Why is Trump doing this?

[ribbont]

Let me bring things into focus for you. Tariffs are inflationary and lead to higher unemployment and lower growth. If this is all a negotiating ploy on Trump’s part, and these tariffs are going to disappear or be significantly tamped down in the near future, we’ll see what happens. But if his global trade war is a long-term strategy, Trump is driving the economy off the cliff, and that’s hardly hyperbole.

If you are going to ONLY look at tariffs, then I can agree with you. But the economy is much more that just tariffs. The Trump team's argument is that the reduction of govt spending, increased energy output, deregulation, and tax cuts will create wage growth to offset any inflation tariffs will create.

I stated that I am not sure I buy into that logic, but I don't buy into the idea we are going off a cliff. That is a hyperbolic statement, IMO.

 

[Cortez88]

Yes, shouldn't have said a deficit, but a debt ceiling. That's my bad.

That's still not balancing the budget.

This is what I’ve read. Maybe it’s semantics?

The Senate’s proposed concurrent Fiscal Year (FY) 2025 budget resolution would allow policymakers to add $5.8 trillion to primary deficits through 2034 via a reconciliation package. Such a bill would be historically unprecedented in its fiscal irresponsibility, adding several times more debt than any reconciliation package or other recent piece of legislation.

Senate Budget Could Enable Unprecedented Deficit Increase | Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget

2025-04-04-The Senate’s proposed concurrent Fiscal Year (FY) 2025 budget resolution would allow policymakers to

www.crfb.org

 

[ribbont]

Yes, shouldn't have said a deficit, but a debt ceiling. That's my bad.

That's still not balancing the budget.

I never said Trump said balancing the budget. He probably did as he talks sh!t all the time. But realistically, nobody is talking about balancing the budget from the Trump team. It's about cutting spending, deficit reduction.

 

[Harry Hondo]

He is doing it because he knows it will infuriate you. He wants to make sure you continue to come to the water cooler( your safe space) daily and tell us all how horrible he is and how the end of the world is near. I mean what would you do without him you would have nothing to complain about at all at least in theory. I think you would be rather bored without him.

He is doing just what he said he was going to do back in the summer and yet you uber liberals act shocked like this came out of left field.

And this is exactly why us uber liberals never believed he knew what the fvck he was doing. The man is completely incompetent and it’s going to take a deep recession or depression for you idiots to ever see reality.

Of course, as the market declines the billionaires are buying up all the cheap stock, so when the liberals return and build our economy back, just like they did when W tanked it 20 years ago, the billionaires will be that much wealthier. As one economist put it, this the opposite of Robin Hood, this is like stealing from the poor and giving it to the rich. After all, this is what conmen do.

 

[outside shooter]

... reduction of govt spending, increased energy output, deregulation, and tax cuts...

Every dollar of reduced government spending seems to be earmarked for diversion to the most wealthy Americans through tax cuts and big beautiful free cheese checks signed by DJT. Energy output reached all-time highs under the previous administration.

DJT's policies are a disaster and will do so much damage to our nation and the world that our great grandkids will still be trying to recover, and wondering why their ancestors were so incredibly stupid.

 

[Bowlmania]

it’s going to take a deep recession or depression for you idiots to ever see reality.

Even that won’t do it. They’ll just parrot something stupid like, “It’s for the long-term good.”

 

[mcmurtry66]

I agree he’s doing what he’s always talked about doing. Honestly, I think that’s part of the issue most people who never voted for him had to begin with.

I would be down for trying this in a more thoughtful calculated way but not now. Not with prices this high. This is just an awful move

 

[snarlcakes]

Again, as I stated in my first response, I never said I agreed with Trump's policy, just I understand why they are going this direction because I have read, listened, and researched it over the past year. They think it will work out in the long run. I am not so sure. But I do know what we have done over the past 25+ years isn't working either.

I'm starting to think this might be DOD approved. Covid and the Russia war has made it clear we need to make more shit in the U.S.

 

[outside shooter]

Covid and the Russia war has made it clear we need to make more shit in the U.S.

