Why we stunk this year

[mushroomgod_1]

Obviously overall team dysfunction is the best answer, but from a #s viewpoint, I think the single biggest problem was Justin Smith's play.

I would encourage you guys to take a look at a site called sports-reference.com, college basketball section (SR CBB). Just type in a guys name and "stats" on google and you can pull it up.

If you focus on just a few #s I think they are instructive:

eFG%.....50.8 (effective FG%, a # that takes into consideration 2 pt%, 3pt%, and FT%)--whole yr
PER........12.3 (Player Efficiency Ranking)--whole yr
ORtg.......91.5 (a ranking of offensive efficiency.....100 looks to be average...the higher the better)
DRtg.......107.00 (a ranking of DE....100 looks to be average...the lower the better)

Of the guys who played major minutes, JS's combination of offensive and defensive inefficiency really stand out. The DE # is really painful, given that JD was billed as a "defensive stopper".

One other thing I want to point out that really stands out......just how horrible Fitzner was. He played a total of 160 minutes in league play, equal to 4 complete games. His ORtg & DRtg #s for league play were 74.8 and 108.2, respectively. The 108.2 # is really, really bad for a tall defender, as their DE #s tend to be lower than guards on average. And the 74.8 OE # is off the charts bad....maybe the worst # for any BT player that played legit minutes in conference play. As I recall, D. Anderson's # was 69 something, worse but he played so little.....

EDIT--The OR & DR #s I cited are for league play only---look under the table "Conference Play Per 100 Possessions, near the bottom of the page)

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Obviously overall team dysfunction is the best answer, but from a #s viewpoint, I think the single biggest problem was Justin Smith's play.

I would encourage you guys to take a look at a site called sports-reference.com, college basketball section (SR CBB). Just type in a guys name and "stats" on google and you can pull it up.

If you focus on just a few #s I think they are instructive:

eFG%.....50.8 (effective FG%, a # that takes into consideration 2 pt%, 3pt%, and FT%)--whole yr
PER........12.3 (Player Efficiency Ranking)--whole yr
ORtg.......91.5 (a ranking of offensive efficiency.....100 looks to be average...the higher the better)
DRtg.......107.00 (a ranking of DE....100 looks to be average...the lower the better)

Of the guys who played major minutes, JS's combination of offensive and defensive inefficiency really stand out. The DE # is really painful, given that JD was billed as a "defensive stopper".

One other thing I want to point out that really stands out......just how horrible Fitzner was. He played a total of 160 minutes in league play, equal to 4 complete games. His ORtg & DRtg #s for league play were 74.8 and 108.2, respectively. The 108.2 # is really, really bad for a tall defender, as their DE #s tend to be lower than guards on average. And the 74.8 OE # is off the charts bad....maybe the worst # for any BT player that played legit minutes in conference play. As I recall, D. Anderson's # was 69 something, worse but he played so little.....

EDIT--The OR & DR #s I cited are for league play only---look under the table "Conference Play Per 100 Possessions, near the bottom of the page)

One other matter of interest-----Fitzner's OR #s at S.M., in conference play, for his prior 3 years of play, were 126.5, 123.8, & 127.8......while his DR #s were 97.4, 94.2, & 100.9.......so, in his league play, for his minutes played, he was a highly efficient offensive player and an average defensive player. For this reason, I don't bash CAM for getting him....but it did backfire.

 

[IU? I'm Fine]

Obviously overall team dysfunction is the best answer, but from a #s viewpoint, I think the single biggest problem was Justin Smith's play.

I would encourage you guys to take a look at a site called sports-reference.com, college basketball section (SR CBB). Just type in a guys name and "stats" on google and you can pull it up.

If you focus on just a few #s I think they are instructive:

eFG%.....50.8 (effective FG%, a # that takes into consideration 2 pt%, 3pt%, and FT%)--whole yr
PER........12.3 (Player Efficiency Ranking)--whole yr
ORtg.......91.5 (a ranking of offensive efficiency.....100 looks to be average...the higher the better)
DRtg.......107.00 (a ranking of DE....100 looks to be average...the lower the better)

Of the guys who played major minutes, JS's combination of offensive and defensive inefficiency really stand out. The DE # is really painful, given that JD was billed as a "defensive stopper".

One other thing I want to point out that really stands out......just how horrible Fitzner was. He played a total of 160 minutes in league play, equal to 4 complete games. His ORtg & DRtg #s for league play were 74.8 and 108.2, respectively. The 108.2 # is really, really bad for a tall defender, as their DE #s tend to be lower than guards on average. And the 74.8 OE # is off the charts bad....maybe the worst # for any BT player that played legit minutes in conference play. As I recall, D. Anderson's # was 69 something, worse but he played so little.....

