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A call for radical reactionaries

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People are, by nature, lazy. Not all, of course. But enough that this society would turn into a nation of stoners pretty quickly. Good for the munchie industry, I guess.

That is so true and the percentage of people that are lazy is a lot greater than most want to admit. I used to have arguments on here with people that said everyone wanted to work if a job was available and that is just not true.


I get caught up in the minutia of this stuff, but I think people are arguing the difference between progress and change.
Bingo.... that is the reason that I said above that you have to define progress because, like you, I thnk there is a lot of arguing the dfference between progress and change.
 
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On the other hand, we could see the beginning of a new Renaissance. How many people have a wonderful novel, or sculpture, or piece of music, or work of architecture, or whatever, inside of them, if only they could find the time and energy after a long day of work to put in the effort?

Or perhaps all that free time gives rise to a new form of democracy, one in which large groups of people genuinely take an active role, not just in donating, or handing out flyers, or voting, but in participating in governance. Decision-making.

We are raised to find our value in our productivity. We measure our value by numbers on a paycheck. So the idea of erasing work naturally seems wrong to us. We're afraid of losing our value. But perhaps we can find our value another way.

(Not saying I believe any of that; just saying there are positive ways to look at the change.)
That is a utopian view. The more likely outcome is that the majority of the world returns to being kicked out of the ownership class and are basically serfs beholden to whom ever controls the A.I.

"You will own nothing and be happy...." You will own nothing and will be distracted by the bread and circuses of the day. Slaves to the WEF.
 
That is a utopian view. The more likely outcome is that the majority of the world returns to being kicked out of the ownership class and are basically serfs beholden to whom ever controls the A.I.

"You will own nothing and be happy...." You will own nothing and will be distracted by the bread and circuses of the day. Slaves to the WEF.
This has been happening for a long time. Here is video of a BMW being made (the Ford video was way longer with a lot of other propaganda).



How many jobs will be lost to self-driving trucks? In the discussions here the response back is "it won't happen". It's going to happen. Maybe not tomorrow. But by 2033? 2030 is when quantum computers are expected, which will make car systems much more robust.

So we could say no, but then we hit a problem. Do you think China will say no? So China will be the one supplying the rest of the world with self-driving trucks.

I don't know what the best answer is, I don't know how we can put the genie back in the bottle. So it seems the better answer is to start planning for the jobless world because I am not sure who can stop it.
 
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How many jobs will be lost to self-driving trucks? In the discussions here the response back is "it won't happen". It's going to happen. Maybe not tomorrow. But by 2033? 2030 is when quantum computers are expected, which will make car systems much more robust.
Was listening to NPR Saturday driving around and they were talking wtih a guy (can't remember his name) who works at a large airport. Advised baggage will be totally automated wtihin a decade or two including the transport by autonomous vehicles routed most efficiently by some kind of AI.

So not just baggage handlers but the management and logisiticians. Those are very well paying white collar jobs.

Whole thing is going to make some strange bedfellows for a ton of people.
 
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I think in a post-scarcity type scenario, the economy will work very differently than it does now. I'm not sure we can even accurately predict how it will work. But it's at least possible that inflation will no longer be a thing. Even money itself may transform into something entirely unlike what it is now.
There is no such thing as post-scarcity. You could lower the labor costs, but raw materials, commodities, and etc. are always going to be scarce.
 
well snarlcakes will appreciate your take on the evolution (devolution) of money. and i agree with cray that it won't happen in our lifetime.
I'd argue the evolution of money is already happening. It's called Bitcoin. Old men can shake their fist at the sky, but it's happening.
 
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Maybe it's not human nature. Maybe it's just the way we've all been trained to behave. Maybe our true nature is actually much better, and we just need to realize it.
It's a luxury for you to live in a country of relative law and order and based on Christian principles. The Founders knew human nature and built that into our laws - you and I have a sense of fair play because of that and it's easy to assume the rest of the world feels that way.

The history of the world indicates a far different reality. Have you looked at Russia and China lately?
 
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There is no such thing as post-scarcity. You could lower the labor costs, but raw materials, commodities, and etc. are always going to be scarce.
True.

