American Workforce Act

[Spartans9312]

U.S. Congressman Max Miller Introduces Legislation to Overhaul Workforce Education - Max Miller

WASHINGTON, D.C. – Today, U.S. Congressman Max Miller (OH-07) introduced the American Workforce Act, a bill to overhaul workforce education. The legislation provides high school graduates with a $9,000 workforce training voucher to participate in education programs designed by employers and...

maxmiller.house.gov

 

[NewGuyToTheBoard]

U.S. Congressman Max Miller Introduces Legislation to Overhaul Workforce Education - Max Miller

WASHINGTON, D.C. – Today, U.S. Congressman Max Miller (OH-07) introduced the American Workforce Act, a bill to overhaul workforce education. The legislation provides high school graduates with a $9,000 workforce training voucher to participate in education programs designed by employers and...

maxmiller.house.gov

Well intentioned. But it should be in the form of low interest loans and not vouchers, unless the voucher funds are being diverted from somewhere else.

 

[NewGuyToTheBoard]

Well intentioned. But it should be in the form of low interest loans and not vouchers, unless the voucher funds are being diverted from somewhere else.

Preferably we close down the Department of Education and divert those funds to a program like this.

 

[Univee2]

Preferably we close down the Department of Education and divert those funds to a program like this.

You had us at “close down the Department of Education.”

 

[larsIU]

But it should be in the form of low interest loans and not vouchers

Should really just be more highschool programs exposing 16y/o's to vocational work. IF high schools are basically offering electives and study halls as class options, why not vocational training?

 

[hoosboot]

Should really just be more highschool programs exposing 16y/o's to vocational work. IF high schools are basically offering electives and study halls as class options, why not vocational training?

I think a lot do, but it certainly could be expanded if the interest was there.

I'd potentially favor the idea of expanding training tax credits for companies for new hires at certain hiring levels if they could dial in the criteria on it.

Regardless, matching employer needs with skill development is an area where we could do much better.

 

[Spartans9312]

Federal support and estimated federal tax expenditures for education, by category: Selected fiscal years, 1965 through 2020

The primary purpose of the Digest of Education Statistics is to provide a compilation of statistical information covering the broad field of American education from prekindergarten through graduate school. The Digest includes a selection of data from many sources, both government and private...

nces.ed.gov

U.S. Department of Education Budget History

Detailed tables showing the budget history of the U.S. Department of Education from FY 1980 to the FY 2018 President's Budget, by major program, and showing State allocations by State and by program from FY 1980-2017.

www2.ed.gov

Federal and state spending on higher education exceeds $200 billion per year.

The share of federal dollars allocated to career and technical education has fallen from 11% to 3%.

The share of high school students earning CTE credits has declined. The average number of CTE credits per student has declined.

 

[UncleMark]

I'd potentially favor the idea of expanding training tax credits for companies for new hires at certain hiring levels if they could dial in the criteria on it.

Only if those employers were required to keep the employee on for some extended period and at a decent wage.

 

[Spartans9312]

Only 1/3 of Americans earn a bachelor degree by age 25.

Only half earn at least a degree from juco.

Roughy 40% of college graduates hold a job that doesn’t require a degree.

Less than 20% move smoothly from high school to college to career.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Only if those employers were required to keep the employee on for some extended period and at a decent wage.

What happens if the laborer leaves for another job?

 

[UncleMark]

What happens if the laborer leaves for another job?

Nothing. The employer got his subsidy. Now it's his job to keep the employee.

 

[UncleMark]

Roughy 40% of college graduates hold a job that doesn’t require a degree.

Yet the employers will require one anyway.

 

[NewGuyToTheBoard]

Nothing. The employer got his subsidy. Now it's his job to keep the employee.

So are colleges not allowed to flunk students attending school on Federal grants?

 

[UncleMark]

So are colleges not allowed to flunk students attending school on Federal grants?

What a lame attempt. 4/10

 

[NewGuyToTheBoard]

What a lame attempt. 4/10

The idea that any subsidization of job training or education necessarily locks the school or employer into a student or trainee/ employee is ridiculously dumb.