EDIT--The OR & DR #s I cited are for league play only---look under the table "Conference Play Per 100 Possessions, near the bottom of the page)

Dysfunction? Much too broad.

Do you mean team chemistry, coaching, out-of-position requirements, coaching, injuries, no shooters, what?

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Dysfunction? Much too broad.

Do you mean team chemistry, coaching, out-of-position requirements, coaching, injuries, no shooters, what?

Passive attitudes almost all the way around, but especially Smith, RL & RP. RL & RP can be forgiven,as freshmen, but that doesn't solve the problem. Guys like DD, AD, and McRoberts had appropriate attitudes, but just weren't good enough as players to shame the others.

Passive-Aggressive attitude of DG. When you have 0 idea of what one of your best players is going to do next at any given time it's not a good situation.

Injuries and lack of shooters were major problems to be overcome, no doubt, but they could have been overcome to a certain extent, and they weren't.

I really feel bad for Morgan, It had to have been exhausting trying to 'lead' that group.....like trying to herd a bunch of cats.....

As far as CAM goes....I feel bad for him as well. He inherited a very bad situation.....however, unlike JM, he gets $3.5M/year to fix it, so that reduces my sympathy.

 

[iubud]

Obviously overall team dysfunction is the best answer, but from a #s viewpoint, I think the single biggest problem was Justin Smith's play.

I would encourage you guys to take a look at a site called sports-reference.com, college basketball section (SR CBB). Just type in a guys name and "stats" on google and you can pull it up.

If you focus on just a few #s I think they are instructive:

eFG%.....50.8 (effective FG%, a # that takes into consideration 2 pt%, 3pt%, and FT%)--whole yr
PER........12.3 (Player Efficiency Ranking)--whole yr
ORtg.......91.5 (a ranking of offensive efficiency.....100 looks to be average...the higher the better)
DRtg.......107.00 (a ranking of DE....100 looks to be average...the lower the better)

Of the guys who played major minutes, JS's combination of offensive and defensive inefficiency really stand out. The DE # is really painful, given that JD was billed as a "defensive stopper".

One other thing I want to point out that really stands out......just how horrible Fitzner was. He played a total of 160 minutes in league play, equal to 4 complete games. His ORtg & DRtg #s for league play were 74.8 and 108.2, respectively. The 108.2 # is really, really bad for a tall defender, as their DE #s tend to be lower than guards on average. And the 74.8 OE # is off the charts bad....maybe the worst # for any BT player that played legit minutes in conference play. As I recall, D. Anderson's # was 69 something, worse but he played so little.....

EDIT--The OR & DR #s I cited are for league play only---look under the table "Conference Play Per 100 Possessions, near the bottom of the page)

I am sure the statistics are accurate, but it is not just Justin's fault. It is every player's fault that wasn't good enough to replace him in the lineup. The statistics should remind us of the deep roster problem that exists and made worse with injuries.

Archie coached a season of constant change of who was available to practice and play. We were often left with a bench that was not capable of matching up with our opponents or have an effective practice. That is why we "stunk".

Looking down the bench at one point and only seeing Anderson, Forrester, Moore and Fitzner available in a B1G game tells the story.

 

[frikkenfrakken]

Thanks for posting...I've been spending time on that site this year.

One thing I'll note is that I don't believe the O rating and D rating are adjusted for strength of schedule...so it would have been really surprising for Fitzner to come in and post the same numbers at IU that he did at SMC. But...still disappointed he didn't play better.

I've been reviewing those numbers, and it struck me how bad our non-Romeo guards were this year. There was a point, based on PER, where our actual best starting lineup was Langford at point guard and 4 bigs. Now, a couple of those bigs had a high PER based on a small sample size, so it probably wouldn't have worked. But either way, I definitely think Archie relied on Smith too much, and I would have like to see him give Thompson and Moore more run. After all, it's not like we were killing it during that ugly stretch in conference. Why not sit him a game and see if you get more effort out of him?

I think we eventually saw Archie do that (in the second half of a game) and Smith played better afterward. But...Archie also sees what happens in practice and I don't. If Smith kills Moore in practice everyday, I dunno how you start Moore over him without sending the wrong message.

The numbers on kenpom say we improved this year, but not by as much as we would have liked. We also fell from 25th around the middle of the season all the way to 50th here at the end. We need to see continued growth in their system next year. I think the biggest key will be the defense. This is where Archie hangs his hat, and if he can put out a top 10 or top 15 defense next year (we were 30th this year, playing small), then we should be a tournament team. Each point in scoring defense we improve is a point of scoring from Langford and Morgan we don't have to replace.

Should be interesting. I wish it was October.

