Wilkerson
- Thread starter jopajackson
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Bailey. Say it with me.
Well woodson was a terrible coach and got guys with money. We are likely going to have to start overpaying average players at some point to fill the roster.
these young folks didn't grow up ever in a world like we knew (amateur athletics).
they grew up in a world where you can become infinitely wealthy just recording yourself or your kids doing day to day stuff.
hit the subscribe button! give me a "like"!
Also, I wasn't so much liking your post as I was helping you monetize it.
If he misses on Wilkerson what is that already misses on Conwell, Dix, and Wilkerson. Enright played for him and DeVries is his son so he has recruited and got Bailey not very promising as a recruiter so far.
I feel like it is a chicken/egg thing. Tough for players to commit when they cannot see who they will be playing with. They will not see who they will be playing with until some players commit.
Once he gets 2-3 more players...it will be easy to get the rest.
You call them small minded and dumb. I would just call them whiny ass bitches.
Why should IU care about that? This is about playing basketball at Indiana, not about giving some kid a lottery claim.
Because IU wants to have a competitively elite basketball program?
I guess they could go raid the single A high school ranks and you could feel great about them not getting paid? While they’re getting their asses beaten by 70.
What are you even talking about at this point?
Any school not close to Dix’s mother was going to miss on him. His mother is sick and he wanted to be closer to her. Can’t hold that one against DeVries.
Did Wilkerson commit to UK? I’ve seen posts on their forum that say it’s IU and ones that say it’s UK. Guess we might not know for a few days if he takes his Auburn visit.
Its Impossible to field a competitive team by using "how much will you give me" as the guide. That is exactly why they weren't winning with players like Ware and Ballo.
Recruit players who want to go to IU and play at IU. The NIL war chest should be used as a way to prevent departures of key players and to get a few talented pieces to fill gaps. If you use it to simply go out and outbid everyone, you will end up with an entitled team that can't play.
Driven by winning. Money has to be secondary. And avoiding players who think they can get a lifetime windfall- that is an absolute. That is, if you want to win.
We didn't win enough with Ware and Ballo because of who was coaching, plain and simple.
In this day and age, are their enough talented players that "want to go to IU and play for IU"?
I don't think so. They all want paid or at least, IMO, 99.9% or them.
Then you should be happy we DIDN’T get Conwell bc Louisville overpaid for him.
Sounds great. When you already have a roster filled with competitively elite high major players. We have 4 players committed to play for IU next year. And a brand new coach. It’s gonna take some cash to get things going for DeVries. Obviously.
I'm in to bad analogies... So here's one I kinda hope is applicable.
DeVries is probably like a guy that gets a promotion at a huge corporation. And with that promotion comes life changing pay, AND job altering resources at his disposal. Instead of going out and buying the red Ferrari, he keeps his trusty Jeep Cherokee, and resolves to not change who he is, and to use his new found wealth and resources to just make a better version of who he already is. And instead of building a fancy new office building, with a million dollar office upgrade, "just because he can", he just wants a clean, practical, functional office to run his organization out of.
He's going to have to overpay a little bit, I assume, to get things rolling. But not for guys that don't fit, and I suspect he isn't a guy that's going to pay over sticker for the red Ferrari.
On this board...we have people that are blasting him for not doing the overpaying, or not landing the "bag guys"...and we have people that are blasting him for window shopping at the Ferrari dealerships.
He's a very good basketball coach. He had a team at Drake that would have been competitive in the B10. He'll build a decent roster for this year, that will be solid and competitive. I personally think the bar should be higher than that, but I still think his "floor" is what we've seen the last 7-8 years. I think we'd all do well to think about guys like Golden, Pearl, Hurley, etc... if next year's team doesn't contend for a B10 title, or even struggles to make the NCAAs. Obviously there are examples of immediate success, recently, but I'm young enough that I'd trade that immediate success for a great program long term, if DeVries feels like building the culture is more important than spending every penny of the NIL war chest.
Now that we’ve missed on Wilkerson, I ‘m going to restate my question from the previous thread on Dix. Is it time to start asking if, irrespective of who the coach is, IU has become an inherently difficult place to recruit men’s basketball players? If so, why?
Just looking at it objectively at this point I think it actually has. I’d be willing to bet that even the golden boy, Brad Stevens, would have trouble. What I don’t know is why.
That all sounds great, but how does IU sell "driven by winning" when they haven't gotten past the sweet 16 in 23 years?
Well the good news is he may save the boosters alot of money. If we just get "culture " guys he will not need 10 million dollars to field a team. He should be able to do it with 5 million probably. Woodson spent 6 million and got all those top ranked guys so now way we should have to spend that much for lower ranked guys.
or it will watered down by then just to get several mediocre players to fill the roster. Lost out on several great guys that would've made a difference already. I will hold out hope this gets finished decently rather than meh.
Could be... Sounding like the market will probably drive that number higher, no matter what. Tucker will be a 7 figure guy, for sure. Reed I'm sure is as well. He seemingly still wants Wilkerson, Freeman, Conerly...maybe gets in on Overton...all of those guys will push or surpass 7 figures, I'm sure.
The point though...more of a hope than an actual fact, because none of us KNOW why we only have 4 players committed... but the point is that he's likely NOT just chasing random talent with large bags of money. He could have given Mack and Malik a ton of money to stay, and I bet they would have. He probably had an opportunity to "out bid" for Conwell.