I think, though, there would be a fundamental shift if we had practically limitless energy (need fusion), food supply (easiest to imagine, I think), water, and housing (3D printing). At that point, a lot of people will say that's all they need. And once most things are automated, there might not be enough jobs to go around.

Back to the original article, though--one of the reasons the author doesn't want this to happen (which he attribues to Progress, in general) is because it will further erode culture and local and regional variety. I think both ends of the political spectrum might recognize this as a feature worth valuing.

And it might be one of pragmatic (as opposed to solely aesthetic or experiential) value: like federalism, local variety might lead to cultural experimentation that leads to better outcomes. It also might insulate certain cultures from changes that prove evolutionarily deadly. This might also be a good justification for multiculturalism and a moral pluralism.
 
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First you have to define "Progress". What you call progress may not be the same as what I would consider progress.
You also need to split progress up into economic and cultural progress, in my opinion. One can be progressing and the other can be regressing. There are obvious areas in our culture that are regressing.
 
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This has been happening for a long time. Here is video of a BMW being made (the Ford video was way longer with a lot of other propaganda).



How many jobs will be lost to self-driving trucks? In the discussions here the response back is "it won't happen". It's going to happen. Maybe not tomorrow. But by 2033? 2030 is when quantum computers are expected, which will make car systems much more robust.

So we could say no, but then we hit a problem. Do you think China will say no? So China will be the one supplying the rest of the world with self-driving trucks.

I don't know what the best answer is, I don't know how we can put the genie back in the bottle. So it seems the better answer is to start planning for the jobless world because I am not sure who can stop it.
The jobless world will ultimately be followed by a spasm of violence IMO. Think French Revolution. I don't believe that people will be happy with subsistence and I think there are too many people to support earning much extra in a gig economy.

The arrival of AI will not be progress, it will set back human rights by centuries.
 
That is a utopian view. The more likely outcome is that the majority of the world returns to being kicked out of the ownership class and are basically serfs beholden to whom ever controls the A.I.

"You will own nothing and be happy...." You will own nothing and will be distracted by the bread and circuses of the day. Slaves to the WEF.
And that's the dystopian view. Personally, I think your scenario is more likely. I'm just offering that it's not guaranteed.
 
The jobless world will ultimately be followed by a spasm of violence IMO. Think French Revolution. I don't believe that people will be happy with subsistence and I think there are too many people to support earning much extra in a gig economy.

The arrival of AI will not be progress, it will set back human rights by centuries.

All the buggy whip makers will be out of work!!!
 
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You also need to split progress up into economic progress and cultural progress, in my opinion. One can be progressing and the other can be regressing. There are obvious areas in our culture that are regressing.
And they might affect each other. One way to frame the author's argument, is to remind economists of their favorite sayings: there is no such thing as a free lunch and everything is a tradeoff.

So while the economist might seize on efficiency and production (hey this new tech or economic arrangement is great! look at the time and human effort it saves), the radical reactionary will point out: using that tech has a tradeoff--it might increase economic efficiency, but it has a deleterious effect on our culture.

One possible large scale, current phenomenon: the rise of globalism and the populist response.

I think these are all really interesting ideas to think about. But at the end of the day, I don't see how the reactionary radicals can stop what they see as Progress absent a cataclysmic, near existential event (some science fiction has this as a premise, where in a post-apocalypse, people blame the scientists and kill them all). Also, I can think of an example that tried to advance the interests of locality, sustenance, etc that turned out tragically -Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge. I'm sure that's one reason the author promotes this as a local, grass-roots movement as opposed to a centralized one (which again highlights the paradox: the resistance probably must be top down).
 
I'd argue the evolution of money is already happening. It's called Bitcoin. Old men can shake their fist at the sky, but it's happening.
Yup. That’s why the future is ours!! Let the old f*ucks on here die off with their dirty bills
 
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All the buggy whip makers will be out of work!!!
When the buggy whip makers went out of work, there were car manufacturers you could go work for. You still needed people working jobs. Lots of people. AI isn't changing what you build, it is changing who will build it and it won't just be replacing blue collar work, it will start replacing white collar as well. Your need for a human lawyer will decrease for a whole host of items. Accountants become less necessary. You don't need service workers. Logistics will be moved by programmed robots.