 

[iubud]

One other matter of interest-----Fitzner's OR #s at S.M., in conference play, for his prior 3 years of play, were 126.5, 123.8, & 127.8......while his DR #s were 97.4, 94.2, & 100.9.......so, in his league play, for his minutes played, he was a highly efficient offensive player and an average defensive player. For this reason, I don't bash CAM for getting him....but it did backfire.

Archie had an extra scholarship late in the year. Crean would have found a gem like Gelon or Priller that would occupy a scholarship for years to come. Archie used a scholarship on a player for one year as an insurance policy in case Davis wasn't available.

It didn't backfire. It just didn't help as we expected based on Fitzner's prior 3 years.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

I am sure the statistics are accurate, but it is not just Justin's fault. It is every player's fault that wasn't good enough to replace him in the lineup. The statistics should remind us of the deep roster problem that exists and made worse with injuries.

Archie coached a season of constant change of who was available to practice and play. We were often left with a bench that was not capable of matching up with our opponents or have an effective practice. That is why we "stunk".

Looking down the bench at one point and only seeing Anderson, Forrester, Moore and Fitzner available in a B1G game tells the story.

Don't disagree...........it does say a lot that after all the angst over injuries we eventually get our whole roster back, and we lay an egg against OSU. And then, absent RL, we lay an egg against WSU.

I've been around a couple of dysfunctional athletic teams before, and not infrequently when you're finally ready to finally give up on them they have a little rally & give you some false hope. Then, in the end, they fall apart again. I think that's what happened with IU this year. And I strongly suspect that it's what will happen with DG next year.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Thanks for posting...I've been spending time on that site this year.

One thing I'll note is that I don't believe the O rating and D rating are adjusted for strength of schedule...so it would have been really surprising for Fitzner to come in and post the same numbers at IU that he did at SMC. But...still disappointed he didn't play better.

I've been reviewing those numbers, and it struck me how bad our non-Romeo guards were this year. There was a point, based on PER, where our actual best starting lineup was Langford at point guard and 4 bigs. Now, a couple of those bigs had a high PER based on a small sample size, so it probably wouldn't have worked. But either way, I definitely think Archie relied on Smith too much, and I would have like to see him give Thompson and Moore more run. After all, it's not like we were killing it during that ugly stretch in conference. Why not sit him a game and see if you get more effort out of him?

I think we eventually saw Archie do that (in the second half of a game) and Smith played better afterward. But...Archie also sees what happens in practice and I don't. If Smith kills Moore in practice everyday, I dunno how you start Moore over him without sending the wrong message.

The numbers on kenpom say we improved this year, but not by as much as we would have liked. We also fell from 25th around the middle of the season all the way to 50th here at the end. We need to see continued growth in their system next year. I think the biggest key will be the defense. This is where Archie hangs his hat, and if he can put out a top 10 or top 15 defense next year (we were 30th this year, playing small), then we should be a tournament team. Each point in scoring defense we improve is a point of scoring from Langford and Morgan we don't have to replace.

Should be interesting. I wish it was October.

Nice post....as for that "wish it was October" line.....you are a masochist.....I'm going to need 3 months of therapy before I can watch these guys again.

 

[coachv jr]

Passive attitudes almost all the way around, but especially Smith, RL & RP. RL & RP can be forgiven,as freshmen, but that doesn't solve the problem. Guys like DD, AD, and McRoberts had appropriate attitudes, but just weren't good enough as players to shame the others.

Passive-Aggressive attitude of DG. When you have 0 idea of what one of your best players is going to do next at any given time it's not a good situation.

Injuries and lack of shooters were major problems to be overcome, no doubt, but they could have been overcome to a certain extent, and they weren't.

I really feel bad for Morgan, It had to have been exhausting trying to 'lead' that group.....like trying to herd a bunch of cats.....

As far as CAM goes....I feel bad for him as well. He inherited a very bad situation.....however, unlike JM, he gets $3.5M/year to fix it, so that reduces my sympathy.

someone who was at the game last night said he witnessed mcroberts rolling his eyes and shaking his head at miller last night. if true, mcroberts belongs in a different category. or miller is bad at his job and mcroberts knows it

 

[iubud]

Don't disagree...........it does say a lot that after all the angst over injuries we eventually get our whole roster back, and we lay an egg against OSU. And then, absent RL, we lay an egg against WSU.

I've been around a couple of dysfunctional athletic teams before, and not infrequently when you're finally ready to finally give up on them they have a little rally & give you some false hope. Then, in the end, they fall apart again. I think that's what happened with IU this year. And I strongly suspect that it's what will happen with DG next year.

