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Why Indy has a good chance to land Amazon's HQ2

I don't know. If I had to move from Seattle to Indianapolis I wouldn't be all too happy. They have no real "international" airport, so they would have to connect to any real international destination. Not much in terms of culture. I just see nothing appealing at all about Indianapolis. I wouldn't start a company there. BORING!

Also, if you live in a place where you don't have to drive everywhere, traffic doesn't matter. You take the train.

Quix0te said:
A red city is probably looking pretty good to Jeff Bezos right now....

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/amazon-puts-seattle-expansion-pause-132100423.html

And of the 20 cities on Amazon's list, only three don't have hellish rush hour traffic: Columbus OH, Indy and Raleigh NC. In the following link, click on "SEE YOUR CITY RANKING".

http://inrix.com/scorecard/
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DrHoops said:
Also, if you live in a place where you don't have to drive everywhere, traffic doesn't matter. You take the train.
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Well, you might say "take the train" but per the INREX link above, Seattle has the ninth worst rush hour traffic in the nation so obviously many people do not take the train. Seattle also ranks No. 3 in homeless and that is a huge quality of life issue.
 
Quix0te said:
Well, you might say "take the train" but per the INREX link above, Seattle has the ninth worst rush hour traffic in the nation so obviously many people do not take the train. Seattle also ranks No. 3 in homeless and that is a huge quality of life issue.
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My guess is if the numbers of employees expected is accurate, Indianapolis which has absolutely no mass transit (IndyGo is probably worse than nothing because with nothing someone might try to build a working system) would suddenly crash deep into "hellish rush hour traffic". I would like Indy to get it, but I know what Gencon does to downtown traffic every year and that's with most of the 50,000 living in the downtown hotels and not driving.
 
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Marvin the Martian said:
My guess is if the numbers of employees expected is accurate, Indianapolis which has absolutely no mass transit (IndyGo is probably worse than nothing because with nothing someone might try to build a working system) would suddenly crash deep into "hellish rush hour traffic". I would like Indy to get it, but I know what Gencon does to downtown traffic every year and that's with most of the 50,000 living in the downtown hotels and not driving.
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While that may be true, what's going to happen to a city that already has some of the worst congestion in the world, e.g. NYC, Wash DC, Atlanta, if you plop Amazon's HQ2 into it? Those cities already have mass transit.
 
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DrHoops said:
I don't know. If I had to move from Seattle to Indianapolis I wouldn't be all too happy. They have no real "international" airport, so they would have to connect to any real international destination. Not much in terms of culture. I just see nothing appealing at all about Indianapolis. I wouldn't start a company there. BORING!

Also, if you live in a place where you don't have to drive everywhere, traffic doesn't matter. You take the train.
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FWIW, Indy is adding a non stop flight to Paris 3-7 days/week (varying by season) this month. I know that means nothing to a someone like you, but others may care.
 
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Marvin the Martian said:
My guess is if the numbers of employees expected is accurate, Indianapolis which has absolutely no mass transit (IndyGo is probably worse than nothing because with nothing someone might try to build a working system) would suddenly crash deep into "hellish rush hour traffic". I would like Indy to get it, but I know what Gencon does to downtown traffic every year and that's with most of the 50,000 living in the downtown hotels and not driving.
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The mass transit (BRT) system is literally starting construction within the coming weeks. It will likely take 15+ years to build out the entire system, but the plan and a significant portion of the funding mechanism is already locked in place.

And the standard Indy Go bus service has been greatly expanded in last few months as part of the entire transit plan.

HQ2 wouldn't be downtown, but likely at the old GM stamping plant across the river from downtown. Traffic in Indy would not even be considered traffic at most of the cities on the list.
 
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IUCrazy2 said:
I will be surprised if it does not end up in the D.C. corridor.
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Per the NYT report from this week....they seem most worried about housing costs and traffic. Don't see how DC squares up well with either of those.
 
I would suspect Austin. It gives them a presence in a state with lots of representatives and has a lot more "it" to younger professionals than an Indy.

The local paper had a story that the first question I international students ask now is "are you in a red state or a blue state". Assuming standard foreign IT hiring for a corp, it may be Austin and Indy are both out of the race.
 
