Of course you are right about the pipeline going dry. I'm not talking about that. That's long term. I'm talking about the decline in TV ratings and fewer sold-out stadiums. That is now.
"Fire that Son of a B!tch"
- Thread starter TheVegasHoosier
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Of course you are right about the pipeline going dry. I'm not talking about that. That's long term. I'm talking about the decline in TV ratings and fewer sold-out stadiums. That is now.
A
anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Guest
The good teams have zero problems filling stadiums. For being the league that most aggressively seeks parity, they're doing it wrong. There are too many teams and not enough quality talent. They've also changed the rules to favor the offense so much that there are now only a handful of teams that are championship contenders and they're the ones with great QBs.
They have a talent problem and are too overextended. The league is an oligarchy of teams and that sucks for anyone rooting for an average to worse team.
The guys who refuse to go on sundays because of these protests are the ones who couldn't afford to go anyways.
This is really simple. Kneeling for the Anthem is not hating the Flag or the Anthem. Period. That's all owners have to 1) understand and 2) say. The truth is the truth. Lies are what makes this an issue.
The Steelers will stay in the locker room. That has been the answer. I hate crediting the Steelers for anything bit being worthless bums, but credit here.
Just as expected, Trump's remarks have caused many, many more players to be kneeling and much more attention to the subject. I swear, he is just like one of the middle school mean girls: loves to stir it up and sit back to enjoy the fallout. Sad.
Yeah, that is better. Just stay in the locker room if you don't see fit to stand.
In fact, if I was Roger Goodell, I'd make that league policy. This whole spectacle has been a debacle for the NFL. I'm amazed they've let it go on to this point. Whatever else it is, it's incredibly dumb management.
Every anthem was broadcast on TV. That normally would happen. It was only because of Trump's comments.
Kneeling for the National Anthem is not like sitting at the front of the bus or ordering from the Woolworth's lunch counter. Kaepernick is no modern Rosa Parks. Those protests directly confronted acts of discrimination. Kaepernick is simply and opportunist who wants to make a spectacle of himself. When Martin Luther King led the march in Selma, he and others marched under the American Flag--several of them. Back then, things like the flag and the Star Spangled Banner were seen as symbols of our common bond and common ideals. The flag and the anthem haven't changed. What has changed? Now Kaepernick and others see the flag and the anthem as an object of protest and division. I kinda like the image of athletes standing for the anthem as they prepare for a contest. We've gotten to the point if one tribe does something, the other tribe must not only do something different; it must also deride the other tribe. This goes for Trump and his defenders as well as Kaepernick and his defenders. If we can't even manage to see the flag and the Star Spangled Banner as symbols of unity, liberty, and the common good, we won't see anything that way.
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I'm not surprised. Whenever you wonder why you seem to be losing more than winning lately, just refer back to this thread and post. Because your not seeing this has a lot to do with why.
Hell, even David Frum -- one of the most vociferous Never-Trumpers out there -- sees what's going on here. It's a "fish in a barrel" issue for a populist politician like DJT.
The NFL, for its part, is going to continue to see problems with ratings and attendance....and, eventually, with advertisers (if they haven't already). Things just went from bad to worse for them...not because of what Trump said, but because of how they've handled this.
Meanwhile, just like most populists do (have I said lately just how much I loathe populism?), Trump divides and takes the side of the flag...which, shameless as it clearly is, is a no-lose proposition for him.
To quote Walter Sobchak: You guys are a bunch of &@%#ing amateurs. And I'll tell you my theory why: this is your first time being in opposition to a populist. You don't know how to handle it.
Kneeling for the National Anthem is not like sitting at the front of the bus or ordering from the Woolworth's lunch counter. Kaepernick is no modern Rosa Parks. Those protests directly confronted acts of discrimination. When Martin Luther King led the march in Selma, he and others marched under the American Flag--several of them. Back then, things like the flag and the Star Spangled Banner were seen as symbols of our common bond and common ideals. The flag and the anthem haven't changed. What has changed? Now Kaepernick and others see the flag and the anthem as an object of protest and division. I kinda like the image of athletes standing for the anthem as they prepare for a contest. We've gotten to the point if one tribe does something, the other tribe must not only do something different; it must also deride the other tribe. This goes for Trump and his defenders as well as Kaepernick and his defenders. If we can't even manage to see the flag and the Star Spangled Banner as symbols of unity, liberty, and the common good, we won't see anything that way.