Your original point: 0.5/ 10

 

[mrhighlife]

This is great stuff. And a great conversation on it from both sides. Seems like both sides like this idea in some shape or form. Get it done congress, Jesus Christ.

 

[hookyIU1990]

I think a lot do, but it certainly could be expanded if the interest was there.

I'd potentially favor the idea of expanding training tax credits for companies for new hires at certain hiring levels if they could dial in the criteria on it.

Regardless, matching employer needs with skill development is an area where we could do much better.

The rural HS I went to 40 years ago used to offer Ag, Metal Shop, Wood Shop, Building Trades and Auto/small engine. They only have Ag classes now that incorporate a little of the Metal and small engine curriculum. That's it, despite the enrollment being about 10% higher than it was back then. If a kid wants to pursue any of the others, then he has to enroll at a centralized program that is located in the county seat and split time between the HS and vocational program. It's a logistical nightmare, especially for anyone who participates in any extra curricular activities (which are also dwindling).

Anecdotally, I hear that it's a similar situation at the other county schools.

 

[Spartans9312]

Americans’ top priority for higher education is employment opportunity.

The institutions see it differently. “The business of colleges and universities is the creation and diffusion of knowledge.”
(Harvard University)

“Most Americans have an accurate view of the purpose of higher education”….only 1% of university presidents strongly agreed with that statement. Four times as many disagreed as agreed.

 

[DANC]

Yet the employers will require one anyway.

Because they want to be selective. That's changing.

 

[DANC]

The rural HS I went to 40 years ago used to offer Ag, Metal Shop, Wood Shop, Building Trades and Auto/small engine. They only have Ag classes now that incorporate a little of the Metal and small engine curriculum. That's it, despite the enrollment being about 10% higher than it was back then. If a kid wants to pursue any of the others, then he has to enroll at a centralized program that is located in the county seat and split time between the HS and vocational program. It's a logistical nightmare, especially for anyone who participates in any extra curricular activities (which are also dwindling).

Anecdotally, I hear that it's a similar situation at the other county schools.

It is. I imagine finding qualified teachers is a challenge for small schools.

Used to be, at my old HS (you know the one), the 'shop' classes would actually build a house and sell it. I always thought that was a hell of an idea. Guys used to bring their own cars into shop classes and work on them.

 

[Spartans9312]

Yet the employers will require one anyway.

Review of "Second Class" by Batya Ungar-Sargon

The book's portrait of the working class contains useful policy prescriptions.

www.city-journal.org

 

[IUCrazy2]

Federal support and estimated federal tax expenditures for education, by category: Selected fiscal years, 1965 through 2020

The primary purpose of the Digest of Education Statistics is to provide a compilation of statistical information covering the broad field of American education from prekindergarten through graduate school. The Digest includes a selection of data from many sources, both government and private...

nces.ed.gov

U.S. Department of Education Budget History

Detailed tables showing the budget history of the U.S. Department of Education from FY 1980 to the FY 2018 President's Budget, by major program, and showing State allocations by State and by program from FY 1980-2017.

www2.ed.gov

Federal and state spending on higher education exceeds $200 billion per year.

The share of federal dollars allocated to career and technical education has fallen from 11% to 3%.

The share of high school students earning CTE credits has declined. The average number of CTE credits per student has declined.

So we pay them to learn the jobs and then undercut the value of the jobs with a couple million illegals every year.....smart investing.

 

[Palmbeachhoosier]

Should really just be more highschool programs exposing 16y/o's to vocational work. IF high schools are basically offering electives and study halls as class options, why not vocational training?

Because you haven't heard every kid is going to college.

 

[UncleMark]

Because you haven't heard every kid is going to college.

Every kid is told he should go to college. That's the problem.

 

[Cortez88]

Every kid is told he should go to college. That's the problem.

Is it really? Sure it’s not for everyone. I agree there. However, the data is clear that a college degree means greater future earnings. Having a more educated populace is a net positive on success. Indiana is down to 52% of graduating high school seniors attending college. That is bad for the state. That’s inarguable.