It is going back to the serf days but at least back in those days there was at least menial labor to keep people busy. You won't need that anymore either as the Roomba mops and cleans, a John Deere robot does agriculture, etc. So what you end up with is a whole bunch of idle humans with nothing to do. That invariably will mean people acting out. You will have to have an authoritarian and repressive regime to keep people in line. You can look at our inner cities and low income rural areas and catch just a small glimpse of what people who feel that they have no upward mobility and receive subsistence payments live like.

The chances of this going Star Trek are slim.
 
You silly rabbit. You don't actually SPEND cryptocurrency, you get rich off it by exchanging it for dollars down the road without it actually doing or improving anything. You can't lose.
I flipped the switch to your internet access because Bitcoin is seen as a threat to the new order. Good luck exchanging it.

Anything you don't physically have access to is not yours. It is something that can be taken from you at the whim of anyone with the power to enforce their whim. That includes the vast majority of all of our "paper" wealth because most of us don't have the actual paper. We have 1's and 0's on a device.


A "liberal democracy" not too far away has already played with that reality to control people. Imagine how much easier that gets when not only do they control your bank but they also are the ones providing your UBI. The generational wealth people become the lords and ladies in that world and the billions of us left over are disposable serfs. People to be controlled like cattle.
 
How will you spend your Bitcoin if they just throttle your ability to access it?
If you have a private wallet you can still access it and send it to other people. The only thing the U.S can do is slow down adoption for U.S. citizens, which would be terrible for the U.S.
 
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I flipped the switch to your internet access because Bitcoin is seen as a threat to the new order. Good luck exchanging it.

Anything you don't physically have access to is not yours. It is something that can be taken from you at the whim of anyone with the power to enforce their whim. That includes the vast majority of all of our "paper" wealth because most of us don't have the actual paper. We have 1's and 0's on a device.


A "liberal democracy" not too far away has already played with that reality to control people. Imagine how much easier that gets when not only do they control your bank but they also are the ones providing your UBI. The generational wealth people become the lords and ladies in that world and the billions of us left over are disposable serfs. People to be controlled like cattle.
When the state provides everything, the individual owns nothing. Good-bye property rights.
 
If you have a private wallet you can still access it and send it to other people. The only thing the U.S can do is slow down adoption for U.S. citizens, which would be terrible for the U.S.
As Dan mentioned to Goat up above, you are viewing this through the lens of how the world works now in this country. Any country can be China.
 
Exactly. And property rights equal freedom.
And for those whose jobs have already been automated and can't afford property? Where were you when millions of UAW jobs were lost?

on edit. Millions were just UAW, other blue-collar. Not all were lost to foreign countries, watch that BMW video. If all steel jobs and auto jobs were back, we'd still only need a fraction of what was needed in 1960.
 
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We’re all going to be influencers. Showin that life

I don't know what the future will hold, my guess is it will be halfway between Goat and Crazy. I suspect all change has led to "the sky is falling". As I have mentioned, all those people that had power and wealth from memorizing all the religious texts certainly were convinced written language would destroy humanity. Southern plantation owners were convinced emancipation would destroy the south. Some believed interracial marriage would destroy the country.

Seldom, very seldom, almost never, are the extremes correct.
 
And for those whose jobs have already been automated and can't afford property? Where were you when millions of UAW jobs were lost?

on edit. Millions were just UAW, other blue-collar. Not all were lost to foreign countries, watch that BMW video. If all steel jobs and auto jobs were back, we'd still only need a fraction of what was needed in 1960.
Same for pipeline and energy workers thrown out of work, right?

Couldn't the UAW workers learn to code? I mean, if you can assemble car, you can learn to code, right?
 
People still own Bitcoin in China.

What good is bitcoin? You tout it with inflation. If someone wants to sell a house for $1 million dollars as it has gone way up in value over the last couple of years, do they sell it to you for $750,000 in bitcoin? Otherwise, your bitcoin is still having to pay the inflated price.
 
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I texted my friend and confirmed that, indeed, a water bong was the bong in question and that he preferred ice water as well.
To remain healthy per today's world you have to use Sparkling ice water not ice water from the tap. Black Cherry is the best.
 
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You also need to split progress up into economic and cultural progress, in my opinion. One can be progressing and the other can be regressing. There are obvious areas in our culture that are regressing.
There is no regression of understanding. Only progression. How we deal with that understanding can be progressive or regressive, if we hvae to use those terms.