Reagan explained quite well why this will have the opposite effect

 

[snarlcakes]

Reagan explained quite well why this will have the opposite effect

Reagan explained what? You can't run endless trade deficits. At some point you sell off all your stuff and they stop buying your debt. And what do you do during a war? Ask China or Russia for some bullets so we can fight them? Did China ship us masks right away during Covid or keep it for their own people? You can't keep shipping the world pieces of paper forever.

 

[snarlcakes]

I'm starting to think this might be DOD approved. Covid and the Russia war has made it clear we need to make more shit in the U.S.

Also, @ribbont Gold has been flashing a really big signal something is happening. Bitcoin has also held up extremely well the past two months.

 

[GooglyMooglyWooglyBoogly]

Reagan explained what? You can't run endless trade deficits. At some point you sell off all your stuff and they stop buying your debt. And what do you do during a war? Ask China or Russia for some bullets so we can fight them? Did China ship us masks right away during Covid or keep it for their own people? You can keep shipping the world pieces of paper forever.

I don’t think anyone is objecting to protecting critical industries.

At the macro level, the only way to do what you’re asking is to depress domestic consumption. We have the biggest consumer engine in history. We buy a lot of shit. That’s the reason behind trade imbalances. We’ll never be able to onshore enough to even them out.

I’ve seen republicans out there saying. You don’t need your iPhone, flat screen, Xbox. Same argument liberals make wrt climate change.

It’s evil.

 

[Bill4411]

@Bill4411 your posting history belies your emoji. Just shows zero self awareness

Well put me on ignore then that’s why it is available.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Well put me on ignore then that’s why it is available.

no i'd rather respond to your posts

 

[Bill4411]

no i'd rather respond to your posts

I love you too! 🥰

 

[The Original Happy Goat]

Unless you think every other country will capitulate. That seems to be the best being made.

Of course, a big problem with that is the way they implemented these tariffs, being based on trade deficits instead of on actual tariffs imposed by other countries, means that it's not possible in a lot of cases for the other country to capitulate, because there's nothing there for them to give us. We smacked the EU with a 20% tariff, but the average actual tariff in Europe on US goods is about 5%. There's not much for them to give up. Poor developing countries naturally have a trade surplus with us because they can't afford to buy much from us. There's nothing they can do about that.

All this will do is slow down economies all over the world, and make Americans pay more for goods they buy. And there's very little anyone can do about it.

 

[snarlcakes]

I don’t think anyone is objecting to protecting critical industries.

At the macro level, the only way to do what you’re asking is to depress domestic consumption. We have the biggest consumer engine in history. We buy a lot of shit. That’s the reason behind trade imbalances. We’ll never be able to onshore enough to even them out.

I’ve seen republicans out there saying. You don’t need your iPhone, flat screen, Xbox. Same argument liberals make wrt climate change.

It’s evil.

They're not going to burn it all down. They're changing the status quo because it's not sustainable. It's been two months Favre. We will be fine.

 

[snarlcakes]

I don’t think anyone is objecting to protecting critical industries.

At the macro level, the only way to do what you’re asking is to depress domestic consumption. We have the biggest consumer engine in history. We buy a lot of shit. That’s the reason behind trade imbalances. We’ll never be able to onshore enough to even them out.

I’ve seen republicans out there saying. You don’t need your iPhone, flat screen, Xbox. Same argument liberals make wrt climate change.

It’s evil.

Also, we don't have a consumption society. 10-20% of our society consumes. The rest, not so much. That's the evil part by the way.

 

[GooglyMooglyWooglyBoogly]

They're not going to burn it all down. They're changing the status quo because it's not sustainable. It's been two months Favre. We will be fine.

I’m remaining somewhat open minded but the stated goals of the tariffs are all over the map. Increased tax revenue, reshoring, dropping the ten year, kicking inflation, gamesmanship to get other countries to lower theirs.

These things are somewhat mutually exclusive. The messaging doesn’t make sense.

And the mechanism used for calculating the reciprocal tariffs was absolutely galing.

 

[bailey777]

How manic panic sellers today? Who sold out? Not me.

 

[GooglyMooglyWooglyBoogly]

Also, we don't have a consumption society. 10-20% of our society consumes. The rest, not so much. That's the evil part by the way.

That’s not true. The average middle class or even lower middle class American consumes far more than the average Euro or Chinese or Indian.