Injuries killed a team that was already young and could not afford to lose anyone. We were never able to grow and learn to play together. We were good enough early to depend on RL, Morgan, and an improving Phinisee.

Other teams were hitting their stride at a time weren't sure who would be available to play. Phinisee's injury set us back. We also didn't have a healthy McBob or Davis much of that time. Al and Devonte also missed time as well putting Damezi into a role he wasn't ready for.

We could not catch up fast enough at the end when we had everyone back. When everything was coming together, we lost our leading scorer plus Thompson missed time to illness.

 

[ufo33]

This is what happens when the best shooter - Green, also happens to be the worst decision maker. And the best leaper - Smith, can't shoot or consistently defend.

 

[chaboom]

Obviously overall team dysfunction is the best answer, but from a #s viewpoint, I think the single biggest problem was Justin Smith's play.

I would encourage you guys to take a look at a site called sports-reference.com, college basketball section (SR CBB). Just type in a guys name and "stats" on google and you can pull it up.

If you focus on just a few #s I think they are instructive:

eFG%.....50.8 (effective FG%, a # that takes into consideration 2 pt%, 3pt%, and FT%)--whole yr
PER........12.3 (Player Efficiency Ranking)--whole yr
ORtg.......91.5 (a ranking of offensive efficiency.....100 looks to be average...the higher the better)
DRtg.......107.00 (a ranking of DE....100 looks to be average...the lower the better)

Of the guys who played major minutes, JS's combination of offensive and defensive inefficiency really stand out. The DE # is really painful, given that JD was billed as a "defensive stopper".

One other thing I want to point out that really stands out......just how horrible Fitzner was. He played a total of 160 minutes in league play, equal to 4 complete games. His ORtg & DRtg #s for league play were 74.8 and 108.2, respectively. The 108.2 # is really, really bad for a tall defender, as their DE #s tend to be lower than guards on average. And the 74.8 OE # is off the charts bad....maybe the worst # for any BT player that played legit minutes in conference play. As I recall, D. Anderson's # was 69 something, worse but he played so little.....

EDIT--The OR & DR #s I cited are for league play only---look under the table "Conference Play Per 100 Possessions, near the bottom of the page)

I don't know how to judge or rank those advanced stats but I don't need to look further than Smith's stats of: 22% 3pt shooting, 51% free throws, 28 assists and 65 turnovers. He started 32 games and averaged 24.5 minutes. Be all that what it may -- the problem was we didn't have anybody better

 

[ufo33]

I don't know how to judge or rank those advanced stats but I don't need to look further than Smith's stats of: 22% 3pt shooting, 51% free throws, 28 assists and 65 turnovers. He started 32 games and averaged 24.5 minutes. Be all that what it may -- the problem was we didn't have anybody better

Smith is a high level athlete with low level basketball skills. A bench player on a good team at best.
Not a B1G starter. I don't see the basketball talent.

 

[TR32]

Not just poor shooting, a lot of IU's offensive whoas include poor shot selection, particularly when they did not get to spots to shoot, rather, they would drive to the basket out of control instead and just literally throw the ball up there.

Poor shot selection is also clear by number of players attempting 3pt shots during games. When a defense clearly gives away a 3 attempt to Smith, that doesn't mean he should shoot it, and it does mean he should sit down for having shot it.

Romeo and Anderson could have really benefitted from curl cuts/screens. There were none.

Morgan probably would have benefitted offensively from a healthy Davis, and that didn't happen.

Fitzner was ineffective because not because he can't shoot, but because he was never open and didn't know what else to do. Getting him open kick outs didn't work all season. The only time he was effectively was against Marquettes poor defense, and when he could catch at the high post against zone defenses.

In fact, for much of the season, I felt Indiana's zone attack was pretty good. Pretty smart. But against man, IU couldn't operate when Morgan was double-teamed, except for when Davis was in and healthy.

Ultimately, shooting does solve problems. But so does better shots. Miller did not do a good job of getting better looks for his players, particularly the young guards, and it cost them.

Next year is something all-together different but I can assure you that losing 2 x 15ppg players without returning 10ppg+ is not a good sign. Last time it happened, I think was 13 to 14, and before that 08 to 09, both times resulting in bad seasons.

IU has to get help in the front court. They will be too small again, and won't have defenses focusing on Romeo to help free other guards. Shooting problems could be much worse in that scenario.

 

[ufo33]

I don't know how to judge or rank those advanced stats but I don't need to look further than Smith's stats of: 22% 3pt shooting, 51% free throws, 28 assists and 65 turnovers. He started 32 games and averaged 24.5 minutes. Be all that what it may -- the problem was we didn't have anybody better

Perea shot a higher FT % than Smith. Maybe Smith should try the underhand FT shot?