I think I referenced earlier the black power salute in 1968 Mexico City, this really is not "new" as the 1960's had an extremely similar debate.
I saw your post. That's a good point and a good story. I don't think the issues are the same--at least not for me.
Who else voted for him?That’s not hard when only three people here voted for him
@Marvin the Martian
Great story from the SF Chron about Maxwell:
Especially impressive that Maxwell took the time to explain his decision to his team beforehand. One of his teammates responded to his decision as such:
Mark Canha, who is from San Jose and went to Cal, placed his hand on Maxwell’s shoulder. After the anthem, the teammates hugged.
“Every fiber in my being was telling me he needed a brother today,” Canha said. “I thought about kneeling myself when (Colin) Kaepernick was doing it but decided not to, but when Bruce said he was going to do it, I thought, ‘Someone has to be out there, and I have to be one of those people.’”
Great story from the SF Chron about Maxwell:
“My decision had been coming for a long time,” Maxwell said, citing his own experiences with racism while growing up in Huntsville, Ala., which is where Trump on Friday made disparaging comments about NFL players who choose to kneel for the anthem. “The only way we can come together is by informing. ... To single out NFL players for doing this isn’t something we should be doing — I felt it should be a little more broad.”
...
“The point of my kneeling was not to disrespect our military or our constitution or our country,” Maxwell said. “My hand was over my heart because I love this country and I have family members, including my father, who bled for this country, and who continue to serve. At the end of the day, this is the best country on the planet. I am and forever will be an American citizen and grateful to be here, but my kneeling is what’s getting the attention, and I’m kneeling for the people who don’t have a voice."
...
“The point of my kneeling was not to disrespect our military or our constitution or our country,” Maxwell said. “My hand was over my heart because I love this country and I have family members, including my father, who bled for this country, and who continue to serve. At the end of the day, this is the best country on the planet. I am and forever will be an American citizen and grateful to be here, but my kneeling is what’s getting the attention, and I’m kneeling for the people who don’t have a voice."
Especially impressive that Maxwell took the time to explain his decision to his team beforehand. One of his teammates responded to his decision as such:
Mark Canha, who is from San Jose and went to Cal, placed his hand on Maxwell’s shoulder. After the anthem, the teammates hugged.
“Every fiber in my being was telling me he needed a brother today,” Canha said. “I thought about kneeling myself when (Colin) Kaepernick was doing it but decided not to, but when Bruce said he was going to do it, I thought, ‘Someone has to be out there, and I have to be one of those people.’”
A
anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Guest
Jesus man for crying out loud. It has not been a debacle for the NFL. Diversify your news stream. It's essentially a non-factor.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-mostly-false-claim-nfl-ratings-are-way-down/
Kneeling for the National Anthem is not like sitting at the front of the bus or ordering from the Woolworth's lunch counter. Kaepernick is no modern Rosa Parks. Those protests directly confronted acts of discrimination. Kaepernick is simply and opportunist who wants to make a spectacle of himself. When Martin Luther King led the march in Selma, he and others marched under the American Flag--several of them. Back then, things like the flag and the Star Spangled Banner were seen as symbols of our common bond and common ideals. The flag and the anthem haven't changed. What has changed? Now Kaepernick and others see the flag and the anthem as an object of protest and division. I kinda like the image of athletes standing for the anthem as they prepare for a contest. We've gotten to the point if one tribe does something, the other tribe must not only do something different; it must also deride the other tribe. This goes for Trump and his defenders as well as Kaepernick and his defenders. If we can't even manage to see the flag and the Star Spangled Banner as symbols of unity, liberty, and the common good, we won't see anything that way.
Edited and made better.
Is that the rally where Trump’s dad was arrested? No, wait, that was a totally different rally.
LOL. Did you read that piece? Viewership is down this year and last year.
And the author only discounts this year by saying it's inconclusive this early in the year -- oh, and the hurricane (did Katrina cause NFL ratings to go down in 2005?). Uh-huh.
Trust me, this thing has been a PR nightmare for the NFL. And they know it -- which is precisely why they are protesting so much.
The NFL's inept handling of this matter should become a model for how not to handle something like this. People tune in to sports to escape all this stuff, not to have more of it thrown in their face.