 

[snarlcakes]

That’s not true. The average middle class or even lower middle class American consumes far more than the average Euro or Chinese or Indian.

lol..we don't live in China or Europe or India or Africa. We live in the U.S.

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

No, it's like squeezing out a massive dump, a real McMurt-level pile, on main street and touting that eventually it will find its way to fertilize something.

Get off the board and go for a walk orange man. You need it. Badly. Not your tricycle. It’s not working.

You two fellas oughta get married.

 

[GooglyMooglyWooglyBoogly]

lol..we don't live in China or Europe or India or Africa. We live in the U.S.

But the point remains Americans across all incomes consume massively as compared to the rest of the world.

Hence my point we are the greatest consumer engine in the history of the world.

 

[Bowlmania]

Reagan explained quite well why this will have the opposite effect

Reagan also once said, “I ask you not simply to trust me, but to trust your values - - our values - - and to hold me responsible for living up to them.”

Trump famously said, “I alone can fix it.”

He should now be saying, “I alone can fvck it up,” because that’s what he’s doing.

Trump inherited a solid economy, with inflation approaching the Fed’s target of 2%, record corporate profits and stock prices, and strong growth. He is now single-handedly roiling the domestic and global markets and driving us toward a recession. Just an incredibly stupid, unforced error.

Powell sees tariffs raising inflation and says Fed will wait before further rate moves

Powell said the Fed faces a "highly uncertain outlook" because of the new reciprocal levies the president announced Wednesday

www.cnbc.com

 

[snarlcakes]

I’m remaining somewhat open minded but the stated goals of the tariffs are all over the map. Increased tax revenue, reshoring, dropping the ten year, kicking inflation, gamesmanship to get other countries to lower theirs.

These things are somewhat mutually exclusive. The messaging doesn’t make sense.

And the mechanism used for calculating the reciprocal tariffs was absolutely galling.

Yeah, it's chaotic. I think that's the point. To be fair, they literally have said it's going to be rocky for 6-12 months. I personally thought they were bluffing and I was wrong. They actually were telling the truth, which means they're telling the truth on tax cuts and it ending in the next 3-6 months.

 

[GooglyMooglyWooglyBoogly]

Yeah, it's chaotic. I think that's the point. To be fair, they literally have said it's going to be rocky for 6-12 months. I personally thought they were bluffing and I was wrong. They actually were telling the truth, which means they're telling the truth on tax cuts and it ending in the next 3-6 months.

Are they even proposing deeper tax cuts? I thought in large part it was about codifying the first term Trump cuts in perpetuity.

I don’t see that as a tax cut as much as not raising taxes.

 

[snarlcakes]

But the point remains Americans across all incomes consume massively as compared to the rest of the world.

Hence my point we are the greatest consumer engine in the history of the world.

The people voting don't give a shit that they consume more than some poor Chinese or Indian dude. That's the mentality Bush types GOPers have had for a couple of decades, which led to them losing. You can't have 10% of your own population controlling all the capital in a Democracy. It causes all sorts of societal issues. Once again, the alternative is AOC types and socialist high taxes if they don't fix it.

 

[WhyisIUBBcursed]

You Trump dudes still defending this shit? He is absolutely doing what he said he would do. But when he’s campaigning the defenders always say aw shucks. Trump is busy using hyperbole because of his personality. He actually told us he was going to fvck the economy and I’ll be damn he’s pulling it off

 

[snarlcakes]

Are they even proposing deeper tax cuts? I thought in large part it was about codifying the first term Trump cuts in perpetuity.

I don’t see that as a tax cut as much as not raising taxes.

I agree, I don't consider extending them are tax cuts. They have floated out several different additional cuts. Trump 2.0 has been much more aggressive, so I'm hoping that continues with tax cuts.

Edit: They're trying to roll them out by Memorial Day. At some point Trump needs to reverse course, so hopefully it's by the end of May. If he doesn't a recession becomes extreme likely and they'll most likely get smashed at mid terms. Then you gain nothing from all of this besides shits and giggles.