The root problem with college lies solely in the cost. We are at a place where a kid really has to take a long hard look at whether being, say, a teacher is worth it. A teacher. A professional job that requires further education. But because IU instate will now cost $120,000, the kid and the parents absolutely have to weigh it all in. Further, that price tag will just make a large percentage of kids just say no thanks. Not worth it. That’s the problem.

 

[hookyIU1990]

Is it really? Sure it’s not for everyone. I agree there. However, the data is clear that a college degree means greater future earnings. Having a more educated populace is a net positive on success. Indiana is down to 52% of graduating high school seniors attending college. That is bad for the state. That’s inarguable.

The root problem with college lies solely in the cost. We are at a place where a kid really has to take a long hard look at whether being, say, a teacher is worth it. A teacher. A professional job that requires further education. But because IU instate will now cost $120,000, the kid and the parents absolutely have to weigh it all in. Further, that price tag will just make a large percentage of kids just say no thanks. Not worth it. That’s the problem.

Degrees for the sake of degrees are a problem too. Not enough people pencil it out as you suggest.

A buddy's daughter wanted to go to Purdue and become a vet tech. There's no way that makes financial sense with a vet tech making less than 30k/yr or whatever it was. He "crushed her dreams" as he tells the story of her reaction to being told he wouldn't pay. LOL

 

[UncleMark]

Degrees for the sake of degrees are a problem too. Not enough people pencil it out as you suggest.

A buddy's daughter wanted to go to Purdue and become a vet tech. There's no way that makes financial sense with a vet tech making less than 30k/yr or whatever it was. He "crushed her dreams" as he tells the story of her reaction to being told he wouldn't pay. LOL

There's no reason in the world that a kid would need to go to a four year institution and obtain a BS degree to be a "vet tech." That kind of shit is the real problem (assuming veterinary employers are requiring this). That should be an "on the job training" position, or an Ivy Tech certificate at most.

 

[hookyIU1990]

There's no reason in the world that a kid would need to go to a four year institution and obtain a BS degree to be a "vet tech." That kind of shit is the real problem (assuming veterinary employers are requiring this). That should be an "on the job training" position, or an Ivy Tech certificate at most.

You can go to Purdue

Program: Veterinary Technician, AAS - Purdue University - Modern Campus Catalog™

The Purdue course catalog bulletin lets you search for every class and course for every major offered at the West Lafayette/Indianapolis campus.

catalog.purdue.edu

Or you can go someplace like International Business College

Veterinary Technology Program: Vet Tech Institute in Indianapolis, IN

Vet Tech Institute at International Business College Indianapolis offers an 18-month AVMA-accredited Veterinary Technology program. Earn your applied science associate degree through hands-on learning and be eligible to take the Veterinary Technician National Exam upon completion of the program.

www.vettechinstitute.edu

I'm surr the Purdue degree is much more desirable, but how would you ever be able to justify the tuition differences relative to salary?

 

[larsIU]

My daughter wants to be a malpractice lawyer. Like, wtf? How did you come to this determination at 17?

I assume b/c she thinks she's gonna get paid. I adivsed her I could connect her with several plaintiff's attorneys (and former) that would advise it is not for the weak willed. Of course I, predictably, have no idea what i'm talking about.

 

[BradStevens]

My daughter wants to be a malpractice lawyer. Like, wtf? How did you come to this determination at 17?

I assume b/c she thinks she's gonna get paid. I adivsed her I could connect her with several plaintiff's attorneys (and former) that would advise it is not for the weak willed. Of course I, predictably, have no idea what i'm talking about.

As in med mal???

 

[larsIU]

As in med mal???

Apparently yes.

I'm stumped as well.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Apparently yes.

I'm stumped as well.

Good for her. It a nice quality of life. Maybe working on an oil rig off the gulf as a backup?

 

[larsIU]

Good for her. It a nice quality of life. Maybe working on an oil rig off the gulf as a backup?

She's been a great math student her whole life. Comes naturally to her. We play backgammon for fun (and she's pretty good at it).

Does she want to use her natural skillset. Oh hell no. I am forcing her to take a visit to Purdue in June.

IU day after Memorial day.

 

[mcmurtry66]

She's been a great math student her whole life. Comes naturally to her. We play backgammon for fun (and she's pretty good at it).