Marvin the Martian said:
I would suspect Austin. It gives them a presence in a state with lots of representatives and has a lot more "it" to younger professionals than an Indy.

The local paper had a story that the first question I international students ask now is "are you in a red state or a blue state". Assuming standard foreign IT hiring for a corp, it may be Austin and Indy are both out of the race.
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Actually Indy has three universities with a two-hour drive that are among the nation's top 20 with regard to international students. I bet that carries more weight with foreign students than red state blue state. Note that U of I is closer to Indy than it is to Chicago.

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-20-american-colleges-with-the-most-foreign-students-2016-11
 
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twenty02 said:
Per the NYT report from this week....they seem most worried about housing costs and traffic. Don't see how DC squares up well with either of those.
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I think Bezos would not mind being close to Congress for reasons that only a mega corporation would know....
 
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Quix0te said:
Actually Indy has three universities with a two-hour drive that are among the nation's top 20 with regard to international students. I bet that carries more weight with foreign students than red state blue state. Note that U of I is closer to Indy than it is to Chicago.

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-20-american-colleges-with-the-most-foreign-students-2016-11
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One has to explain certain things, such as Indy being a blue city in a red state. The article just said that IU's recruiters have had to come up with the answers. It just makes it a bit harder when the client has a negative stereotype walking in the door. Not impossible, just a harder.
 
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twenty02 said:
The mass transit (BRT) system is literally starting construction within the coming weeks. It will likely take 15+ years to build out the entire system, but the plan and a significant portion of the funding mechanism is already locked in place.

And the standard Indy Go bus service has been greatly expanded in last few months as part of the entire transit plan.

HQ2 wouldn't be downtown, but likely at the old GM stamping plant across the river from downtown. Traffic in Indy would not even be considered traffic at most of the cities on the list.
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Is this the Red Line bus improvement that construction is starting on? I thought light rail was still prohibited? The old GM plant may be away a bit from downtown, but the roads coming in from Carmel, Avon, Brownsburg, and Greenwood are the same. And I know traffic doesn't compare to other cities overall, but up in the Fishers area it can compare to some other cities. I don't live in Indy, but with three kids living there (one downtown, one east side, one Fishers) I visit often. Traffic in Indy varies wildly. My guess is wealthy Amazon employees will all want to be in Carmel/Fishers which can stand the extra burden least. Mooresville could easily handle extra traffic, I'm surprised it has grown far less than the other doughnut towns.
 
Marvin the Martian said:
Is this the Red Line bus improvement that construction is starting on? I thought light rail was still prohibited? The old GM plant may be away a bit from downtown, but the roads coming in from Carmel, Avon, Brownsburg, and Greenwood are the same. And I know traffic doesn't compare to other cities overall, but up in the Fishers area it can compare to some other cities. I don't live in Indy, but with three kids living there (one downtown, one east side, one Fishers) I visit often. Traffic in Indy varies wildly. My guess is wealthy Amazon employees will all want to be in Carmel/Fishers which can stand the extra burden least. Mooresville could easily handle extra traffic, I'm surprised it has grown far less than the other doughnut towns.
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Marvin the Martian said:
Is this the Red Line bus improvement that construction is starting on? I thought light rail was still prohibited? The old GM plant may be away a bit from downtown, but the roads coming in from Carmel, Avon, Brownsburg, and Greenwood are the same. And I know traffic doesn't compare to other cities overall, but up in the Fishers area it can compare to some other cities. I don't live in Indy, but with three kids living there (one downtown, one east side, one Fishers) I visit often. Traffic in Indy varies wildly. My guess is wealthy Amazon employees will all want to be in Carmel/Fishers which can stand the extra burden least. Mooresville could easily handle extra traffic, I'm surprised it has grown far less than the other doughnut towns.
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The red line is only 1 of 5 planned lines. The blue and purple lines are also scheduled for coming years.

The green line (to Fishers/Noblesville) was the only one ever debated to be possibly light rail, and that one is still some time off.

Indy-Connect_Phase-One-Map.jpg



Carmel/Westfield has no real traffic issues after all the upgrades made to 31/431 over the last several years. Fishers/I69 area is the worst in the region...and even in rush hour doesn't ever come close to approaching Boston/DC/Atlanta/Dallas/Chicago/LA traffic.
 
twenty02 said:
The red line is only 1 of 5 planned lines. The blue and purple lines are also scheduled for coming years.