 

[snarlcakes]

I would be down for trying this in a more thoughtful calculated way but not now. Not with prices this high. This is just an awful move

If he doesn't back down prices will come down eventually and it won't be fun.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

But the point remains Americans across all incomes consume massively as compared to the rest of the world.

Hence my point we are the greatest consumer engine in the history of the world.

For decades it seems like our economic policy was based upon more and more mass consumption based on belief that consumer spending is good. We have easy credit and low interest to buttress that. We have statistics that measure consumer confidence in different ways and the policy makers do what they can to bolster consumer confidence.

Simultaneously politicians gripe about offshoring good jobs while constantly blaming the other side for lack of good paying jobs. The economy is developing into those who can afford crap and those who can only deliver it or serve it while cleaning and gardening for us. Believing that low priced consumer goods is the most important economic policy, and that the American Dream is built on cheap crap, nobody has done anything really important to change course. Arguably, with our massive regulatory apparatus that controls everything to feeding hogs to buying a car, and more, we have discouraged changes. The result is out of control government, out of control government spending, out of control trade deficits and out of control government debt. Importantly , we have out of control consumer debt, because after all, consumer spending is what the smart people believe is the most important thing.

I don’t know if Trump’s DOGE, tariffs, and tax reforms will work in the long term or not. Nether do the democrats or experts who have a keyboard and internet connection. I am pretty sure that the status quo will ruin us. Trump is the only president who has said enough of this shit; we must change course. We must change government operations. We must produce as well as consume. Both will encourage the American Dream.

 

[iuwclurker]

And it was insane under the last administration. You wanted us to listen to Biden and Harris. You’re really not one to be able to comment. Just another hickory type shill

YOU were repudiated. You’re garbage at every level last administration . Remember that

People like you. Hondo. Hickory. Shitter, Dbm Bailey etc really are just noise. Of no value

Your wife swap your toilet with your cereal bowl this morning?

Can I help?

 

[mattndallas]

 

[GooglyMooglyWooglyBoogly]

The people voting don't give a shit that they consume more than some poor Chinese or Indian dude. That's the mentality Bush types GOPers have had for a couple of decades, which led to them losing. You can't have 10% of your own population controlling all the capital in a Democracy. It causes all sorts of societal issues. Once again, the alternative is AOC types and socialist high taxes if they don't fix it.

I haven’t seen a clear path to more even capital distribution and I’m not even sure that’s a good goal.

I’ve long maintained the idea of the wealth gap being problematic is largely a fallacy.

For decades it seems like our economic policy was based upon more and more mass consumption based on belief that consumer spending is good. We have easy credit and low interest to buttress that. We have statistics that measure consumer confidence in different ways and the policy makers do what they can to bolster consumer confidence.

Simultaneously politicians gripe about offshoring good jobs while constantly blaming the other side for lack of good paying jobs. The economy is developing into those who can afford crap and those who can only deliver it or serve it while cleaning and gardening for us. Believing that low priced consumer goods is the most important economic policy, and that the American Dream is built on cheap crap, nobody has done anything really important to change course.

Again, the diminishing of consumerism is silly. The poorest Americans can afford a used car, cell phones, A/C and heat, affordable clothing.

It’s not “cheap crap”, those things being affordable are a massive driver of quality of life.

 

[iuwclurker]

 

[mattndallas]

View embedded media

No quoting Nazi's, you Nazi...

 

[iuwclurker]

 

[Willdog7]

trump wants to give Jan 6 protesters a white nationalist group reparations, what a racist

 

[CO. Hoosier]

I haven’t seen a clear path to more even capital distribution and I’m not even sure that’s a good goal.

I’ve long maintained the idea of the wealth gap being problematic is largely a fallacy.

Again, the diminishing of consumerism is silly. The poorest Americans can afford a used car, cell phones, A/C and heat, affordable clothing.

It’s not “cheap crap”, those things being affordable is a massive driver of quality of life.

Consumer debt is now $18+ Trillion and climbing. A large portion of that went straight to improving the lives of overseas workers and owners who make that crap. That’s crazy and it doesn’t include the consumer purchases unrelated to debt. Prices in and of them selves are only half the analysis, the other half is wages and income which our spending supports for the overseas interests more than it should.

Delinquencies on cars and credit cards are rising. This is consumerism run amok.