All the buggy whip makers will be out of work!!!
You need an xhamster account.

So what you end up with is a whole bunch of idle humans with nothing to do
There won't be a bunch of idle humans. We will die off. We are still in a phase of human history where we have more kids than we need. Japan's birthrate is falling. China will slow, India will slow, so will the US. Population will decline as it cannot be supported.

Of course this will take 500 yeras and we'll all be dead.
 
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And for those whose jobs have already been automated and can't afford property? Where were you when millions of UAW jobs were lost?

on edit. Millions were just UAW, other blue-collar. Not all were lost to foreign countries, watch that BMW video. If all steel jobs and auto jobs were back, we'd still only need a fraction of what was needed in 1960.
There was at least a job you COULD move to. That is the point. Automation isn't evil. Automation that takes away almost every potential job is dangerous though.
 
What good is bitcoin? You tout it with inflation.
If someone wants to sell a house for $1 million dollars as it has gone way up in value over the last couple of years, do they sell it to you for $750,000 in bitcoin? Otherwise, your bitcoin is still having to pay the inflated price.
The price of the home decreases in Bitcoin. An average house has decreased from costing millions of bitcoin to around 40ish Bitcoin today. You see similar trends in gold (longer time horizon). Harder assets increase in value over time and can purchase more.
 
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Humans will find a way to adopt to what every happens. Will we be happy with the change, no one knows just as we don't know how people will accept being old and invalid. I know I doubt that finding new talents will happen, I doubt we will accept being serfs.

The problem is none of us knows how AI will change the world as it will impact things we don't know right now. Anyone thinking they do know or can know are like people who thought they could anticipate the world back at the turn of the 18th century. Right now things are being developed to make work easier for people but with the advance of technology like chatGPT it replaces human work of writing. It will write novels in your style of writing so what is the incentive to write it yourself. This is just a very small change of what is coming in the soon to be future. How far will humans go without doing things for themselves?
 
True.

I think, though, there would be a fundamental shift if we had practically limitless energy (need fusion), food supply (easiest to imagine, I think), water, and housing (3D printing). At that point, a lot of people will say that's all they need. And once most things are automated, there might not be enough jobs to go around.
I read the other today (because of fossil fuels) it would take around 200 people working 24/7 to produce the amount of energy each of us use in a day. On some level we have limitless energy, now, and there are still plenty of jobs. It's extremely hard to predict the future. Especially, decades out.
 
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To remain healthy per today's world you have to use Sparkling ice water not ice water from the tap. Black Cherry is the best.

I once was out with my buddy who wanted to go to his house for a quick rip. He did it without any water in the bong, unknowingly. Even more impressive, it was a four footer.

I thought I saw a dead body that day.
 
I flipped the switch to your internet access because Bitcoin is seen as a threat to the new order. Good luck exchanging it.

Anything you don't physically have access to is not yours. It is something that can be taken from you at the whim of anyone with the power to enforce their whim. That includes the vast majority of all of our "paper" wealth because most of us don't have the actual paper. We have 1's and 0's on a device.


A "liberal democracy" not too far away has already played with that reality to control people. Imagine how much easier that gets when not only do they control your bank but they also are the ones providing your UBI. The generational wealth people become the lords and ladies in that world and the billions of us left over are disposable serfs. People to be controlled like cattle.
When the state provides everything, the individual owns nothing. Good-bye property rights.
The danger of big government, whether we call it a liberal democracy or not, isn't controlling people; it’s making life too easy and too comfortable. And for the majority of us who are not white and male, that push toward a life free of bumps is more profound. This robs individuals of something far more important than property or material goods, it takes away purpose and motivation.
 
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The price of the home decreases in Bitcoin. An average house has decreased from costing millions of bitcoin to around 40ish Bitcoin today. You seem similar trends in gold (longer time horizon). Harder assets increase in value over time and can purchase more.

That only depends on the value of bitcoin. If you bought all your bitcoin on March 28 of last year when it was at $48,000, it would take more bitcoin today. That bitcoin has lost value. In that regard it is no different than buying Apple stock, except Apple stock pays dividends too.
 
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