The green line (to Fishers/Noblesville) was the only one ever debated to be possibly light rail, and that one is still some time off.

Indy-Connect_Phase-One-Map.jpg



Carmel/Westfield has no real traffic issues after all the upgrades made to 31/431 over the last several years. Fishers/I69 area is the worst in the region...and even in rush hour doesn't ever come close to approaching Boston/DC/Atlanta/Dallas/Chicago/LA traffic.
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Living near 37/69 in Bloomington, our traffic would blow Indianapolis away. At least by a population/traffic index. Indiana was huge into the Interurban back in the day. I know why cars killed that system but I must confess hopping rail in Bloomington and sitting back reading a book to get to downtown Indy sounds like a great way to travel. Compared to my personal record of 52 minutes from Bloomington to Martinsville due to this construction it would be perfect. I just can't figure out why light rail isn't more popular. I used it once in Denver on vacation, it is so handy not to drive.
 
Marvin the Martian said:
Living near 37/69 in Bloomington, our traffic would blow Indianapolis away. At least by a population/traffic index. Indiana was huge into the Interurban back in the day. I know why cars killed that system but I must confess hopping rail in Bloomington and sitting back reading a book to get to downtown Indy sounds like a great way to travel. Compared to my personal record of 52 minutes from Bloomington to Martinsville due to this construction it would be perfect. I just can't figure out why light rail isn't more popular. I used it once in Denver on vacation, it is so handy not to drive.
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LOL....well hopefully that I69 project will one day end.

Light rail is quite expensive to build, and doesn't really make sense for Indy (with possible exception of the Noblesville to Downtown line). BRT operates just like a rail service, anyway. Dedicated lanes, control of traffic lights, etc...
 
Marvin the Martian said:
I would suspect Austin. It gives them a presence in a state with lots of representatives and has a lot more "it" to younger professionals than an Indy.

The local paper had a story that the first question I international students ask now is "are you in a red state or a blue state". Assuming standard foreign IT hiring for a corp, it may be Austin and Indy are both out of the race.
Click to expand...

That's funny. When Amazon was strong arming states to avoid taxes, they they shutdown their small fulfillment center in Texas to show who was boss.
 
Amazon's Request for Proposals for HQ2 (link) states their requirements. I'll cherry-pick a few:

HQ2 could be, but does not have to be:  An urban or downtown campus  A similar layout to Amazon’s Seattle campus  A development-prepped site. We want to encourage states/provinces and communities to think creatively for viable real estate options.

The following is a summary of the Project’s ideal site and building requirements:

Proximity to population center 30 Miles

Proximity to International airport Within approx. 45 Minutes

Proximity to major highways and arterial roads Not more than 1-2 Miles

Close to major arterial roads to provide optimal access

Access to mass transit At site Direct access to rail, train, subway/metro, bus routes

A highly educated labor pool is critical and a strong university system is required.

Travel time to an international airport with daily direct flights to Seattle, New York, San Francisco/Bay Area, and Washington, D.C. is also an important consideration.

The Project requires a compatible cultural and community environment for its long-term success. This includes the presence and support of a diverse population, excellent institutions of higher education, local government structure and elected officials eager and willing to work with the company

Please include programs/partnerships currently available and potential creative programs with higher education institutions in the region in your response. Please also include a list of universities and community colleges with relevant degrees and the number of students graduating with those degrees over the last three years. Additionally, include information on your local/regional K-12 education programs related to computer science.

Please provide highway, airport, and related travel and logistics information for all proposed sites. Please also include transit and transportation options for commuting employees living in the region. For each proposed site in your region, identify all transit options, including bike lanes and pedestrian access to the site(s). Also, list the ranking of traffic congestion for your community and/or region during peak commuting times. (Note that in that INRIX congestion ranking that I posted above, Indy was the least congested among the 20 Amazon finalists.)