 

[go_iu]

Obviously overall team dysfunction is the best answer, but from a #s viewpoint, I think the single biggest problem was Justin Smith's play.

I would encourage you guys to take a look at a site called sports-reference.com, college basketball section (SR CBB). Just type in a guys name and "stats" on google and you can pull it up.
I don't need stats to tell me how bad Fitzner sucked, what is telling is he was playing a lot against OSU and made a horrendous dipshit play that basically lost us the game and he hasn't been seen since

If you focus on just a few #s I think they are instructive:

eFG%.....50.8 (effective FG%, a # that takes into consideration 2 pt%, 3pt%, and FT%)--whole yr
PER........12.3 (Player Efficiency Ranking)--whole yr
ORtg.......91.5 (a ranking of offensive efficiency.....100 looks to be average...the higher the better)
DRtg.......107.00 (a ranking of DE....100 looks to be average...the lower the better)

Of the guys who played major minutes, JS's combination of offensive and defensive inefficiency really stand out. The DE # is really painful, given that JD was billed as a "defensive stopper".

One other thing I want to point out that really stands out......just how horrible Fitzner was. He played a total of 160 minutes in league play, equal to 4 complete games. His ORtg & DRtg #s for league play were 74.8 and 108.2, respectively. The 108.2 # is really, really bad for a tall defender, as their DE #s tend to be lower than guards on average. And the 74.8 OE # is off the charts bad....maybe the worst # for any BT player that played legit minutes in conference play. As I recall, D. Anderson's # was 69 something, worse but he played so little.....

EDIT--The OR & DR #s I cited are for league play only---look under the table "Conference Play Per 100 Possessions, near the bottom of the page)

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Obviously overall team dysfunction is the best answer, but from a #s viewpoint, I think the single biggest problem was Justin Smith's play.

I would encourage you guys to take a look at a site called sports-reference.com, college basketball section (SR CBB). Just type in a guys name and "stats" on google and you can pull it up.

If you focus on just a few #s I think they are instructive:

eFG%.....50.8 (effective FG%, a # that takes into consideration 2 pt%, 3pt%, and FT%)--whole yr
PER........12.3 (Player Efficiency Ranking)--whole yr
ORtg.......91.5 (a ranking of offensive efficiency.....100 looks to be average...the higher the better)
DRtg.......107.00 (a ranking of DE....100 looks to be average...the lower the better)

Of the guys who played major minutes, JS's combination of offensive and defensive inefficiency really stand out. The DE # is really painful, given that JD was billed as a "defensive stopper".

One other thing I want to point out that really stands out......just how horrible Fitzner was. He played a total of 160 minutes in league play, equal to 4 complete games. His ORtg & DRtg #s for league play were 74.8 and 108.2, respectively. The 108.2 # is really, really bad for a tall defender, as their DE #s tend to be lower than guards on average. And the 74.8 OE # is off the charts bad....maybe the worst # for any BT player that played legit minutes in conference play. As I recall, D. Anderson's # was 69 something, worse but he played so little.....

EDIT--The OR & DR #s I cited are for league play only---look under the table "Conference Play Per 100 Possessions, near the bottom of the page)

Good stuff, thanks for the effort. One of the reasons JS played this many min is because of injuries. I have said that the two aspects that defined the season were injuries in the inability to shoot from mid range out.

Surely team chemistry must have played a role and I completely agree with Seth Greenberg that having one OAD in Rimeo cause an imbalance of mixed agendas. Romeo is a fantastic kid, but he was understandably on a different page, the OAD strategy works best (from a w and l standpoint not program standpoint) when you have three or more.

 

[Hoosier_Phenom]

Obviously overall team dysfunction is the best answer, but from a #s viewpoint, I think the single biggest problem was Justin Smith's play.

I would encourage you guys to take a look at a site called sports-reference.com, college basketball section (SR CBB). Just type in a guys name and "stats" on google and you can pull it up.

If you focus on just a few #s I think they are instructive:

eFG%.....50.8 (effective FG%, a # that takes into consideration 2 pt%, 3pt%, and FT%)--whole yr
PER........12.3 (Player Efficiency Ranking)--whole yr
ORtg.......91.5 (a ranking of offensive efficiency.....100 looks to be average...the higher the better)
DRtg.......107.00 (a ranking of DE....100 looks to be average...the lower the better)

Of the guys who played major minutes, JS's combination of offensive and defensive inefficiency really stand out. The DE # is really painful, given that JD was billed as a "defensive stopper".