If I was Roger Goodell, I'd make it league policy that teams stay in the locker room until after the anthem has been played. It takes it out of individual players' hands. If players are kneeling, they're not doing it in front of the cameras.
And I assure you the NFL wants football-related storylines, not political ones.
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anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Guest
Yes I read the piece. Obviously you didn't make it all the way through and instead pulled out what you wanted to. Viewership is down in all sports including NASCAR. I'm shocked that you haven't tried to explain that. Is NASCAR viewership down because of Hilary's emails?
Trust you? Why the Eff would I trust a guy that lives in Evansville, is completely one-dimensional in his view of the world, to help me understand the tone of the NFL?
I love how you're suddenly a crisis management expert now, too. Is there anything in this world you aren't the very best at?
I didn't say that.
But it doesn't take an expert to see when somebody screws it up -- as the NFL has here.
Actually, it does take an expert. There's an entire field dedicated to it. And you're not very good at it.
Saying TV ratings are down elsewhere doesn't change the fact that the NFL's ratings are down. Duh.
The piece you posted only verified what I said. And it's not hard to find verification elsewhere.
Here's the Hollywood Reporter on the NFL's troubles. They're citing it as reason for declining media stocks.
If you don't think they're sweating this in the boardrooms, you're naive.
Yes there is a field dedicated to it.
The NFL would be wise to fire whoever they've had handling this and hire somebody else. There are all kinds of ways to defuse this that don't require them to push any nuclear buttons.
The Steelers did one of them today. That was a smart move -- and Goodell would do well to follow their lead.
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anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Guest
Oh for Christ's sake. You are so intellectually dishonest in this discussion it's not worth continuing. You know damn well you believe that the NFL ratings are down (oh by the way attendance is up) because of Kaepernick and those adopting his form of protest. Once the actual data shows you can't prove that you then back off to the position of "I just said they're down."
I said good day.
Since you mentioned it, here's one crisis management pro's advice to the NFL (from last year, but same subject).
But I did just say they're down. And they are.
That NASCAR's are down too doesn't have the first thing to do with that.
The WSJ editorial board gets this entirely right.
Mr. Trump has managed to unite the players and owners against him, though several owners supported him for President and donated to his inaugural. The owners were almost obliged to defend their sport, even if their complaints that Mr. Trump was “divisive” ignored the divisive acts by Mr. Kaepernick and his media allies that injected politics into football in the first place.
Americans don’t begrudge athletes their free-speech rights—see the popularity of Charles Barkley —but disrespecting the national anthem puts partisanship above a symbol of nationhood that thousands have died for. Players who chose to kneel shouldn’t be surprised that fans around the country booed them on Sunday. This is the patriotic sentiment that they are helping Mr. Trump exploit for what he no doubt thinks is his own political advantage.
Americans don’t begrudge athletes their free-speech rights—see the popularity of Charles Barkley —but disrespecting the national anthem puts partisanship above a symbol of nationhood that thousands have died for. Players who chose to kneel shouldn’t be surprised that fans around the country booed them on Sunday. This is the patriotic sentiment that they are helping Mr. Trump exploit for what he no doubt thinks is his own political advantage.
If that's all you're saying, what's the point? Why even have this discussion? It's only meaningful if you tie those lower numbers to...something. Which you obviously intended to do, and now you're, what, backing off that? So then none of your posts have any meaning whatsoever?
We don't know all the causes. The NFL has been the ratings giant for a long time, but I don't think anyone expects that to be permanent. If so, I will turn over to the #1 rated Gunsmoke later.
I am sure this isn't helping, but has anyone found a way to quantify it?
You and the WSJ are doing the same thing CO.H already did on this board - transferring your own opinions on the matter to the "average American" and drawing what you consider to be common sense conclusions based on that. If you really want to have insight, you need to stop pretending that your opinion on everything is somehow normal or typical, and stop using yourself as a proxy for the generic American.
It's only partisanship for those who have no idea what they're talking about. That is, unless one party thinks cops killing black men isn't a problem. Or only one party thinks it is.
On second thought, they may have a point after all.
Jerry is the biggest fraud in sports as he'd take a kiddie rapist if it helped him win.
Glad to see so many teams stand up to Trump today.
Ummmmmmmmmm, you do know that all of Trump's policies have failed, right?
No repeal of ObamaCare.
No wall.
Tax reform looks harder than ObamaCare.
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