I think he's in the process of trying to build Indiana basketball "his way", and I think most of the long time IU fan posters on this board, would appreciate his approach and thought process on it all... Just a guess. Who knows?
And what point will boosters say enough enough if every single year the price goes higher or will they just continue to keep paying. BYU is paying one guy 7 million I mean just crazy. Why even go to the NBA you can make more in college.
The problem I'm guessing maybe he's running in to is that our NIL bank was based around last year's market where $1.5 was a high level starter. In 1 year it feels like that #s jumped to $3-4million, from reports I've seen. Suddenly, the 10-11mill # we've heard, isn't so impressive when we're having to sign 13 new guys and other teams are having to replace 3-5 guys.
In order for that to be true, it would imply that both Dolson and DeVries don't have a good handle on where the NIL market was, and is going... I can't fathom that's true, in any way.
Having said that... its an evolving and ever changing world. Conwell could be an example of what you're saying. DeVries seemingly liked the fit, and Conwell was intrigued enough with DeVries and IU to visit. I suspect at that point, IU's NIL offer was competitive with the market, and Louisville blew it all out of the water. Might be happening again with Wilkerson.
Right now...I'd put DeVries more in the Otzelberger, Pearl, Golden, Painter even...camp. Which is building his roster with "B" tier guys that fit his style, mindset, and program desires. But it might also be that he's just adjusting to the new numbers that schools like Louisville, BYU, etc... are forcing the market to be. And that he and IU will pay guys like Wilkerson, Conerly, etc... like some of the others would?
If you are wanting to sell your house and three people want to make offers within a few days of one another, you will wait to get all three offers instead of jumping on the first one. That's smart.
Yes, sadly this is >90% a financial transaction, these days
Yes, sadly this is >90% a financial transaction, these days
I'm guessing the #s this year took everyone a bit by surprise, I'm just thinking it's a lot easier for guys like May, Kelsey, Pope, Hurley, Pearl, and Golden to adjust because they don't have as many slots to fill and also have recent success to point to to help ease the ask. We have a brand new coach and I'm sure Dolson had to calm a lot of fears after what was a large NIL budget last year that didn't get desired results and now he might be having to go back to the well again to deal with the increased deal $. A lot easier when you are saying, "you liked our sucess last year and with the new climate we need another million or two to put us over the top" versus we need 4-5 million and are in a complete rebuild.
Logically... the entire roster has to be adjusted if you're going to pay a new guy that level of money. I put the odds of an All conference level returning player "sticking with last year's NIL agreement"...at around zero... when a new guy is given 2-3 times as much as he is.
In short, if the LVille newcomers are getting 3-4 million per... any of the high level guys that are staying, are as well.
No Woodson was able to bring in the #2 rated portal class last year and he is an awful coach. We can argue that these guys were overrated but he still got them. And if I recall word was DD was going to get 10 million bucks so really there are no excuses when you have that kind of money you should be able to get 13 players
So we went for the top guys like ballo getting 1.2 to now 4 million. What will they demand next year like 7 million? I really hope the ncaa is not still calling these guys student athletes.
If the going rates have jumped, the remaining players are going to want more too. Not great for team chemistry if your returning players are looking at the new guys making $1-2 million more than they are.
Did you know that you can go to school and get paid for being an athlete at the same time?
My guess is the going rate for top players in a few years will be 6 or 7 million. You will need 20 million in nil just to be competitive. NBA 2.0 at its finest.
Appears so. Schools like BYU and Louisville, apparently, are currently setting the market. Will that play out for all the schools? Is there enough "NIL money" to support that? I doubt anyone knows that, right now. But your value is what someone is willing to pay you. And right now, there are some schools, apparently, paying 3-4 million, or more, for starter level players. That seems to be the reality. If that sticks, maybe we'll be headed for schools like BYU and Louisville becoming like the Yankees and Dodgers?
I think IU probably has the capacity to keep up, if "they" want to...but it remains to be seen how DeVries, Dolson, and IU's key NIL contributors, want to operate. There are very pertinent recent examples of success by paying less money for talented mid level guys that fit your program and style. I suspect that's where DeVries is headed. His challenge, right now, is weathering this storm of potentially inflated NIL offers. And having to build an entire roster in this climate. He just needs to land a couple more guys, get a working starting lineup going, and I'm sure he'll be able to attract a handful more high 6 figure, to low 7 figure guys, that he can win with.
The House settlement could/should change things pretty significantly as it pertains to NIL.
Let's say DeVries does find a bunch of players that others are overlooking, and is able to get them cheap and be very successful and win with them. I.e., finish near top of conference standings, do well in tournament. Now with a record of winning, those players are all going to have the opportunity to enter the portal and get a lot more money somewhere else. It will be impossible to keep a successful team together without paying them their market value.
It appears boosters may have an unlimited amount of money and I honestly don't see how college basketball will be any different than the NBA in a few years. The only real difference will be the bands and the cheerleaders. Everything else will be about the same. If its gotten this out of control in like two years I cannot eve imagine what it will be like in 5 years. Letting guys just transfer at will was one of the first mistakes imo.
I certainly give you more credit than you deserve for being able to understand what's going on. Have you paid attention to how we've gotten here? LITIGATION
My gut feeling is that it will be worse (for the schools) than the NBA. Without contracts, like in the NBA, we'll see nearly 100% turnover or attempted turnover every year.
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