One other thing I want to point out that really stands out......just how horrible Fitzner was. He played a total of 160 minutes in league play, equal to 4 complete games. His ORtg & DRtg #s for league play were 74.8 and 108.2, respectively. The 108.2 # is really, really bad for a tall defender, as their DE #s tend to be lower than guards on average. And the 74.8 OE # is off the charts bad....maybe the worst # for any BT player that played legit minutes in conference play. As I recall, D. Anderson's # was 69 something, worse but he played so little.....

EDIT--The OR & DR #s I cited are for league play only---look under the table "Conference Play Per 100 Possessions, near the bottom of the page)

You are an idiot and those mushrooms must be some good shit.

 

[Hoosier_Phenom]

Obviously overall team dysfunction is the best answer, but from a #s viewpoint, I think the single biggest problem was Justin Smith's play.

I would encourage you guys to take a look at a site called sports-reference.com, college basketball section (SR CBB). Just type in a guys name and "stats" on google and you can pull it up.

If you focus on just a few #s I think they are instructive:

eFG%.....50.8 (effective FG%, a # that takes into consideration 2 pt%, 3pt%, and FT%)--whole yr
PER........12.3 (Player Efficiency Ranking)--whole yr
ORtg.......91.5 (a ranking of offensive efficiency.....100 looks to be average...the higher the better)
DRtg.......107.00 (a ranking of DE....100 looks to be average...the lower the better)

Of the guys who played major minutes, JS's combination of offensive and defensive inefficiency really stand out. The DE # is really painful, given that JD was billed as a "defensive stopper".

One other thing I want to point out that really stands out......just how horrible Fitzner was. He played a total of 160 minutes in league play, equal to 4 complete games. His ORtg & DRtg #s for league play were 74.8 and 108.2, respectively. The 108.2 # is really, really bad for a tall defender, as their DE #s tend to be lower than guards on average. And the 74.8 OE # is off the charts bad....maybe the worst # for any BT player that played legit minutes in conference play. As I recall, D. Anderson's # was 69 something, worse but he played so little.....

EDIT--The OR & DR #s I cited are for league play only---look under the table "Conference Play Per 100 Possessions, near the bottom of the page)

Yeah because Smith was the reason that Morgan didn't show up for games all the time or got into foul trouble like in the Arkansas game. Smith was the reason Durham missed all those wide open three's and Smith is the reason our guards got beat off the dribble so much that he had to come over to help. Smith is the reason Fitzner who was suppose to be a great shooter couldn't score for weeks. Hell lets just blame Smith for the way the world is. I also want to blame Smith for my company not giving raises. Can I blame Smith for all the idiot crybaby posters on here. I'm not saying Smith wasn't at fault for some of the season but don't say he was the only reason we had a horrible season.

 

[Crossblock]

The usual suspects contributed to the lousy year. Injuries, lack of team chemistry, and poor outside shooting to name three. The one that nobody seems to talk about is the design of the offense. It's as if they designed an offense to take advantage of Romeo's supposed abilities, handed him the keys to the Mercedes, and discovered that he would have trouble driving a dump truck. It always appeared to me that the other players on the Court couldn't predict what Romeo would do next, and couldn't get in position to receive a pass in shooting position or get in position to rebound. I don't know how many times I watched one of our outside shooters receive a pass flat footed or with feet and body twisted where they had to adjust their body position to get off a shot. That isn't conducive to a high shooting percentage.

 

[kkott]

Obviously overall team dysfunction is the best answer, but from a #s viewpoint, I think the single biggest problem was Justin Smith's play.

I would encourage you guys to take a look at a site called sports-reference.com, college basketball section (SR CBB). Just type in a guys name and "stats" on google and you can pull it up.

If you focus on just a few #s I think they are instructive:

eFG%.....50.8 (effective FG%, a # that takes into consideration 2 pt%, 3pt%, and FT%)--whole yr
PER........12.3 (Player Efficiency Ranking)--whole yr
ORtg.......91.5 (a ranking of offensive efficiency.....100 looks to be average...the higher the better)
DRtg.......107.00 (a ranking of DE....100 looks to be average...the lower the better)

Of the guys who played major minutes, JS's combination of offensive and defensive inefficiency really stand out. The DE # is really painful, given that JD was billed as a "defensive stopper".

One other thing I want to point out that really stands out......just how horrible Fitzner was. He played a total of 160 minutes in league play, equal to 4 complete games. His ORtg & DRtg #s for league play were 74.8 and 108.2, respectively. The 108.2 # is really, really bad for a tall defender, as their DE #s tend to be lower than guards on average. And the 74.8 OE # is off the charts bad....maybe the worst # for any BT player that played legit minutes in conference play. As I recall, D. Anderson's # was 69 something, worse but he played so little.....

