily hard work. I don't see Trump giving up leverage for no return. Now with China more or less on board, we have an opportunity that hasn't previously existed. Maybe luck is more important than hard work.
 
We've already been through Clinton's "Agreed Framework," and Bush's "Six Party Talks" with the Norks. I suspect that these efforts were well thought out, well staffed, and were the result of hard work. They produced zilch. I don't know what you mean by "hard work" of diplomacy anyway. I think diplomacy, like any negotiation, it takes clear cut objectives, clearly stated deal breakers, and leverage. Leverage means you have something the other side wants or needs. The Norks leverage is a willingness to curtail missiles and bombs. Our leverage is relief from sanctions that are taking a serious civilian toll. Sanctions are weakening Kim. How we play leverage is not necessarily hard work. I don't see Trump giving up leverage for no return. Now with China more or less on board, we have an opportunity that hasn't previously existed. Maybe luck is more important than hard work.
You're right. we should just wing it. YOLO
 
.

So are you unable to read news yourself?

Nothing is ever planned with Trump.

https://nypost.com/2018/03/09/tillerson-says-it-was-all-trumps-idea-to-meet-with-kim-jong-un/

I read just fine..... do you? I think it is ridiculous to think that everything is off the cuff but I understand from where you guys are coming from. There is nothing that he can do that would be acceptable. I remember the left or opposition to Reagan had a hey day about his flippant comments about the button etc.... remember the Phil Collins video? The mocking is common place but in the end.... Reagan was right and no I’m not saying Trump is Reagan by any means. But he brought a different approach to the Russia issue and it worked.

Now everyone glanced over the Obama quote..... why don’t we just say what this is? If it was Obama meeting with Un people would be more comfortable with little to say negatively. Many circles would be getting thrills up their legs. I can accept it.
 
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You're right. we should just wing it. YOLO

LOL. North Korean nukes have been an diplomatic issue for at least 25 years with on going unilateral and bilateral sanctions and other efforts. I don't think anybody is winging it at this point.
 
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Yep. No one should forget that (1) Trump has no idea what he's doing; and (2) Trump and Tillerson have decimated our diplomatic corps. From what I've read, it sounds like we no longer have any Korea experts in the government.

Tillerson was stating there will be no talks in the foreseeable future a day prior to Trump's announcement. There is no coordination whatsoever. We have 2 or 3 North Korea experts in the entire US state department at the moment.
 
I read just fine..... do you? I think it is ridiculous to think that everything is off the cuff but I understand from where you guys are coming from. There is nothing that he can do that would be acceptable. I remember the left or opposition to Reagan had a hey day about his flippant comments about the button etc.... remember the Phil Collins video? The mocking is common place but in the end.... Reagan was right and no I’m not saying Trump is Reagan by any means. But he brought a different approach to the Russia issue and it worked.

Now everyone glanced over the Obama quote..... why don’t we just say what this is? If it was Obama meeting with Un people would be more comfortable with little to say negatively. Many circles would be getting thrills up their legs. I can accept it.


1) His SoS said this was Trump going off on his own. You were the one claiming that this was some deeply debated policy position, not me.

2) Obama said that as a candidate....not in office. Politicians say a lot of half baked things on campaign trails. Presidents typically don't make foreign policy on the fly. Until now.
 
Tillerson was stating there will be no talks in the foreseeable future a day prior to Trump's announcement. There is no coordination whatsoever. We have 2 or 3 North Korea experts in the entire US state department at the moment.
I believe it said no negotiations....I’m going from memory. Talks have always been on the table and put there firmly by President O.
 
We've already been through Clinton's "Agreed Framework," and Bush's "Six Party Talks" with the Norks. I suspect that these efforts were well thought out, well staffed, and were the result of hard work. They produced zilch. I don't know what you mean by "hard work" of diplomacy anyway. I think diplomacy, like any negotiation, it takes clear cut objectives, clearly stated deal breakers, and leverage. Leverage means you have something the other side wants or needs. The Norks leverage is a willingness to curtail missiles and bombs. Our leverage is relief from sanctions that are taking a serious civilian toll. Sanctions are weakening Kim. How we play leverage is not necessarily hard work. I don't see Trump giving up leverage for no return. Now with China more or less on board, we have an opportunity that hasn't previously existed. Maybe luck is more important than hard work.

Since well thought out, well staffed efforts that were the result of hard work ultimately didn't succeed, we should stop thinking things out or engaging our diplomatic experts in hard work to attempt to get positive results. Instead, we should just wing it and throw two unpredictable, unstable megalomaniacs together and hope for the best. Our new foreign policy is "interesting".
 
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Friendly advice: most reasonable people don't care what you have to say, and the fact that you post like this is why. Learn to talk about your political opponents as an adult, and you'll get a better response.

If you haven’t noticed the “reasonable” people’s posts have some pretty disparaging adjectives for Trump . But those seem “reasonable” to you. See, I understand where I am posting....and It isn’t an echo chamber.

The great thing is I’m still smiling and laughing on here and will be until your head explodes one day. I guess if I valued your acceptance I’d work to hide my thoughts better. You know, like President O did with his Farrakhan picture....see that is hiding who you are. I’m not going to do that. I don’t see where I’m being unreasonable but I’m sorry if you feel that I am.
 
Since well thought out, well staffed efforts that were the result of hard work ultimately didn't succeed, we should stop thinking things out or engaging our diplomatic experts in hard work to attempt to get positive results. Instead, we should just wing it and throw two unpredictable, unstable megalomaniacs together and hope for the best. Our new foreign policy is "interesting".

Well .....we have one now I guess...:)
 
I believe it said no negotiations....I’m going from memory. Talks have always been on the table and put there firmly by President O.

President Obama was working from that old-fashioned "swamp" view where we would engage our enemies diplomatically with mid-level experts in the foreign country's culture to discuss the nuances of each side's priorities and negotiate based on years of experience in dealing with that culture before bringing in Cabinet Secretary level personnel let alone the President.

President Trump is working from the "knowledge is overrated, I'll just wing it" view.
 
If you haven’t noticed the “reasonable” people’s posts have some pretty disparaging adjectives for Trump . But those seem “reasonable” to you. See, I understand where I am posting....and It isn’t an echo chamber.

The great thing is I’m still smiling and laughing on here and will be until your head explodes one day. I guess if I valued your acceptance I’d work to hide my thoughts better. You know, like President O did with his Farrakhan picture....see that is hiding who you are. I’m not going to do that. I don’t see where I’m being unreasonable but I’m sorry if you feel that I am.

Why are you sorry if you don't value his acceptance? You should stop hiding your thoughts and just be honest. ;)
 
President Obama was working from that old-fashioned "swamp" view where we would engage our enemies diplomatically with mid-level experts in the foreign country's culture to discuss the nuances of each side's priorities and negotiate based on years of experience in dealing with that culture before bringing in Cabinet Secretary level personnel let alone the President.

President Trump is working from the "knowledge is overrated, I'll just wing it" view.
I must of missed that in his statement... maybe his statement was “off the cuff”.... you know...like Trump
 
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