Please include information on your community with respect to daily living, recreational opportunities, diversity of housing options, availability of housing near potential sites for HQ2, and pricing, among other information. Please also include relevant crime data and cost of living data.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/G/01/Anything/test/images/usa/RFP_3._V516043504_.pdf
 
JamieDimonsBalls said:
I'd cherry pick the other way:
  • Not a major airport with limited direct flights and barely any international options
  • No mass transit access
  • Compatible culture
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Regarding airports, I imagine Indy cited some of these rankings in their response to Amazon:

http://www.jdpower.com/press-releases/jd-power-2017-north-america-airport-satisfaction-study

https://www.cntraveler.com/gallerie...irports-in-america-readers-choice-awards-2014

http://time.com/money/5176917/best-us-airports-2018/
 
Quix0te said:
Regarding limited mass transit, the lesser the traffic congestion, the less you need mass transit.

Regarding culture, I think Indy might be exactly what they're looking for:

https://www.indystar.com/story/news...eat-out-other-hamilton-county-city/413908002/
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I do think this is Indianapolis' weak spot (other than mass transit that Amazon has put in as a requirement). People who come to Indianapolis for events seem to enjoy themselves. The problem is people who never have been to Indianapolis still see it as naptown. I see this from Gencon, people who come every year love Indy. But people attending the first time wonder why it can't be held in a more exciting location. I see it when I travel to professional conferences. I've asked conference organizers if they consider Indy. Usually there is a polite no. Going to Denver, San Diego, Boston, Orlando and others are viewed as fun places, getting people to pay big money to attend a conference in those places is easy. Fortunately many of those places are not in the running, but I suspect to Joe Average the DC area sounds more exciting than Indy. LONG ago (think DOS and Windows 3.1) I worked for meeting planners based out of Indiana. Even getting Hoosiers to hold their events here was hard, getting people excited to go to Chicago (as an example) was far easier. We handled events anywhere, so that wasn't a major problem. Indy just isn't seen as a lively community, nor as a big tech community. It may be that won't matter, but I do think it will be considered.
 
Marvin the Martian said:
I do think this is Indianapolis' weak spot (other than mass transit that Amazon has put in as a requirement). People who come to Indianapolis for events seem to enjoy themselves. The problem is people who never have been to Indianapolis still see it as naptown. I see this from Gencon, people who come every year love Indy. But people attending the first time wonder why it can't be held in a more exciting location. I see it when I travel to professional conferences. I've asked conference organizers if they consider Indy. Usually there is a polite no. Going to Denver, San Diego, Boston, Orlando and others are viewed as fun places, getting people to pay big money to attend a conference in those places is easy. Fortunately many of those places are not in the running, but I suspect to Joe Average the DC area sounds more exciting than Indy. LONG ago (think DOS and Windows 3.1) I worked for meeting planners based out of Indiana. Even getting Hoosiers to hold their events here was hard, getting people excited to go to Chicago (as an example) was far easier. We handled events anywhere, so that wasn't a major problem. Indy just isn't seen as a lively community, nor as a big tech community. It may be that won't matter, but I do think it will be considered.
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Well, I don't agree that a "good conference town" equates to "good place to live". Denver, San Diego, Boston, Orlando probably offer more fun stuff on a week-long conference visit but for living somewhere, raising a family and year-long recreation, metro Indy offers good public schools, NFL, NBA, Big Ten and ND football, good hoops at all levels, some outstanding universities nearby that excel in software engineering and computer science: Butler, IU, Illinois, Rose-Hulman, Purdue and heck, let's add ND too.

I also Jeff Bezos has seen more than enough homeless low life in Seattle and doesn't need another dose of it at HQ2. They are a continuous, unending blight upon the environment. Seattle just got through sucker-punching Bezos regarding the homeless in Seattle. I don't think he will walk into a similar situation again.
 
Quix0te said:
Well, I don't agree that a "good conference town" equates to "good place to live". Denver, San Diego, Boston, Orlando probably offer more fun stuff on a week-long conference visit but for living somewhere, raising a family and year-long recreation, metro Indy offers good public schools, NFL, NBA, Big Ten and ND football, good hoops at all levels, some outstanding universities nearby that excel in software engineering and computer science: Butler, IU, Illinois, Rose-Hulman, Purdue and heck, let's add ND too.