EDIT--The OR & DR #s I cited are for league play only---look under the table "Conference Play Per 100 Possessions, near the bottom of the page)

Thanks for posting. This roster had bad chemistry and I can write that off as the remainder of CTC's poor roster construction and recruit selection, but I will also say this year really made me question CAM's coaching. It was so refreshing to see Marshall yank a couple guys right at the beginning of the game for play/effort he didn't like. I can't fathom why CAM didn't do this more with Green and Smith especially, but everyone in general. Also some of the teams we put on the floor at times. I HATE JM guarding another team's 5. Thought it invited fouls and fatigue on our best player, and cost us the game outright at PU when it allowed Haarms to make the putback over him. And I forgot which loss it was now, but at the end of the game where RP inbounded to JS and he dribbled up the floor. Still can't figure why you have your best ballhandler inbound to the worst in an end of game situation. I was sure the pass was coming right back to RP, and maybe it was supposed to, but it sure didn't look that way. Anyway, I think questioning of our coaching is legit, and I hope we see improvement there in the future.

 

[Lucy01]

I can tell you why we stunk, to much work on defense! We forgot how to shoot, Archie needs to hire the best shooting coach in the Business!

 

[abraxis]

Obviously overall team dysfunction is the best answer, but from a #s viewpoint, I think the single biggest problem was Justin Smith's play.

I would encourage you guys to take a look at a site called sports-reference.com, college basketball section (SR CBB). Just type in a guys name and "stats" on google and you can pull it up.

If you focus on just a few #s I think they are instructive:

eFG%.....50.8 (effective FG%, a # that takes into consideration 2 pt%, 3pt%, and FT%)--whole yr
PER........12.3 (Player Efficiency Ranking)--whole yr
ORtg.......91.5 (a ranking of offensive efficiency.....100 looks to be average...the higher the better)
DRtg.......107.00 (a ranking of DE....100 looks to be average...the lower the better)

Of the guys who played major minutes, JS's combination of offensive and defensive inefficiency really stand out. The DE # is really painful, given that JD was billed as a "defensive stopper".

One other thing I want to point out that really stands out......just how horrible Fitzner was. He played a total of 160 minutes in league play, equal to 4 complete games. His ORtg & DRtg #s for league play were 74.8 and 108.2, respectively. The 108.2 # is really, really bad for a tall defender, as their DE #s tend to be lower than guards on average. And the 74.8 OE # is off the charts bad....maybe the worst # for any BT player that played legit minutes in conference play. As I recall, D. Anderson's # was 69 something, worse but he played so little.....

EDIT--The OR & DR #s I cited are for league play only---look under the table "Conference Play Per 100 Possessions, near the bottom of the page)

I think it’s time we all give this kind of Fitzner talk a rest. Fault Archie, if anyone. Fitzner tried, he was just in over his head in the brutal Big Ten. Fitzner’s problems on the court were minuscule in the grand scheme of IU’s problems this season.

 

[ReadHall84]

Injuries, Fitzner, Romeo's passiveness - all contributed to a lackluster season. The slow starts to games, the standing around - who gets the blame for that? I'd say the head coach.

 

[coachv jr]

I can tell you why we stunk, to much work on defense! We forgot how to shoot, Archie needs to hire the best shooting coach in the Business!

and i'm available!

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Thanks for posting. This roster had bad chemistry and I can write that off as the remainder of CTC's poor roster construction and recruit selection, but I will also say this year really made me question CAM's coaching. It was so refreshing to see Marshall yank a couple guys right at the beginning of the game for play/effort he didn't like. I can't fathom why CAM didn't do this more with Green and Smith especially, but everyone in general. Also some of the teams we put on the floor at times. I HATE JM guarding another team's 5. Thought it invited fouls and fatigue on our best player, and cost us the game outright at PU when it allowed Haarms to make the putback over him. And I forgot which loss it was now, but at the end of the game where RP inbounded to JS and he dribbled up the floor. Still can't figure why you have your best ballhandler inbound to the worst in an end of game situation. I was sure the pass was coming right back to RP, and maybe it was supposed to, but it sure didn't look that way. Anyway, I think questioning of our coaching is legit, and I hope we see improvement there in the future.

Good points.......2 other aspects of this coaching staff I question.....1. Shooting form....As someone mentioned, hiring a shot doctor would be a really good idea. There are probably 200 of them among the HS coaches in this state that would do it for $30000 a year.........2. Development of mid-range games....RL, RP & Smith had no pull up/tear-drop ability whatsoever. Shot blockers by the end of the season knew they could hang out at the basket on their drives without worrying about a pull-up or a drop-off. DG loves the tear-drop attempt, but he was so bad at it that we all prayed he'd stop shooting it.....and I think he pretty much did by the end of the season.