Does she want to use her natural skillset. Oh hell no. I am forcing her to take a visit to Purdue in June.

IU day after Memorial day.

Law is a terrible choice. I’ve said before we have a core group of great guys from school. Only one still practices. All the rest do other shit. Cortez will confirm.

Jdb and twenty might yell at me but all of my friends who just went to work for big companies whether selling meds to renting cars have had the easiest roads

Math. She’s like a unicorn. Don’t waste it on dime a dozen law. Finance or something that is robust

 

[Cortez88]

Law is a terrible choice. I’ve said before we have a core group of great guys from school. Only one still practices. All the rest do other shit. Cortez will confirm.

Jdb and twenty might yell at me but all of my friends who just went to work for big companies whether selling meds to renting cars have had the easiest roads

Math. She’s like a unicorn. Don’t waste it on dime a dozen law. Finance or something that is robust

Agree. There are very few happy lawyers practicing law. As I’ve said before, it’s the only advanced degree where you waste 3 years, take on huge loans, and immediately not want to be a lawyer. People who go to med school typically retire as drs. As one buddy said about making partner at his firm, it just meant he couldn’t find another job in 9 years.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Agree. There are very few happy lawyers practicing law. As I’ve said before, it’s the only advanced degree where you waste 3 years, take on huge loans, and immediately not want to be a lawyer. People who go to med school typically retire as drs. As one buddy said about making partner at his firm, it just meant he couldn’t find another job in 9 years.

I know but we had so much fun in school didn’t we. How were we to know it was going to be miserable. No one told us

 

[DANC]

She's been a great math student her whole life. Comes naturally to her. We play backgammon for fun (and she's pretty good at it).

Does she want to use her natural skillset. Oh hell no. I am forcing her to take a visit to Purdue in June.

IU day after Memorial day.

My son-in-law is a math and science genius - seriously. He got all kinds of awards and money at international science fairs and was "Mr. Science" in Indiana - unheard of for a non-Asian.

Went to IU on a Wells Scholarship - they don't give out many of those. Accepted to MIT, but went to IU because he wanted to be where my daughter was.

Graduated IU with all kinds of honors. Took a few Kelly business classes to get some kind of business certificate.

He's now in his 8th year of trading bonds for Wells Fargo.

I am still gobsmacked how he ever ended up doing that (although his grandfather was a banker. But his dad was an electrical engineer and his uncle was a literal brain surgeon).

It's a huge waste of his talents, imo.

 

[Palmbeachhoosier]

Every kid is told he should go to college. That's the problem.

The support for Vocational Education or Career and Tech Education as it is referred to now days is cyclical. There are times that the powers that be see value and then they revert back to everyone needs to go to college. I currently work at a charter school that emphasizes CTE. For the last three years 100% of our senior class has acquired at least one industry certification. We have approximately 1200 students who choose to attend our school. We have 11 different academies. We offer IT, Digital Film, graphic arts, medical, auto mechanics, auto body, veterinary assisting, business, music and sound production. We have also offered motor cycle and marine mechanics and next year we will be offering Biotech studies. Along with our 100% industry certification , we have a 99% graduation rate.We have a car dealership that chips in a hefty donation each year and have employed a number of our grads.

 

[DANC]

The support for Vocational Education or Career and Tech Education as it is referred to now days is cyclical. There are times that the powers that be see value and then they revert back to everyone needs to go to college. I currently work at a charter school that emphasizes CTE. For the last three years 100% of our senior class has acquired at least one industry certification. We have approximately 1200 students who choose to attend our school. We have 11 different academies. We offer IT, Digital Film, graphic arts, medical, auto mechanics, auto body, veterinary assisting, business, music and sound production. We have also offered motor cycle and marine mechanics and next year we will be offering Biotech studies. Along with our 100% industry certification , we have a 99% graduation rate.We have a car dealership that chips in a hefty donation each year and have employed a number of our grads.

That's some pretty great majors/areas of study.

Can I enroll?

 

[Palmbeachhoosier]

That's some pretty great majors/areas of study.

Can I enroll?

You have to apply. The great thing is we are a charter school and it is completely. By the way I knew I left off one and that is culinary.