I also Jeff Bezos has seen more than enough homeless low life in Seattle and doesn't need another dose of it at HQ2. They are a continuous, unending blight upon the environment. Seattle just got through sucker-punching Bezos regarding the homeless in Seattle. I don't think he will walk into a similar situation again.
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One still has to attract people to Indy and if the perception is a race in May then nothing, it is harder to do. I'm not disagreeing with most of your assessment, I like Indy. I am just not sure the country knows more about it than the 500. Well, for a while they knew RFRA but I assume that has passed.

The one area I will disagree a little, when I am in Indy I am almost always downtown (going tomorrow night to see the ISO for example). Indy has as much a homeless problem as anywhere. I saw Whose Live Anyway at the Murat last fall. The comedians on stage asked for words to describe Indianapolis. The first audience member (I assume a Hoosier) said opioids and the second said homeless. It seems every corner has someone sitting on the ground saying something like "God bless you" as I walk by. I guess they aren't allowed to ask for donations directly?
 
Marvin the Martian said:
I do think this is Indianapolis' weak spot (other than mass transit that Amazon has put in as a requirement). People who come to Indianapolis for events seem to enjoy themselves. The problem is people who never have been to Indianapolis still see it as naptown. I see this from Gencon, people who come every year love Indy. But people attending the first time wonder why it can't be held in a more exciting location. I see it when I travel to professional conferences. I've asked conference organizers if they consider Indy. Usually there is a polite no. Going to Denver, San Diego, Boston, Orlando and others are viewed as fun places, getting people to pay big money to attend a conference in those places is easy. Fortunately many of those places are not in the running, but I suspect to Joe Average the DC area sounds more exciting than Indy. LONG ago (think DOS and Windows 3.1) I worked for meeting planners based out of Indiana. Even getting Hoosiers to hold their events here was hard, getting people excited to go to Chicago (as an example) was far easier. We handled events anywhere, so that wasn't a major problem. Indy just isn't seen as a lively community, nor as a big tech community. It may be that won't matter, but I do think it will be considered.
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Why are you conflating conference locations with corporate HQs?

I've been offered jobs in both Chicago and DC several times / yr for over a decade. I considered it for a brief while when in my early 20s...and took some long-term assignments in DC, specifically. But I have always declined being in either place permanently....and now avoid even traveling there as much as possible. The COL and commuting issues don't come close to making up for the slightly higher salary. I would want literally double my salary to give up the quality of life you can have in Indy.

All my colleagues that did move there have generally told me they intend to return to the either places like Indy or Columbus, OH once they start a family.

My SIL/BIL just had to move from years of living in Chicago proper to the burbs because they started a family, where they get the benefit of a hour commute and $16k/yr in property taxes on a $600k house. They are looking for better places to go, and have been looking at St Louis and Indy as options.

Salesforce didn't just put their HQ2 in Indy by pure random choice.
 
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Quix0te said:
Scroll up to the OP. I already told you that although it appears to be Bezos who's up in arms.
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Huh? Bezos simply put construction on hold to see if the nutjobs in Seattle actually went down a path of stupidity. If you look at the reactions, he clearly isn't the one up in arms.
 
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Marvin the Martian said:
One still has to attract people to Indy and if the perception is a race in May then nothing, it is harder to do. I'm not disagreeing with most of your assessment, I like Indy. I am just not sure the country knows more about it than the 500. Well, for a while they knew RFRA but I assume that has passed.

The one area I will disagree a little, when I am in Indy I am almost always downtown (going tomorrow night to see the ISO for example). Indy has as much a homeless problem as anywhere. I saw Whose Live Anyway at the Murat last fall. The comedians on stage asked for words to describe Indianapolis. The first audience member (I assume a Hoosier) said opioids and the second said homeless. It seems every corner has someone sitting on the ground saying something like "God bless you" as I walk by. I guess they aren't allowed to ask for donations directly?
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LOL....That's quite an exaggeration, and isn't close to accurate.

https://www.cheatsheet.com/culture/cities-with-the-most-homeless-people.html/?a=viewall

To give you a comparsion. Last city wide homeless count in Indy came in at 1,682.

I bet the per capita rate is higher in Bloomington.
 
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twenty02 said:
My SIL/BIL just had to move from years of living in Chicago proper to the burbs because they started a family, where they get the benefit of a hour commute and $16k/yr in property taxes on a $600k house. They are looking for better places to go, and have been looking at St Louis and Indy as options.
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Are they still working downtown? What suburb?
 
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