I would add a third...inability to stop a designated 3 point shooter, but I think that was mostly from lack of effort and/or stupidity, as they covered the 3s pretty well when they were actually engaged in a game.

 

[Bligedy]

Obviously overall team dysfunction is the best answer, but from a #s viewpoint, I think the single biggest problem was Justin Smith's play.

I would encourage you guys to take a look at a site called sports-reference.com, college basketball section (SR CBB). Just type in a guys name and "stats" on google and you can pull it up.

If you focus on just a few #s I think they are instructive:

eFG%.....50.8 (effective FG%, a # that takes into consideration 2 pt%, 3pt%, and FT%)--whole yr
PER........12.3 (Player Efficiency Ranking)--whole yr
ORtg.......91.5 (a ranking of offensive efficiency.....100 looks to be average...the higher the better)
DRtg.......107.00 (a ranking of DE....100 looks to be average...the lower the better)

Of the guys who played major minutes, JS's combination of offensive and defensive inefficiency really stand out. The DE # is really painful, given that JD was billed as a "defensive stopper".

One other thing I want to point out that really stands out......just how horrible Fitzner was. He played a total of 160 minutes in league play, equal to 4 complete games. His ORtg & DRtg #s for league play were 74.8 and 108.2, respectively. The 108.2 # is really, really bad for a tall defender, as their DE #s tend to be lower than guards on average. And the 74.8 OE # is off the charts bad....maybe the worst # for any BT player that played legit minutes in conference play. As I recall, D. Anderson's # was 69 something, worse but he played so little.....

EDIT--The OR & DR #s I cited are for league play only---look under the table "Conference Play Per 100 Possessions, near the bottom of the page)

IU just had too much of the roster who couldn't contribute. That needs to improve or those guys need to move on.

IU couldn't shoot.

The players made the same mistakes all year. They made the same dumb passes. They took the same stupid shots. There wasn't much improvement. I put that on coaching.

The Offense is garbage. IU is easy to guard. There wasn't much imagination. There wasn't enough movement inside of the 3 point line. THis is also coaching.

Lots of problems. Some on the floor and some on the bench.
;

 

[mushroomgod_1]

I think it’s time we all give this kind of Fitzner talk a rest. Fault Archie, if anyone. Fitzner tried, he was just in over his head in the brutal Big Ten. Fitzner’s problems on the court were minuscule in the grand scheme of IU’s problems this season.

I disagree. He played the equivalent of 4 complete games in BT play. I think he missed a lot of important shots. I don't fault his effort, or Archie giving him a 'ship. Just doing the postmortem on the season.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

IU just had too much of the roster who couldn't contribute. That needs to improve or those guys need to move on.

IU couldn't shoot.

The players made the same mistakes all year. They made the same dumb passes. They took the same stupid shots. There wasn't much improvement. I put that on coaching.

The Offense is garbage. IU is easy to guard. There wasn't much imagination. There wasn't enough movement inside of the 3 point line. THis is also coaching.

Lots of problems. Some on the floor and some on the bench.
;

If you want to get sick, compare the productivity of Purdue's #s4-8 players v. IU's. They're a tremendous example of role players doing their thing.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Good thread. I like it

 

[Mean Mr Mustard]

Obviously overall team dysfunction is the best answer, but from a #s viewpoint, I think the single biggest problem was Justin Smith's play.

I would encourage you guys to take a look at a site called sports-reference.com, college basketball section (SR CBB). Just type in a guys name and "stats" on google and you can pull it up.

If you focus on just a few #s I think they are instructive:

eFG%.....50.8 (effective FG%, a # that takes into consideration 2 pt%, 3pt%, and FT%)--whole yr
PER........12.3 (Player Efficiency Ranking)--whole yr
ORtg.......91.5 (a ranking of offensive efficiency.....100 looks to be average...the higher the better)
DRtg.......107.00 (a ranking of DE....100 looks to be average...the lower the better)

Of the guys who played major minutes, JS's combination of offensive and defensive inefficiency really stand out. The DE # is really painful, given that JD was billed as a "defensive stopper".

One other thing I want to point out that really stands out......just how horrible Fitzner was. He played a total of 160 minutes in league play, equal to 4 complete games. His ORtg & DRtg #s for league play were 74.8 and 108.2, respectively. The 108.2 # is really, really bad for a tall defender, as their DE #s tend to be lower than guards on average. And the 74.8 OE # is off the charts bad....maybe the worst # for any BT player that played legit minutes in conference play. As I recall, D. Anderson's # was 69 something, worse but he played so little.....

EDIT--The OR & DR #s I cited are for league play only---look under the table "Conference Play Per 100 Possessions, near the bottom of the page)

Justin is a good player though...